WLM and Eternal-September

[DGDevin]

I signed up with eternal-september.org for Usenet and I'm having trouble
using WLM with E-S. [Pause to let those whose only recommendation is to use
a different news reader get it out of their systems.] I appear to have
everything configured properly but the only groups I can read (and post to)
are the E-S help groups, which apparently means WLM is not providing the E-S
server with my ID and password. I've checked and double-checked everything,
reloaded the list of groups, unsubscribed and resubscribed to groups without
success. One odd exception is I was able to subscribe to a new group that
worked properly, weird. If this situation rings any bells with anyone who
solved the same problem I'd like to hear about it.

As an experiment I fired up XP Mode and tried Outlook Express (which I'm
using now) and it works fine with E-S with the exception that I have to
enter my password every time, for some reason OE won't remember it.

Helpful advice appreciated.

 

[Ed Cryer]

I signed up with eternal-september.org for Usenet and I'm having trouble
using WLM with E-S. [Pause to let those whose only recommendation is to use
a different news reader get it out of their systems.] I appear to have
everything configured properly but the only groups I can read (and post to)
are the E-S help groups, which apparently means WLM is not providing the E-S
server with my ID and password. I've checked and double-checked everything,
reloaded the list of groups, unsubscribed and resubscribed to groups without
success. One odd exception is I was able to subscribe to a new group that
worked properly, weird. If this situation rings any bells with anyone who
solved the same problem I'd like to hear about it.

As an experiment I fired up XP Mode and tried Outlook Express (which I'm
using now) and it works fine with E-S with the exception that I have to
enter my password every time, for some reason OE won't remember it.

Helpful advice appreciated.

It's a very well known problem with Eternal-September users.
You have to tick "request authentication with this server" in the
settings, and then reset the group list. It will then ask for user and
password once.

Does OE get all the groups? If so I can't fathom why it won't hold your
password.

Ed

 

[BillW50]

In

I signed up with eternal-september.org for Usenet and I'm having
trouble using WLM with E-S. [Pause to let those whose only
recommendation is to use a different news reader get it out of their
systems.] I appear to have everything configured properly but the
only groups I can read (and post to) are the E-S help groups, which
apparently means WLM is not providing the E-S server with my ID and
password. I've checked and double-checked everything, reloaded the
list of groups, unsubscribed and resubscribed to groups without
success. One odd exception is I was able to subscribe to a new group
that worked properly, weird. If this situation rings any bells with
anyone who solved the same problem I'd like to hear about it.
As an experiment I fired up XP Mode and tried Outlook Express (which
I'm using now) and it works fine with E-S with the exception that I
have to enter my password every time, for some reason OE won't
remember it.
Helpful advice appreciated.

Well everything you stated makes perfect sense to me. I used to use WLM,
but it just seems to be a broken OE to me. Either OE or Thunderbird is
what works (although I really dislike TB for newsgroups). And I never
had any desire for XP mode, as the real XP works far better. XP Mode is
just a tradeoff.

And I have used eternal-september.org for years and before the name
change. But there are certain times that it will reject a good username
and password. Nothing to worry about, as it could take a few hours to
clear up. Another thing is eternal-september.org desn't like too many
threads hitting it from one account. If it does, it too will lock you
out for a few hours or so.

 

[Paul]

I signed up with eternal-september.org for Usenet and I'm having trouble
using WLM with E-S. [Pause to let those whose only recommendation is to use
a different news reader get it out of their systems.] I appear to have
everything configured properly but the only groups I can read (and post to)
are the E-S help groups, which apparently means WLM is not providing the E-S
server with my ID and password. I've checked and double-checked everything,
reloaded the list of groups, unsubscribed and resubscribed to groups without
success. One odd exception is I was able to subscribe to a new group that
worked properly, weird. If this situation rings any bells with anyone who
solved the same problem I'd like to hear about it.

As an experiment I fired up XP Mode and tried Outlook Express (which I'm
using now) and it works fine with E-S with the exception that I have to
enter my password every time, for some reason OE won't remember it.

Helpful advice appreciated.

As Ed says, authentication is an optional step. And on servers
that support both unauthenciated and authenticated operation,
it can make it difficult for a user to determine what is going on.

E-S has maybe a dozen groups listed when you connect unauthenticated.
That allows a new user, to "dial into" E-S and leave a message
they're not getting the full group list. Using the E-S support
group in that situation, you can ask for help.

If you tick a box in your newsreader software, to send authentication,
then the protocol includes "user" and "pass" type commands.

If the authentication is successful, you need to refresh the group list
(download the group list again), to get the thousands of them accessible
to an authenticated user. Then you can subscribe to things like alt.window7.general.

You can watch all of this with Wireshark packet sniffer, as long as
you're connected to port 119. If you use an encrypted port, the
username and password would not be visible in plaintext in the packet
sniffer.

If you use WLM 15, that doesn't support proper quoting of messages,
and leads to all sorts of bad blood. If you use WLM 14, that may
at least keep "peace in the valley".

