windows live mail will not use ">" for quoting

[Stephen Wolstenholme]

Agent is still being actively developed, unless you know something I
don't. <www.forteinc.com>

Apart from the improved web site I have seen any signs of development.

Steve

 

[Dave \Crash\ Dummy]

It might be sad to see what Microsoft has done with their software,
but there's nothing sad about pointing out how bad it is here in this
newsgroup. And yes, those posts *do* answer the OP, in a way. Using
a proper newsreader helps your post get read by more people.

I have withheld comment (until now) because there really is no cure for
WLM except to replace it. I stuck to OE for years, suffering abuse from
users of all the third party news clients mentioned in this thread. I
was very disappointed when there was no OE in Windows 7, and I hoped
that WLM would turn out to be a renamed, updated version. No such luck.
There was no way to make it work properly as a NNTP client, so I went
looking for a replacement. I settled on Thunderbird 2, without comment.

 

[Char Jackson]

Apart from the improved web site I have seen any signs of development.

I'm not sure what you were trying to say. You're already using the
latest version of Agent.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Nah, it's really "Your newsreader is worse than my newsreader"

(Replying jointly to the various replies to the above post.)

To me, since every newsreader manages to have some problems I dislike,
I have to just suck it up and use one(s) that I can live with (but not
Live Mail with!).

Every once in a while I decide to try a new one, or an old one where
I've forgotten why I don't like it, but usually I just end up sticking
with what I'm already using.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

BUT THIS ISN'T A DEBATE ABOUT TOOLS.

IT'S A DEBATE ABOUT MANNERS AND SOCIAL NORMS.

See, I just broke a social norm

By typing in caps, I was "yelling", and for the purpose of distracting
you. Our social norm, our manners say, that "yelling isn't necessary
in a normal conversation".

When your posts break social norms, to the point that a sub-thread
develops about changing your USENET posting tool, that's proof
enough it should be changed. Obviously, it distracted participants
enough, for them to speak up. Speaking up takes energy and effort
and time.

Why anyone would "promote" the usage of an inappropriate (non-compliant)
tool, when so many good ones are available, is beyond me.
There is no pressing need, for email and USENET to be done
with the same tool. You can quite easily use separate tools
for both. And with the added benefit, you'll never accidentally
post an email message, to a USENET group, when you didn't want
that to happen.

So the next time you see this debate, think MANNERS AND SOCIAL NORMS.

Paul

Excellent point...

 

[Ken Blake]

I find it bizarre that Microsoft would provide a news reader (windows live
mail) and make it difficult to reply in the correct way using ">" to quote
the message I am replying to.
What is the solution?

Dump Windows Live Mail. It's a piece of junk, as far as I'm concerned.

I use Agent 6.0 as my newsreader.

 

[bj]

I'm another one of those who just tries to work around the problems.
(*every* piece of s/w has some sort of problems that need to be dealt with)

I know some here consider WLM (& its users) lower than dirt, but I did try
some other mail/news "solutions" & liked them even less. The last one I
tried was the much-admired Thunderbird -- liked it even less than WLM, & it
wasn't as much like OE as some people said it was, either. Can't remember
which ones I tried further in the past.

I have no interest in using two or more programs (& learning all of *their*
eccentricities) to do what I use WLM for -- mail, newsgroups, & rss feeds
(which I was glad to see WLM did, since OE didn't, & now I have an easy way
to handle them too.)

I realize that means that Certain People will ignore any questions I ask
(feel free to ignore me completely rather than trying to "convert" me;
*please*) but someone less snotty usually comes up with some kind of
solution -- like tipping me off to the QAT (thanks again, whoever that was!)
bj

"R. C. White" wrote in message

Hi, Jim.

"123Jim" wrote in message

I find it bizarre that Microsoft would provide a news reader (windows live
mail) and make it difficult to reply in the correct way using ">" to quote
the message I am replying to.

What is the solution?

Yes, "bizarre" is an appropriate word. But, in spite of its shortcomings,
I'm using WLM 2011. (The Ribbon UI kind of grows on you if you give it a
fair trial, especially after you discover the QAT (Quick Access Toolbar) and
create some one-click icons. But Win7 is NOT WinXP, and WLM is NOT OE.)

