Slow Booting

[AlDrake]

Ditto! A very strong ditto!

Ya, RIIIIIGtt. Let's see just how long it takes to talk about this and
eventually fix it. I would have the OS reinstalled many times over by
now, fixed and have moved on. Get over yourself.

I have far better things to do than spend any time taking out the
trash. Do any of you actually think a business would spend any time
playing kids games? Time is money.

 

[Dave-UK]

Ya, RIIIIIGtt. Let's see just how long it takes to talk about this and
eventually fix it. I would have the OS reinstalled many times over by
now, fixed and have moved on. Get over yourself.

I have far better things to do than spend any time taking out the
trash. Do any of you actually think a business would spend any time
playing kids games? Time is money.

This isn't a business-oriented newsgroup.
If you don't like the posts then don't subscribe to this newsgroup.

 

[Mellowed]

Ya, RIIIIIGtt. Let's see just how long it takes to talk about this and
eventually fix it. I would have the OS reinstalled many times over by
now, fixed and have moved on. Get over yourself.

I have far better things to do than spend any time taking out the
trash. Do any of you actually think a business would spend any time
playing kids games? Time is money.

??? This isn't about Al. Most of us would like to understand a
problem. Time is not money here. You should just take the computer to
a shop then pick it up when fixed so that you could make the best of
your time. Your time is obviously more valuable then getting to
understand a computer.

 

[Paul]

Thanks Paul. Can you glean from what I pasted below what may be
wrong? Thanks.

Log Name: Microsoft-Windows-Diagnostics-Performance/Operational
Source: Microsoft-Windows-Diagnostics-Performance
Date: 4/20/2013 10:06:39 AM
Event ID: 100
Task Category: Boot Performance Monitoring
Level: Critical
Keywords: Event Log
User: LOCAL SERVICE
Computer: **********
Description:
Windows has started up:
Boot Duration : 381581ms
IsDegradation : false
Incident Time (UTC) : ?2013?-?04?-?20T13:59:24.671600300Z
Event Xml:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
<System>
<Provider Name="Microsoft-Windows-Diagnostics-Performance"
Guid="{*******************************************" />
<EventID>100</EventID>
<Version>2</Version>
<Level>1</Level>
<Task>4002</Task>
<Opcode>34</Opcode>
<Keywords>0x8000000000010000</Keywords>
<TimeCreated SystemTime="2013-04-20T14:06:39.319962800Z" />
<EventRecordID>3750</EventRecordID>
<Correlation ActivityID="{02F10C70-F800-0006-67C0-E143CF3DCE01}"
/>
<Execution ProcessID="1484" ThreadID="5008" />

<Channel>Microsoft-Windows-Diagnostics-Performance/Operational</Channel>
<Computer>***********</Computer>
<Security UserID="**********" />
</System>
<EventData>
<Data Name="BootTsVersion">2</Data>
<Data Name="BootStartTime">2013-04-20T13:59:24.671600300Z</Data>
<Data Name="BootEndTime">2013-04-20T14:06:34.983155200Z</Data>
<Data Name="SystemBootInstance">981</Data>
<Data Name="UserBootInstance">937</Data>
<Data Name="BootTime">381581</Data>
<Data Name="MainPathBootTime">301196</Data>
<Data Name="BootKernelInitTime">23</Data>
<Data Name="BootDriverInitTime">220709</Data>
<Data Name="BootDevicesInitTime">2046</Data>
<Data Name="BootPrefetchInitTime">0</Data>
<Data Name="BootPrefetchBytes">0</Data>
<Data Name="BootAutoChkTime">0</Data>
<Data Name="BootSmssInitTime">17933</Data>
<Data Name="BootCriticalServicesInitTime">5210</Data>
<Data Name="BootUserProfileProcessingTime">6585</Data>
<Data Name="BootMachineProfileProcessingTime">205</Data>
<Data Name="BootExplorerInitTime">35334</Data>
<Data Name="BootNumStartupApps">1</Data>
<Data Name="BootPostBootTime">80385</Data>
<Data Name="BootIsRebootAfterInstall">false</Data>
<Data Name="BootRootCauseStepImprovementBits">17408</Data>
<Data Name="BootRootCauseGradualImprovementBits">1049600</Data>
<Data Name="BootRootCauseStepDegradationBits">8</Data>
<Data Name="BootRootCauseGradualDegradationBits">0</Data>
<Data Name="BootIsDegradation">false</Data>
<Data Name="BootIsStepDegradation">false</Data>
<Data Name="BootIsGradualDegradation">false</Data>
<Data Name="BootImprovementDelta">122555</Data>
<Data Name="BootDegradationDelta">0</Data>
<Data Name="BootIsRootCauseIdentified">true</Data>
<Data Name="OSLoaderDuration">2465</Data>
<Data Name="BootPNPInitStartTimeMS">23</Data>
<Data Name="BootPNPInitDuration">2746</Data>
<Data Name="OtherKernelInitDuration">5132</Data>
<Data Name="SystemPNPInitStartTimeMS">7669</Data>
<Data Name="SystemPNPInitDuration">220009</Data>
<Data Name="SessionInitStartTimeMS">227888</Data>
<Data Name="Session0InitDuration">6459</Data>
<Data Name="Session1InitDuration">560</Data>
<Data Name="SessionInitOtherDuration">10913</Data>
<Data Name="WinLogonStartTimeMS">245822</Data>
<Data Name="OtherLogonInitActivityDuration">13248</Data>
<Data Name="UserLogonWaitDuration">48730</Data>
</EventData>
</Event>

