Win 7 and XP mixed network

[z]

At least spell "lackey" correctly.

I stand corrected. I've enabled the spell checker in my newsreader.

 

[Char Jackson]

At least spell "lackey" correctly.

I'm pretty sure Microsoft isn't spelled with a dollar sign, too. ;-)

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 19:20:36 -0800, Gene E. Bloch

I'm pretty sure Microsoft isn't spelled with a dollar sign, too. ;-)

Ye$, I think $o too.

Doing that i$ a $ure way to make the po$ter lo$e credibility in my
eye$.

 

[z]

Ye$, I think $o too.

Doing that i$ a $ure way to make the po$ter lo$e credibility in my
eye$.

Ah, missing the point completely.

 

[Char Jackson]

Ye$, I think $o too.

Doing that i$ a $ure way to make the po$ter lo$e credibility in my
eye$.

Richie Rich, is that you?

 

[...winston]

"John Williamson" wrote in message

The LLTD doesn't do 'networking'...it's presence on XP allows Vista/Win7 to draw a map (in the Vista/Win7 network topology
section of Vista/Win7) of the connected computers so XP appears on said map.

That would explain why some posters are having no problems at all, and
others are having problems.

I installed using XP SP2 upgrade media, and needed to manually install
it, despite having updated to SP3.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

===
Hello John,
I need to correct that statement about XPSp3 inclusion. Thus it does not explain why some are having problems and others aren't.
Before correcting myself let me reiterate. The LLTD has nothing to do with networking amongst XP-Vista-Win7 systems...it only
provides Vista/Win7 (Network and Sharing Center -View Map option) the ability to include XP computers when drawing a map of
networked computer.

Now for the correction.
XPSp3 full/retail/OEM RTM does/did not include the LLTD.
Others have correctly stated that is obtained (for XPSp3) via an available hotfix. Once installed a networked Vista/Win7 will be
able to show the XP system when 'viewing the network map').

The LLTD download file was released pre SP3 (all five versions) thus only compatible for installation on SP2....attempting to
install it on Sp3 will yield an error informing the user something akin to '...later Service Pack level is present/installation not
necessary etc.' due to it being coded to look for XPSp2.

There are other ways to skin a cat on an XPSp3 system without the need for the hotfix using the downloadable Sp2 file and a good
part of the reason why I erroneously thought it was on my full XPSp3 install. Shortly after my earlier post I realized I didn't
use the Hotfix but did have the LTTD installed (since my Win7 included it when drawing its topology map of networked pcs).

A look in my archives yielded the method I used on a clean install of XPSp3 full version for the LLTD. I chose that route since I
already had the files handy - extracted/archived long before the Hotfix ever became available (as noted in the thread, the LLTD for
XP vs. Vista/Win7 is age-old repetitive discussion)... in my case, having the files I didn't need to perform steps 1 or 2 or use
the hotfix....but here's the full step-by-step.

===
1. Download the KB
http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=5577
2. Extract it to a folder: (example)
WindowsXP-KB922120-v5-x86-ENU.exe -x C:\LLTD
3. Copy the following files to the respective folder
C:\WINDOWS\inf
rspndr.inf
rspndr.adm
rspndr.PNF

C:\WINDOWS\system32
rspndr.exe

C:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers
rspndr.sys
4. Open a command prompt, change to the C:\windows\system32 folder
5. At the command prompt enter the following (once entered press the Return Key)
rspndr.exe -i
6. Restart Windows (optional)

Comments: iirc the 3 files in the inf folder are not really necessary, but are installed/included with the XPSp2 LLTD download file

Fyi.
a. If anyone wants those 5 files in a single zip file, go here -> http://tinyurl.com/7gqbogo
b. Optionally, one can request the Hotfix. MSFT will provide an email link to download it, download and use 7Zip to extract the
executable (it's version 6), then double click the exe file to install the LLTD on XpSp3.

 

[John Williamson]

"John Williamson" wrote in message


That would explain why some posters are having no problems at all, and
others are having problems.

I installed using XP SP2 upgrade media, and needed to manually install
it, despite having updated to SP3.

As you replied below my sigsep, your post is copied below:-

Hello John,
I need to correct that statement about XPSp3 inclusion. Thus it does not
explain why some are having problems and others aren't.
Before correcting myself let me reiterate. The LLTD has nothing to do
with networking amongst XP-Vista-Win7 systems...it only
provides Vista/Win7 (Network and Sharing Center -View Map option) the
ability to include XP computers when drawing a map of
networked computer.