A PARTIAL solution to the quoting problem is what I did to your message
quoted above. I prepended the ">", and then I deleted the line-ends to make
the whole paragraph a single line of text. In this case, since your post
was short, I've replied at the bottom. In most threads, I top-post, leaving
the OP at the bottom and, if needed to clarify which point I'm addressing,
I'll quote a part of it by pasting that passage and perhaps by applying my
partial fix to that quote. This is not a complete solution, but it works
for me.

Sadly, this newsgroup (and a few others) has devolved into a "hate WLM"
chorus. A typical thread these days starts with the OP asking a question.
This is followed by one post answering the question...and by a dozen or more
posts debating the merits of various newsreaders - mostly trashing WLM
2011 - and not helping the OP at all. :>(

This thread has already started a similar pattern but without even a helpful
first response. You asked a specific question about WLM; I've given one
partial answer and I hope it works for you. If anybody else addresses your
actual question, I'll be interested to read it and reply if I think I can
help further. But I have no plans to join the endless "my newsreader is
better than your newsreader" debate.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2011 (Build 15.4.3508.1109) in Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1

 

[Nil]

I know some here consider WLM (& its users) lower than dirt, but I
did try some other mail/news "solutions" & liked them even less.
The last one I tried was the much-admired Thunderbird -- liked it
even less than WLM, & it wasn't as much like OE as some people
said it was, either. Can't remember which ones I tried further in
the past.

It's not always about what YOU personally like. I might like to pee in
the pool, but I won't, 'cause it makes an unsanitary mess for other
swimmers. I might like to speak Klingon to the waiter taking my order
at the clam shack, but I won't because my order will probably get
garbled. I might like to use a chainsaw to clip my mother's puppy's
claws, but I won't I'll probably have to return the paws to Mom in a
separate bag.

In this case, WLM2011 is simply not able to do the basic things that
need to get done when communicating clearly on Usenet, despite how
Microsoft presents it, and no workaround can fix that. It may be
workable as a mail client, but it degrades the newsgroup experience for
everybody.

 

[Leon Manfredi]

Agent is still being actively developed, unless you know something I
don't. <www.forteinc.com>

No I don't.... but I'm hoping that they'll consider, like Thunderbird,
incorporating an email program, reason, because Agents interface is
much more negotiable, than Thunderbird's

 

[nomail]

Dump Windows Live Mail. It's a piece of junk, as far as I'm concerned.

I use Agent 6.0 as my newsreader.

Seconded - I use Agent 1.91; still works after all these years!

Pete

 

[Charles Tomaras]

Solution #1 Don't use newsgroups. (Microsoft's favorite)

The problem is that Usenet has deteriorated so much in the last few years
that no company would want to use it as serious form of support or
information. Too many "aliases," too much spam, too much profanity, too many
idiots. When the major ISP's discontinued providing newsgroup service and
support, the writing was on the wall. As a sound mixer by profession I can't
think of a single company or manufacturer who still uses Usenet to
disseminate information. I just come here out of habit now and the
occasional tidbit of decent information from a fellow user. Usenet is in
fact pretty much dead, we are just ghosts of the past.

 

[John Morrison]

Agent is still being actively developed, unless you know something I
don't. <www.forteinc.com>

The last release was Agent 600-1186 on November 22nd. 2009, so I class
that as out of production.

 

[Char Jackson]

No I don't.... but I'm hoping that they'll consider, like Thunderbird,
incorporating an email program, reason, because Agents interface is
much more negotiable, than Thunderbird's

I had no idea that they had removed the email capabilities. Oh, wait,
they didn't, it's still there.

A quick browse to their website shows that the email functionality is
alive and well. I think it has been there from the beginning, as I
don't remember a version that didn't have it.

 

[Char Jackson]

The last release was Agent 600-1186 on November 22nd. 2009, so I class
that as out of production.

In my first reply above, I should have said actively supported rather
than actively developed.

 

[nomail]

I had no idea that they had removed the email capabilities. Oh, wait,
they didn't, it's still there.

