Win 7 vs Win 8


O

OldGuy

New PC with Win 7 Pro installed and a disk to install Win 8.
Other than the Win 8 start screen that many dislike, what are the real
important differences?

i.e. are some Win 7 things fixed or improved?
new features?

Does the Win 8 install keep all Win 7 installed added apps or do I
start over after upgrading to Win 8?
 
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B

Bob

"OldGuy" wrote in message
New PC with Win 7 Pro installed and a disk to install Win 8.
Other than the Win 8 start screen that many dislike, what are the real
important differences?

i.e. are some Win 7 things fixed or improved?
new features?

Does the Win 8 install keep all Win 7 installed added apps or do I
start over after upgrading to Win 8?

Old Guy,

Download and run the Upgrade Advisor and you'll see exactly what Win8 will
support. Win8 does not support any 16 bit applications (XP era) so if you
have some legacy software you'll need to stick with Win7. Also some 32 bit
programs will need to be updated to be compatible with Win8 (i.e.,
Photoshop, LightRoom, etc.).

I have a PC test system setup with Win8 installed and without the add-on
"Classic Shell" (or other similar add-on's), Win8 will disappoint on a PC
because it was not designed for using a mouse. But wait... there's more!
Win8.1 is coming and I'm sure you've read all the PR about that. That should
make it more PC friendly.

Win8 is fun to use on a tablet and I have a VivoTab that I use everyday.
But to answer your question, as for important differences - what I consider
important may not suit you at all. But its reported to be more secure. You
do not need 3rd party AV software, it has built-in AV. It’s a different
breed of OS and you need to get some hands-on in order to make your own
determinations.

May want to consider configuring a dual-boot configuration and have it all
on the same system so you can see if it works for you. I still have Win7 on
my main workstation but will upgrade it to Win8.1 later this year.

BobS
 
B

BillW50

Download and run the Upgrade Advisor and you'll see exactly what Win8
will support. Win8 does not support any 16 bit applications (XP era) so
if you have some legacy software you'll need to stick with Win7...
Nonsense! I run 16 bit DOS programs under Windows 8 Pro (32 bit) all of
the time.
 
P

Paul

BillW50 said:
Nonsense! I run 16 bit DOS programs under Windows 8 Pro (32 bit) all of
the time.
The x64 version doesn't run 16 bit programs. It only has a WOW
subsystem capable of running 32 bit programs.

It is the x86 (32 bit) version of the OS, that can still handle
16 bit programs, via the appropriate Windows on Windows subsystem.

So if you had a collection of archaic program installers (some
32 bit programs use 16 bit installers), then perhaps the 32 bit
version of the OS would be a better choice.

*******

The two versions of WOW.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WOW64

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_on_Windows

Paul
 
B

Bob Henson

OldGuy said:
New PC with Win 7 Pro installed and a disk to install Win 8.
Other than the Win 8 start screen that many dislike, what are the real
important differences?

i.e. are some Win 7 things fixed or improved?
new features?

Does the Win 8 install keep all Win 7 installed added apps or do I
start over after upgrading to Win 8?
On a desktop or a laptop I have yet to see any advantages - now hear of any
from anyone else. Apart from the start screen, there are quite a few things
missing (or ruined - like Internet Explorer 10 run from Metro) from Windows
7 and nothing that is better - so it strikes me as singularly pointless in
using it for the sake of it.
 
S

Steve Hayes

The x64 version doesn't run 16 bit programs. It only has a WOW
subsystem capable of running 32 bit programs.
I had exactly the same problem with the 64-bit version of Win 7. Fortu nately
my laptop came with the 32-bit version on DVD, which I installed pronto.
 
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D

Darklight

"OldGuy" wrote in message
New PC with Win 7 Pro installed and a disk to install Win 8.
Other than the Win 8 start screen that many dislike, what are the real
important differences?

i.e. are some Win 7 things fixed or improved?
new features?

Does the Win 8 install keep all Win 7 installed added apps or do I
start over after upgrading to Win 8?

Old Guy,

Download and run the Upgrade Advisor and you'll see exactly what Win8
will support. Win8 does not support any 16 bit applications (XP era) so
if you have some legacy software you'll need to stick with Win7. Also
some 32 bit programs will need to be updated to be compatible with Win8
(i.e., Photoshop, LightRoom, etc.).

I have a PC test system setup with Win8 installed and without the add-on
"Classic Shell" (or other similar add-on's), Win8 will disappoint on a
PC because it was not designed for using a mouse.
That's rubbish i use the metro interface with mouse and keyboard and
find in some instances it is faster then using the classic menu and
desktop icons.

