Trouble updating software

D

Dex

When trying to update Tellyprompter from
http://www.adamdawes.com/windows/win_tellyprompter.html it hangs and
wont update from the Radio Times website, even when I disable the MVPS
host file, SpywareBlaster and Privatefirewall. Also uninstalled and
installed it several times.

The only time it will update is if I recover an image of my system
dating back 6 months or so, save the folder it stores the TV channels
and settings on to another drive and recover the current image.

I don't have any trouble updating other software on my system when I
allow the firewall to let them phone home.

Not sure what else I can do to allow this software unrestricted access
to the net, any help appreciated.


Using 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 with the Windows firewall disabled.
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

When trying to update Tellyprompter from
http://www.adamdawes.com/windows/win_tellyprompter.html it hangs and wont
update from the Radio Times website, even when I disable the MVPS host file,
SpywareBlaster and Privatefirewall. Also uninstalled and installed it several
times.
The only time it will update is if I recover an image of my system dating
back 6 months or so, save the folder it stores the TV channels and settings
on to another drive and recover the current image.
I don't have any trouble updating other software on my system when I allow
the firewall to let them phone home.
Not sure what else I can do to allow this software unrestricted access to the
net, any help appreciated.

Using 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 with the Windows firewall disabled.
One thought comes to mind: download the program (I see a download link
on the website), uninstall the existing version, and install from the
newly downloaded file.

Note that I am assuming that by "updating" you are referring to a
different process than what I described, e.g. clicking on an update
link in the program.
 
M

mick

When trying to update Tellyprompter from
http://www.adamdawes.com/windows/win_tellyprompter.html it hangs and wont
update from the Radio Times website, even when I disable the MVPS host file,
SpywareBlaster and Privatefirewall. Also uninstalled and installed it several
times.

The only time it will update is if I recover an image of my system dating
back 6 months or so, save the folder it stores the TV channels and settings
on to another drive and recover the current image.

I don't have any trouble updating other software on my system when I allow
the firewall to let them phone home.

Not sure what else I can do to allow this software unrestricted access to the
net, any help appreciated.


Using 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 with the Windows firewall disabled.
Don't use it but I see they had an issue in ver 1.8 with restricted
access rights, maybe it is still not fully resolved OR perhaps there
are still bits in your registry that have not been fully deleted when
you installed and are causing conflict with a previous version. Try
Revo uninstaller to uninstall the program fully.
http://www.revouninstaller.com/revo_uninstaller_free_download.html

Install Revo (free version will do) then install Tellyprompter again.
Uninstall Teleprompter using Revo, reboot then install Tellyprompter
yet again and see if it then works.

......................
Version history


Version 1.9 (5th October, 2010)
•This version should resolve the "muddled listings" problem that
occasionally resulted in programmes being shown against the wrong
channels.

Version 1.8 (31st July, 2010)
•Made TellyPrompter more resilient to intermittent listing problems on
the RadioTimes programme feed.
•Fixed the automatic upgrade process for Windows Vista and Windows 7
operating systems. Upgrading from v1.8 to a later version should once
again work automatically without failing due to restricted access
rights.

Version 1.7 (21st December, 2009)
•Fixed an error reading the programme listings due to a data feed
change.
.........................
 
D

Dex

One thought comes to mind: download the program (I see a download link
on the website), uninstall the existing version, and install from the
newly downloaded file.

Note that I am assuming that by "updating" you are referring to a
different process than what I described, e.g. clicking on an update link
in the program.
Updating the TV listings from the RT website.
 
D

Dex

Don't use it but I see they had an issue in ver 1.8 with restricted
access rights, maybe it is still not fully resolved OR perhaps there are
still bits in your registry that have not been fully deleted when you
installed and are causing conflict with a previous version. Try Revo
uninstaller to uninstall the program fully.
http://www.revouninstaller.com/revo_uninstaller_free_download.html

Install Revo (free version will do) then install Tellyprompter again.
Uninstall Teleprompter using Revo, reboot then install Tellyprompter yet
again and see if it then works.
Updated in 2010, this system hasn't had v1.8 anywhere near it. I also
use Revo Uninstaller Professional v2.5.9
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

Updating the TV listings from the RT website.
Oh. Sorry, I took "software" to mean the program, not the program.
Oops.