/Which was the problem I had./

Now for the correction.
XPSp3 full/retail/OEM RTM does/did not include the LLTD.
Others have correctly stated that is obtained (for XPSp3) via an
available hotfix. Once installed a networked Vista/Win7 will be able to
show the XP system when 'viewing the network map').

The LLTD download file was released pre SP3 (all five versions) thus
only compatible for installation on SP2....attempting to install it on
Sp3 will yield an error informing the user something akin to '...later
Service Pack level is present/installation not necessary etc.' due to it
being coded to look for XPSp2.

/Which is what I found. The problem I had is that when you go to the
Microsoft download site, the only version that's easily found is the SP2
version, which refuses to install under SP3./

There are other ways to skin a cat on an XPSp3 system without the need
for the hotfix using the downloadable Sp2 file and a good part of the
reason why I erroneously thought it was on my full XPSp3 install.
Shortly after my earlier post I realized I didn't use the Hotfix but did
have the LTTD installed (since my Win7 included it when drawing its
topology map of networked pcs).

A look in my archives yielded the method I used on a clean install of
XPSp3 full version for the LLTD. I chose that route since I already had
the files handy - extracted/archived long before the Hotfix ever became
available (as noted in the thread, the LLTD for XP vs. Vista/Win7 is
age-old repetitive discussion)... in my case, having the files I didn't
need to perform steps 1 or 2 or use the hotfix....but here's the full
step-by-step.

===
1. Download the KB
http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=5577
2. Extract it to a folder: (example)
WindowsXP-KB922120-v5-x86-ENU.exe -x C:\LLTD
3. Copy the following files to the respective folder
C:\WINDOWS\inf
rspndr.inf
rspndr.adm
rspndr.PNF

C:\WINDOWS\system32
rspndr.exe

C:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers
rspndr.sys
4. Open a command prompt, change to the C:\windows\system32 folder
5. At the command prompt enter the following (once entered press the
Return Key)
rspndr.exe -i
6. Restart Windows (optional)

Comments: iirc the 3 files in the inf folder are not really necessary,
but are installed/included with the XPSp2 LLTD download file

Fyi.
a. If anyone wants those 5 files in a single zip file, go here ->
http://tinyurl.com/7gqbogo
b. Optionally, one can request the Hotfix. MSFT will provide an email
link to download it, download and use 7Zip to extract the executable
(it's version 6), then double click the exe file to install the LLTD on
XpSp3.


/Which is exactly the procedure I used in the end, but had forgotten the
details. Thank you for that./

 

[Ken Blake]

I'm pretty sure Microsoft isn't spelled with a dollar sign, too. ;-)

Not to mention that "quietly" has a "u" in it.

 

[John Ferrell]

LLTD installed but Machine still not networking properly.
I have real work to do, I will be able to read the responses and try
more fixes from this thread. If that does not work I will try a new OS
from my original and start with SP2 patches. If that does not work I
will clone the other machine and see if I can change the ID to this
machine's license...

When I get done with this machine, I still have the laptop to deal
with.
For now, I cannot give up the time to read the rest of the posts!

There are multiple methods to locate devices on the network.

This article shows how to prevent some of the legacy paths.
Remove "Client for Microsoft Networks", hobble NetBIOS, and so on.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/837030

This article hints at some of the avenues open to Windows 7,
to detect the presence of devices (more than just computers
with shares though). Complexity like this is fine... as long
as it always works properly. And that's what some people here
are complaining about, that the job was not well done. Sure,
you can screw around with it, until you get it working, but that's
not why we pay the big bucks for a "new" OS. Microsoft appears
to have put the appropriate fall-back paths in their software,
but the quality just isn't there (it should work, but it doesn't).

http://blogs.technet.com/b/networki...covery-network-resources.aspx?Redirected=true

If LLTD wasn't really essential, then this stuff would always work,
and it doesn't. I've seen it here. Non-reproducible behavior,
which is not modified by boot order (you can boot the WinXP machine
first, or the Win 7 machine first, and the behavior doesn't change.)

I'm not going to whine about it - it's about the same quality
as any other OS. For example, in Linux, if you didn't install
SAMBA/CIFS or whatever, you might never see a dialog suitable for
making connections to a Windows share. No OS is perfect, when it comes
to getting the details right. The user has to figure out what is missing,
and correct it.

The proof it can be done right, is the existence of third party
tools like "Network Magic". It's proof that if you put enough effort
into it, you can make it work. Not that I'm going to spend
good money on it.

Paul

John Ferrell W8CCW

 

[Char Jackson]

LLTD installed but Machine still not networking properly.

As others have said, LLTD is not required in order to network XP and
Win 7. Inter-OS networking works just fine without it.