You just have not learned to use the metro interface yet.
 
P

Paul

OldGuy said:
i.e. are some Win 7 things fixed or improved?
new features?
Most people end up so repulsed by the GUI, they're in no mood
to look for improvements behind the scenes.

Yes, it can be a second or two faster on some things.

But, it also has some annoying behaviors you might not have
seen on other OSes. For example, it has enough things going
on in the background, it's making my E8400 dual core feel *slow*.
How much more CPU do I need to buy ???

I guess on balance, I'd have to say they cancel out. The
glitchy behavior of the desktop, makes it a bit less
consistent for interactive work (like the occasional flashing
of the desktop, as if the video driver is restarting). The
underlying scheduler improvements, or memory management changes,
would be good by themselves... if the rest of the interface
hadn't changed for the worse.

It's one of the reasons Win8 is collecting dust inside a
120GB hard drive here. I plug in the drive occasionally, if an
experiment needs to be run. But, it's not my everyday
OS. And as near as I can tell, from the 8.1 feature
announcements, there's nothing to look forward to
there, that's going to change a damn thing.

Thank God it only cost $39.95. That's what I tell myself.

Paul
 
T

Tim Slattery

Download and run the Upgrade Advisor and you'll see exactly what Win8 will
support. Win8 does not support any 16 bit applications
That's true only for the 64-bit version, the same as Vista and Win7.
It's a tradeoff you have to make in order to use more than 4GB of RAM.
 
D

Dave

New PC with Win 7 Pro installed and a disk to install Win 8.
Other than the Win 8 start screen that many dislike, what are the real
important differences?

i.e. are some Win 7 things fixed or improved?
new features?

Does the Win 8 install keep all Win 7 installed added apps or do I
start over after upgrading to Win 8?
In the interest of full disclosure, I do not have windows 8. I am what
they call a 'handy helper' in my old age, that involves helping older folk
(even more aged than myself) with anything from hooking up a dvd player to
their tv, to fixing computer problems.
On the few occasions when such a user have windows 8, I find the
experience frustrating to say the least. To find things like shutdown, you
wave the mouse in the general direction of where you are supposed to wave
it, and if it's your lucky day something will appear where it is supposed
to appear. If you are even luckier, it will stick around long enough for
you to select what you want and click before you have to start the whole
process over.
Now you will read howls of protest from those who like the thing correctly
pointing out that I am clueless and all will be well after a few months
practice. That may be true, but since the days of PC's and MSDOS thru' my
current windows 7 professional I've always seemed to manage.
Windows 7 professional is in my opinion the best windows to date. It comes
with virtual machine which should help with software that doesn't like the
64 bit version. I deliberately specified 7 vs 8 on a new machine purchased
last December. I never upgrade systems, what comes with the system works
well and I'll move up if and when I purchase a new model.
MS and others need to figure out that a desktop machine is not a tablet
and need not share the same user interface.
 
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S

Seth

Bob said:
Download and run the Upgrade Advisor and you'll see exactly what Win8 will
support. Win8 does not support any 16 bit applications (XP era) so if you
have some legacy software you'll need to stick with Win7. Also some 32
bit programs will need to be updated to be compatible with Win8 (i.e.,
Photoshop, LightRoom, etc.).
That's not a Win7 vs. Win8 issue. That's a 64bit vs. 32bit issue. Neither
OS in 64bit will (directly) support 16bit software. Windows 8 32bit has the
same 16bit support as Windows 7 32bit.
 
O

OldGuy

JJ wrote :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_8

All in details, including those that aren't provided by Microsoft.
Great resource. Thanks!
I see many pros for Win 8 but I am thinking I will wait until 8.1 and
see if that is "easier" for me.
I do not plan on a touch screen for a desktop so metro seems
unnecessary to me, maybe for a laptop but I hate fingerprints all over
the screen.
And in my case I do not have to worry about ladies and hand lotion.
They are not allowed near my PCs.
 
K

Ken Blake

Windows 7 professional is in my opinion the best windows to date.

So you think that Windows 7 Professional is better than Windows 7
Ultimate?

And how can you have the opinion that Windows 7 (any edition) is
better than Windows 8, when you have little or no experience with
Windows 8? I'm not trying to convince you that Windows 8 is better,
but you can't have a valid opinion that a Ford is better than a
Chevrolet if you don't have experience with both.