I mean I took it to mean the application, not the guide.
 
M

mick

Updated in 2010, this system hasn't had v1.8 anywhere near it. I also use
Revo Uninstaller Professional v2.5.9
I installed Tellyprompter, I have the same OS as you but use Norton
Internet Security firewall. No problems with program updating and
refreshing, although the software could do with a make over. Sorry
can't help any more, I think I will stick with my web based TV listings
at http://www.tvguide.co.uk/
 
P

Paul

Dex said:
Updated in 2010, this system hasn't had v1.8 anywhere near it. I also
use Revo Uninstaller Professional v2.5.9
Windows 7 has some restrictions on where programs can write.

A program is not supposed to update files in "Program Files" folder
by itself. So storing C:\Program Files\TellyPrompter\myguidedata.txt
is not recommended.

A program is not supposed to write to the "root" of a partition,
such as C:\myguidedata.txt . That too would be bad (a potential
malware technique apparently).

Windows 7 does have some "backwards compatibility" workarounds, where
when a program attempts to write to an "illegal" location, some other safe
place is used to store the info instead. If the program
tries to access the data later, it will be able to do so, without
a fuss. It doesn't explicitly know about the workaround. But, for
the user, it could be confusing, because the users sees a file
in the fallback location, and won't know that the program was
actually trying to write it somewhere else. So if someone tells
a user ("on my win2k system, the guide data is in C:\x\y\z\myguidedata.txt"),
that user may actually have to look elsewhere to find it.

The other area you could debug, is if there was a networking problem.
I don't know the best method to determine whether it's "getting stuck"
or not. The AdamDawes site says that "Radio Times" is the source
of the guide data, but looking at that site, I couldn't immediately
find info on how guide data can be fetched. Commercial guide
data would likely require authentication. Whereas, there have
been guide sites in the past, that gave away the data for free,
and for those there might not be a need for authentication. I would
probably use a packet sniffer, if I thought the session to such a
site was unencrypted. If the session was encrypted, it would be
pretty hard to follow by making copies of all the packets.

I installed the program in a VM, and with a packet sniffer, I can see
this when I get the guide data for analog channels. The actual server
delivering the data is different, but this points to the first
point of contact.

xmltv.radiotimes.com

GET /xmltv/92.dat

Using procmon.exe I can see this for a storage operation. This is the
folder it stores things in on my Win2K VM.

6:45:52.3998817 PM TellyPrompter.exe 1040
CreateFile C:\Documents and Settings\UserName\My Documents\TellyPrompter
SUCCESS Desired Access: Write Data/Add File, Synchronize,
Disposition: Open, Options: ,
Attributes: n/a,
ShareMode: Read, Write,
AllocationSize: n/a,
OpenResult: DoesNotExist

and in that folder I can see two files

Programmes.dat
Settings.dat

and the first one would be where some version of 92.dat gets stored.

The file Programmes.dat is actually compressed, and 7ZIP opens it.
Inside 7ZIP lists these five files.

bbc1
bbc2
ch4
five
p_itv1

and those are text files. The first line of the bbc1 text file
contains all of this. So this looks like a program entry.

Robbed, Raided, Reunited~4/20, series 1~~~~~
false~false~true~true~true~false~false~false~~~
Reality~A pensioner is delighted to get her engagement ring back,
and police reunite a hoard of silver with its legitimate owner
using some old-fashioned detective techniques.
~false~07/11/2012~11:00~11:30~30

So then the question would be, does Windows 7 have a problem
writing to the equivalent of

C:\Documents and Settings\UserName\My Documents\TellyPrompter

The path is not the same in Windows 7, but for me to repeat
this set of ops, I'd have to get my laptop out :) I don't
know if the TellyPrompter data folder will end up in some
library, or what.

You can use Sysinternals Process Monitor, to repeat the
tracing of where it attempts to write to. I had it
trace "CreateFile", "WriteFile", and "CloseFile", and
made the trace non-specific in other ways. And that
was enough filtering, that when I selected "Refresh" from
the menu in TellyPrompter, I could see where the data
was going.

