WLM & WireLESS Keyboard


M

Monica

I have a Dell XPS 8300 and a Logitech MK710 wireless keyboard/mouse combo.
The keyboard was an option when configuring my computer on Dell's website.
I've had it for a year and from the beginning, I've had problems in WLM with
scrolling panes being jumpy or jittery, text showing up on the screen is not
synchronized (a delay in seeing what I'm typing) and if I put my cursor on
the WLM icon in the taskbar to choose which window in WLM I want to access,
many times one of the preview screens will be black. After I open it, it
will correct it's self.
First keyboard needed replaced under warranty. Replacing the keyboard (with
another MK710), problem remained. At this time I didn't have a clue what the
problem could be. I did try a wired mouse but that made no difference.
Today, I'm using a wired Dell keyboard. SO FAR, I've had NO problems!
Everything is working as it should.
After using this wired keyboard for 10+ hours, I'm convinced the problem is
the keyboard.
Previous calls to Dell ts were no help. They said it was software and that
support was only for 3 months.
How can this be and what can I do about it?

WLM v2011 (Build 15.4.3555.0308). Keyboard driver is up to date.
Thanks,
Monica
 
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P

Paul

Monica said:
I have a Dell XPS 8300 and a Logitech MK710 wireless keyboard/mouse
combo. The keyboard was an option when configuring my computer on Dell's
website. I've had it for a year and from the beginning, I've had
problems in WLM with scrolling panes being jumpy or jittery, text
showing up on the screen is not synchronized (a delay in seeing what I'm
typing) and if I put my cursor on the WLM icon in the taskbar to choose
which window in WLM I want to access, many times one of the preview
screens will be black. After I open it, it will correct it's self.
First keyboard needed replaced under warranty. Replacing the keyboard
(with another MK710), problem remained. At this time I didn't have a
clue what the problem could be. I did try a wired mouse but that made no
difference. Today, I'm using a wired Dell keyboard. SO FAR, I've had NO
problems! Everything is working as it should.
After using this wired keyboard for 10+ hours, I'm convinced the problem
is the keyboard.
Previous calls to Dell ts were no help. They said it was software and
that support was only for 3 months.
How can this be and what can I do about it?

WLM v2011 (Build 15.4.3555.0308). Keyboard driver is up to date.
Thanks,
Monica
Logitech has various receiver technologies for their HID devices.

The Unifying receiver, is a short object you plug into the computer
USB port. This article, implies it is actually a Bluetooth device.
But perhaps, without a full Bluetooth stack. It operates at 2.4GHz.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logitech_Unifying_receiver

I'm not going to say for certain this is your problem, but you
should do a "survey" of your environment, to see whether there
are any other 2.4GHz devices around. Other Bluetooth devices
for example. Bluetooth will tolerate a "piconet", of around
seven devices, as far as I can remember. Bluetooth uses spread spectrum,
which should make it robust to single frequency interference.
Bluetooth has various techniques for "pairing" computers to
devices. In the case of the Unifying receiver, the pairing is
in automatic mode, so you probably don't have to press a button
or anything, to get the keyboard and mouse to pair with the mated Unifying
receiver.

My theory is, there is a lot of "traffic" coming from the USB
Unifying receiver. And that "traffic" causes high CPU usage,
and slows things down. Maybe that's why there is a lack of
synchronization. It could be, that the communications from the
wireless keyboard are getting corrupted, there's a "loop" in some
software trying to make sense of what is coming across, that
sort of thing.

Other things operating at 2.4GHz, include Wifi, cordless phones,
or maybe the microwave oven. One user, for example, used to have
the Wifi network drop, every time their 2.4GHz cordless base
station, would send the "ring" indication to the cordless phone.

You could try moving the computer to an area away from
other electronic devices. For example, I'd head down to my
furnace room, if I needed an area lower in RF signals, and
repeat my keyboard/mouse performance tests down there.

If operating the wireless devices in an environment
relatively clean of 2.4GHz signals yields no improvement,
well, your experimental results say the keyboard is bad.
Seeing as the mouse works perfectly fine, using the
same receiver. It's hard to believe the mouse would
interfere with the keyboard, unless the RF power
level of the two devices was radically different
(mouse blasting crap out of Unifying receiver front end).
And that isn't likely to happen.

Paul
 
W

...winston

Symptoms (jumpy screen, delay in seeing text, black preview screens) might imply a video card or driver problem.

--
....winston
msft mvp mail


"Monica" wrote in message
I have a Dell XPS 8300 and a Logitech MK710 wireless keyboard/mouse combo.
The keyboard was an option when configuring my computer on Dell's website.
I've had it for a year and from the beginning, I've had problems in WLM with
scrolling panes being jumpy or jittery, text showing up on the screen is not
synchronized (a delay in seeing what I'm typing) and if I put my cursor on
the WLM icon in the taskbar to choose which window in WLM I want to access,
many times one of the preview screens will be black. After I open it, it
will correct it's self.
First keyboard needed replaced under warranty. Replacing the keyboard (with
another MK710), problem remained. At this time I didn't have a clue what the
problem could be. I did try a wired mouse but that made no difference.
Today, I'm using a wired Dell keyboard. SO FAR, I've had NO problems!
Everything is working as it should.
After using this wired keyboard for 10+ hours, I'm convinced the problem is
the keyboard.
Previous calls to Dell ts were no help. They said it was software and that
support was only for 3 months.
How can this be and what can I do about it?

