OEM Windows

[XS11E]

I am not surprised you don't want a debate with nothing
intelligent to add.

What's to add, you've already shown us that you're a cheat, a crook and
a dishonest person.

<PLONK>

 

[Ken Springer]

I have a policy of not entering into lengthy arguments with nincompoops!
-- choro

Unfortunately, choro, Seth is correct. I almost posted exactly the same
point.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 10.0.2
Thunderbird 10.0.2
LibreOffice 3.5.0 rc3

 

[charlie]

Although like many others, I disagree with this Microsoft policy and
wish they didn't have it, I think the reason why they have it is very
clear: it's because the OEM version is less expensive than the Full
Retail version. If the rules for the two versions were the same, they
would never sell the Full Retail version.

Originally, MS wasn't going to sell the OEM version at retail.
We used to buy it in 5 packs for custom builds directly from MS.
As time went along, we decided that the price difference didn't justify
the hassles, and changed to delivering full retail versions with some
"minor" customization. "Generic" motherboards were one of the major
reasons. Further, some of the Taiwan made boards in "white box" bare
bones systems had BIOS versions that would validate many of the OEM
specific branded windows versions. Dell and Toshiba were the most
common, with about a dozen less well known OEM/vendors.

We delivered with an installed windows version, and the appropriate MS
sealed retail version. The customer opens the sealed version, and enters
the key. If they wish to reinstall, they can do so. Depending on the
customer, and so forth, There may or may not be an additional custom
DVD, OEM CD's for drivers, etc.

Generic retail windows was less expensive in the long run, and much
easier to support, update, etc., since MS had the support for windows
itself, not us, unless it was some peculiar problem unique to a custom
system. We did have some customers that insisted on specific
sub-versions that were somewhat unique, usually those customers that
"owned" one or more domains. It was not usually necessary to do a total
reinstall, just the equivalent of an OEM branding/customization process.
(Sysprep,etc.) In a few cases, the customer insisted on total reinstall
by their personnel, in order to maintain complete control of the
installed system software. I always thought that this was a bit
shortsighted, since, as far as I knew, they did not really go through a
thorough BIOS checking and validation process, and find or close any
"backdoors".

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

[]

I don't think I am robbing anyone by maybe stretching the limits.
Like I posted, I started out with one machine and gradually replaced

Note he did it gradually. He didn't move it from one machine to another;
he installed it on a single machine. At no point did he have two
machines. (Whether, at the end of the process, he had enough of the
original parts still, and they were still working, to put together a
working - but OS-less - PC, he doesn't say.)
[]

The EULA is not at all specific, and doesn't define what a new machine
is. Is that a weakness of the EULA? Absolutely!

But what Microsoft's position is on this is clear. As far as they are
concerned, you are violating the EULA. So what would happen if you

Why - at what point did he violate the EULA?
[]

This discussion has gone on too long, as far as I'm concerned, and is
approaching a debate, which, as I said, I don't want to do. So this is
my last post on the subject.

I hope you don't get caught doing what you do.

To be caught, there'd have to be something catchable. You can't get
caught doing nothing (unless you're supposed to be doing something at
the time)!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Radio 4 is one of the reasons being British is good. It's not a subset of
Britain - it's almost as if Britain is a subset of Radio 4. - Stephen Fry, in
Radio Times, 7-13 June, 2003.

 

[choro]

Unfortunately, choro, Seth is correct. I almost posted exactly the same
point.

You are both entitled to your opinions and I am entitled to mine. If I
buy something I buy something whether physical or just the licence. If I
hold the licence I can do anything with it within reason. Like
installing and running it on ONE machine regardless of how many changes
I make to that machine. More than that I should have the right to use
that software on another computer so long as I am NOT using it on more
than one computer simultaneously.

MS must learn NOT to be too greedy. The market has forced them to
entitle owners of MS Office Student and Home version on upto 3 machines
per household. Unfortunately with Windows they are in a more or less
monopoly situation and they misuse their monopoly. Though I don't
approve or practise piracy, they are inflicting it upon themselves by
their very policies.
-- choro

 

[Char Jackson]

You are both entitled to your opinions and I am entitled to mine. If I
buy something I buy something whether physical or just the licence. If I
hold the licence I can do anything with it within reason.