Your SystemPNPInitDuration 220009 is high. That's 220 seconds
to discover your hardware.

The link I quoted, the example there has a SystemPNPInitDuration
of 3295 or 3.295 seconds. Yours is like, 60 times higher.

Now, that doesn't guarantee your system has a problem during PNP
hardware detection. It could be any parallel activity (some
other part of boot), which is preventing PNP from finishing
in a timely manner. Like, the CPU is railed for some reason.
Some parts of a boot process, can run in parallel.

On WinXP, there was the optional package BootVis (Microsoft).
BootVis was discontinued, and isn't available past WinXP.
And one other poster mentioned Soluto (third-party ?).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootvis

In this BootVis example, you could see "drivers" and "prefetching"
running in parallel. So one activity, might interfere with the other.
Soluto is unlikely to give this level of detail. And BootVis is
discontinued.

http://attachments.techguy.org/attachments/119252d1194304456/bootvis-graphs.jpg

Soluto focuses on Startup Items. That would be activities
happening after PNP is finished. So I don't think Soluto
would necessarily help with that 220 seconds problem.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/197095/Soluto_Utility_Shrinks_PC_Boot_Times_Fixes_Problems.html

BootVis was the thing that could shine the most light on the
problem.

On WinXP, I would also be looking in setupapi.log, as
driver installation (part of PNP for new hardware) is
logged in there. If all the hardware on your system,
was being rediscovered on each boot process, that
might account for part of the time. On Windows 7, I'm
not sure the setupapi thing works quite the same way,
and might not be as rich a source of diagnostic info.

You can also check your Event viewer. The Event viewer
might not even be running at the point in time that
PNP has problems. Maybe a side effect of spending too much
time in PNP, would be logged in there, somewhere.

So that leaves only BootVis or equivalent, as a possible
solution. And I don't know if any third party tools,
go that far back in time (i.e. before Startup Items).
I expect the OS will always have the instrumentation
hooks - but it's up to Microsoft to actually use
them for our advantage, and not just theirs (development
environment). They could, for example, log the time of
each PNP event, so a particular "Stinker" in there would
stand out. As it stands now, we know some part of your
hardware, *might* be slow, but really have no hints as
to what.

Run HDTune, and look at the SMART tab. That will give info
about your hard drive. If there is a hard drive health
problem, tell us what you see (not all the "yellow marks"
in there are valid ones). And if you're getting "error 5"
when using HDTune, then the program needs to be
run as administrator (elevated), to gain access
to hardware.

http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe

In this example of HDTune SMART, the Spin Retry Count
is bogus. The reallocated sector count and current pending sector
are both Data=0 and are OK. Hardware ECC is "normal", in the
sense that the disk corrects errors on a regular basis, as
it is reading sectors. I only consider a couple of fields
in there, to be leading indicators of trouble.

http://forums.vr-zone.com/photopost/data/500/HDTune_Health_ST3200822A.jpg

Paul

 

[AlDrake]

This isn't a business-oriented newsgroup.
If you don't like the posts then don't subscribe to this newsgroup.

It's a 7 newsgroup and whether you like it or not many use this OS for
many things. Deal with it.

