Running XP Programs on Windows 7 Home Premium


G

Gene Wirchenko

Dear Win7ers:

My Windows 7 Professional desktop system came with Virtual
Windows XP. With a bit of work, I was able to get it running my
16-bit programming utilities.

My laptop has Windows 7 Home Premium. According to Microsoft's
Webpage on it, I do not get to use Virtual Windows XP on my laptop.

What are my alternatives, or how do I get around this? I want
something that has a window in my Windows 7 desktop that I can quickly
switch to and from.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
 
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K

Ken Springer

Dear Win7ers:

My Windows 7 Professional desktop system came with Virtual
Windows XP. With a bit of work, I was able to get it running my
16-bit programming utilities.

My laptop has Windows 7 Home Premium. According to Microsoft's
Webpage on it, I do not get to use Virtual Windows XP on my laptop.

What are my alternatives, or how do I get around this? I want
something that has a window in my Windows 7 desktop that I can quickly
switch to and from.
I know of 4 alternatives:

1. Parallels Workstation http://www.parallels.com/products/workstation/
2. VMware Workstation 9
http://www.vmware.com/products/workstation/overview.html
3. Virtual Box https://www.virtualbox.org/
4. Qemu http://wiki.qemu.org/Index.html

I've always wondered if the previous MS Virtual PC 2007 virtual machine
software from MS would run under Windows 7, but I've never tried it,
since I don't have a decent Win7 machine.

I've also wondered if XP Mode for Win 7 was a standalone program. If
so, and you had a copy, would it run under Home? Like the old XP Backup
and Restore program is standalone, and would run just fine under XP
Home, AFAIK.

Hope this helps.

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 17.0
Thunderbird 17.0
LibreOffice 3.6.3.2
 
S

Steve Hayes

Dear Win7ers:

My Windows 7 Professional desktop system came with Virtual
Windows XP. With a bit of work, I was able to get it running my
16-bit programming utilities.

My laptop has Windows 7 Home Premium. According to Microsoft's
Webpage on it, I do not get to use Virtual Windows XP on my laptop.

What are my alternatives, or how do I get around this? I want
something that has a window in my Windows 7 desktop that I can quickly
switch to and from.
That's why I switched mine to the 32-bit version, as soon as I saw that a lot
of programs that I use frequently wouldn't run in the 64-bit version.
 
P

Paul

Ken said:
I know of 4 alternatives:

1. Parallels Workstation http://www.parallels.com/products/workstation/
2. VMware Workstation 9
http://www.vmware.com/products/workstation/overview.html
3. Virtual Box https://www.virtualbox.org/
4. Qemu http://wiki.qemu.org/Index.html

I've always wondered if the previous MS Virtual PC 2007 virtual machine
software from MS would run under Windows 7, but I've never tried it,
since I don't have a decent Win7 machine.

I've also wondered if XP Mode for Win 7 was a standalone program. If
so, and you had a copy, would it run under Home? Like the old XP Backup
and Restore program is standalone, and would run just fine under XP
Home, AFAIK.

Hope this helps.
WinXP Mode consists of two software components.

1) Windows Virtual PC. This is the Windows 7 version of VPC2007,
with dumbed down GUI. The GUI makes it pure misery to work with.
VPC2007 had a functional interface, so they couldn't keep it :-(

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=3702

2) WinXP Mode image (500MB?) . This would be an image file containing
a pre-licensed copy of WinXP. I've never downloaded this or run it,
since I'm running Premium on the laptop.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=8002

You can download just the Windows Virtual PC part. Then, use
a retail or OEM WinXP CD and license key, and install that. I
can't tell you though, whether that's functionally identical to (2).

One thing that WinXP Mode uses, is Terminal Services RDP, so
that a program launched in WinXP guest "floats" without a VM
frame being drawn around it. That's different than how
VPC2007 works for example. In VPC2007, the WinXP virtual machine
would have a frame drawn around it. The Terminal Service RDP
method is used, to make it look like WinXP Mode programs are
"integrated" into the Windows 7 desktop.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_xp_mode#Windows_XP_Mode

Actually, WinXP Mode supports both. It can "make the floating windows".
It can also be run rooted, with a frame drawn around the WinXP session.
For some "configuration" operations, a user needs to run the
rooted mode, in order to use Control Panels and the like.

