WLM and Eternal-September

[Char Jackson]

Your analogy was fine (well, kind of OK!). What I had in mind was
that, as a pushover, you might actually take advice, where "someone
else" (whoever that might be) would resist it to the bitter end.

So we really should criticize my clarity of expression.

It's ok, I understood what you were saying but wanted to deflect away
from the stubbornites* a bit, so I went in a slightly different
direction. They already get too much attention and suck up too much
energy, if you ask me.

But yeah, you're right, I hope, that I would take good advice rather
than digging in my heels.

*Made up word that refers to "someone else (whoever that might be)."

 

[Andy Burns]

If this were an automotive group and you asked for help in adjusting the
carb on your Chevy and I told you to buy a Toyota instead, would that be
considered helpful?

If Toyota and General Motors both gave away cars for free, then yes, it
might.

 

[Dave-UK]

I'm aware of that, but when I've used the broken (apparently by intention)
version of WLM I haven't found it too burdensome to type a few sideways
chevrons to quote the person I'm replying to.


I think good netiquette includes not contributing to threads asking for help
unless I can actually offer help, but again, that's just me.

If you want to stick with WLM you can download the 2009 version.
This will fix the non-quoting problem.
WLM2009 ver 14
http://g.live.com/1rewlive3/en/wlsetup-all.exe
(You can select what you want to install.)

 

[...winston]

WLM
Right click on the E-S account (left hand folder pane), select Properties
- General Tab (uncheck 'Include this account...')
- Server Tab (check 'This server requires me to log on'), enter username/pw
and check 'Remember password'
- Advanced Tab (Port 563, check 'This server requires a secure connection')

--
....winston
msft mvp mail


"DGDevin" wrote in message
I signed up with eternal-september.org for Usenet and I'm having trouble
using WLM with E-S. [Pause to let those whose only recommendation is to use
a different news reader get it out of their systems.] I appear to have
everything configured properly but the only groups I can read (and post to)
are the E-S help groups, which apparently means WLM is not providing the E-S
server with my ID and password. I've checked and double-checked everything,
reloaded the list of groups, unsubscribed and resubscribed to groups without
success. One odd exception is I was able to subscribe to a new group that
worked properly, weird. If this situation rings any bells with anyone who
solved the same problem I'd like to hear about it.

As an experiment I fired up XP Mode and tried Outlook Express (which I'm
using now) and it works fine with E-S with the exception that I have to
enter my password every time, for some reason OE won't remember it.

Helpful advice appreciated.

 

[SC Tom]

I signed up with eternal-september.org for Usenet and I'm having trouble
using WLM with E-S.
Excellent!

[Pause to let those whose only recommendation is to use
a different news reader get it out of their systems.]

If you don't want to be hated in every newsgroup you post to, you
will do exactly that.

DGDevin, I'll say almost the same thing Stan just did, but let explain
why:

First, I don't really hate someone who uses Windows Live Mail. The
problem with Windows Live Mail is that it quotes previous messages in
the thread improperly, not putting the > marks for quoted material
where they belong (as you can see in Stan's message and in mine,
above).

That means that messages sent with Windows Live Mail are very hard to
read; what the various people in the thread said gets all mixed
together and you don't know who said what. It's Windows Live Mail I
hate, not people who use it. The result is normally that if someone
posts to a newsgroup using Windows Live Mail, his messages quickly
become so hard to read that I give up and just killfile him.

And I'm not the only one; killfiling Windows Live Mail users in
newsgroups is very common. So the result is that many of the people
who might be able to help you with your problems will never see your
messages. If that's important to you, I strongly recommend that you
immediately dump Windows Live Mail, and instead use almost any other
newsreader--whichever you prefer.

And if anyone wants to see the effects of using WLM 15 (and top-posting with it to boot), look at ...winston's post at
the end of this thread (whose answer is nearly a quote of my earlier reply ).

I would agree with Dave-UK that if someone is going to use WLM (like I do on my Win7 notebook), stick with 2009 (v.14)
and not 2011 (v.15). The earlier version isn't as broken as the newer. It doesn't handle signatures correctly (easy
enough to do manually), but it seems to do OK with quoting.