 

[AlDrake]

??? This isn't about Al. Most of us would like to understand a
problem. Time is not money here. You should just take the computer to
a shop then pick it up when fixed so that you could make the best of
your time. Your time is obviously more valuable then getting to
understand a computer.

I offered a solution that is far more efficient than spending
countless hours fixing something that could have been avoided from the
start is proper care had been taken. I stand by my solution even if it's
unpopular.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

I offered a solution that is far more efficient than spending
countless hours fixing something that could have been avoided from the
start is proper care had been taken. I stand by my solution even if it's
unpopular.

Efficiency is not the only criterion. Understanding is valuable to some
of us.

 

[Ricky Jimenez]

Run HDTune, and look at the SMART tab. That will give info
about your hard drive. If there is a hard drive health
problem, tell us what you see (not all the "yellow marks"
in there are valid ones). And if you're getting "error 5"
when using HDTune, then the program needs to be
run as administrator (elevated), to gain access
to hardware.

Ia m not familiar with the program Paul and I didn't see a Smart tab
although a S.M.A.R.T. feature is listed on the Info tab. Nothing came
up on the Health tab after running the benchmark. But here is what I
got on the benchmark tab to the right of the graph.

HD Tune: WDC WD1001FAES-75W7A Benchmark

Transfer Rate Minimum : 44.3 MB/sec
Transfer Rate Maximum : 136.1 MB/sec
Transfer Rate Average : 101.5 MB/sec
Access Time : 16.5 ms
Burst Rate : 119.0 MB/sec
CPU Usage : -1.0%

 

[Ken Blake]

Before using the Registry cleaner function in Ccleaner, I would back up the
Registry and also make a Restore point.

Yes, if someone insists on using a registry cleaner (*any* registry
cleaner), it's always wise to do that.

*However*, if the registry cleaner screws things up badly enough, the
system may be unbootable, so it's not great to rely on that.

 

[Buffalo]

"Ken Blake" wrote in message

Yes, if someone insists on using a registry cleaner (*any* registry
cleaner), it's always wise to do that.

*However*, if the registry cleaner screws things up badly enough, the
system may be unbootable, so it's not great to rely on that.

Excellent point.
Registry cleaners can cause more problems than they do good.
A good backup and/or the procedure to boot up when a normal boot doesn't
work, is extremely valuable,
Buffalo

 

[Ricky Jimenez]

Ia m not familiar with the program Paul and I didn't see a Smart tab
although a S.M.A.R.T. feature is listed on the Info tab. Nothing came
up on the Health tab after running the benchmark. But here is what I
got on the benchmark tab to the right of the graph.

HD Tune: WDC WD1001FAES-75W7A Benchmark

Transfer Rate Minimum : 44.3 MB/sec
Transfer Rate Maximum : 136.1 MB/sec
Transfer Rate Average : 101.5 MB/sec
Access Time : 16.5 ms
Burst Rate : 119.0 MB/sec
CPU Usage : -1.0%

I downloaded the trial version of HD Tune Pro 5.5 and got this:

HD Tune Pro: WDC WD1001FAES-75W7A Benchmark

Test capacity: full

Read transfer rate
Transfer Rate Minimum : 54.6 MB/s
Transfer Rate Maximum : 136.1 MB/s
Transfer Rate Average : 102.3 MB/s
Access Time : 16.9 ms
Burst Rate : 156.3 MB/s
CPU Usage : 26.9%


HD Tune Pro: WDC WD1001FAES-75W7A Health

ID Current Worst ThresholdData Status
(01) Raw Read Error Rate 200 200 51 0 ok
(03) Spin Up Time 171 170 21 4408 ok
(04) Start/Stop Count 99 99 0 1678 ok
(05) Reallocated Sector Count 200 200 140 0 ok
(07) Seek Error Rate 100 253 0 0 ok
(09) Power On Hours Count 84 84 0 11709 ok
(0A) Spin Retry Count 100 100 0 0 ok
(0B) Calibration Retry Count 100 100 0 0 ok
(0C) Power Cycle Count 99 99 0 1668 ok
(C0) Unsafe Shutdown Count 200 200 0 25 ok
(C1) Load Cycle Count 200 200 0 1652 ok
(C2) Temperature 108 102 0 39 ok
(C4) Reallocated Event Count 200 200 0 0 ok
(C5) Current Pending Sector 200 200 0 0 ok
(C6) Offline Uncorrectable 200 200 0 0 ok
(C7) Interface CRC Error Count 200 200 0 0 ok
(C8) Write Error Rate 200 200 0 0 ok
(F0) Head Flying Hours 85 85 0 11387 ok
(F1) Unknown Attribute 200 200 0 53309123953
ok
(F2) Unknown Attribute 200 200 0 98787959083
ok

