Wordpad annoyance

[Steve Hayes]

The only software I've encountered that won't work on 64-bit W7 is
ancient 16-bit software from the DOS and Win 3.1/95 days. Even so,
you can run them in XP Mode since it is 32-bit.

But when you buy a computer with Win 7 already installed, how do you find out
about things like that? It comes with piss-poor documentation, and you have to
stop working with a computer and spend a couple of months learning how to use
the thing.

It was easier to instal the 32-bit version and carry on working.

 

[Char Jackson]

Not the same as in XP.

There I could do it with Autoexec.bat thus:

In XP, if you had done it through the GUI, as Gene suggested, then
that same technique would have carried over to 7. Editing the
autoexec.bat file is so last century.

 

[Rob]

On Mon, 8 Aug 2011 20:22:15 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

In message<[email protected]>, Ken Blake
On Sun, 7 Aug 2011 19:57:38 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
[]
Does 7 (64 and 32 bit, come to think of it) contain drivers for the old
"dot-matrix" (i. e. impact) type printers, such as lots of EPSONs,
Stars, and so on, or have they finally been put out to grass? (For that
matter, does it have a "generic text printer"?)


Yes, there are a couple of generic drivers available. But what
printers they will work with, I don't know.

Do you still have a dot-matrix printer? My last one was dumped about
20 years ago.

I have a few somewhere, but the reason I asked was: not too long ago I
was trying to sort out an old BBC Master/Star LC-10 combination for a
blind friend. (The BBC Master is an old, pre-PC, 6502-based computer.) I
found that XP had a driver for the LC-10, so tried it; not only did it
work fine, it actually produced very good-quality output - it seemed
decidedly odd seeing an XP test page emerging from such a geriatric
device. (Not colour, of course, and slow and noisy, but couldn't be
faulted in quality.) So I was just curious - having been surprised
enough that XP had a driver - as to whether 7 (32 or 64) did.

It's fairly moot, since most printers of that vintage are parallel
interface, and many 7 machines don't have one. (Well, laptops and
netbooks anyway; do desktops?)


Parallel ports on either laptops or desktops are pretty much gone. But
you should still be able to buy a parallel port card for a desktop.
And you can buy a parallel-USB converter. So parallel printers can
still be used.

USB>Parallel converters are often OK for 'dumb' (uni-directional)
printers, but most likely will not work for scanners and other
bidirectional devices as the hardware emulation isn't fully
implemented on any of the converters I've tested.
Application software which reads and writes directly to parallel port
addresses is the point of failure.

Yes, but we were talking about very old dot-matrix printers.
USB-Parallel converters probably work just fine with most, if not all,
of them.

Agreed, but scanners and other devices have been mentioned in this
thread, so I added the comment to prevent folk with those from
wasting their time on USB>parallel converters. They also fail
on printer application software which relies on bidirectional
communication, such as low-ink reporting etc.

 

[Steve Hayes]

In XP, if you had done it through the GUI, as Gene suggested, then
that same technique would have carried over to 7. Editing the
autoexec.bat file is so last century.

I never knew you could do that and I've been using XP for 6-7 years now.

But there are lots of thing that seem easier to do through the command line.
If I want to see a list of files I often click on the command prompt and type
dir.

 

[R. C. White]

Hi, Steve.

If I want to see a list of files I often click on the command prompt and
type

dir.

At the Command Prompt, type "set" to see your Environment Variables - or to
set them - just as in MS-DOS.

I haven't looked in Autoexec.bat in years, but it probably uses the Set Path
command for this kind of job.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2011 (Build 15.4.3538.0513) in Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1


"Steve Hayes" wrote in message

In XP, if you had done it through the GUI, as Gene suggested, then
that same technique would have carried over to 7. Editing the
autoexec.bat file is so last century.

I never knew you could do that and I've been using XP for 6-7 years now.

But there are lots of thing that seem easier to do through the command line.
If I want to see a list of files I often click on the command prompt and
type
dir.

 

[Ken Blake]

On 09/08/2011 19:05, Ken Blake wrote:

Agreed, but scanners and other devices have been mentioned in this
thread, so I added the comment to prevent folk with those from
wasting their time on USB>parallel converters. They also fail
on printer application software which relies on bidirectional
communication, such as low-ink reporting etc.

