OEM Windows

[R. C. White]

Ho, Joerg.

It was ever thus...more or less.

A greatly oversimplified explanation:

There are 3 "flavors" (my word) of OEM Windows.

1. Big Boy OEM - as in HP and Dell. They buy Windows by the millions,
customize them and pre-install them on the machines they sell. This OEM
Windows cannot be installed on any other machine, not even identical models
sold by the same maker.

2. Mom and Pop OEM. Your local computer dealer buys this - perhaps by
the dozens - and sells it to you and me, along with a computer. At least,
it is supposed to be sold only with a new computer, or some significant part
of a computer, but this restriction was so frequently ignored that it is no
long enforced, I think.

3. System Builder - same as #2, but the local shop pre-installs it on a
new computer that the shop assembles from components and sell.

The key feature of ALL of these is that the OEM - the assembler of the
computer - whether Dell or the local shop or the end-user himself, assumes
the obligation for support of that copy of Windows, relieving Microsoft of
that burden. Also, all of these OEM versions are licensed only for the
computer on which they are first installed; they cannot legally be installed
on a different computer, even if they are removed from the original machine.
A "retail" package of Windows, on the other hand, whether Full or Upgrade,
can be installed on a different computer, so long as it is removed from the
first one and never exists on two computers at once. (A well-known but
seldom mentioned feature is that the Activation process stops checking after
120 days, so activation of a second installation is possible after about 4
months.)

There are plenty of debates and arguments about what is no longer "the same
computer", which we'll save for another day. As I said, this is a greatly
oversimplified explanation, but I hope it clarifies the basic idea of OEM
versus Retail packages.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2011 (Build 15.4.3538.0513) in Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1


"Joerg Jaeger" wrote in message

Ok, got it. Made the wrong choice.
But i wonder, was this always like that? Just wondering.
In any case, i have to buy a fullversion next time.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Joerg Jaeger]

Well, it does make sense. All i wanted to know is answered.
So now i know that i made the wrong purchase but with knowing that my
next purchase will be more selective.
On the other hand it wasn't expensive so i can live with it.

Thanks again for explaining. It really did help.

 

[Joerg Jaeger]

My concern would be the motherboard. My understanding was that the
motherboard consitutes as a computer. I mean, does Win7 not collect
information and send it then to MS? I actually thought that is what
they are doing. So in my logic they would know what hardware i run the
copy of Win7 on.

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: []

If the transition to the new hardware is gradual enough - i. e., you
change the hardware a bit at a time - it could be considered as (and the
Windows installation will see it as) an upgrade; whether that is illegal
in terms of the licence isn't definite one way or the other. Certainly,
if you put it on a second machine and then take it off the first, that's
against the terms of an OEM System Builder, but not a full retail.

The upgrade-until-you-have-a-new-computer scheme is an "out" to their
license. However, during the upgrades or after them all, you still only
have one host (the old one that became a new one) on which to use the
OEM license. You don't end up with 2 hosts consisting of all the old
hardware and another with all the new hardware and the same license used
on both hosts.

Oh, having two machines running one licence - _whatever_ sort the
licence is - is right out.

_Moving_ a licence from one machine to another - i. e. you _remove_ it
from the first, such that that now has no OS - is allowed for a full,
but not an OEM, licence. It will _work_ for an OEM licence, provided you
wait long enough (others are saying 120 days), but it's not what you're
supposed to do.

Gradually morphing the old machine into the new one (and, possibly,
putting all the old bits back together to make a working machine - as
long as it _doesn't_ have the Windows on it) is probably allowed with
just the OEM licence, but sounds like a lot of effort to me.

 

[choro]

This may be a fine line (not a lawyer here), but the difference may be
you are purchasing a license to use a product, with stipulations, and
not the product itself. Sort of like leasing a new car as opposed to
buying it. If you don't like the stipulations, it's your choice as the
consumer to not buy the license.
FU!


I suspect the average consumer, if not the vast majority, know about the
EULA. How many people ever read the EULA? Further, how many people do
you know that got a used computer from someone/somewhere, with no
original system CD's, restore partition, COA sticker, etc.?