I've installed (1) on my Windows 7 laptop, and I may even have installed
a "foreign" OS in it. But it wasn't a lot of fun, in terms of
exchanging files between the two environments. I think I eventually
removed it, as it was too much misery for me. Also, I wanted to
run VirtualBox for a test, and my policy is generally to only
have one VM environment on the machine at a time. The VM tools
may each have their own drivers, and I don't want to be testing
how many shims can be supported in the network stack at one
time :) Call me a doubter...

To give an example of how VM software isn't entirely benign,
take VPC2007 on my current machine. I've experienced variations
in floppy drive data transfer rate, as a function of whether
the VM software has been run since the computer was booted.
And for some reason, it was the inverse of what you'd expect.
The machine seemed to be blowing the interleave factor, if
the VM floppy shim had not loaded. So if I'd never run VPC2007
in a WinXP session, the floppy would run at about half speed.
Then, if I fired up VPC2007 (and didn't even use the floppy),
the floppy speed would return to normal. That example
is intended to show, that *something* is done to hardware
interfaces, to make them accessible to the emulations done
in the guest. In that case, the guest can access the floppy
if needed. In fact, it's how a person might run MSDOS
in there (from a boot floppy).

Paul
 
S

Stan Brown

Dear Win7ers:

My Windows 7 Professional desktop system came with Virtual
Windows XP. With a bit of work, I was able to get it running my
16-bit programming utilities.

My laptop has Windows 7 Home Premium. According to Microsoft's
Webpage on it, I do not get to use Virtual Windows XP on my laptop.

What are my alternatives, or how do I get around this? I want
something that has a window in my Windows 7 desktop that I can quickly
switch to and from.
It depends on what you mean by "quickly". You can install VMWare
Player or VirtualBox or another virtual machine program, but you'll
need a license for the copy of Windows XP that you install in a
virtual machine.
 
S

Stan Brown

WinXP Mode consists of two software components.

1) Windows Virtual PC.

2) WinXP Mode image (500MB?) .

You can download just the Windows Virtual PC part
Not if you have Windows 7 Home Premium, at least not when I tried it
about a year ago.
 
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J

John Williamson

Stan said:
Not if you have Windows 7 Home Premium, at least not when I tried it
about a year ago.
MS Virtual PC 2007 SP1 will install on 7 HP, but is not supported.

If it works and will support XP under Windows 7, you would need a spare
copy of XP that you could install and activate.
 
E

Ed Cryer

Gene said:
Dear Win7ers:

My Windows 7 Professional desktop system came with Virtual
Windows XP. With a bit of work, I was able to get it running my
16-bit programming utilities.

My laptop has Windows 7 Home Premium. According to Microsoft's
Webpage on it, I do not get to use Virtual Windows XP on my laptop.

What are my alternatives, or how do I get around this? I want
something that has a window in my Windows 7 desktop that I can quickly
switch to and from.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
Win7 HP has a "compatibility mode" setting for individual apps. You
right-click on the app, Properties, Compatibility tab. It claims to be
able to cover everything from Win95 upwards.

What is this? Does it work?

Ed
 
W

Wolf K

Win7 HP has a "compatibility mode" setting for individual apps. You
right-click on the app, Properties, Compatibility tab. It claims to be
able to cover everything from Win95 upwards.

What is this? Does it work?

Ed

Don't know exactly what it is, but it works. You'll likely need it only
for orphan programs. Updated older programs in my experience run without
issues in W7.
 
J

John Williamson

Wolf said:
Don't know exactly what it is, but it works. You'll likely need it only
for orphan programs. Updated older programs in my experience run without
issues in W7.
It works on 32 bit programs only. There is no 16 bit support in Windows
7 Home Premium, and as the OP says he needs to run 16 bit utilities,
then it won't help. That's why a lot of early programs won't install
under Windows 7. They have a 16 bit install program.

