Windows update problem

[Panic]

A few days ago when I hit Shut Down the Win shutdown was delayed and a
notice appeared that it was in the process of making 11 Win 7 updates and
not to remove power or manually shutdown. In the evening, after a few
hours of it apparently hanging up on #1 of 11, I went to bed. The next
morning it was still hanging on #1 update. I finally had to remove power to
my computer. On reboot I got the warning of improper shutdown and did I
wish to use Safe Mode or Normal boot. I chose normal boot and it did boot
up.

I manually used Windows Update, selected all 11 updates, and it worked OK.
Just thought I'd enter my experience with that update for general
information.

 

[Jason]

A few days ago when I hit Shut Down the Win shutdown was delayed and a
notice appeared that it was in the process of making 11 Win 7 updates and
not to remove power or manually shutdown. In the evening, after a few
hours of it apparently hanging up on #1 of 11, I went to bed. The next
morning it was still hanging on #1 update. I finally had to remove power to
my computer. On reboot I got the warning of improper shutdown and did I
wish to use Safe Mode or Normal boot. I chose normal boot and it did boot
up.

I manually used Windows Update, selected all 11 updates, and it worked OK.
Just thought I'd enter my experience with that update for general
information.

Same here :-(

 

[Joe Morris]

Same here :-(

As a data item we see that across the Windows 7 systems at my POE...not
every time we install updates (and we use a third-party tool instead of
Windows Update) and not on every machine.

It's irritating, but so far it seems to be harmless. The guidance I have
the Help Desk give to the users is that if it sits at the "do not turn off
your computer" message for more than a minute, and the disk activity light
blinks every second or so, it's safe to force a power-down.

Unfortunately, the problem isn't repeatable on demand. I strongly suspect
that there's a race condition leading to a deadlock; this would be
consistent with my NEVER having seen the problem on any of the numerous Win7
systems I run as virtual machines under VMware Workstation even though they
have the same configuration as my standard image.

The prime candidate for the trigger - at least for my POE - is the Symantec
antivirus product. It's got hooks in all sorts of odd places, and could
either be itself at fault, or be confused by some other program's
misbehavior.

Joe

 

[Jason]

Same here :-(

As a data item we see that across the Windows 7 systems at my POE...not
every time we install updates (and we use a third-party tool instead of
Windows Update) and not on every machine.

It's irritating, but so far it seems to be harmless. The guidance I have
the Help Desk give to the users is that if it sits at the "do not turn off
your computer" message for more than a minute, and the disk activity light
blinks every second or so, it's safe to force a power-down.

Unfortunately, the problem isn't repeatable on demand. I strongly suspect
that there's a race condition leading to a deadlock; this would be
consistent with my NEVER having seen the problem on any of the numerous Win7
systems I run as virtual machines under VMware Workstation even though they
have the same configuration as my standard image.

The prime candidate for the trigger - at least for my POE - is the Symantec
antivirus product. It's got hooks in all sorts of odd places, and could
either be itself at fault, or be confused by some other program's
misbehavior.

Joe[/QUOTE]

I hit the switch after I saw no disk activity for a while... and I'm
running Symantec AV! I rebooted in Normal mode (skipped the Repair
business) and all's well (apparently).

Fair to say, though, that I've experience fewer issues of this sort with
more recent Windows versions (Vista included!). I guess 20 years is
almost enough to mostly get it right...

 

[Robert Baer]

A few days ago when I hit Shut Down the Win shutdown was delayed and a
notice appeared that it was in the process of making 11 Win 7 updates
and not to remove power or manually shutdown. In the evening, after a
few hours of it apparently hanging up on #1 of 11, I went to bed. The
next morning it was still hanging on #1 update. I finally had to remove
power to my computer. On reboot I got the warning of improper shutdown
and did I wish to use Safe Mode or Normal boot. I chose normal boot and
it did boot up.

I manually used Windows Update, selected all 11 updates, and it worked
OK. Just thought I'd enter my experience with that update for general
information.

You are damn lucky.
One time, when using Marriott Hotel's (residents access) computers, i
was kicked off a number of times during the day for Automatic Windows
Update - and one of the times it indicated over ONE HUNDRED of the damn
things were stacked up!!!
Eight hours later, it was still "updating".
PITFA.
Turn off, disable and RIP OUT update!!!!!!!!!!
If you think you "need" AN update of a given sort (note wording),
then MANUALLY do _that_ particular one. Period.
And if that update screws something up, it is your fault!

 

[Joe Morris]

I hit the switch after I saw no disk activity for a while... and I'm
running Symantec AV! I rebooted in Normal mode (skipped the Repair
business) and all's well (apparently).

Symantec, or Norton AV? Many people assume they mean the same thing
(Symantec owns the Norton brand) but "Norton" products are the consumer
line; "Symantec" products are for enterprise users. They usually are
similar, although "Norton Ghost" is now a rebadged DriveImage and is nothing
like "Symantec Ghost" unless something's changed recently.

Since the two AV flavors are similar the distinction may be irrelevent to
this thread...or it might not.

As a data point, when SEP12 was released it didn't play nicely in a Citrix
XenDesktop cloud environment unless you stripped out everything but the
basic AV component. The symptom was that the virtual machines would hang in
shutdown (sound familiar?). I still see one or two systems hung in shutdown
each day that I need to force down but the workload is only a minor
irritation.

Joe

 

[Jason]

I hit the switch after I saw no disk activity for a while... and I'm
running Symantec AV! I rebooted in Normal mode (skipped the Repair
business) and all's well (apparently).