Paul

 

[SC Tom]

I signed up with eternal-september.org for Usenet and I'm having trouble using WLM with E-S. [Pause to let those whose
only recommendation is to use a different news reader get it out of their systems.] I appear to have everything
configured properly but the only groups I can read (and post to) are the E-S help groups, which apparently means WLM is
not providing the E-S server with my ID and password. I've checked and double-checked everything, reloaded the list of
groups, unsubscribed and resubscribed to groups without success. One odd exception is I was able to subscribe to a new
group that worked properly, weird. If this situation rings any bells with anyone who solved the same problem I'd like
to hear about it.

As an experiment I fired up XP Mode and tried Outlook Express (which I'm using now) and it works fine with E-S with
the exception that I have to enter my password every time, for some reason OE won't remember it.

Helpful advice appreciated.

Just to add to what the others have already posted, check your settings. Under the Server tab, "This server requires me
to log on" and "Remember password" should both be checked (and, of course, the Account name and Password should be
filled in). Under the Advanced tab, the port number should be 563 and the Secure connection box should be checked.
That's the way mine is on both my WLM and OE machines.

If any of these have to be changed, you'll have to retrieve the group listing again to see them all.

 

[Stan Brown]

I signed up with eternal-september.org for Usenet and I'm having trouble
using WLM with E-S.
Excellent!

[Pause to let those whose only recommendation is to use
a different news reader get it out of their systems.]

If you don't want to be hated in every newsgroup you post to, you
will do exactly that.

 

[dweebken]

I signed up with eternal-september.org for Usenet and I'm having
trouble using WLM with E-S. [Pause to let those whose only
recommendation is to use a different news reader get it out of their
systems.] I appear to have everything configured properly but the only
groups I can read (and post to) are the E-S help groups, which
apparently means WLM is not providing the E-S server with my ID and
password. I've checked and double-checked everything, reloaded the
list of groups, unsubscribed and resubscribed to groups without
success. One odd exception is I was able to subscribe to a new group
that worked properly, weird. If this situation rings any bells with
anyone who solved the same problem I'd like to hear about it.

As an experiment I fired up XP Mode and tried Outlook Express (which
I'm using now) and it works fine with E-S with the exception that I
have to enter my password every time, for some reason OE won't
remember it.

Helpful advice appreciated.

As Ed says, authentication is an optional step. And on servers
that support both unauthenciated and authenticated operation,
it can make it difficult for a user to determine what is going on.

E-S has maybe a dozen groups listed when you connect unauthenticated.
That allows a new user, to "dial into" E-S and leave a message
they're not getting the full group list. Using the E-S support
group in that situation, you can ask for help.

If you tick a box in your newsreader software, to send authentication,
then the protocol includes "user" and "pass" type commands.

If the authentication is successful, you need to refresh the group list
(download the group list again), to get the thousands of them accessible
to an authenticated user. Then you can subscribe to things like
alt.window7.general.

You can watch all of this with Wireshark packet sniffer, as long as
you're connected to port 119. If you use an encrypted port, the
username and password would not be visible in plaintext in the packet
sniffer.

If you use WLM 15, that doesn't support proper quoting of messages,
and leads to all sorts of bad blood. If you use WLM 14, that may
at least keep "peace in the valley".

Paul

I'm using Thunderbird and everything works ok using the encrypted
connection server (on port 563) and ticking the send authentication box.
Also note I had to force the reader to accept the invalid SSL security
certificate, which it won't do by itself, otherwise the secure server
won't talk tot he client. Dunno if this might be part of your problem
with WLM, but it can't hurt to be aware of it.

 

[DGDevin]

Excellent!

I knew there would be at least one.

[Pause to let those whose only recommendation is to use
a different news reader get it out of their systems.]

If you don't want to be hated in every newsgroup you post to, you
will do exactly that.

I try not to waste hatred on something as petty as the software a person
uses, but that's just me.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

I knew there would be at least one.

[Pause to let those whose only recommendation is to use
a different news reader get it out of their systems.]

If you don't want to be hated in every newsgroup you post to, you
will do exactly that.

I try not to waste hatred on something as petty as the software a person
uses, but that's just me.

Make it two

One problem with the latest edition of WLM is simply that the bad
(read: non-existent) quoting style makes figuring out who said what in
a reply difficult to impossible.

If that's what you want, go for it.

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Excellent!

I knew there would be at least one.

[Pause to let those whose only recommendation is to use
a different news reader get it out of their systems.]

If you don't want to be hated in every newsgroup you post to, you
will do exactly that.

I try not to waste hatred on something as petty as the software a
person uses, but that's just me.

The problem is that the software in question is broken in a way that
makes it difficult, if not impossible, to tell who said what when
reading replies posted by that newsreader. Even more so when two
people using that newsreader are replying in the same thread. So,
often regulars will advise the poster that the problem exists and
recommend changing to a different newsreader. Those who do not follow
that advise are often relegated to the killfiles of many regulars to
the group since it just isn't worth the time trying to parse the
replies.

So ultimately it is your choice of course, but good netiquette
suggests you heed the advise.

--
Zaphod

Pan-Galactic Gargle Blaster: A cocktail based on Janx Spirit.
The effect of one is like having your brain smashed out
by a slice of lemon wrapped round a large gold brick.

