Windows 7 and hibernation


J

Joe Morris

At my POE the Help Desk threw me a ticket from a user complaining that his
new Windows 7 (64-bit) system didn't allow him to turn on hibernation. It
turned out that he had the same make and model as the one I use (Latitude
E6510) and I was able to reproduce the problem. The POWERCFG -H ON command
was accepted without any confirming message to the user...but that's they
way POWERCFG works. I verified that the HIBERFIL.SYS file was not created.

I found a Microsoft KB article (888575) documenting that for
XP/2003/Vista/2008 hibernation is unavailable for any machine having more
than 4GB of memory - this is a deliberate design specification by Microsoft.
The article hasn't been updated since April 2008 but it's probably
reasonable to believe that it also applies to Windows 7.

Here's the reason for this posting: both the user and I have systems with
exactly 4 GB of main memory memory (video uses unshared memory). Does
anyone know if there is a known restriction against hibernation for systems
*at* 4GB as opposed to *more than* 4GB?

So...does anyone know if hibernation is supposed to be available on 64-bit
Windows systems with exactly 4 GB of memory? Has anyone successfully used
hibernation with exactly 4 GB, or with more than 4 GB?

Thanks...

Joe Morris
 
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G

Gene E. Bloch

At my POE the Help Desk threw me a ticket from a user complaining that his
new Windows 7 (64-bit) system didn't allow him to turn on hibernation. It
turned out that he had the same make and model as the one I use (Latitude
E6510) and I was able to reproduce the problem. The POWERCFG -H ON command
was accepted without any confirming message to the user...but that's they
way POWERCFG works. I verified that the HIBERFIL.SYS file was not created.

I found a Microsoft KB article (888575) documenting that for
XP/2003/Vista/2008 hibernation is unavailable for any machine having more
than 4GB of memory - this is a deliberate design specification by Microsoft.
The article hasn't been updated since April 2008 but it's probably
reasonable to believe that it also applies to Windows 7.

Here's the reason for this posting: both the user and I have systems with
exactly 4 GB of main memory memory (video uses unshared memory). Does
anyone know if there is a known restriction against hibernation for systems
*at* 4GB as opposed to *more than* 4GB?

So...does anyone know if hibernation is supposed to be available on 64-bit
Windows systems with exactly 4 GB of memory? Has anyone successfully used
hibernation with exactly 4 GB, or with more than 4 GB?

Thanks...

Joe Morris
I have a 4 GB Sony Vaio all-in-one desktop running Windows 7, and there
is a hiberfile on my C: drive.

OTOH, I thought I had hibernation disabled. Also, I installed Win 7 a
while ago, and the date on the hiberfile is 1/11/10 (January 11, not
November 1). Maybe it was created under Vista. But that seems like it
would contradict the restriction you mentioned, since Vista would
probably be affected too.

Just a bit of OT: maybe the 4 GB in the rule is 4 decimal GB, so your 4
binary GB is > than the rule calls for :)

I have to admit that although that was my first though, it was never
meant seriously...

But to be serious:

I ran the command
powercfg -AVAILABLESLEEPSTATES

and got this output:

The following sleep states are available on this system: Standby ( S3 )
Hibernate Hybrid Sleep
The following sleep states are not available on this system:
Standby (S1)
The system firmware does not support this standby state.
Standby (S2)
The system firmware does not support this standby state.

Which leads me to another (possibly more helpful) speculation: is it
possible that your hardware or firmware won't let your computers
hibernate?
 
C

Chuck

I have a 4 GB Sony Vaio all-in-one desktop running Windows 7, and there
is a hiberfile on my C: drive.

OTOH, I thought I had hibernation disabled. Also, I installed Win 7 a
while ago, and the date on the hiberfile is 1/11/10 (January 11, not
November 1). Maybe it was created under Vista. But that seems like it
would contradict the restriction you mentioned, since Vista would
probably be affected too.

Just a bit of OT: maybe the 4 GB in the rule is 4 decimal GB, so your 4
binary GB is> than the rule calls for :)

I have to admit that although that was my first though, it was never
meant seriously...

But to be serious:

I ran the command
powercfg -AVAILABLESLEEPSTATES

and got this output:

The following sleep states are available on this system: Standby ( S3 )
Hibernate Hybrid Sleep
The following sleep states are not available on this system:
Standby (S1)
The system firmware does not support this standby state.
Standby (S2)
The system firmware does not support this standby state.