Symantec, or Norton AV? Many people assume they mean the same thing
(Symantec owns the Norton brand) but "Norton" products are the consumer
line; "Symantec" products are for enterprise users. They usually are
similar, although "Norton Ghost" is now a rebadged DriveImage and is nothing
like "Symantec Ghost" unless something's changed recently.

Since the two AV flavors are similar the distinction may be irrelevent to
this thread...or it might not.

As a data point, when SEP12 was released it didn't play nicely in a Citrix
XenDesktop cloud environment unless you stripped out everything but the
basic AV component. The symptom was that the virtual machines would hang in
shutdown (sound familiar?). I still see one or two systems hung in shutdown
each day that I need to force down but the workload is only a minor
irritation.

Joe[/QUOTE]

I stand corrected; Norton it is. When Norton AV was still Norton, before
Symantec bought him out, I had a fair bit of trouble with the software.
Recently I haven't. I used to regulary swear at Peter under my breath but
then couldn't stay too mad too long because the Ghost product saved my
bacon more than once. IIRC, Ghost fell apart after the Symantec
acquisition - but that is a dim memory. Now I use Acronis backup and
it's been ok ever since they got their standalone Linux-based recovery
environment to work properly.

 

[Ashton Crusher]

As a data item we see that across the Windows 7 systems at my POE...not
every time we install updates (and we use a third-party tool instead of
Windows Update) and not on every machine.

It's irritating, but so far it seems to be harmless. The guidance I have
the Help Desk give to the users is that if it sits at the "do not turn off
your computer" message for more than a minute, and the disk activity light
blinks every second or so, it's safe to force a power-down.

Unfortunately, the problem isn't repeatable on demand. I strongly suspect
that there's a race condition leading to a deadlock; this would be
consistent with my NEVER having seen the problem on any of the numerous Win7
systems I run as virtual machines under VMware Workstation even though they
have the same configuration as my standard image.

The prime candidate for the trigger - at least for my POE - is the Symantec
antivirus product. It's got hooks in all sorts of odd places, and could
either be itself at fault, or be confused by some other program's
misbehavior.

Joe

I can't believe people still run Symantec products. I had it mess up
so many computers a few years back that I would never trust them
again.

 

[Dave-UK]

I can't believe people still run Symantec products. I had it mess up
so many computers a few years back that I would never trust them
again.

Most people buy a computer with Norton junk already infecting their new
computers and don't know any better.

 

[Ghostrider]

A few days ago when I hit Shut Down the Win shutdown was delayed and a
notice appeared that it was in the process of making 11 Win 7 updates
and not to remove power or manually shutdown. In the evening, after a
few hours of it apparently hanging up on #1 of 11, I went to bed. The
next morning it was still hanging on #1 update. I finally had to remove
power to my computer. On reboot I got the warning of improper shutdown
and did I wish to use Safe Mode or Normal boot. I chose normal boot and
it did boot up.

I manually used Windows Update, selected all 11 updates, and it worked
OK. Just thought I'd enter my experience with that update for general
information.

It happens, especially as the Microsoft Windows operating system gets
more dumbed down with each new version. Microsoft feels that downloading
and installing security updates are essential and configured this step
to be "automatic". However, the experienced user should disable this
feature in order to review and approve the installation of any update.

Otherwise, what happens is that an update which requires the approval or
consent of the user will hang up the update until this is done, e.g.,
the one for removal of malicious malware. This update could be anywhere
in the installation stream...hence the hang. But you knew this, right?

Anyway, happy to see that you are a member of the advanced users club.

GR

 

[Robert Baer]

Symantec, or Norton AV? Many people assume they mean the same thing
(Symantec owns the Norton brand) but "Norton" products are the consumer
line; "Symantec" products are for enterprise users. They usually are
similar, although "Norton Ghost" is now a rebadged DriveImage and is nothing
like "Symantec Ghost" unless something's changed recently.

Since the two AV flavors are similar the distinction may be irrelevent to
this thread...or it might not.

As a data point, when SEP12 was released it didn't play nicely in a Citrix
XenDesktop cloud environment unless you stripped out everything but the
basic AV component. The symptom was that the virtual machines would hang in
shutdown (sound familiar?). I still see one or two systems hung in shutdown
each day that I need to force down but the workload is only a minor
irritation.

Joe

I stand corrected; Norton it is. When Norton AV was still Norton, before
Symantec bought him out, I had a fair bit of trouble with the software.
Recently I haven't. I used to regulary swear at Peter under my breath but
then couldn't stay too mad too long because the Ghost product saved my
bacon more than once. IIRC, Ghost fell apart after the Symantec
acquisition - but that is a dim memory. Now I use Acronis backup and
it's been ok ever since they got their standalone Linux-based recovery
environment to work properly.[/QUOTE]
Well, i tried the Acronis "True Image" product.
My HD is Partition #1 = C:Win98SE, Partition #2 = extended (D:
WORK,EEVEL), Partition #3 = F:MASTER, and Partition #4 G:WIN2K.
Well they do not know the meaning of the word COPY or CLONE.
Drive letters got scrambled, some partition sizes and lengths got
messed, partition type got messed, DOS directory order got messed.

 

[Jason]

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:33:16 -0800 "Robert Baer"

Well, i tried the Acronis "True Image" product.
My HD is Partition #1 = C:Win98SE, Partition #2 = extended (D:
WORK,EEVEL), Partition #3 = F:MASTER, and Partition #4 G:WIN2K.
Well they do not know the meaning of the word COPY or CLONE.
Drive letters got scrambled, some partition sizes and lengths got
messed, partition type got messed, DOS directory order got messed.

How long ago did you try? It's been fine (for me anyway) for years now.
Earliest versions were not so great but I wasn't using it then so I can't
say if your bad experience was typical.

Jason