No, you can do anything allowed (or not disallowed) by the license.

Like
installing and running it on ONE machine regardless of how many changes
I make to that machine. More than that I should have the right to use
that software on another computer so long as I am NOT using it on more
than one computer simultaneously.

You may have the best intentions but you supposedly agreed to the
license terms when you purchased the license. Buying the license and
then doing what you want isn't quite how it's supposed to work.

 

[Ken Springer]

If I
hold the licence I can do anything with it within reason.

I would, respectfully, disagree. When you have a license, be it
software, ham radio, driver's license, etc., you are bound by the terms
of the license.

If you want to abuse those terms, at least with software ( ),
that's fine with me. But, should you get caught and end up with some
kind of penalty, the only one that will be to blame is you.

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 10.0.2
Thunderbird 10.0.2
LibreOffice 3.5.0 rc3

 

[charlie]

[]

I don't think I am robbing anyone by maybe stretching the limits.
Like I posted, I started out with one machine and gradually replaced

Note he did it gradually. He didn't move it from one machine to another;
he installed it on a single machine. At no point did he have two
machines. (Whether, at the end of the process, he had enough of the
original parts still, and they were still working, to put together a
working - but OS-less - PC, he doesn't say.)
[]

The EULA is not at all specific, and doesn't define what a new machine
is. Is that a weakness of the EULA? Absolutely!

But what Microsoft's position is on this is clear. As far as they are
concerned, you are violating the EULA. So what would happen if you

Why - at what point did he violate the EULA?
[]

This discussion has gone on too long, as far as I'm concerned, and is
approaching a debate, which, as I said, I don't want to do. So this is
my last post on the subject.

I hope you don't get caught doing what you do.

To be caught, there'd have to be something catchable. You can't get
caught doing nothing (unless you're supposed to be doing something at
the time)!

Occasionally, problems arise, even with a name brand OEM system.
Usually, it involves something like replacement of the original
motherboard. The OEMs have been known to supply replacement boards that
do not validate with the original windows OEM install.

Those that service such machines, be they the OEM or otherwise, often
have workarounds available. Some are MS approved, others not.

MS does have a scheme in place to deal with rebuilt or similar machines.
One situation that I know of involves machines that were originally
bought by the government, then sold at auction, with or without a
functional hard drive. MS would like to sell a new windows copy for each.

On the other hand, if the machine has a valid key on the case, or
a valid copy of windows on a hard drive, or in some cases, certain BIOS
OEM mods, the original OEM licensed windows version can be recovered or
re-installed. It gets a bit "sticky" when the original installed version
was a government use only licensed version, unless the new end user is
the government or a government employee.

 

[Allen Drake]

[]
I don't think I am robbing anyone by maybe stretching the limits.
Like I posted, I started out with one machine and gradually replaced

Note he did it gradually. He didn't move it from one machine to another;
he installed it on a single machine. At no point did he have two
machines. (Whether, at the end of the process, he had enough of the
original parts still, and they were still working, to put together a
working - but OS-less - PC, he doesn't say.)
[]

The EULA is not at all specific, and doesn't define what a new machine
is. Is that a weakness of the EULA? Absolutely!

But what Microsoft's position is on this is clear. As far as they are
concerned, you are violating the EULA. So what would happen if you

Why - at what point did he violate the EULA?
[]

This discussion has gone on too long, as far as I'm concerned, and is
approaching a debate, which, as I said, I don't want to do. So this is
my last post on the subject.

I hope you don't get caught doing what you do.

To be caught, there'd have to be something catchable. You can't get
caught doing nothing (unless you're supposed to be doing something at
the time)!

Occasionally, problems arise, even with a name brand OEM system.
Usually, it involves something like replacement of the original
motherboard. The OEMs have been known to supply replacement boards that
do not validate with the original windows OEM install.

Those that service such machines, be they the OEM or otherwise, often
have workarounds available. Some are MS approved, others not.

MS does have a scheme in place to deal with rebuilt or similar machines.
One situation that I know of involves machines that were originally
bought by the government, then sold at auction, with or without a
functional hard drive. MS would like to sell a new windows copy for each.

On the other hand, if the machine has a valid key on the case, or
a valid copy of windows on a hard drive, or in some cases, certain BIOS
OEM mods, the original OEM licensed windows version can be recovered or
re-installed. It gets a bit "sticky" when the original installed version
was a government use only licensed version, unless the new end user is
the government or a government employee.