It comes
with virtual machine which should help with software that doesn't like the
64 bit version. I deliberately specified 7 vs 8 on a new machine purchased
last December. I never upgrade systems, what comes with the system works
well and I'll move up if and when I purchase a new model.
MS and others need to figure out that a desktop machine is not a tablet
and need not share the same user interface.

I agree that a desktop machine is not a tablet and need not share the
same user interface.. But bear in mind that Windows 8 comes with two
interfaces, not one: the metro/modern interface and the desktop
interface, which is almost identical to Windows 7's interface, and
with the addition of a third party program (either free or very
expensive) can be made to be identical. You can run use either
interface exclusively, or you can easily switch back and forth between
them. Since I use Windows 8 on a desktop, not a tablet, I use the
desktop interface almost exclusively.

So essentially Microsoft *has* figured out that "a desktop machine is
not a tablet and need not share the same user interface," and has
therefore provided appropriate and different interfaces for both.

Has Microsoft done a great job of this? No, in my opinion that
haven't. If they had, a third-party program wouldn't be required to
improve the desktop interface and make it more like Windows 7's. But
on the other hand, adding the third-party program is very easy and
either free or very inexpensive, and the result makes Windows 8 a very
good product.
 
P

philo  

I had exactly the same problem with the 64-bit version of Win 7. Fortu nately
my laptop came with the 32-bit version on DVD, which I installed pronto.

I installed the 64 bit version of Win7 on wife's machine and would
advise it for many reasons...especially of one wants to use more than 4
gigs of RAM

In a virtual machine I then installed win98 to run the one 16 bit
application I wanted to use
 
S

Steve Hayes

I installed the 64 bit version of Win7 on wife's machine and would
advise it for many reasons...especially of one wants to use more than 4
gigs of RAM
Before giving advice, it is advisable to determine the needs of those you are
advising.

Your advice would be highly misleading in my case, since the 64-bit version
wouldn't run the programs I use most frequently, which don't require 4 gigs of
RAM.
 
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G

Gene E. Bloch

Before giving advice, it is advisable to determine the needs of those you are
advising.

Your advice would be highly misleading in my case, since the 64-bit version
wouldn't run the programs I use most frequently, which don't require 4 gigs of
RAM.
Here's what I would have said:

Before taking advice, it is important to evaluate it in terms of your
needs.
 
P

Paul

Dave said:
In the interest of full disclosure, I do not have windows 8. I am what
they call a 'handy helper' in my old age, that involves helping older folk
(even more aged than myself) with anything from hooking up a dvd player to
their tv, to fixing computer problems.
On the few occasions when such a user have windows 8, I find the
experience frustrating to say the least. To find things like shutdown, you
wave the mouse in the general direction of where you are supposed to wave
it, and if it's your lucky day something will appear where it is supposed
to appear. If you are even luckier, it will stick around long enough for
you to select what you want and click before you have to start the whole
process over.
Now you will read howls of protest from those who like the thing correctly
pointing out that I am clueless and all will be well after a few months
practice. That may be true, but since the days of PC's and MSDOS thru' my
current windows 7 professional I've always seemed to manage.
Windows 7 professional is in my opinion the best windows to date. It comes
with virtual machine which should help with software that doesn't like the
64 bit version. I deliberately specified 7 vs 8 on a new machine purchased
last December. I never upgrade systems, what comes with the system works
well and I'll move up if and when I purchase a new model.
MS and others need to figure out that a desktop machine is not a tablet
and need not share the same user interface.
Well, I'm going to address this differently than Ken did.

First off, if you're helping others with their Windows 8,
it is possible to get third party tools to aid with it.
If the user is experienced with Windows, they may have a
bias for the old GUI elements. In which case, you can try
something like ClassicShell. A very nice piece of work, I
tested on the Preview versions of Windows 8.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Start_Menu_replacements_for_Windows_8

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_Shell

http://www.classicshell.net/images/startmenu1.png

Show them a picture of what it looks like first, so
they know what they're getting. Don't just install it and
walk away.

ClassicShell will not remove all the rough edges. Clicking
on the wrong data types, is still going to push the user
into a Metro tool interface, from which they may not
escape without help from a trusty assistant. But the
presence of menus, will make them feel at least some
of it is familiar territory (for an experienced user).

*******

As for the views about first experiences with a new GUI,
everyone has a valid opinion. Why is that ? Because the
essence of good GUI design, is making something that
anyone can operate. If even one user cannot operate the
product, and stops in frustration, then the design is a
failure.