In the failure case, you might use Proceee Monitor to see
a certain "CreateFile", with nothing after it, hinting
a failure had occurred.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896645

"Operation" "Is" "CreateFile" "Include"

Apply filter and start capture. Stop the trace when you
get what you need (as the filter will just run and burn
up storage otherwise).

HTH,
Paul
 
M

mick

Dex said:
Windows 7 has some restrictions on where programs can write.

A program is not supposed to update files in "Program Files" folder
by itself. So storing C:\Program Files\TellyPrompter\myguidedata.txt
is not recommended.

A program is not supposed to write to the "root" of a partition,
such as C:\myguidedata.txt . That too would be bad (a potential
malware technique apparently).

Windows 7 does have some "backwards compatibility" workarounds, where
when a program attempts to write to an "illegal" location, some other safe
place is used to store the info instead. If the program
tries to access the data later, it will be able to do so, without
a fuss. It doesn't explicitly know about the workaround. But, for
the user, it could be confusing, because the users sees a file
in the fallback location, and won't know that the program was
actually trying to write it somewhere else. So if someone tells
a user ("on my win2k system, the guide data is in C:\x\y\z\myguidedata.txt"),
that user may actually have to look elsewhere to find it.

The other area you could debug, is if there was a networking problem.
I don't know the best method to determine whether it's "getting stuck"
or not. The AdamDawes site says that "Radio Times" is the source
of the guide data, but looking at that site, I couldn't immediately
find info on how guide data can be fetched. Commercial guide
data would likely require authentication. Whereas, there have
been guide sites in the past, that gave away the data for free,
and for those there might not be a need for authentication. I would
probably use a packet sniffer, if I thought the session to such a
site was unencrypted. If the session was encrypted, it would be
pretty hard to follow by making copies of all the packets.

I installed the program in a VM, and with a packet sniffer, I can see
this when I get the guide data for analog channels. The actual server
delivering the data is different, but this points to the first
point of contact.

xmltv.radiotimes.com

GET /xmltv/92.dat

Using procmon.exe I can see this for a storage operation. This is the
folder it stores things in on my Win2K VM.

6:45:52.3998817 PM TellyPrompter.exe 1040
CreateFile C:\Documents and Settings\UserName\My Documents\TellyPrompter
SUCCESS Desired Access: Write Data/Add File, Synchronize,
Disposition: Open, Options: ,
Attributes: n/a,
ShareMode: Read, Write,
AllocationSize: n/a,
OpenResult: DoesNotExist

and in that folder I can see two files

Programmes.dat
Settings.dat

and the first one would be where some version of 92.dat gets stored.

The file Programmes.dat is actually compressed, and 7ZIP opens it.
Inside 7ZIP lists these five files.

bbc1
bbc2
ch4
five
p_itv1

and those are text files. The first line of the bbc1 text file
contains all of this. So this looks like a program entry.

Robbed, Raided, Reunited~4/20, series 1~~~~~
false~false~true~true~true~false~false~false~~~
Reality~A pensioner is delighted to get her engagement ring back,
and police reunite a hoard of silver with its legitimate owner
using some old-fashioned detective techniques.
~false~07/11/2012~11:00~11:30~30

So then the question would be, does Windows 7 have a problem
writing to the equivalent of

C:\Documents and Settings\UserName\My Documents\TellyPrompter

The path is not the same in Windows 7, but for me to repeat
this set of ops, I'd have to get my laptop out :) I don't
know if the TellyPrompter data folder will end up in some
library, or what.

You can use Sysinternals Process Monitor, to repeat the
tracing of where it attempts to write to. I had it
trace "CreateFile", "WriteFile", and "CloseFile", and
made the trace non-specific in other ways. And that
was enough filtering, that when I selected "Refresh" from
the menu in TellyPrompter, I could see where the data
was going.

In the failure case, you might use Proceee Monitor to see
a certain "CreateFile", with nothing after it, hinting
a failure had occurred.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896645

"Operation" "Is" "CreateFile" "Include"

Apply filter and start capture. Stop the trace when you
get what you need (as the filter will just run and burn
up storage otherwise).