Which leads me to another (possibly more helpful) speculation: is it
possible that your hardware or firmware won't let your computers
hibernate?
The system I'm currently using gives the same
powercfg -AVAILABLESLEEPSTATES
Answers you listed.
However,the BIOS and hardware do support the S1 & S3 sleepstates when
the options are correctly set.
Out of box MBD settings may have sleep options disabled.
Normally, this system is used in ON, S1, or OFF,
so the BIOS options are set accordingly

Example
Asus M4A79 Deluxe MBD (Retail Box Version)
BIOS Suspend mode options (Choose one)
Auto
S1 (POS) only
S3 only

Repost Video on S3 resume (No)
ACPI 2.0 Support (Enabled)
ACPI APIC Support (Enabled)
 
S

smithdoerr

So...does anyone know if hibernation is supposed to be available on 64-bit
Windows systems with exactly 4 GB of memory? Has anyone successfully used
hibernation with exactly 4 GB, or with more than 4 GB?
My system is Win7 64-bit with 4 GB of ram (separate vid memory) and will go
into hibernation.

However, hybrid sleep needs to be set to Off in order to hibernate. If
hybrid sleep is set to On the system will do that instead and you won't see
hibernation as a shutdown option, just sleep.
 
A

Andy

that is faulse i run a machine with 16 gig's of ram and it works just fine:)
 
B

Bob Henson

Andy said:
that is faulse i run a machine with 16 gig's of ram and it works just fine:)
Andy, if you top post (deprecated) and leave the quote below your signature
marker the whole of the quoted item becomes your signature. If you must top
post, put your signature right at the bottom.
 
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R

R. C. White

?Hi, Gene.
OTOH, I thought I had hibernation disabled. Also, I installed Win 7 a
while ago, and the date on the hiberfile is 1/11/10 (January 11, not
November 1). Maybe it was created under Vista.
The two Hidden, System files hiberfil.sys and pagefile.sys should always be
dated today, at the time the computer was turned on and Windows was started.
Mine both now read "11/24/10 7:04 AM".

So, perhaps you do have hibernation disabled.

My system is Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1 RC (no relation <g>), with 4 GB RAM.
These file sizes are:
3,220,865,024 hiberfil.sys
4,294,488,064 pagefile.sys

(What's a POE, Joe? Point of Embarkation? Port of Entry?)

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-9/30/10)
Windows Live Mail Version 2011 (Build 15.4.3502.0922) in Win7 Ultimate x64
SP1 RC


"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message

At my POE the Help Desk threw me a ticket from a user complaining that his
new Windows 7 (64-bit) system didn't allow him to turn on hibernation. It
turned out that he had the same make and model as the one I use (Latitude
E6510) and I was able to reproduce the problem. The POWERCFG -H ON
command
was accepted without any confirming message to the user...but that's they
way POWERCFG works. I verified that the HIBERFIL.SYS file was not
created.

I found a Microsoft KB article (888575) documenting that for
XP/2003/Vista/2008 hibernation is unavailable for any machine having more
than 4GB of memory - this is a deliberate design specification by
Microsoft.
The article hasn't been updated since April 2008 but it's probably
reasonable to believe that it also applies to Windows 7.

Here's the reason for this posting: both the user and I have systems with
exactly 4 GB of main memory memory (video uses unshared memory). Does
anyone know if there is a known restriction against hibernation for
systems
*at* 4GB as opposed to *more than* 4GB?

So...does anyone know if hibernation is supposed to be available on 64-bit
Windows systems with exactly 4 GB of memory? Has anyone successfully used
hibernation with exactly 4 GB, or with more than 4 GB?

Thanks...

Joe Morris
I have a 4 GB Sony Vaio all-in-one desktop running Windows 7, and there
is a hiberfile on my C: drive.

OTOH, I thought I had hibernation disabled. Also, I installed Win 7 a
while ago, and the date on the hiberfile is 1/11/10 (January 11, not
November 1). Maybe it was created under Vista. But that seems like it
would contradict the restriction you mentioned, since Vista would
probably be affected too.

Just a bit of OT: maybe the 4 GB in the rule is 4 decimal GB, so your 4
binary GB is > than the rule calls for :)

I have to admit that although that was my first though, it was never
meant seriously...

But to be serious:

I ran the command
powercfg -AVAILABLESLEEPSTATES

and got this output:

The following sleep states are available on this system: Standby ( S3 )
Hibernate Hybrid Sleep
The following sleep states are not available on this system:
Standby (S1)
The system firmware does not support this standby state.
Standby (S2)
The system firmware does not support this standby state.

Which leads me to another (possibly more helpful) speculation: is it
possible that your hardware or firmware won't let your computers
hibernate?
 
S

SC Tom

I believe POE is Place Of Employment, as opposed to being Edgar Allen's last
name :)
 
R

R. C. White

?Hi, Char - and Tom.