Health Status : ok

 

[Paul]

I downloaded the trial version of HD Tune Pro 5.5 and got this:

HD Tune Pro: WDC WD1001FAES-75W7A Benchmark

Test capacity: full

Read transfer rate
Transfer Rate Minimum : 54.6 MB/s
Transfer Rate Maximum : 136.1 MB/s
Transfer Rate Average : 102.3 MB/s
Access Time : 16.9 ms
Burst Rate : 156.3 MB/s
CPU Usage : 26.9%


HD Tune Pro: WDC WD1001FAES-75W7A Health

ID Current Worst ThresholdData Status
(01) Raw Read Error Rate 200 200 51 0 ok
(03) Spin Up Time 171 170 21 4408 ok
(04) Start/Stop Count 99 99 0 1678 ok
(05) Reallocated Sector Count 200 200 140 0 ok
(07) Seek Error Rate 100 253 0 0 ok
(09) Power On Hours Count 84 84 0 11709 ok
(0A) Spin Retry Count 100 100 0 0 ok
(0B) Calibration Retry Count 100 100 0 0 ok
(0C) Power Cycle Count 99 99 0 1668 ok
(C0) Unsafe Shutdown Count 200 200 0 25 ok
(C1) Load Cycle Count 200 200 0 1652 ok
(C2) Temperature 108 102 0 39 ok
(C4) Reallocated Event Count 200 200 0 0 ok
(C5) Current Pending Sector 200 200 0 0 ok
(C6) Offline Uncorrectable 200 200 0 0 ok
(C7) Interface CRC Error Count 200 200 0 0 ok
(C8) Write Error Rate 200 200 0 0 ok
(F0) Head Flying Hours 85 85 0 11387 ok
(F1) Unknown Attribute 200 200 0 53309123953
ok
(F2) Unknown Attribute 200 200 0 98787959083
ok

Health Status : ok

That part looks fine. SMART looks good.

A benchmark of your drive, is shown here.

http://obrazki.elektroda.net/19_1289733876.jpg

The blue line has:

1) Classical stair-step behavior. The platter has a "zoned" layout.
2) Slowdown as a function of platter circumference versus track number.
That's why the curve has the general form that it does.
3) Sample plot has no wide downward spikes. If you see downward spikes
that last for a significant distance, that means there is a bad spot
in the disk, where the spike shows up. Tiny spikes are benchmark
anomalies. The sample plot has no anomalies to speak of.
4) You can see a few seek time dots, fall outside the general
trend area, but I don't consider that to be an issue. I don't
think I have any drive here, that's completely clean that way.

So some other piece of hardware, is delaying the startup. Or
some other activity that is happening in parallel. I would try to
find any log that records driver installation, to see if something
like that is happening on each and every boot. (Like, hardware
enum got deleted, and hardware needs to be rediscovered on each boot.)

Make a thorough inventory of hardware in the computer. USB memory card
reader ? TV Tuner card ? Anything which is out of the ordinary.

It's also possible (but unlikely), that some card has an interrupt
storm problem. I have a RealTek based network card here. When I run
it under Linux now, Linux reports an interrupt storm. That would
cause excessive time wastage, clearing the interrupts. Effectively
reducing the available CPU speed for other things. My network
card is based on RTL8169SC. Since getting that report from Linux,
I pulled the card (it was left there from some benchmarking
I was doing).

You could run a Linux LiveCD, fire up a Terminal and run

dmesg

and check the startup log to see if any anomalous behavior
is detected by the Linux drivers as they start up. The
"dmesg" log is a relatively verbose log, compared to what
Windows would offer you. I've discovered a few things that way.

Windows has the Performance Monitor, which displays counters
the OS keeps. (Available from Win2K onwards.) I think there is
at least one counter, which gives an overall interrupt count
per second. If that was over 10,000 per second, then there would
be a serious hardware problem. You can have a fair number of
interrupts per second, if you alt-tab out of a game, and the
game keeps conversing with the video card. But it won't get
to the 10,000 per second level that way.

http://www.techrepublic.com/article/working-with-microsoft-windows-2000s-performance-monitor/1046916

Paul

 

[Jim]

I offered a solution that is far more efficient than spending
countless hours fixing something that could have been avoided from the
start is proper care had been taken. I stand by my solution even if it's
unpopular.