There are also some older programs that require .dll's that were
included in Windows 95, 98, 2000 and XP but are not in Windows 7 or
Vista. Compatibility mode didn't help, but copying the missing .dll from
an XP machine into the C:\Windows\System32 folder did the job.

Depending on whether the 16 bit programs in question need a GUI or not
and just how old and fussy about exact MS compatibility they are, DOSBOX
may work.
 
B

BillW50

Win7 HP has a "compatibility mode" setting for individual apps. You
right-click on the app, Properties, Compatibility tab. It claims to be
able to cover everything from Win95 upwards.

What is this? Does it work?

Ed
Some programs check to see what OS they are running under. And this is
what "compatibility mode" does. As it tells the program it is something
different than what it really is.
 
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W

Wolf K

It works on 32 bit programs only. There is no 16 bit support in Windows
7 Home Premium, and as the OP says he needs to run 16 bit utilities,
then it won't help. That's why a lot of early programs won't install
under Windows 7. They have a 16 bit install program.

There are also some older programs that require .dll's that were
included in Windows 95, 98, 2000 and XP but are not in Windows 7 or
Vista. Compatibility mode didn't help, but copying the missing .dll from
an XP machine into the C:\Windows\System32 folder did the job.

Depending on whether the 16 bit programs in question need a GUI or not
and just how old and fussy about exact MS compatibility they are, DOSBOX
may work.
Agreed, but I would rather dual boot, and use a common data partition if
data is to be used by old and new programs.
 
B

BillW50

It works on 32 bit programs only. There is no 16 bit support in Windows
7 Home Premium, and as the OP says he needs to run 16 bit utilities,
then it won't help. That's why a lot of early programs won't install
under Windows 7. They have a 16 bit install program.

There are also some older programs that require .dll's that were
included in Windows 95, 98, 2000 and XP but are not in Windows 7 or
Vista. Compatibility mode didn't help, but copying the missing .dll from
an XP machine into the C:\Windows\System32 folder did the job.

Depending on whether the 16 bit programs in question need a GUI or not
and just how old and fussy about exact MS compatibility they are, DOSBOX
may work.
Well I don't know what you mean by no 16-bit support in Windows Home
Premium. Maybe the 64 bit version, but not so for the 32 bit version. As
I just ran WordStar v5 (developed in 1988) in both Windows 7 Home
Premium and Windows 8 Pro and it runs just fine. The only thing lost
from running under XP was it must run in a window and can't run in full
screen.
 
J

John Williamson

BillW50 said:
Well I don't know what you mean by no 16-bit support in Windows Home
Premium. Maybe the 64 bit version, but not so for the 32 bit version. As
I just ran WordStar v5 (developed in 1988) in both Windows 7 Home
Premium and Windows 8 Pro and it runs just fine. The only thing lost
from running under XP was it must run in a window and can't run in full
screen.
I was certainly under the impression that 16 bit support only came with
the XP VM. I run 32 bit, as this machine won't handle 64 bit.

Or is it a case of supporting DOS but not 16 bit Windows?

I wonder if Borland Sprint would run under 7? I've certainly had
problems with some DOS programs that I've tried, though. Then again,
some of them won't even run under '95.
 
K

Ken Springer

Ken Springer wrote:


WinXP Mode consists of two software components.

1) Windows Virtual PC. This is the Windows 7 version of VPC2007,
with dumbed down GUI. The GUI makes it pure misery to work with.
VPC2007 had a functional interface, so they couldn't keep it :-(

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=3702

2) WinXP Mode image (500MB?) . This would be an image file containing
a pre-licensed copy of WinXP. I've never downloaded this or run it,
since I'm running Premium on the laptop.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=8002

You can download just the Windows Virtual PC part. Then, use
a retail or OEM WinXP CD and license key, and install that. I
can't tell you though, whether that's functionally identical to (2).
<sigh> More MS user unfriendliness. You have to validate your Windows
installation *before* you can download either program.