I have a feeling this is going to come down to whatever your
definition of "not networking properly" means. All I know so far is
that it means something different to you than it does to me.

I have real work to do, I will be able to read the responses and try
more fixes from this thread. If that does not work I will try a new OS
from my original and start with SP2 patches. If that does not work I
will clone the other machine and see if I can change the ID to this
machine's license...

Totally ridiculous, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

When I get done with this machine, I still have the laptop to deal
with.

Laptop, too? You seem to be generally bad at networking.

 

[...winston]

Please read the entire thread.

LLTD does nothing to support file and folder sharing across machines on a network.
As noted earlier, the presence of the LLTD on XP (sp2 or sp3) allows Vista or Win7 to show the XP machine on a system generated
graphic....nothing else.
- that map is a topology (topographical display) of the networked computers.
- The LLTD is a 'responder'
- The "T' in LLTD stands for Topology
- The LLTD installs a file called rspndr.sys. If the LLTD is installed on XP then it broadcasts its presence (responds to a
Vista/XP request) allowing Vista/Win7 to display XP on the Vista/Win7 topographical display (graphical map)

Networking of machines is handled separately
- On XP, at least one file/folder must be shared
- On Vista/Win7 the Public folder by default is automatically shared though Networking discovery and file/folder should be enabled.

The simplest way to share across XP and Win7
On XP:
a. configure XP to share folders (one or more)
b. turn Simple file sharing off (best used only with XP to XP)
c. if a printer is connected directly to the XP machine (if desired configure it to be shared in Windows and the printer's
properties)
On Vista/Win7:
c. enable Network Discovery
d. do not use Homegroup (it only applies to Win7 to Win7 machines)
e. enable file and printer sharing
f. enable Public folder sharing
On Both (all) units:
g. configure all machines with the same Windows user profile name and password whether used on all machines or not.
h. ensure all machines have the same 'Workgroup' name
Supplemental Hardware:
i. configure router DHCP server to dispense the appropriate number of ip addresses using Dynamic (if using Wifi ensure the correct
security encryption is consistent for the router and the wifi'd pcs
j. any other applicable router setting (e.g. in lieu of DHCP dynamic use DHCP Static to assign a specific/same ip address to the
specific mac address of pc on the intended network)
k. Ensure (if not using Windows Firewall) that no conflicts exist between your chosen Firewall and if present the Router's built-in
Firewall settings.
l. Determine whether or not you need to enable/disable UPNP on your router


--
....winston
msft mvp mail


"John Ferrell" wrote in message
LLTD installed but Machine still not networking properly.
I have real work to do, I will be able to read the responses and try
more fixes from this thread. If that does not work I will try a new OS
from my original and start with SP2 patches. If that does not work I
will clone the other machine and see if I can change the ID to this
machine's license...

When I get done with this machine, I still have the laptop to deal
with.
For now, I cannot give up the time to read the rest of the posts!

There are multiple methods to locate devices on the network.

This article shows how to prevent some of the legacy paths.
Remove "Client for Microsoft Networks", hobble NetBIOS, and so on.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/837030

This article hints at some of the avenues open to Windows 7,
to detect the presence of devices (more than just computers
with shares though). Complexity like this is fine... as long
as it always works properly. And that's what some people here
are complaining about, that the job was not well done. Sure,
you can screw around with it, until you get it working, but that's
not why we pay the big bucks for a "new" OS. Microsoft appears
to have put the appropriate fall-back paths in their software,
but the quality just isn't there (it should work, but it doesn't).

http://blogs.technet.com/b/networki...covery-network-resources.aspx?Redirected=true

If LLTD wasn't really essential, then this stuff would always work,
and it doesn't. I've seen it here. Non-reproducible behavior,
which is not modified by boot order (you can boot the WinXP machine
first, or the Win 7 machine first, and the behavior doesn't change.)

I'm not going to whine about it - it's about the same quality
as any other OS. For example, in Linux, if you didn't install
SAMBA/CIFS or whatever, you might never see a dialog suitable for
making connections to a Windows share. No OS is perfect, when it comes
to getting the details right. The user has to figure out what is missing,
and correct it.

The proof it can be done right, is the existence of third party
tools like "Network Magic". It's proof that if you put enough effort
into it, you can make it work. Not that I'm going to spend
good money on it.

Paul

John Ferrell W8CCW

 

[John Ferrell]

OK, I found enough time to get through the thread. It contains a
mixture of good info, trolls and noise but I can handle the trolls &
the noise if there is only an pinch of help in the mix. LLTD don't fix
my problems.