A quick browse to their website shows that the email functionality is
alive and well. I think it has been there from the beginning, as I
don't remember a version that didn't have it.

As I remember it, 'Free Agent' was originally just a news reader.
The email client was part of the paid version called 'Agent'. The
freeware version of 'Free Agent' is probably long gone but may be
available somewhere on the net.

Pete

 

[123Jim]

I find it bizarre that Microsoft would provide a news reader (windows
live mail) and make it difficult to reply in the correct way using ">"
to quote the message I am replying to.
What is the solution?

Finally! I'm back ..
I tried Thunderbird, somehow I screwed up the settings for
external-september news .. then I tried Gravity .. set it up easilly ,
but I could not get it to list the message in order of date and keep
them together in threads . also the default font options were terrible
... hard to distinguish read from unread .. Anyway I tried Thunderbird
again, and having gone all around the houses to set it up I am again
able to subscribe to newsgroups and reply with the correct ">" quoting!

Thanks to all who replied.

 

[123Jim]

Finally! I'm back ..
I tried Thunderbird, somehow I screwed up the settings for
external-september news .. then I tried Gravity .. set it up easilly ,
but I could not get it to list the message in order of date and keep
them together in threads . also the default font options were terrible
.. hard to distinguish read from unread .. Anyway I tried Thunderbird
again, and having gone all around the houses to set it up I am again
able to subscribe to newsgroups and reply with the correct ">" quoting!

Thanks to all who replied.

ah , when reading replied to mails Thunderbird uses vertical lines for
quoting, but they are correctly indented .. I like it!

 

[Char Jackson]

As I remember it, 'Free Agent' was originally just a news reader.
The email client was part of the paid version called 'Agent'. The
freeware version of 'Free Agent' is probably long gone but may be
available somewhere on the net.

I don't remember it that way but it's been a very long time and I
could be wrong. I'm told the latest version of Free Agent, v3.3, can
be downloaded here:

<http://www.forteinc.com/agent/download-all.php>

Also, with the newer versions, I'm told that failing to enter a valid
registration number will cause the program to go into a limited
feature free mode after 30 days, but again, I haven't tried that and
could be wrong. Version 2.0 still does what I need quite nicely.

 

[Tim Slattery]

As I remember it, 'Free Agent' was originally just a news reader.
The email client was part of the paid version called 'Agent'. The
freeware version of 'Free Agent' is probably long gone but may be
available somewhere on the net.

I don't think so. Free Agent was a version of Agent with some
capabilities disabled. Both versions contained newsreader and mail
clients. Forte discontinued FreeAgent quite a while ago. If you
download Agent nowadays, you can run the whole package free for 90
days or so, then you have to pay for a license.

FreeAgent is available somewhere, but the latest version is
3.something. Agent is now up to version 6.

 

[Jeff Layman]

The problem is that Usenet has deteriorated so much in the last few years
that no company would want to use it as serious form of support or
information. Too many "aliases," too much spam, too much profanity, too many
idiots. When the major ISP's discontinued providing newsgroup service and
support, the writing was on the wall. As a sound mixer by profession I can't
think of a single company or manufacturer who still uses Usenet to
disseminate information. I just come here out of habit now and the
occasional tidbit of decent information from a fellow user. Usenet is in
fact pretty much dead, we are just ghosts of the past.

Rubbish. True, it isn't what it used to be, and there are occasional
trolls,but if wonderful support like Microsoft's forums are meant to
replace it we can all give up now. If you think there are just titbits
of useful information to be had in Usenet then it really is time for you
to delete your newsreader.

There are a *lot* of helpful, knowledgeable, people out there (eg
ex-MVPs, geeks, and their like) who can help with many problems. How
many times have you see Usenet postings such as "I went to So-and-So's
"Support" pages but they were no help"? Or "I Googled but there were too
many hits"? I find it quite interesting that many of the Usenet
hangers-on are - shall we say - silver surfers in extremis. They've
been there, done that, seen that problem and know the solution.

I can tell you one thing; you are more likely to find something useful
in Usenet than wasting time with Facebook and Twitter.