As an example, look at public washrooms. To be language
neutral, they put a specific icon, one for the ladies and
one for the gents bathroom. If the icon was poorly formed,
or did not immediately suggest which facility was which,
we would have the embarrassing failure of someone going
into the wrong one by accident. (This actually happened
to me at work, when visiting one of our office building
I'd never been to before, and I kept looking at those
damn icons, and still couldn't figure out which was which.)
So depending on exactly which version of icon the
facilities people fit to the door, some of them
are abject failures.

At Microsoft, they would have had the time and manpower,
to do focus group studies, see how elements of various
interface choices are discovered by the users, and so on.
So from a purely technical perspective, you can evaluate
any prototype interfaces, for performance. If any users
"don't get it", that's a serious issue, and should be
fixed right away. In a test setup, you take video recordings
of their face and eyes, as well as instrumenting the time
in milliseconds, when they clicked a mouse, or moved a cursor.
All of this, gives evidence as to what is wrong with
the interface.

In the past, we had analogies, like "trash can" and "file
cabinet". It always puts a smile on my face, when I consider
exactly how many OSes I've evaluated (Linux included), where
9 times out of 10, the trash can is an easier entrance
to the file system, than the file cabinet is. That's
an example of an interface failure, that I've grown to live
with. I relish the thought of "searching for a trash can"
so I can "find the file explorer".

So to me, when someone (non-troll at least) comes along, and
makes a valid criticism of the learning curve for
a new GUI, I just shake my head and think of the
focus group and design work, that should have prevented
this in the first place.

There was a famous video, of an older gentleman, placed
in front of a Windows 8 screen. And we got to watch
as he waved the mouse cursor around, in an natural
attempt to explore the environment, and "find the
hidden treasure". The look on the guy's face was
priceless. (Sure, it could have been staged, but
the "deer in the headlights" look, is unmistakable).
These are all things that should be caught and addressed
early in the design cycle, not as some video on Youtube.
Microsoft should have been looking at the video of
the faces of its focus group participants, for a hint.

Paul
 
W

...winston

"Dave" wrote in message To find things like shutdown, you wave the mouse in the general
direction of where you are supposed to wave it, and if it's you're
lucky day something will appear where it is supposed to appear.
While one can wave the mouse to access the Charms for shutdown, for most point and click is a lot easier.
- Click their user tile picture (upper right Start Menu), sign out, then click the Shutdown (Power button icon) option lower left.
 
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B

Bob Henson

Dave said:
In the interest of full disclosure, I do not have windows 8. I am what
they call a 'handy helper' in my old age, that involves helping older folk
(even more aged than myself) with anything from hooking up a dvd player to
their tv, to fixing computer problems.
I do exactly similar for a local charity.
On the few occasions when such a user have windows 8, I find the
experience frustrating to say the least. To find things like shutdown, you
wave the mouse in the general direction of where you are supposed to wave
it, and if it's your lucky day something will appear where it is supposed
to appear. If you are even luckier, it will stick around long enough for
you to select what you want and click before you have to start the whole
process over.
As the only one of our group who has been foolish enough to use Windows 8,
I get handed all the Windows 8 folks whose children have kindly but
thoughtlessly specified Windows 8 on the laptops they have bought for their
elderly parents. They cannot use them, of course - you would have to be
psychic to use Windows 8 "first rattle out of the box". I immediately do
everything possible to remove any traces of Metro (or whatever euphemism
Microsoft is currently using to pretend it is no longer a problem) from
the machine, and then we get on fine. Well, more or less fine, until one
of them find how to start up Internet Explorer 10 from the Metro app, then
chaos reigns for a while again.
Now you will read howls of protest from those who like the thing correctly
pointing out that I am clueless and all will be well after a few months
practice. That may be true, but since the days of PC's and MSDOS thru' my
current windows 7 professional I've always seemed to manage.
Windows 7 professional is in my opinion the best windows to date.
I have never had much problem moving, like you, from DOS through the
various versions of Windows. When XP came along it was a huge improvement
and I enjoyed the new experience. When Windows 7 came along the same
applied, it was so much better I enjoyed having to learn a few new ways of
doing things. I actually quite like change and novelty, providing it has
some discernable advantage over the old way. Windows 8 is the next in the
line including Windows ME and Vista that fall into the "no discernable
advantage, and a lot of disadvantages" category and will remain a
retrograde step until replaced.


--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England

If a man stands in the middle of the forest speaking and there is no woman
around to hear him, is he still wrong?
 

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