OK.

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

At the Command Prompt, type "set" to see your Environment
Variables - or to set them - just as in MS-DOS.

That will only work for the current Command Prompt instance. As soon
as you close it, those changes are lost. Also, even while that
Command Prompt is open, other instances of the Command Prompt won't
have those changes.

I haven't looked in Autoexec.bat in years, but it probably uses the
Set Path command for this kind of job.

Autoexec.bat used to do this, and even up until XP, Windows would
parse the autoexec.bat to look for set commands to process, but not
any more.

Oh, on a side note - the version of WLM you are using makes a hash out
of replies, specifically quoting and attribution. You would do well
to switch to a more capable newsreader. I know others go so far as to
kill file posts from WLM 15 users because of the problems it causes.

 

[Walt]

Yeah and I believe that if anyone else but Commodore Business Machines
had bought the Amiga that it would still be around today as well. CBM's
biggest blunder was it's attempt to market the Amiga as a business
machine, but it just didn't have the "killer" business software to go
along with it.

The Amiga was an outstanding computer for graphics. In the early 90s
nothing could touch it in that respect. It was as good or even better
than the Mac at a fraction of the price. And your right, if CBM had
advertised it as a graphics computer rather than business it might
still be around. I know it was used by several TV stations instead of
the Mac. However it wasn'r an easy computer to work on. I've always
thought engineers and designers should be required to work on
everything they designed.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

However it wasn'r an easy computer to work on. I've always
thought engineers and designers should be required to work on
everything they designed.

Double or triple "amen" to that.

My career was in software engineering, which makes that opinion tiotally
valid

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

And don't forget WordPerfect which I've been using since DOS days and
it can't be beat, primarily for the view hidden screen viewable at the
bottom. And I find it easier and does more than Open Office. Don't
know the price these days to purchase the CD or perhaps ebay lists a
used version a couple of years old at a much lower price. (I'm still
using version 12 even though I've had X3 sitting around for a year or
more.)
Miles

Here's some varied mileage:

I absolutely hated WordPerfect (under DOS, BTW), but I used it until the
day my company installed MS Word on my computer at work.

When I got home that day, I ordered Word and never looked back.

But of course we're different folks, and we have different preferences,
so I don't (can't!) argue that WP isn't good for you.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

But when you buy a computer with Win 7 already installed, how do you find out
about things like that? It comes with piss-poor documentation, and you have to
stop working with a computer and spend a couple of months learning how to use
the thing.

It was easier to instal the 32-bit version and carry on working.

My experience was nowhere near so difficult, so I can't answer well.

Most of what I do worked pretty much the same way in the new versions
(first Vista, then 7), and anyway I bought and read a book or two.

I was functional right away, and with the help of the books, comfortable
in a week or two. But don't get me wrong - I still have complaints and
annoyances about 7.

As for finding out which older programs work, I just tried them. The
ones that failed were ones involving hardware, where the makers hadn't
updated the drivers. An example is the Philips line of Pronto
programmable home entertainment remote controls. Still, the S/W does
work in virtual Windows XP, so it's useable, although not convenient.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Not the same as in XP.

There I could do it with Autoexec.bat thus:

SET CLASSPATH=C:\Program Files\PhotoDeluxe 2.0\AdobeConnectables
SET PATH=%PATH%;c:\windows;c:\du;e:\xy;c:\belfry

In Windows 7 that did not work (I didn't put the first line there, only the
second).

As Char Jackson pointed out, it is the same as in XP; also, I replied to
what you wrote, not, apparently, what you meant, when you said "I had to
do a lot of extra typing until I found a utility that could set up the
environment variables, because W7 doesn't let you do it by hand".

But if you want an easy way, do what I do:

In a command window, run
echo %variablename% > env.txt

Now edit env.txt to your heart's delight, then copy the text (you know,
Ctrl-A, Ctrl-C) and go to the place I told you about. Highlight
(Ctrl-A) the environment string there and paste (Ctrl-V) the new one
over it.

Do be careful

I will more often create just the new environment variables in an editor
and paste them into an appropriate place within the existing string,
since that is safer (IMO).