 

[Ken Blake]

I signed up with eternal-september.org for Usenet and I'm having trouble
using WLM with E-S.
Excellent!

[Pause to let those whose only recommendation is to use
a different news reader get it out of their systems.]

If you don't want to be hated in every newsgroup you post to, you
will do exactly that.

DGDevin, I'll say almost the same thing Stan just did, but let explain
why:

First, I don't really hate someone who uses Windows Live Mail. The
problem with Windows Live Mail is that it quotes previous messages in
the thread improperly, not putting the > marks for quoted material
where they belong (as you can see in Stan's message and in mine,
above).

That means that messages sent with Windows Live Mail are very hard to
read; what the various people in the thread said gets all mixed
together and you don't know who said what. It's Windows Live Mail I
hate, not people who use it. The result is normally that if someone
posts to a newsgroup using Windows Live Mail, his messages quickly
become so hard to read that I give up and just killfile him.

And I'm not the only one; killfiling Windows Live Mail users in
newsgroups is very common. So the result is that many of the people
who might be able to help you with your problems will never see your
messages. If that's important to you, I strongly recommend that you
immediately dump Windows Live Mail, and instead use almost any other
newsreader--whichever you prefer.

 

[DGDevin]

The problem is that the software in question is broken in a way that makes
it difficult, if not impossible, to tell who said what when reading
replies posted by that newsreader.

I'm aware of that, but when I've used the broken (apparently by intention)
version of WLM I haven't found it too burdensome to type a few sideways
chevrons to quote the person I'm replying to.

So ultimately it is your choice of course, but good netiquette
suggests you heed the advise.

I think good netiquette includes not contributing to threads asking for help
unless I can actually offer help, but again, that's just me.

 

[DGDevin]

It's a very well known problem with Eternal-September users.
You have to tick "request authentication with this server" in the
settings, and then reset the group list. It will then ask for user and
password once.

Where would I find that? I've been through e-mail
accounts>properties>server umpteen times and never seen a checkbox with that
label. I have of course checked the box that says server requires me to log
on, and the one that says remember password.

Does OE get all the groups? If so I can't fathom why it won't hold your
password.

It seems to work fine other than not holding the password. I ran into this
some years back but I can't remember what the fix was (or even if I fixed it
or it just self-corrected). My guess for both these issues is there is
something similar to the multiple locations in which one needs to tell W7
that a certain program is the default mail program for the purpose of
forwarding links--setting that in just one location being too simple for the
folks as Microsoft.

 

[DGDevin]

Under the Advanced tab, the port number should be 563 and the Secure
connection box should be checked. That's the way mine is on both my WLM
and OE machines.

OE in XP mode is using port 119 and working fine with Eternal-September. I
tried 563/secure in WLM as you suggested and that didn't work either, but
thanks for the suggestion anyway.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

I'm aware of that, but when I've used the broken (apparently by intention)
version of WLM I haven't found it too burdensome to type a few sideways
chevrons to quote the person I'm replying to.

And when you reply in a thread with several replies, occupying a
hundred lines of text, and at different levels, ahead of your reply,
then what?

I think good netiquette includes not contributing to threads asking for help
unless I can actually offer help, but again, that's just me.

You fail to understand that the people who are suggesting that you
switch newsreaders are in fact offering significant help.

 

[DGDevin]

And when you reply in a thread with several replies, occupying a hundred
lines of text, and at different levels, ahead of your reply, then what?

I quote the person I'm replying to as opposed to eleven others who commented
earlier, I'm baffled as to why people would leave a hundred lines of text
above a one-sentence comment they're replying to. I assume anyone reading
the thread is aware of the context and doesn't need the entire conversation
re-quoted in every post.

You fail to understand that the people who are suggesting that you switch
newsreaders are in fact offering significant help.

If this were an automotive group and you asked for help in adjusting the
carb on your Chevy and I told you to buy a Toyota instead, would that be
considered helpful?

 

[Char Jackson]

If this were an automotive group and you asked for help in adjusting the
carb on your Chevy and I told you to buy a Toyota instead, would that be
considered helpful?

If I announced that I intended to commute 80 miles round trip to work
every day...on roller skates...and someone suggested I use a car
instead, I'd consider that good advice. But that's just me.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

If I announced that I intended to commute 80 miles round trip to work
every day...on roller skates...and someone suggested I use a car
instead, I'd consider that good advice. But that's just me.

You're such a pushover compared to DGDevin...

Gotta give him credit for sticking to his guns

 

[Char Jackson]

You're such a pushover compared to DGDevin...

Gotta give him credit for sticking to his guns

Heh! I suck at analogies, but I didn't let that stop me.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

On Fri, 02 Dec 2011 16:53:13 -0800, Gene E. Bloch

Heh! I suck at analogies, but I didn't let that stop me.

Your analogy was fine (well, kind of OK!). What I had in mind was
that, as a pushover, you might actually take advice, where "someone
else" (whoever that might be) would resist it to the bitter end.

So we really should criticize my clarity of expression.