Upgrade Vista to Windows 7

[...winston]

Those were the facts, you've not understood them.
Just because it can be done doesn't make it legal or preempt licensing.


--
....winston
msft mvp


"Char Jackson" wrote in message

"Char Jackson" wrote in message

Since the capability has been there for years, going back to at least Vista,
and Microsoft has been fully aware of it during that time, the only
conclusion is that yes, you may do that. If you choose not to take advantage
of a capability that they provide, that's up to you.

Technically feasible and Licensing are 2 different things.

I know I'm going to regret responding to you since you're incapable of
posting coherently, but here goes.

Not much different than obtaining a driver license and agreeing to abide by the rules.
Is it legal to drive on the wrong side of the road ? No.
Can you do it ? Yes

Whether or not a wrong-doing is enforced or not doesn't make it more or less legal.

I'm sure if you thought about, you could easily find more applicable examples.

I believe you missed my point entirely. You don't have to try to come up
with analogies. Just stick to the facts at hand. I'm sure, if you give it
some thought, you'll be able to see that there is no 'wrong-doing' involved.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

From what I have read,in Windows 8 is not only
NOT an improvement over 7, it is actually lacking some parts or features
that are in Windows 7.

Not to mention that Windows 8 doesn't come with Windows Media Center. It
is available as part of an extra-cost package. There was a free offer
for a while (ending Jan 31, IIRC).

 

[Char Jackson]

Those were the facts, you've not understood them.
Just because it can be done doesn't make it legal or preempt licensing.

If that's all you've got, you've failed to make your case.

If you care to look around, you'll see that there have been mainstream
magazine articles and web blogs where higher-ups within Microsoft have been
engaged in a discussion on this specific topic, and in every case they have
declined to say that doing a new installation with Upgrade media violates
any part of the license.

You're entitled to your own interpretation, but please don't present it as
fact.

 

[...winston]

"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message

Not to mention that Windows 8 doesn't come with Windows Media Center. It
is available as part of an extra-cost package. There was a free offer
for a while (ending Jan 31, IIRC).

Some additional information on Windows 8 Media center

Windows 8 Media Center is a Windows Pro only feature.

For Windows 8 Pro the cost to upgrade to Windows 8 Pro with Media Center by purchasing the Media Center pack is $10
For Windows 8 the cost to upgrade to Windows 8 Pro with Media Center by purchasing the Windows 8 Pro Pack is $99
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/feature-packs

Additional info - Win8 Pro Pack and Windows 8 Media Center Pack Terms and Conditions
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/terms-conditions-feature-packs

Upgrading with the Win 8 Pro Pack or the Media Center Pack also replaces the previous installed/activated product key with the
'Windows 8 Pro with Media Center' product key, converts the license to a retail license. After Win8 Pro with Media Center is
installed and activated it also entites the user to 90 days of 'no-charge' Microsoft Support.
- Additionally if the prior license was an OEM license on a new pc purchased(Win8 pre-installed by the pc builder - Dell, HP, etc.)
and 'you later upgrade that PC with Windows 8 Pro Pack, Windows 8 Media Center Pack you will no longer be able to install apps that
are provided exclusively from your PC manufacturer through the Windows Store.

 

[...winston]

"Char Jackson" wrote in message

If that's all you've got, you've failed to make your case.

If you care to look around, you'll see that there have been mainstream
magazine articles and web blogs where higher-ups within Microsoft have been
engaged in a discussion on this specific topic, and in every case they have
declined to say that doing a new installation with Upgrade media violates
any part of the license.

You're entitled to your own interpretation, but please don't present it as
fact.

MSFT 'factual' position is clear.
<http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/upgrade-to-windows-8>

Upgrade media
"Or if you prefer (and if it is available in your region), you can buy the upgrade as a DVD from a participating retail store. Note
that if you're upgrading from a DVD, you must have Windows running on your PC when you begin the upgrade. If you'd like to reformat
your hard drive, you can do so as long as you start your PC from media and then format your hard drive from within the setup
experience for installing Windows, and not prior to it. "

Full version (Personal User for System Builders)
"If you want to build your own PC and install Windows 8 or Windows 8 Pro, or want an additional operating system running in either
a local virtual machine or separate partition (including a Mac), you can purchase the Windows 8 or Windows 8 Pro System Builder
products (OEM versions). "

As previously noted..technically using upgrade media as a clean install can be done....as we all know there are plenty of routes to
accomplish said task with users having satisfactory and unsatisfactory activations (two installs, regedit, refresh via Win8
settings, bat file activation, errors, failed installs)....no matter how one looks at it, it doesn't change the Upgrade Media Eula
or the information in the above referenced Microsoft link.