WLM v2011 (Build 15.4.3555.0308). Keyboard driver is up to date.
Thanks,
Monica
 
P

Paul

....winston said:
Symptoms (jumpy screen, delay in seeing text, black preview screens)
might imply a video card or driver problem.
Except the wired keyboard works OK. And the wireless one, does not.

Paul
 
A

Andy Burns

Paul said:
Logitech has various receiver technologies for their HID devices.
The Unifying receiver, is a short object you plug into the computer
USB port. This article, implies it is actually a Bluetooth device.
Does it? Where?
 
P

Paul

Andy said:
Does it? Where?
In the worst way possible.

"See also

* Bluetooth"

That's about aa crappy a way of suggesting it as you can get.
You'll notice that article isn't exactly "encyclopedia" material.
It's not even "blog" quality. It's like something you'd find
written on a bathroom wall.

I've seen a thread somewhere, that suggested it is 802.11g, but
I don't believe that. The Unifying Receiver supports up to
six HID devices at the same time, which is one shy of Bluetooth
piconet size. Again, not very convincing. Would 802.11g have
a six device limit ?

I'm working with thin circumstantial evidence at the moment.
Haven't found an article on logitech.com that spells it out.
Maybe I have to dig through FCC filings or something ?

Paul
 
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B

BillW50

Except the wired keyboard works OK. And the wireless one, does not.

Paul
Every version of Thunderbird I have ever used, will freeze for a few
seconds from time to time. I can type out a dozen words sometimes before
they will suddenly appear. Yet typing in another application no problems
whatsoever. So it isn't always the video or keyboard problem. Sometimes
it is just poor sloppy programming. In this case, sloppy Mozilla
programmers.
 
B

Bob Henson

Every version of Thunderbird I have ever used, will freeze for a few
seconds from time to time. I can type out a dozen words sometimes before
they will suddenly appear. Yet typing in another application no problems
whatsoever. So it isn't always the video or keyboard problem. Sometimes
it is just poor sloppy programming. In this case, sloppy Mozilla
programmers.

Not true. I've used Thunderbird since it's inception and it has never
happened to me apart from the short time that I used a wireless
keyboard. Most of them are incapable of keeping up with a quick typist
and useless for games. Mine used to miss out characters, pause and jump
around at will, in Thunderbird and in Outlook 2007 and anything else
with a text box. Whether the problem was inherent in all wireless
keyboards, or there was something here interfering with the one I had
(mobile phone, digital land-line phone, WiFi router) I don't know - I
threw it away without trying to find out. Whatever it was, it wasn't
Thunderbird.

--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, UK


Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
 
J

John Williamson

Bob said:
Not true. I've used Thunderbird since it's inception and it has never
happened to me apart from the short time that I used a wireless
keyboard. Most of them are incapable of keeping up with a quick typist
and useless for games. Mine used to miss out characters, pause and jump
around at will, in Thunderbird and in Outlook 2007 and anything else
with a text box. Whether the problem was inherent in all wireless
keyboards, or there was something here interfering with the one I had
(mobile phone, digital land-line phone, WiFi router) I don't know - I
threw it away without trying to find out. Whatever it was, it wasn't
Thunderbird.
It happens to me using Thunderbird 2 and any supported version of
Windows and has done for quite some time. I even updated to the latest
version of Thunderbird a while ago, and it still does it.

It also happens occasionally using Libre Office and Open Office. It
doesn't happen using MS Office. It only happens on slow computers, so
I'm blaming it on TB, LO and OO being greedy for resources. It's worse
on Windows 7 and Vista than it was on XP, so it might just be a marginal
thing.
 
B

BillW50

Not true. I've used Thunderbird since it's inception and it has never
happened to me apart from the short time that I used a wireless
keyboard. Most of them are incapable of keeping up with a quick typist
and useless for games. Mine used to miss out characters, pause and jump
around at will, in Thunderbird and in Outlook 2007 and anything else
with a text box. Whether the problem was inherent in all wireless
keyboards, or there was something here interfering with the one I had
(mobile phone, digital land-line phone, WiFi router) I don't know - I
threw it away without trying to find out. Whatever it was, it wasn't
Thunderbird.
I've been using Thunderbird since v1.5. And while I do use a wireless
keyboard most of the time, it also does it here on 20+ laptops using the
built in keyboards. I don't have any problems with wireless keyboards at
all. Mine work just as well as wired ones.

Some people have commented that Thunderbird behaves this way because of
the single threaded nature of Thunderbird. That is the best answer I
have ever found. Why Mozilla never wants to move to the 21st century,
I'll never know.
 