 

[choro]

Yes but you have to buy it first and open the package before you get to
read the EULA in the first place. And I haven't found anybody to take
back opened software yet. So you are damned if you do and damned if you
don't.

Well said! The EULA is nothing but piracy, pure and simple!

 

[Ken Springer]

FU!

Gee, that's nice and friendly. <grin>


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 10.0.2
Thunderbird 10.0.2
LibreOffice 3.5.0 rc3

 

[BillW50]

My concern would be the motherboard. My understanding was that the
motherboard consitutes as a computer. I mean, does Win7 not collect
information and send it then to MS? I actually thought that is what
they are doing. So in my logic they would know what hardware i run the
copy of Win7 on.

No, Microsoft made it clear that you can exchange a defective
motherboard with an OEM license. You can upgrade with an OEM license
too. The common rule is something original must be kept. What is unclear
is how small of the original can you go. As does one original screw
count or what?

 

[KCB]

In message <[email protected]>, VanguardLH <[email protected]>
writes:
[]
Forgot to mention that the prices that I exampled were for the
Professional version. I don't waste my time with the Home editions.

Out of interest, why do you say that - what is missing from the home
editions that would make them a waste of your time?

Start here, then click the various tabs for more information:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/products/compare

Yes, I could have found that for myself: I was curious which feature(s)
YOU considered it a waste of time not to have.

To save others the time, the above page lists the differences as:

o XP mode only available in Pro
o company networks easier and more secure in Pro
o backup to a network only available in Pro
o BitLocker encryption only available in Ult
o language-switching only available in Ult

Here are others that you didn't mention, but I'm sure there are more. I
believe you were asking Vanguard, but the reason I like Pro is for the XP
Mode and Networking capabilities.
-Joining a domain only available in Pro and above
-Remote desktop is available to all, but can only connect to Pro and above
-File encryption in Pro and above
-Group Policy Editor in Pro and above

 

[Char Jackson]

FU!

FU? As in "Kung"?

 

[Ken Springer]

FU? As in "Kung"?

"Ah, Grasshopper."

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 10.0.2
Thunderbird 10.0.2
LibreOffice 3.5.0 rc3

 

[Char Jackson]

My concern would be the motherboard. My understanding was that the
motherboard consitutes as a computer. I mean, does Win7 not collect
information and send it then to MS? I actually thought that is what
they are doing. So in my logic they would know what hardware i run the
copy of Win7 on.

I seem to remember reading that Windows collects information about the
hardware that it sees *and then computes a hash* from that
information. Thus, MS would have no knowledge of the hardware you're
using, but they can see if it changes.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_function>

 

[Char Jackson]

The last one was from Paragon (I like Paragon generally and I have
bought a lot from them). But the latest one restores a XP machine that I
had a dualboot XP and Windows 7 on it once. Now it only has XP on it and
I removed all traces of Windows 7 that I know of. But it restores a
previously working XP system and sets it up to boot Windows 7 instead.

1. Do a restore from that image.
2. Fix the odd booting issue.
3. Create a new image that incorporates the fix from #2.
4. Delete the problematic image.

That way you can stop telling us this same story over and over.

 

[Joerg Jaeger]

I have to say that it does sound silly. I mean you would keep a screw
and its the original state.
Well, but if that makes it legal its well.
Though, does it now tie it to a hardware or not? I am still puzzled on
that issue.

 

[Rob]

Can not or should not? I have done it so maybe you care to clarify.

OEM version which you have can be purchased when you buy or build a new
computer without a pre installed OS.

You only get one serial number that can be registered. If you want it on
another PC you must talk to MS and either get another of them or
purchase if from them.

 

[choro]

Gee, that's nice and friendly. <grin>

<Bugger grin... sorry that IS a slip of the finger. Honest. I really
meant to say Bigger grin>
But seriously why would I have to buy another OEM version of Windows if
my MoBo packs up even if I have to change my HDs from ATA to SATA
because I can't get any new Mobos to accept ATA HDs?