Thanks. Makes sense. ;^}

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-9/30/10)
Windows Live Mail Version 2011 (Build 15.4.3502.0922) in Win7 Ultimate x64
SP1 RC


"SC Tom" wrote in message
I believe POE is Place Of Employment, as opposed to being Edgar Allen's last
name :)
 
J

Joe Morris

R. C. White said:
(What's a POE, Joe? Point of Embarkation? Port of Entry?)
Place of Employment, as opposed to PPOE (Previous Place of Employment). AKA
the place that keeps me out of the unemployment office.

Joe
 
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G

Gene E. Bloch

?Hi, Gene.


The two Hidden, System files hiberfil.sys and pagefile.sys should always be
dated today, at the time the computer was turned on and Windows was started.
Mine both now read "11/24/10 7:04 AM".

So, perhaps you do have hibernation disabled.
Or perhaps I haven't hibernated my computer since Jan 11...which was
(possibly) when I (or the Win 7 installer?) enabled it.

I *never* use hibernation :)

No particular reason. I just don't.
 
J

Joe Morris

[several people wrote]

<lots of responses to my query>

....to which I say "thanks". Based on comments here it looks like the KB
article saying "no hibernation above 4GB" doesn't apply to Windows 7, which
pretty much puts me back to square one. I'm officially off the clock until
Monday but I'll probably build an out-of-the-box 64Win7 system on the E6510
and start installing drivers and apps to reproduce our standard image until
hibernation breaks (assuming that it works with a vanilla image.)

Computers...a sure cure for any spare time you might have. Also my excuse
for losing hair on top of my head and turning my beard gray after nearly 50
years in the business...it can't be my age...of course not.

Joe Morris
 
R

R. C. White

?Hi, Gene.
I *never* use hibernation :)
Then you may as well delete that dormant file and stop wasting disk space.
As I recall, disabling hibernation does not erase the file; it just stops
using it. If the file does not exist when Win7 wants to hibernate, it
simply creates a new hiberfil.sys, almost as large as the installed RAM, so
that it can store the full contents of memory to be reloaded when it wakes
up from hibernation. The file has Hidden and System attributes, and is
always in the Root of the Boot Volume (typically C:\hiberfil.sys).

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-9/30/10)
Windows Live Mail Version 2011 (Build 15.4.3502.0922) in Win7 Ultimate x64
SP1 RC


"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message

?Hi, Gene.


The two Hidden, System files hiberfil.sys and pagefile.sys should always
be
dated today, at the time the computer was turned on and Windows was
started.
Mine both now read "11/24/10 7:04 AM".

So, perhaps you do have hibernation disabled.
Or perhaps I haven't hibernated my computer since Jan 11...which was
(possibly) when I (or the Win 7 installer?) enabled it.

I *never* use hibernation :)

No particular reason. I just don't.
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

?Hi, Gene.


Then you may as well delete that dormant file and stop wasting disk space.
As I recall, disabling hibernation does not erase the file; it just stops
using it. If the file does not exist when Win7 wants to hibernate, it
simply creates a new hiberfil.sys, almost as large as the installed RAM, so
that it can store the full contents of memory to be reloaded when it wakes
up from hibernation. The file has Hidden and System attributes, and is
always in the Root of the Boot Volume (typically C:\hiberfil.sys).

RC
When I'm down to where that ~2.85 GB matters to me, I'll either take
your advice or buy a new computer :)

If (before deleting it in your reply) you read the report I posted,
you'd see that hibernation is available on this computer. I have no idea
whether that means it's enabled in hardware but not in software, or
enabled in both. If the latter, either installing Win 7 reenabled it, or
my attempt to disable it failed. It doesn't show in the start menu.

Obviously I didn't much care, although at this point it is becoming of
academic interest. Maybe.
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

When I'm down to where that ~2.85 GB matters to me, I'll either take
your advice or buy a new computer :)

If (before deleting it in your reply) you read the report I posted,
you'd see that hibernation is available on this computer. I have no idea
whether that means it's enabled in hardware but not in software, or
enabled in both. If the latter, either installing Win 7 reenabled it, or
my attempt to disable it failed. It doesn't show in the start menu.

Obviously I didn't much care, although at this point it is becoming of
academic interest. Maybe.
I had to do a bit of learning.

I set "hibernate" as the power button action, but it failed to
hibernate. The properties of hiberfile still showed January as the
creation date and the last access date, but the modified date was 10
hours ago (that's what it said on the general tab; the details tab was
more exact). Clearly the computer only slept.

Clever Hans - I rebooted, and this time the modified date was the time
of that reboot. The previous reboot time had been 10 hours ago, of
course.