Maybe I could clarify and mention that I replaced the mother board
with an exact same board I found online. An 845 GBV desktop board. I
am still waiting however for someone, anyone to show me in written
terms that I am violating anything. At one point I had a computer shop
replace a board and he came up with the same results if that means
anything. I bet if you call some of these shops you would get the same
reply as I have here. I am not to surprised at the outcry given the
state of the education and lack of a grasp of reality of some of the
posters here. Like the one who replied with a plonk choosing to bury
his head in the sand. Maybe that PLONK was the sound of him crapping
himself. Poor boy.

 

[Allen Drake]

What's to add, you've already shown us that you're a cheat, a crook and
a dishonest person.

<PLONK>

Here you go Mr plonker. Read it and weep foooo.

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...hardware/9ebfef99-6984-4b1d-9209-fa1078481d83

OEM versions allow all hardware upgrades except for an upgrade to a
different model motherboard


As I posted I replaced my board with an exact same make and model.

I don't expect you to pull your head out so go on living your life in
a hole.

 

[charlie]

Here you go Mr plonker. Read it and weep foooo.

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...hardware/9ebfef99-6984-4b1d-9209-fa1078481d83

OEM versions allow all hardware upgrades except for an upgrade to a
different model motherboard


As I posted I replaced my board with an exact same make and model.

I don't expect you to pull your head out so go on living your life in
a hole.

What we found was that OEMs can modify certain parts of BIOS. An
identical or similar MBD from the MBD mfr may or may not have the system
OEM mods. Even systems with added things such as "security chips"
on the MBD may not be as "unique" as everyone believes.

All of that aside, I really think that replacing a MBD or a harddrive
due to a failure does not constitute a "new" system, thus the original
license should be valid.

Several years ago, with XP installed on some of our development/test
systems, frequent calls to MS and new keys were a fact of life, at least
until MS changed things.

How did MS come to dominate P/C ops systems?
Simple, actually. They sold DOS operating systems for next to nothing.
The first working versions of windows were not very expensive either.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Many people have said it in this thread: OEM can not be transferred to a new
computer.

O-E-M CAN NOT BE TRANSFERRED.

I said the above, but have been caught in a solecism.

1. Apparently it should be "can not legally be transferred" or "may not
be transferred".

2. Even so, the ensuing subthread shows a variety of opinions...and
that subthread alone has gotten to be way too long

Meanwhile, at the moment the whole thread is around 114 posts long,
including a large number that I, for one, haven't read yet.

So I'm going to ignore them and the rest of this thread from now on. Or
so I claim.

 

[Joerg Jaeger]

How did MS come to dominate P/C ops systems?
Simple, actually. They sold DOS operating systems for next to nothing.
The first working versions of windows were not very expensive either.

I don't know actually. I bought DOS 5 but don't remember the price
anymore. DR-Dos was also one i bought until MS f*** it up.

Some people argue that one company is a good thing since everything is
more streamlined.
The way i see it, even OSX is cheaper in fullversion than Windows. And
as a consumer you don't have much power at all.

--
ACCESS DENIED...

/\_/\
____/ o o \
/~____ =ø= /
(______)__m_m) el cato

 

[Allen Drake]

What we found was that OEMs can modify certain parts of BIOS. An
identical or similar MBD from the MBD mfr may or may not have the system
OEM mods. Even systems with added things such as "security chips"
on the MBD may not be as "unique" as everyone believes.

All of that aside, I really think that replacing a MBD or a harddrive
due to a failure does not constitute a "new" system, thus the original
license should be valid.

Several years ago, with XP installed on some of our development/test
systems, frequent calls to MS and new keys were a fact of life, at least
until MS changed things.

How did MS come to dominate P/C ops systems?
Simple, actually. They sold DOS operating systems for next to nothing.
The first working versions of windows were not very expensive either.

I figured that if you are truthful and register with MS and activate
and pass that test then that in itself is a contract and bind both
parties. I can't understand why there such an uproar with accusations
flying by the ones that actually seem to very little about obvious
facts. But so be it as some are just to old and are not willing to
learn to get along with the real world.(Mr. Plonker).