Fair is fair and MS deserve to get paid for the OS and I don't begrudge
paying a fair sum for the OS. In fact I have probably bought half a
dozen OEM versions of Win XP so far to say nothing of Win 3.1, Windows
95, 98, Millennium. I have never used any pirated software but aren't
these software companies inviting piracy with their inflated prices for
individuals building their own systems. Most of us do it for the love of
messing around with computers. To us it is a hobby and I see no logical
reason why I can't transfer my Win OEM to another machine so long as I
don't have more than one copy of it running at the same time?

How would you feel if you had to buy a new car if you had to replace
your carburettor, for example, because the car manufacturer's EULA
stipulated that you can't replace your carburettor?

In any case, the likes of Toshiba, Dell etc pay peanuts for their copy
of Windows whereas small dealers who buy in dozens pay through the nose
while the individual who builds his own computer pays a fortune?

I wonder how much MS charge DELL for example per copy of Windows and how
much I, for example, have to pay for an OEM copy? Probably 1,000 % if
not more of what DELL have to pay for a copy. Something's not right here.
-- choro

 

[choro]

Look, there is one rule that is both fair and simple. You buy and OEM
version and this should give you the right to run the OS on one machine
and not install it on more than one machine at any moment in time.

That would be both fair and simple both for MS and for the customer.

What they have done with MS Office, in that if you buy the Student/Home
version, you can run it on up to 3 machines, is both fair and simple.
That was a good positive move by MS. It just doesn't make sense to
charge a home user hundreds of dollars for ANY edition of MS Office.

Let me also add here that I am definitely against piracy and abhor it.
But do I welcome freeware? Of course I do. But I would rather pay a
reasonable sum for any software if it does a better job and if I am
going to make use of it for several years.

Sometimes I feel people have got their priorities wrong. I think people
should also donate at least some money to freebies just to show their
appreciation. I, for example, have started making a yearly donation to
Wikipedia and some other such setups. They DO deserve it.

Though beware of Registry Cleaners and certain AV programs that try to
get a free ride on the backs of freebies and lumber your computer in
stealth!
-- choro

 

[Ken Springer]

<Bugger grin... sorry that IS a slip of the finger. Honest. I really
meant to say Bigger grin>
But seriously why would I have to buy another OEM version of Windows if
my MoBo packs up even if I have to change my HDs from ATA to SATA
because I can't get any new Mobos to accept ATA HDs?

I agree, I don't know why a person shouldn't be able to do this.

But, that's our opinion. As it stands, the terms of a EULA is law.
(For the sake of this discussion, let's leave out a discussion of
whether EULAs are legal or not. That's a different question.)
Therefore, you have to (or at least should if you're honest, ethical,
moral, etc. ) obey the law. What if my opinion was I should be
able to drive on the other side of the street? What if my opinion was,
I should be able to paint graffiti on your front door?

Should I be allowed to do that?

Fair is fair and MS deserve to get paid for the OS and I don't begrudge
paying a fair sum for the OS. In fact I have probably bought half a
dozen OEM versions of Win XP so far to say nothing of Win 3.1, Windows
95, 98, Millennium. I have never used any pirated software but aren't
these software companies inviting piracy with their inflated prices for
individuals building their own systems.

Agreed. Although, I'm not so sure the cost of some software is out of
line anymore. I remember paying $5,000 for software and hardware for my
early systems 30+ years ago. With inflation over those years, I wonder
how much money I spent in today's dollars.

Most of us do it for the love of
messing around with computers. To us it is a hobby and I see no logical
reason why I can't transfer my Win OEM to another machine so long as I
don't have more than one copy of it running at the same time?

I'd agree that (possibly) most of us that read newsgroups may do it
because of our interest in computers, but I seriously doubt that
perspective applies to the majority of users.

And I agree re: only one copy of it running at one time. Just to split
hairs for the purpose of discussion, does "running at the same time"
mean, one copy installed on a single computer, or multiple copies of the
same license on multiple computers, but only one computer turned on an
running at any one time?

It can get complicated! LOL

How would you feel if you had to buy a new car if you had to replace
your carburettor, for example, because the car manufacturer's EULA
stipulated that you can't replace your carburettor?