HTH,
Paul
On my Win 7 64bit machine Tellyprompter created a folder in
C:\users\username\my documents\ tellyprompter for the two files
program.dat and settings.dat
In the C:\Programs folder the only files dated today where
Uninstall.dat and Uninstall000 or something, cant remember exact names
of them as I have since uninstalled the program.

There were about 5 registry entries still left though after
uninstalling with Revo Pro and a reboot, which I have now manually
deleted.

I had a very similar problem to Dex's with a piece of software awhile
back, can't for the life of me remember which but it was a good
commercial program. It too would not update, uninstalling and
re-installing did not cure the problem, only a manual search of the
registry and deleting all leftover entries solved it.
 
P

Paul

mick said:
On my Win 7 64bit machine Tellyprompter created a folder in
C:\users\username\my documents\ tellyprompter for the two files
program.dat and settings.dat
In the C:\Programs folder the only files dated today where Uninstall.dat
and Uninstall000 or something, cant remember exact names of them as I
have since uninstalled the program.

There were about 5 registry entries still left though after uninstalling
with Revo Pro and a reboot, which I have now manually deleted.

I had a very similar problem to Dex's with a piece of software awhile
back, can't for the life of me remember which but it was a good
commercial program. It too would not update, uninstalling and
re-installing did not cure the problem, only a manual search of the
registry and deleting all leftover entries solved it.
Note that, in my collected data above...

xmltv.radiotimes.com

GET /xmltv/92.dat

That is roughly equivalent to

http://xmltv.radiotimes.com/xmltv/92.dat

It means that the Tellyprompter program is using HTTP
protocol, and might be using .NET code to do it. (Developers
might also make use of the HTML engine used by Explorer.)
If there are any security issues associated with such activity,
they could be preventing the transfer.

I wouldn't have expected the "Programmes.dat" file to exist,
if the program hadn't succeeded at least once, in connecting
to xmltv.radiotimes.com . There would be no point in the
program installer, installing a stale old Programmes.dat .
Only one fetched and saved, would be worthwhile.

Paul
 
D

Dex

Note that, in my collected data above...

xmltv.radiotimes.com

GET /xmltv/92.dat

That is roughly equivalent to

http://xmltv.radiotimes.com/xmltv/92.dat

It means that the Tellyprompter program is using HTTP
protocol, and might be using .NET code to do it. (Developers
might also make use of the HTML engine used by Explorer.)
If there are any security issues associated with such activity,
they could be preventing the transfer.

I wouldn't have expected the "Programmes.dat" file to exist,
if the program hadn't succeeded at least once, in connecting
to xmltv.radiotimes.com . There would be no point in the
program installer, installing a stale old Programmes.dat .
Only one fetched and saved, would be worthwhile.

Paul
Tried to manually download http://xmltv.radiotimes.com/xmltv/92.dat and
it hung at 2.5 KB of 184.9 KB when using Firefox, IE9, Chrome, and a
download manager. So I think the problem isn't Teleprompter itself, but
something else.
 
P

Paul

Dex said:
Tried to manually download http://xmltv.radiotimes.com/xmltv/92.dat and
it hung at 2.5 KB of 184.9 KB when using Firefox, IE9, Chrome, and a
download manager. So I think the problem isn't Teleprompter itself, but
something else.
I tried it here, and got 189,318 bytes for my 92.dat file. Using
Firefox (an older version) as my browser.

I'd probably debug with a packet sniffer, and see if the
problem occurs at the source (you get cut off before it
finishes). Like maybe the other end sends an RST.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireshark

Paul
 
D

Dex

I tried it here, and got 189,318 bytes for my 92.dat file. Using
Firefox (an older version) as my browser.

I'd probably debug with a packet sniffer, and see if the
problem occurs at the source (you get cut off before it
finishes). Like maybe the other end sends an RST.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireshark

Paul
Tethering a 3G phone from Three and Wireshark says "No interface can be
used for capturing in this system with the current configuration".

:(
 

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