B

BillW50

It happens to me using Thunderbird 2 and any supported version of
Windows and has done for quite some time. I even updated to the
latest version of Thunderbird a while ago, and it still does it.

It also happens occasionally using Libre Office and Open Office. It
doesn't happen using MS Office. It only happens on slow computers, so
I'm blaming it on TB, LO and OO being greedy for resources. It's
worse on Windows 7 and Vista than it was on XP, so it might just be a
marginal thing.
Yes I too have seen it with Libre Office and Open Office. Doesn't happen
with Office, Notepad, WordPad, Works, or anything else. It just happened
right now typing that last sentence. CPU usage was at 12%. I think
software like Libre Office, Open Office, and Thunderbird don't make much
use of multithreading.
 
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J

John Williamson

BillW50 said:
Yes I too have seen it with Libre Office and Open Office. Doesn't happen
with Office, Notepad, WordPad, Works, or anything else. It just happened
right now typing that last sentence. CPU usage was at 12%. I think
software like Libre Office, Open Office, and Thunderbird don't make much
use of multithreading.
It's also possible that their keyboard scanning routine is broken, or
gets pre-empted by something else, as I've noticed that when they wake
up again, all that they can recover is what's in the hardware buffer.
I've had to retype anything up to a couple of lines before now.
 
J

John Williamson

BillW50 said:
I've been using Thunderbird since v1.5. And while I do use a wireless
keyboard most of the time, it also does it here on 20+ laptops using the
built in keyboards. I don't have any problems with wireless keyboards at
all. Mine work just as well as wired ones.

Some people have commented that Thunderbird behaves this way because of
the single threaded nature of Thunderbird. That is the best answer I
have ever found. Why Mozilla never wants to move to the 21st century,
I'll never know.
Because their stuff is programmed for free by people in their lunch
break, by and large?

Firefox used to be better than Internet Explorer and Thunderbird used to
be better than the MS offering, but that's slowly changing.
 
S

Stan Brown

I have a Dell XPS 8300 and a Logitech MK710 wireless keyboard/mouse combo.
The keyboard was an option when configuring my computer on Dell's website.
I've had it for a year and from the beginning, I've had problems in WLM
You don't have "problems with" Windows Live Mail -- it *is* a
problem. Junk it and get a decent mail program, and *especially*
don't use it for Usenet because it is irretrievably broken.
 
M

Monica

Thanks for the detailed suggestions :)
There is nothing in the office other than the computer it's self
that has Bluetooth and the cordless phone is DECT 6.0. I do have a
bluetooth laptop and smartphone but the laptop is at the other end
of the house and just got the phone two months ago.
Someone else suggested moving the receiver to a different USB port.
It's currently in one of the monitor's usb ports. Hard to believe two
keyboards could be bad unless there is a problem with that particular model.


"Paul" wrote in message
 
M

Monica

That was my first thought. Called Dell. They wouldn't replace the video
card.
I've been a Dell customer for at least 12 years. Getting parts replaced
these days is
like pulling teeth! :eek:

"...winston" wrote in message
Symptoms (jumpy screen, delay in seeing text, black preview screens) might
imply a video card or driver problem.
 
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C

Char Jackson

There is nothing in the office other than the computer it's self
that has Bluetooth and the cordless phone is DECT 6.0. I do have a
bluetooth laptop and smartphone but the laptop is at the other end
of the house and just got the phone two months ago.
Someone else suggested moving the receiver to a different USB port.
It's currently in one of the monitor's usb ports. Hard to believe two
keyboards could be bad unless there is a problem with that particular model.
The very first thing I would do is move it to a USB port on the
computer. Not a port on the monitor, not a port on a USB hub, but a
port that's directly connected to the computer. Use an extension
cable, if necessary, if the sensor needs to be brought out from behind
the computer.
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

The very first thing I would do is move it to a USB port on the
computer. Not a port on the monitor, not a port on a USB hub, but a
port that's directly connected to the computer.
+1 absolutely!!
Use an extension cable, if necessary, if the sensor needs to be
brought out from behind the computer.
+1

I have a Logitech mouse & keyboard using the unifying receiver, and
after some changes to the USB setup on my computer, I had to hang the
receiver on an extension cable to get rid of major hesitations on both
mouse and keyboard.

I tried other changes; only using that cable to move the receiver into a
more line-of-sight position helped.
 
I

Irwell

+1 absolutely!!


+1

I have a Logitech mouse & keyboard using the unifying receiver, and
after some changes to the USB setup on my computer, I had to hang the
receiver on an extension cable to get rid of major hesitations on both
mouse and keyboard.

I tried other changes; only using that cable to move the receiver into a
more line-of-sight position helped.
Stating the obvious are the batteries in good shape?
 
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G

Gene E. Bloch

Stating the obvious are the batteries in good shape?
:)

Presumably you realize that changing the position of the receiver while
using bad batteries would be unlikely to create much improvement.

But in reality, your question is a good question, even though I used it
as an excuse for a slightly sardonic reply ;-)
 

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