E.g., I might paste a string like ";C:\Other Programs\" (no quotes) at a
good place in the existing path variable (the most common change I
make), or I might create a whole new environment variable and paste it &
its name into the New dialog.

I'll try to remember to see if I can make changes done in batch files
stick, but that will require a reboot, so I won't do it now.

 

[Allen]

Here's some varied mileage:

I absolutely hated WordPerfect (under DOS, BTW), but I used it until the
day my company installed MS Word on my computer at work.

When I got home that day, I ordered Word and never looked back.

But of course we're different folks, and we have different preferences,
so I don't (can't!) argue that WP isn't good for you.

As I recall, in the early days of PCs (and, of course, WP and MSW) Word
Perfect was driven by what seemed like a jillion hotkeys, which one had
to memorize in order to use it well. Word, on the other hand, was driven
by menus--many of them--but all seeable with the touch or two of a key.
At the same time, people were buying PCs to decentralize some of the
common business functions. This included eliminating or significantly
cutting back on centralized Word Processing departments (for which WP
was originally designed) and moving typing back home to individuals or
their departments. This required a system that was as easy to use as a
typewriter; WP failed in this because of the all the hot keys that were
not defined on the screen and MSW succeeded because the menu structure
was visibly defined. I don't know what WP is like now; MSW, with its
last two versions with the ribbon (or "where can we hide it so that no
one is likely to guess") system. I wouldn't be surprised is more
user-friendly than MSW today, but 27 years ago the decision between the
two was a no-brainer.
Allen

 

[Steve Hayes]

I googled "Word Magic" and found references to current apps for various
smart phones etc but nothing re 30 years ago. Maybe in days of yore I
worked on cataloging graves in Arlington Natl Cemetery. Whatever its
name, it was so far ahead of its time compared to other WP programs that
it was no contest. If I ever come up with its proper name I'll post it
so that, unlike those suddenly anonymous veterans in Arlington it can
have a proper gravestone.
Allen

Well I used XyWrite 25 years ago, and still use it today.

Only if I want to print anything I have to RTF it across to a Windows program
like MS Word because modern printers can't print from MS DOS.

 

[Steve Hayes]

Hi, Steve.

dir.

At the Command Prompt, type "set" to see your Environment Variables - or to
set them - just as in MS-DOS.

I haven't looked in Autoexec.bat in years, but it probably uses the Set Path
command for this kind of job.

In XP, yes. But it didn't work in Windows 7.

 

[Ken Blake]

As I recall, in the early days of PCs (and, of course, WP and MSW) Word
Perfect was driven by what seemed like a jillion hotkeys, which one had
to memorize in order to use it well.

I believe you are thinking of WordStar, not WordPerfect--two very
different programs.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Well I used XyWrite 25 years ago, and still use it today.

Only if I want to print anything I have to RTF it across to a Windows program
like MS Word because modern printers can't print from MS DOS.

I had totally forgotten about XyWrite - thanks for the reminder.

I might have even used it for a while, but recollection is fading

 

[Carroll Robbins]

I believe you are thinking of WordStar, not WordPerfect--two very
different programs.

WordStar was optionally menu driven. It died because it was slow to release
an IBM PC version.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

I believe you are thinking of WordStar, not WordPerfect--two very
different programs.

Part of my hatred of WordPerfect related to how it handled printers.

For example, you could change the printer settings and it still wouldn't
work, because there were two or three other places where the settings
had to be changed.

And in spite of being able to toggle the visibility of the codes,
formatting text was an exercise in futility - for me, anyway.

For me, MSW just worked - to coin a slogan

But of course, SPMDV (some people's mileage does vary).

 

[Ken Blake]

Part of my hatred of WordPerfect related to how it handled printers.

For example, you could change the printer settings and it still wouldn't
work, because there were two or three other places where the settings
had to be changed.

And in spite of being able to toggle the visibility of the codes,
formatting text was an exercise in futility - for me, anyway.

For me, MSW just worked - to coin a slogan

But of course, SPMDV (some people's mileage does vary).

Although we often agree on things, in this case we are diametrically
opposed. To me WordPerfect is, and has always been, by far the best
word processor.