But a carburetor is a physical item. You can clean it, paint it, put it
on the shelf and admire it.

Not so with computer code. That's not physical, once assembled and
running, can you paint it? Set it on the shelf? It's intellectual
property, like music and stories in books.

Say you were someone like J. K. Rowling (Harry Potter), and you wrote
the first book expecting to sell a million printed copies. But, someone
buy a single copy, mass produces copies on a copy machine, and gives
away 950,000 copies. How much interest would you have in writing Book 2?

In any case, the likes of Toshiba, Dell etc pay peanuts for their copy
of Windows whereas small dealers who buy in dozens pay through the nose
while the individual who builds his own computer pays a fortune?

True, but the conditions under which the copies were sold are not
identical. There's always been a cost advantage to buying in quantity.

Also, if you use the Restore CD or image on a Dell, you'll likely find
the product ID that's on the hard drive does not match the sticker on
the machine. I just learned that a short time ago, and it surprised me.
I think that situation has to do with the buying in quantity, and that
particular product ID is unique to Dell or whomever. The small guy just
can't match the quantity issue.

I wonder how much MS charge DELL for example per copy of Windows and how
much I, for example, have to pay for an OEM copy? Probably 1,000 % if
not more of what DELL have to pay for a copy. Something's not right here.

It's quantity and free enterprise.

I really wish the contemporary computer "world" was like 30+ years ago.
You could go to a store and see IBM, Commodore, Apple, Atari,
Timex/Sinclair, Radio Shack, TI, (who else was out there......), and a
lot of models of each. But, not too many different OS's exist anymore,
compared to then.

It does seem to be moving back to that situation, though. It used to be
you pretty much had to go to an Apple store to see Apples. PC's were
like trash on the street, pretty much everywhere.

But Apple seems to be branching out, you can now buy them at Micro
Center stores (the one in Denver, CO, USA has a real nice Mac section),
and Best Buy (cheesy Mac area), and there are a few remaining Apple
retailers (there's one here in Colorado Springs, CO).

I wish places like Micro Center and Best Buy would set up some Linux
machines, so consumers could have the opportunity to see and evaluate 3
OS's. Although I don't think, personally, that Linux is quite ready for
the general public from what little I've seen.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 10.0.2
Thunderbird 10.0.2
LibreOffice 3.5.0 rc3

 

[Joerg Jaeger]

Not sure how good the encryption is from MS. Is that any good in
comparison to other offerings?
The other feature don't help me, thats why i opted for the home. I
used to have XP pro. Did not need all the option though.

In message <[email protected]>, VanguardLH <[email protected]>
writes:
[]
Forgot to mention that the prices that I exampled were for the
Professional version. I don't waste my time with the Home editions.

Out of interest, why do you say that - what is missing from the home
editions that would make them a waste of your time?


Start here, then click the various tabs for more information:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/products/compare

Yes, I could have found that for myself: I was curious which feature(s)
YOU considered it a waste of time not to have.

To save others the time, the above page lists the differences as:

o XP mode only available in Pro
o company networks easier and more secure in Pro
o backup to a network only available in Pro
o BitLocker encryption only available in Ult
o language-switching only available in Ult

Here are others that you didn't mention, but I'm sure there are more. I
believe you were asking Vanguard, but the reason I like Pro is for the XP
Mode and Networking capabilities.
-Joining a domain only available in Pro and above
-Remote desktop is available to all, but can only connect to Pro and above
-File encryption in Pro and above
-Group Policy Editor in Pro and above

 

[Joerg Jaeger]

Gee, i would opt for Amiga OS then. Best ever system i ran in my life.
Now we are stuck with 2 commercial choices. Windows and Mac. Thats it.
So big choices.

 

[Joerg Jaeger]

Well, i can't afford MSOffice. And i don't even need it so i use Libre
Office right now. Works for me.

Btw. my question really was about one computer with one copy of OS.
Not that that got mixed up somehow.

Donating is always good. There are so many programs that sometimes do
the same as full blown software.