It would help a lot if I knew just what was necessary for my Network
to come to life. XP to XP is not working for one machine. I guess I
need to go over there and work a while. Remote Console & ping works
anywhere to anywhere. The affected machine(s) have no ill behavior
other than networking. I did notice this morning that an afflicted
machine takes several minutes to respond to "My Network Places".

I will assume it is pinging a list and waiting for timeouts until I
have a better symptom.

I have installed a NAS hard drive and now everyone can talk to
everyone through it. May be I will just give up on MS networking. If
Linux likes the NAS I will be able to junk SAMBA as well.

It took me a while to understand what you were saying. It did appear
to install the LLT. I am out of time for the moment, will continue
later...
Thanks, even if it don't solve my problem I have learned a bit more!

John Ferrell W8CCW

John Ferrell W8CCW

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Ah, missing the point completely.

Why do you think you're missing the point?

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 20:50:10 -0800, Gene E. Bloch

Richie Rich, is that you?

No, it's me, Bloch.

You should recognize my off-the-wall jokes by now

Except I think I might have missed your point. I better Google before I
hit send.

Aha! Ri¢hie Ri¢h. First hit!

There are areas where I am quite ignorant - or perhaps I just lack
common cents

 

[Char Jackson]

Why do you think you're missing the point?

Maybe you were $imply too $ubtle the fir$t
time.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 15:49:06 -0800, Gene E. Bloch

Maybe you were $imply too $ubtle the fir$t
time.

Fir$t time anyone ha$ ever called me $ubtle. Thank$!

 

[Char Jackson]

No, it's me, Bloch.

You should recognize my off-the-wall jokes by now

Except I think I might have missed your point. I better Google before I
hit send.

Aha! Ri¢hie Ri¢h. First hit!

There are areas where I am quite ignorant - or perhaps I just lack
common cents

Yeah, sorry, a bit of pop culture there, but I thought I was safe
because it's sort of from your era, or so it seemed.

23 skidoo!

 

[Char Jackson]

Fir$t time anyone ha$ ever called me $ubtle. Thank$!

I feel ri¢her for having parti¢ipated in thi$ thread.

(But my $pell ¢he¢ker doe$n't agree.)

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 15:54:07 -0800, Gene E. Bloch

Yeah, sorry, a bit of pop culture there, but I thought I was safe
because it's sort of from your era, or so it seemed.

23 skidoo!

There was just a little ceremony in my area honoring Tony Bennett for
"I Left My Heart in San Francisco".

Hint: my era precedes that.

Although come to think of it, my era is continuing as we speak

 

[John Ferrell]

Thanks for the information. I will pursue this and report back.
I will also do a better job of defining the problem.

Please read the entire thread.

LLTD does nothing to support file and folder sharing across machines on a network.
As noted earlier, the presence of the LLTD on XP (sp2 or sp3) allows Vista or Win7 to show the XP machine on a system generated
graphic....nothing else.
- that map is a topology (topographical display) of the networked computers.
- The LLTD is a 'responder'
- The "T' in LLTD stands for Topology
- The LLTD installs a file called rspndr.sys. If the LLTD is installed on XP then it broadcasts its presence (responds to a
Vista/XP request) allowing Vista/Win7 to display XP on the Vista/Win7 topographical display (graphical map)

Networking of machines is handled separately
- On XP, at least one file/folder must be shared
- On Vista/Win7 the Public folder by default is automatically shared though Networking discovery and file/folder should be enabled.

The simplest way to share across XP and Win7
On XP:
a. configure XP to share folders (one or more)
b. turn Simple file sharing off (best used only with XP to XP)
c. if a printer is connected directly to the XP machine (if desired configure it to be shared in Windows and the printer's
properties)
On Vista/Win7:
c. enable Network Discovery
d. do not use Homegroup (it only applies to Win7 to Win7 machines)
e. enable file and printer sharing
f. enable Public folder sharing
On Both (all) units:
g. configure all machines with the same Windows user profile name and password whether used on all machines or not.
h. ensure all machines have the same 'Workgroup' name
Supplemental Hardware:
i. configure router DHCP server to dispense the appropriate number of ip addresses using Dynamic (if using Wifi ensure the correct
security encryption is consistent for the router and the wifi'd pcs
j. any other applicable router setting (e.g. in lieu of DHCP dynamic use DHCP Static to assign a specific/same ip address to the
specific mac address of pc on the intended network)
k. Ensure (if not using Windows Firewall) that no conflicts exist between your chosen Firewall and if present the Router's built-in
Firewall settings.
l. Determine whether or not you need to enable/disable UPNP on your router

John Ferrell W8CCW