 

[Leala]

You're such a pushover compared to DGDevin...

Gotta give him credit for sticking to his guns

....and he's also on the path of the bozo bin.

 

[Ed Cryer]

Where would I find that? I've been through e-mail
accounts>properties>server umpteen times and never seen a checkbox with that
label. I have of course checked the box that says server requires me to log
on, and the one that says remember password.


It seems to work fine other than not holding the password. I ran into this
some years back but I can't remember what the fix was (or even if I fixed it
or it just self-corrected). My guess for both these issues is there is
something similar to the multiple locations in which one needs to tell W7
that a certain program is the default mail program for the purpose of
forwarding links--setting that in just one location being too simple for the
folks as Microsoft.

I stay away from WLM. It's nothing but trouble with NGs. Others use it
though.

I strongly suggest that you post your query in
eternal-september.support. The chap who runs it has a heart of gold and
an extremely responsible attitude. And that encourages everyone else to
follow suit.
You'll get answers about both WLM and OE in there.

Ed

 

[Ken Blake]

I'm aware of that, but when I've used the broken (apparently by intention)
version of WLM I haven't found it too burdensome to type a few sideways
chevrons to quote the person I'm replying to.

If you type the "greater than" characters (they aren't chevrons, by
the way) yourself, all my objections to the use of Windows Live Mail
go away, and I won't killfile you. I'm not really against Windows Live
Mail; I'm against the absence of the >s.

To me, manually inserting the >s instead of using a program that does
it for you is just extra work for nothing, but if it doesn't bother
you, it's fine with me.

 

[KCB]

I signed up with eternal-september.org for Usenet and I'm having trouble
using WLM with E-S. [Pause to let those whose only recommendation is to
use a different news reader get it out of their systems.] I appear to
have everything configured properly but the only groups I can read (and
post to) are the E-S help groups, which apparently means WLM is not
providing the E-S server with my ID and password. I've checked and
double-checked everything, reloaded the list of groups, unsubscribed and
resubscribed to groups without success. One odd exception is I was able
to subscribe to a new group that worked properly, weird. If this
situation rings any bells with anyone who solved the same problem I'd like
to hear about it.

As an experiment I fired up XP Mode and tried Outlook Express (which I'm
using now) and it works fine with E-S with the exception that I have to
enter my password every time, for some reason OE won't remember it.

Helpful advice appreciated.

If your OE settings are working, you can just export them to an *.iaf file,
then import the file into WLM. You'll probably need to reset the group
listing to see them all. As far as the password not saving, that is a
checkbox setting in either program. The secure port setting is not
necessary, as I've been using port 119 without secure connection since
joining E-S. I've used OE, WLM 14, WLM 15, Gravity, XanaNews, then back to
WLM 14. I still have them all installed except WLM 15; I'm not a ribbon
fan, and can't fathom the lack of quoting replies.

If you want to stick with WLM, I suggest using the older version. Much help
is available at the microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop group, and at
the following blog: http://liveunplugged.wordpress.com/ The author's name
is Winston, and you'll see him frequently in the other group I mentioned,
and occasionally here.

 

[XS11E]

If this were an automotive group and you asked for help in
adjusting the carb on your Chevy and I told you to buy a Toyota
instead, would that be considered helpful?

More accurate comparison, if you were trying to adjust the carb on your
Chevy with a chisel, I'd tell you to get a screw driver, that would be
considered helpful.

You're using a broken tool, non-broken tools are available for free,
get one or, if you insist on using a broken tool, at least go back a
few versions of WLM to one that's not so horribly broken.

 

[Ed Cryer]

I stay away from WLM. It's nothing but trouble with NGs. Others use it
though.

I strongly suggest that you post your query in
eternal-september.support. The chap who runs it has a heart of gold and
an extremely responsible attitude. And that encourages everyone else to
follow suit.
You'll get answers about both WLM and OE in there.

Ed

Just out of interest I've done the following.
I have OE running under XP inside VMware on this Win7 system. I added
the E-S account with my user name & password, ticked the "server
requires me to log on" box, subscribed to a NG, closed OE, went back in
and connected with no request for a password.