I'm not referring to the validation process, I'm all for having a legal
copy of the OS. But doesn't the brain trust ever consider that the user
may not be using a Windows computer to download the files, to be used
somewhere else? Then take the software to a pirated copy of the OS and
install. (I assume this will work, I don't have any pirated installs.)
If the programs don't validate during the installation, they should.

And the process may be somewhat browser specific. Firefox 17.0 under
XP, using the default setting after update, doesn't give you the Run
option for validation, you have to save the file. Under IE, it
validated the XP install automatically. I think if I ran the validation
program saved, things would work fine, as there's an option to enter a
validation code. I didn't take the time to try it.

FYI, I did this using Parallels Desktop 7 for Mac.
One thing that WinXP Mode uses, is Terminal Services RDP, so
that a program launched in WinXP guest "floats" without a VM
frame being drawn around it. That's different than how
VPC2007 works for example. In VPC2007, the WinXP virtual machine
would have a frame drawn around it. The Terminal Service RDP
method is used, to make it look like WinXP Mode programs are
"integrated" into the Windows 7 desktop.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_xp_mode#Windows_XP_Mode

Actually, WinXP Mode supports both. It can "make the floating windows".
It can also be run rooted, with a frame drawn around the WinXP session.
For some "configuration" operations, a user needs to run the
rooted mode, in order to use Control Panels and the like.
By "frame", I'm guessing you are saying the VM is running in a Window
dedicated to the VM. And all software windows running in the VM will be
in the VM windows. By "floating", I'm guessing you mean the software
windows are on the desktop just as if those programs were being run by
the Windows 7.

If the above is correct, Parallels Desktop does the same.

<snip>


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 17.0
Thunderbird 17.0
LibreOffice 3.6.3.2
 
E

Ed Cryer

BillW50 said:
Some programs check to see what OS they are running under. And this is
what "compatibility mode" does. As it tells the program it is something
different than what it really is.
Sheesh man, it must do a bit more than that!
That sounds a bit like getting past the bouncer into a nightclub, but
not how to talk to people inside it.

Ed
 
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B

BillW50

Sheesh man, it must do a bit more than that!
That sounds a bit like getting past the bouncer into a nightclub, but
not how to talk to people inside it.

Ed
Nope, that is the big secret. Amazing how well that trick works when it
works. MS-DOS had a similar command to lie to the program telling it was
a different version than what it really was too. ;-)
 
S

Steve Hayes

It works on 32 bit programs only. There is no 16 bit support in Windows
7 Home Premium, and as the OP says he needs to run 16 bit utilities,
then it won't help. That's why a lot of early programs won't install
under Windows 7. They have a 16 bit install program.

There are also some older programs that require .dll's that were
included in Windows 95, 98, 2000 and XP but are not in Windows 7 or
Vista. Compatibility mode didn't help, but copying the missing .dll from
an XP machine into the C:\Windows\System32 folder did the job.

Depending on whether the 16 bit programs in question need a GUI or not
and just how old and fussy about exact MS compatibility they are, DOSBOX
may work.
I use some 8-bit DOS utilities regularly in Windows 7 Home Premium. The only
problem with them is that they don't like long file names.
 
S

Steve Hayes

I was certainly under the impression that 16 bit support only came with
the XP VM. I run 32 bit, as this machine won't handle 64 bit.

Or is it a case of supporting DOS but not 16 bit Windows?

I wonder if Borland Sprint would run under 7? I've certainly had
problems with some DOS programs that I've tried, though. Then again,
some of them won't even run under '95.
Some Borland programs (such as those developed in Turbo Pascal) won't run with
fast processors. It is not a Windows problem, but a hardware problem.
 
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J

John Williamson

Steve said:
Some Borland programs (such as those developed in Turbo Pascal) won't run with
fast processors. It is not a Windows problem, but a hardware problem.
I think the install floppies are in the loft. Next time I'm up there...
 

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