Your point is valid. I can usually fix all problems but if it is going
to take too much time to fix a complex problem then I might reinstall
the system as you suggested.

My customers don't like high repair bills, so for me it is whatever is
the fasted way to get the job done (properly) and keep my customers
happy. I can't spend too many hours on a job or it doesn't pay, gotta
get it fixed and out the door! Time is indeed money! A lot of people
get seperation anxiety when the don't have their computers so there is
often some pressure to get the job done.

Jimmy L

 

[s|b]

Download and install Malwarebytes & Superantispyware from
http://ninite.com/ and scan the computer. First Malwarebytes then
Superantispyware or the other way around just not both at once.

Why download from a third party site like ninite.com? SUPERAntispyware
Free can be downloaded from

<http://www.superantispyware.com/downloadfile.html?productid=SUPERANTISPYWAREFREE>

and Malwarebytes Anti-Malware can be downloaded here:

<http://downloads.malwarebytes.org/mbam-download.php>

 

[AlDrake]

Your point is valid. I can usually fix all problems but if it is going
to take too much time to fix a complex problem then I might reinstall
the system as you suggested.

My customers don't like high repair bills, so for me it is whatever is
the fasted way to get the job done (properly) and keep my customers
happy. I can't spend too many hours on a job or it doesn't pay, gotta
get it fixed and out the door! Time is indeed money! A lot of people
get seperation anxiety when the don't have their computers so there is
often some pressure to get the job done.

Jimmy L

Good point. This is basically all I was saying from the start and I
was all of a sudden guilty of being lazy. I tried to point out that I
have a life beyond 7 but it seems most in this groups have no life and
rather spend it indoors playing. Sad.............

 

[s|b]

So will Cleanmgr, which (a) comes with Windows and (b) won't frack up
your System Registry.

Neither will CCleaner if you don't let it. And if you do, chances are
small your registry will be f*cked. In any case, it's always a good idea
to create a backup (image) /before/ messing with the registry. But I
don't believe a registry cleaner will make a computer go faster...

 

[s|b]

Get a solid state drive.

+1

 

[Mellowed]

Good point. This is basically all I was saying from the start and I
was all of a sudden guilty of being lazy. I tried to point out that I
have a life beyond 7 but it seems most in this groups have no life and
rather spend it indoors playing. Sad.............

You really go out of your way to justify your point of view. There is a
HUGE difference between a business decision (Jimmy L) and somebody
trying to understand and fix their computer. And you say that because
somebody wants to understand the problem they have no life??? Now that
is really SAD.

 

[Krypto]

Why download from a third party site like ninite.com? SUPERAntispyware
Free can be downloaded from

<http://www.superantispyware.com/downloadfile.html?productid=SUPERANTISPYWAREFREE>

and Malwarebytes Anti-Malware can be downloaded here:

<http://downloads.malwarebytes.org/mbam-download.php>


Why download from a third party site like ninite.com? SUPERAntispyware
Free can be downloaded from

Have you looked at Ninite.com? The site has many useful free
installers for the most common things you need. You can pick several
programs and you get one installer that installs them all onto your
computer consecutively with no spyware, no Ask toolbars etc. Great
site if you need to install several items fast or even just to get an
installer for one program. The nice part is that you just click
install, no boxes to check or uncheck, no toolbars, just a smooth
installation of your programs and you can find most of them on ONE
site, Ninite.com

When I redo a system I go to Ninite and download one installer that
might put 10 or more programs on my computer. Just one click and the
install is all done in a short time with no interaction on your part.
You should check it out, it really saves a lot of time. You will find
everything from browsers, messaging apps, Itunes. quicktime, Java,
Flash, .net, Shockwave, imaging programs like Infranview, Gimp,
Picassa, Document readers like Foxit, Libreoffice, Adobe Reader.
Security programs like Malwarebytes, Superantispyware and so many more
programs all in ONE place and super easy to install. No need to hunt
all over the net, most of the common free programs are there.

So to answer your question: That's why I use Ninite.com.

Krypto

 

[s|b]

So to answer your question: That's why I use Ninite.com.

Tnx. To be honest, I was already convinced after I read ' no Ask
toolbars'.