If my BIOS has been identified then I am happy as that just bolsters
my case.

 

[BillW50]

In

1. Do a restore from that image.
2. Fix the odd booting issue.
3. Create a new image that incorporates the fix from #2.
4. Delete the problematic image.

That way you can stop telling us this same story over and over.

That doesn't work Char. Paragon Drive Copy v11 thinks the boot is broken
on restore (when there is nothing wrong with it) and does what it thinks
is fixing it.

 

[Char Jackson]

In

That doesn't work Char.

No wonder you need CTRL-H. Two weeks is a long time in this group.

Paragon Drive Copy v11 thinks the boot is broken
on restore (when there is nothing wrong with it) and does what it thinks
is fixing it.

If your tools don't work for you, get new (different) tools. It's not
that complicated.

 

[BillW50]

In

No wonder you need CTRL-H. Two weeks is a long time in this group.

ROTFL... Indeed CTRL-H does come in handy. ;-)

If your tools don't work for you, get new (different) tools. It's not
that complicated.

Yes I do use different tools. But I bought Paragon Drive Copy v11 with a
money back guarantee. I requested a refund and I never heard back from
them. This happens a lot with me. Acronis is another backup utility that
I paid for and it never worked right either. As Acronis fails on restore
with some USB chipsets (every single version). I don't know about you,
but it gets old paying for software that you can't use. So what's the
word for the opposite of piracy? You know, one when developers sell you
something that you can't use and then run away after they got your
money?

 

[Char Jackson]

In

Yes I do use different tools. But I bought Paragon Drive Copy v11 with a
money back guarantee. I requested a refund and I never heard back from
them. This happens a lot with me. Acronis is another backup utility that
I paid for and it never worked right either. As Acronis fails on restore
with some USB chipsets (every single version). I don't know about you,
but it gets old paying for software that you can't use.

I'm sure you're not alone in buying software that doesn't do what you
expected it to do, but at some point the public complaining gets old.
Just because you bought something doesn't mean you have to continue to
use it when you already know it doesn't do what you want it to do. If
you can't make it work, move on to something else. Get opinions from
other people, read reviews, take advantage of free trials, etc.

Bottom line: Be a better informed consumer.

So what's the
word for the opposite of piracy? You know, one when developers sell you
something that you can't use and then run away after they got your
money?

2%'er? You seem to have more than your share of problems.

 

[BillW50]

In

I'm sure you're not alone in buying software that doesn't do what you
expected it to do, but at some point the public complaining gets old.
Just because you bought something doesn't mean you have to continue to
use it when you already know it doesn't do what you want it to do. If
you can't make it work, move on to something else. Get opinions from
other people, read reviews, take advantage of free trials, etc.

Bottom line: Be a better informed consumer.

Char, I have like 12 of Paragon other products and I have been happy
with all of them until this big change. And I have been a big supporter
of them until they started this thing about they know better than you
crap. And then they totally screwed up.

Don't worry. Microsoft is in the same boat. It used to be that the
administrator was in control. Not anymore with Vista, 7, and I haven't
run 8 yet (although I downloaded it). Now Microsoft is in control and if
you don't like it, tough!

2%'er? You seem to have more than your share of problems.

We few percent push stuff to the limits. As we have too. As it is the
best way to find the limits (plus it is very productive IMHO as you know
what the limits are). Test pilots does the very same thing. I personally
believe everybody should as well. But in my experience, most people just
don't have what it takes. As some were lucky if they can stop their VCRs
time from flashing (when people had VCRs anyway ;-) ).

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Yes I do use different tools. But I bought Paragon Drive Copy v11 with a
money back guarantee. I requested a refund and I never heard back from

[]
I'm sure you're not alone in buying software that doesn't do what you
expected it to do, but at some point the public complaining gets old.

No, but if he bought it with some sort of guarantee they're not
honouring, that is bad and worth mentioning: that's a separate matter
from mentioning the actual fault.
[]

2%'er? You seem to have more than your share of problems.

I rather like his concept of reverse piracy though! (My suggestion of a
name for it.) And his reply (next post) that pushing to the limits finds
them has a point he doesn't explicitly state: doing so benefits all of
us indirectly as (hopefully!) at least some of the limits/bugs they
discover are addressed in the next version.