Now when I tried to hibernate, the hiberfile was indeed modified at the
hibernation time. I tried hibernating a couple more times, but the file
did not get a new modification time.

Just for fun, I also turned hibernation off at the command prompt,
looked at powercfg -a, then turned it back on and looked again at that
status, just so I could see what it looked like...and that procedure
verified for me that when I looked yesterday, hibernation *was* on in
Windows.

Also, after turning hibernation off and on, I now get a very current
creation time for the hiberfile (all three times are identical, for the
moment).
 
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S

smithdoerr

Gene E. Bloch said:
I had to do a bit of learning.

I set "hibernate" as the power button action, but it failed to
hibernate. The properties of hiberfile still showed January as the
creation date and the last access date, but the modified date was 10
hours ago (that's what it said on the general tab; the details tab was
more exact). Clearly the computer only slept.

Clever Hans - I rebooted, and this time the modified date was the time
of that reboot. The previous reboot time had been 10 hours ago, of
course.

Now when I tried to hibernate, the hiberfile was indeed modified at the
hibernation time. I tried hibernating a couple more times, but the file
did not get a new modification time.

Just for fun, I also turned hibernation off at the command prompt,
looked at powercfg -a, then turned it back on and looked again at that
status, just so I could see what it looked like...and that procedure
verified for me that when I looked yesterday, hibernation *was* on in
Windows.

Also, after turning hibernation off and on, I now get a very current
creation time for the hiberfile (all three times are identical, for the
moment).
Do you have hybrid sleep turned On? That might be adding to the confusion
:)
 
J

Joe Morris

Thanks to the crew here that reported successfully using hibernation with
large memory systems (and giving a strong indication that KB888575 does NOT
apply to Windows 7) I was able to abandon testing native Windows for the
problem.

I think I've located the culprit: after building a clean test Windows
installation, installing Pointsec's full disk encryption tool (v7.4)
resulted in the hibernation option being turned off, and while turning it on
again resulted in the (re-)creation of hiberfil.sys, after a few minutes it
was turned off again...and if I try hibernation quickly enough the system
displays the message "Disk hibernation is not allowed on this system" and
the machine goes to sleep.

Perhaps the best part of this conclusion is that I'm not responsible for
Pointsec, so I can regift the Help Desk ticket to someone else for
resolution.

I probably would have found the Pointsec gotcha eventually but y'all helped
do it a bit faster. Happy Thanksgiving!

Joe
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

Do you have hybrid sleep turned On? That might be adding to the confusion
:)
Indeed I do.

The disk activity lights made me think that on those occasions when the
hiberfile was not modified were sleepy times, but I didn't look at the
status of hybrid sleep until you asked :)

This is not a laptop (although as an all-in-one, it's similar to one),
so hibernate and hybrid sleep are not really important to me. I normally
just shut down when I'm going to be away for a significant length of
time, but sometimes I sleep the computer, since I have a script that
will wake the computer from sleep in the wee hours to do a backup.
Still, I usually backup up manually: my backup programs take advantage
of Windows's shadow copying, so I can work safely while backups happen
in the background.

Anyway, since I rarely sleep[1] or hibernate the computer, I pretty much
ignore all the above, so I'm glad you and others keep asking questions
:)

[1] That's to be read "I rarely sleep the computer". I often sleep. Just
sayin'.
 
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P

PeeCee

"Joe Morris" wrote in message
Thanks to the crew here that reported successfully using hibernation with
large memory systems (and giving a strong indication that KB888575 does NOT
apply to Windows 7) I was able to abandon testing native Windows for the
problem.

I think I've located the culprit: after building a clean test Windows
installation, installing Pointsec's full disk encryption tool (v7.4)
resulted in the hibernation option being turned off, and while turning it on
again resulted in the (re-)creation of hiberfil.sys, after a few minutes it
was turned off again...and if I try hibernation quickly enough the system
displays the message "Disk hibernation is not allowed on this system" and
the machine goes to sleep.

Perhaps the best part of this conclusion is that I'm not responsible for
Pointsec, so I can regift the Help Desk ticket to someone else for
resolution.

I probably would have found the Pointsec gotcha eventually but y'all helped
do it a bit faster. Happy Thanksgiving!

Joe



Thanks for the heads up Joe, always interesting to know 'why'
..
Found this page that may explain why hibernation is turned off.
http://www.itbusinessedge.com/cm/blogs/weinschenk/the-very-cold-hard-facts-on-laptop-encryption/?cs=13646
i.e. 'in theory' so Pointsec is covering it's ass.

Best
Paul.
 

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