Note:
- The term 'build your own pc' also applies to bare metal and is only applicable to full version.
- When using upgrade media on bare metal the most common response presented to the user is - "The Software Licensing Service
determined that this specified product key can only be used for upgrading, not for clean installation"

Clean install
= clean install as an installation on a blank hard drive. Others may see it as an option to keep no files from a previous
operating system...the latter is upgrading due to the constraints of the prior o/s (XP, Vista)

Lol...and please do humor us with those 'MSFT higher ups' comments. Those lines of demarcation have been in existence for
years.....restricted from replying about legal issues (simply put...not their job and instructed accordingly).

Feel free to respond...but I doubt we'll ever agree on this topic though I do respect your opinion and fully understand what can be
done regardless of it being permissible or not.

 

[Char Jackson]

MSFT 'factual' position is clear.
<http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/upgrade-to-windows-8>

Windows 8? So that makes it three Operating Systems in a row now that
include the capability to do a clean install with Upgrade media. Clearly,
Microsoft doesn't see a problem here or they would have closed this hole
years ago, back in the early days of Vista. Instead, they left the
capability there through Vista, 7, and now into 8, all without addressing it
in their EULA.

Upgrade media
"Or if you prefer (and if it is available in your region), you can buy the upgrade as a DVD from a participating retail store. Note
that if you're upgrading from a DVD, you must have Windows running on your PC when you begin the upgrade. If you'd like to reformat
your hard drive, you can do so as long as you start your PC from media and then format your hard drive from within the setup
experience for installing Windows, and not prior to it. "

I don't see anything there that precludes you from doing a clean install
with Upgrade media. If MS doesn't want users to do a clean install with
Upgrade media, they could do two things: add such language to the EULA, and
close the hole that makes it possible. It would only take a few lines of
code.

As previously noted..technically using upgrade media as a clean install can be done....as we all know there are plenty of routes to
accomplish said task with users having satisfactory and unsatisfactory activations (two installs, regedit, refresh via Win8
settings, bat file activation, errors, failed installs)....no matter how one looks at it, it doesn't change the Upgrade Media Eula
or the information in the above referenced Microsoft link.

We have a situation where the EULA doesn't forbid it, reference your quote
above, and the media happily allows it. Knowing that, you choose to believe
that it's not allowed. You're right, we don't agree.

Your claim that Microsoft's position is clear isn't true. We both think
their position is clear, yet we completely disagree. That tells me that
their position isn't clear at all.

 

[...winston]

"Char Jackson" wrote in message Windows 8? So that makes it three Operating Systems in a row now that
include the capability to do a clean install with Upgrade media. Clearly,
Microsoft doesn't see a problem here or they would have closed this hole
years ago, back in the early days of Vista. Instead, they left the
capability there through Vista, 7, and now into 8, all without addressing it
in their EULA.

I don't see anything there that precludes you from doing a clean install
with Upgrade media. If MS doesn't want users to do a clean install with
Upgrade media, they could do two things: add such language to the EULA, and
close the hole that makes it possible. It would only take a few lines of
code.

We have a situation where the EULA doesn't forbid it, reference your quote
above, and the media happily allows it. Knowing that, you choose to believe
that it's not allowed. You're right, we don't agree.

Your claim that Microsoft's position is clear isn't true. We both think
their position is clear, yet we completely disagree. That tells me that
their position isn't clear at all.
Ah...that's always been a point of misunderstanding about the EULA.
- It only tells you what you can do, not what you can't do.
- i.e. if not present then one doesn't have those rights.


Eric Lingman, MSFT
<qp>
Remember, EULAs tell you what rights you do have, they don’t list all of the rights you don’t have. I mention this because I have
had people make the comment of, “I don’t see anywhere in the EULA that says I can’t do…†That statement is completely irrelevant.
If they EULA says you can do something, then you have those rights. If the EULA says you cannot do something or if it does not
specifically say that you can do something, then you do not have those rights.
</qp>

 

[Chuck Anderson]

I appreciate the detailed discussion here. It has been helpful. I
ordered the Windows 7 Pro upgrade and will be applying it later this
week. Windows Upgrade Adviser told me that I have a 64 bit option, with
the caveat that it will not leave my existing programs in place.
Thankfully, that's exactly what I want to do. It looks like I am going
to have a Home Theater PC for the price of the OS upgrade and a new
video card (and the tuner(s) - I got the HDHomeRun Prime).