Ed

 

[Stan Brown]

I think good netiquette includes not contributing to threads asking
for help unless I can actually offer help, but again, that's just
me.

Hon, when you're going in the wrong direction, helping you go there
faster is *not* helping you. Helping you is telling you that you're
going in the wrong direction.

 

[Stan Brown]

If this were an automotive group and you asked for help in
adjusting the carb on your Chevy and I told you to buy a Toyota
instead, would that be considered helpful?

That's a false analogy. People can have different opinions about
which is the better car, but they both do provide transportation.

A better analogy is if you asked for help adjusting the carb on a
Chevy with fused pistons(*), and we pointed out that until you
replace the engine adjusting the carburetor is not going to do you
any good.

(*) If that makes no sense, pick any mode of catastrophic engine
failure.

 

[Stan Brown]

That means that messages sent with Windows Live Mail are very hard to
read; what the various people in the thread said gets all mixed
together and you don't know who said what. It's Windows Live Mail I
hate, not people who use it.

I don't hate the people who use it because they don't know any
better. I do hate (in the sense of "killfile") the people who
persist in using it after the problems are explained to them.

 

[Char Jackson]

Hon, when you're going in the wrong direction, helping you go there
faster is *not* helping you. Helping you is telling you that you're
going in the wrong direction.

That was very well said. Good job.

 

[Ken Blake]

I don't hate the people who use it because they don't know any
better. I do hate (in the sense of "killfile") the people who
persist in using it after the problems are explained to them.

Yes, that's essentially the same point I was making. But I killfile
them not because of any sort of hatred, but simply because their
messages are so terribly hard to make sense of.

 

[Stan Brown]

Yes, that's essentially the same point I was making. But I killfile
them not because of any sort of hatred, but simply because their
messages are so terribly hard to make sense of.

I think we're in violent agreement.

 

[...winston]

"DGDevin" <[email protected]> wrote:

"XS11E" wrote in message You're using a broken tool, non-broken tools are available for free,
get one or, if you insist on using a broken tool, at least go back a
few versions of WLM to one that's not so horribly broken.

You really can't go back a few versions.
2008 - parts of WLE are no longer functional
2009 - QFE3 (May 2010) was a mandatory upgrade (loss of functionality in
other WLE apps in earlier builds)
2011 - All three released versions (and the prior 6 betas private/public
exhibit the no "< quote> problem")still function (history would dictate that
QFE2 or later will eventually become mandatory ) though earlier versions
Gold/QFE1 may be subject to upgrade deployment requests)

WLE updates is deployed in a variety of methods
- Microsoft Update (Optional update)
- Windows Live applications (it has a built in update engine independent of
Windows; TaskBar/Notification area prompts - turned on circa August 2011)
- CVR (Current Version Request - unlike the above two, periodic request when
opening a WLE application to upgrade if version in use is not current when a
proceeding mandatory upgrade was released)

- the latter two 'upgrade' only existing installed applications. Clicking on
prompt for the latter two, in effect, says 'upgrade'

In all cases, its important to read the prompts on the screen presented
and/or ensure that WU/MU is not set to install updates automatically and
understand that no mixing of versions is possible (you update one, all
installed update too).

I.e. Optional in the eyes of MSFT/Live means 'you as user' understand how to
read and configure the system to avoid all possible forms of Live upgrade
requests....anything less is acceptance to upgrade (i.e. Opt-In)

 

[...winston]

"Stan Brown" wrote in message

I think we're in violent agreement.

Good points and a topic that will be peanut gallery discussion for quite
some time. Imo, doubtful that WLM will ever comply since Hotmail and
Messenger drive the priorities.

As I noted in a prior post, some of us who moderate WLM nntp groups
elsewhere in addition to other nntp groups supporting html find it absurd to
accommodate one single group (this one) at the expense of another. Nntp
groups are mechanisms to obtain and share information but all of them
Usenet, Private, supporting Html etc...in the long run they're still
discretionary entertainment <g>

....winston
msft mvp mail

 

[Ken Blake]

I think we're in violent agreement.

LOL! Yes.