Thanks to everyone for helping me sort this out.

I have inherited a Dell Studio 540 Desktop (Pentium dual core) with
Windows Vista. I was glad to figure out that it will be an adequate
machine for my Home Theater PC (for the most part, a glorified HD
DVR). I need to use Windows 7 Media Center, so I want to upgrade from
the Dell OEM Vista to Windows 7.

What is the best way to go about that? I am going to do a custom
install because I want to move up to 64 bit from 32, and I want to
wipe the old hard drive, anyway. .............

--
*****************************
Chuck Anderson • Boulder, CO
http://cycletourist.com
Turn Off, Tune Out, Drop In
*****************************

 

[Char Jackson]

Ah...that's always been a point of misunderstanding about the EULA.
- It only tells you what you can do, not what you can't do.
- i.e. if not present then one doesn't have those rights.

Thanks, I guess we can agree to disagree then. When MS wants to stop
allowing it, they'll add the few lines of code required to prevent it.

 

[Char Jackson]

I appreciate the detailed discussion here. It has been helpful. I
ordered the Windows 7 Pro upgrade and will be applying it later this
week. Windows Upgrade Adviser told me that I have a 64 bit option, with
the caveat that it will not leave my existing programs in place.
Thankfully, that's exactly what I want to do. It looks like I am going
to have a Home Theater PC for the price of the OS upgrade and a new
video card (and the tuner(s) - I got the HDHomeRun Prime).

Lovely tuners, those things. I have a pair myself.

 

[...winston]

"Char Jackson" wrote in message

Thanks, I guess we can agree to disagree then. When MS wants to stop
allowing it, they'll add the few lines of code required to prevent it.

yw..fyi, that previous post contained one of the few direct statements that MSFT has ever made (i.e. anything not present doesn't
grant a right to do something)

From a different perspective...MSFT adding a few lines is probably not going to happen <g>.
Why? Even though the EULA only tells you what you can do (i.e. usage) and no rights for something not present... MSFT, imo, would
always prefer to have everyone running Win7 and Win8 (no XP, no Vista) regardless of how they got there (positively impacting
sales, budget, resources, & support)
- Vista, imo, is longer important. XP users on the other hand don't have much choice - eventually upgrade or choose a non-MSFT
o/s...for many, Win7, while still available may be a better choice than Win8. Unfortunately the OEM's control the momentum of that
game (not everyone builds their own) and since they are responsible for support it’s a whole lot easier and cheaper to support what
they are buying now, not yesterday.

 

[...winston]

"Chuck Anderson" wrote in message I appreciate the detailed discussion here. It has been helpful. I
ordered the Windows 7 Pro upgrade and will be applying it later this
week. Windows Upgrade Adviser told me that I have a 64 bit option, with
the caveat that it will not leave my existing programs in place.
Thankfully, that's exactly what I want to do. It looks like I am going
to have a Home Theater PC for the price of the OS upgrade and a new
video card (and the tuner(s) - I got the HDHomeRun Prime).

Thanks to everyone for helping me sort this out.
Good luck with the transition (to 64 bit Win7 Pro)

 

[Chuck Anderson]

Just a follow up. I have completed the installation. There is an
important detail about the process I flubbed, so I thought I'd mention
it here. I booted off of the installation disk and selected Custom
install. When I was asked which partition to load Windows on I decided
to clean things up, so I deleted and formatted the recovery partition
(15GBs - for Vista, which I no longer need) and the existing primary
partition (oops!), so I could repartition 50GBs for the new primary
partition - Windows, Users, and Program Files folders - and then the
rest of the 500GB drive for data. I believe 50GBs is more than enough
for my C: drive as I will not be installing a lot of software onto an HTPC.

So ... the oops .... when I entered the product key I was told that it
was ... invalid. With an upgrade disk you are supposed to leave the
existing Windows partition. Acchhh! I finished the install and then
went to Activation. It still failed with "invalid product key." I
called the 877 number for phone activation and got a nice fellow in
India (activation can be done 24/7) who sorted it out for me. After
assuring me that all would be okay, he walked me through a procedure
that "fixed" my installation and I was able to activate. Phew.

So, two things, if anyone refers to this thread in the future, remember
to leave the existing windows partition alone (and repartition later?).
And ... if you do as I did anyway, Microsoft can - and will - fix it for
you. I believe this makes it clear that what I did - clean install with
an upgrade disk, from 32 bit to 64 bit - is approved by Microsoft.

Thanks again for the assistance here. I have successfully modified this
"donated" Dell, Vista PC to a Windows 7 (Pro) HTPC - for far less than
it would have cost me to build one from scratch.

I appreciate the detailed discussion here. It has been helpful. I
ordered the Windows 7 Pro upgrade and will be applying it later this
week. Windows Upgrade Adviser told me that I have a 64 bit option,
with the caveat that it will not leave my existing programs in place.
Thankfully, that's exactly what I want to do. It looks like I am
going to have a Home Theater PC for the price of the OS upgrade and a
new video card (and the tuner(s) - I got the HDHomeRun Prime).

Thanks to everyone for helping me sort this out.

--
*****************************
Chuck Anderson • Boulder, CO
http://cycletourist.com
Turn Off, Tune Out, Drop In
*****************************

 

[Jan Alter]

Just a follow up. I have completed the installation. There is an
important detail about the process I flubbed, so I thought I'd mention it
here. I booted off of the installation disk and selected Custom install.
When I was asked which partition to load Windows on I decided to clean
things up, so I deleted and formatted the recovery partition (15GBs - for
Vista, which I no longer need) and the existing primary partition (oops!),
so I could repartition 50GBs for the new primary partition - Windows,
Users, and Program Files folders - and then the rest of the 500GB drive
for data. I believe 50GBs is more than enough for my C: drive as I will
not be installing a lot of software onto an HTPC.

So ... the oops .... when I entered the product key I was told that it was
... invalid. With an upgrade disk you are supposed to leave the existing
Windows partition. Acchhh! I finished the install and then went to
Activation. It still failed with "invalid product key." I called the 877
number for phone activation and got a nice fellow in India (activation can
be done 24/7) who sorted it out for me. After assuring me that all would
be okay, he walked me through a procedure that "fixed" my installation and
I was able to activate. Phew.

So, two things, if anyone refers to this thread in the future, remember to
leave the existing windows partition alone (and repartition later?). And
... if you do as I did anyway, Microsoft can - and will - fix it for you.
I believe this makes it clear that what I did - clean install with an
upgrade disk, from 32 bit to 64 bit - is approved by Microsoft.

Thanks again for the assistance here. I have successfully modified this
"donated" Dell, Vista PC to a Windows 7 (Pro) HTPC - for far less than it
would have cost me to build one from scratch.





--
*****************************
Chuck Anderson . Boulder, CO
http://cycletourist.com
Turn Off, Tune Out, Drop In
*****************************

Glad it all came out in the wash.

This method works without a telephone call. (I've tried it myself without
issue)

 

[Char Jackson]

Just a follow up. I have completed the installation. There is an
important detail about the process I flubbed, so I thought I'd mention
it here. I booted off of the installation disk and selected Custom
install. When I was asked which partition to load Windows on I decided
to clean things up, so I deleted and formatted the recovery partition
(15GBs - for Vista, which I no longer need) and the existing primary
partition (oops!), so I could repartition 50GBs for the new primary
partition - Windows, Users, and Program Files folders - and then the
rest of the 500GB drive for data. I believe 50GBs is more than enough
for my C: drive as I will not be installing a lot of software onto an HTPC.

So ... the oops .... when I entered the product key I was told that it
was ... invalid. With an upgrade disk you are supposed to leave the
existing Windows partition. Acchhh! I finished the install and then
went to Activation. It still failed with "invalid product key." I
called the 877 number for phone activation and got a nice fellow in
India (activation can be done 24/7) who sorted it out for me. After
assuring me that all would be okay, he walked me through a procedure
that "fixed" my installation and I was able to activate. Phew.

So, two things, if anyone refers to this thread in the future, remember
to leave the existing windows partition alone (and repartition later?).
And ... if you do as I did anyway, Microsoft can - and will - fix it for
you. I believe this makes it clear that what I did - clean install with
an upgrade disk, from 32 bit to 64 bit - is approved by Microsoft.

The way I would have done it would be to blow away the existing partitions
and install Windows from the Upgrade media from scratch. Don't enter the
product key. Next, install Windows a second time, this time installing the
product key when prompted. Everything is hunky dory, with no calls to MS
required and no need to leave an old partition hanging around.

Thanks again for the assistance here. I have successfully modified this
"donated" Dell, Vista PC to a Windows 7 (Pro) HTPC - for far less than
it would have cost me to build one from scratch.

Congrats and enjoy the HTPC.