In need of a new notebook soon

[catilley1092]

Today, my notebook has folded it last job. For over a year, it's had to endure extreme heat (close to the 100C mark), 101C was it breaking point, it would crash. It even burned my leg once, leaving a scar. For this reason, I don't call them "laptops" any longer, as it's a misleading safety issue. The HDD has rattled under load for months. If someone had at this time last year had told me that it would make it another year, I'd have laughed.

I really don't know what happened. A couple of weeks ago, I installed Win Vista SP2 on it, it had a much better looking screen than XP could ever dream of, and it folded a job every 20 or so hours, it's best in some time. As I said, the drive was already rattling, when I returned from the store today, I heard a knocking sound, I went in the direction of the sound, there was my notebook, with a frozen screen, crystal clear, but I could not move the mouse, not even to shut it down.

When I did shut it down, and restarted it, it sounded as though the HDD were bouncing back & forth in it's case, but the notebook was unaware of it's presence, as I could only boot from the DVD-ROM. So I used a small empty partition of a WD Passport backup drive, and loaded a Mint OS onto it, the CPU froze at the end of the install. I was thinking, this is getting weird, first the HDD, now the CPU freezing? So I tried a reboot into it's HDD, the boot options showed, the knocking continued, then a "soft error" was reported. If this is "soft", I don't want to know what "hard" is.

So I done an extended test with Dell's 32 bit diagnostic disc, after only 5 minutes or so, the CPU locked down. I downloaded a .iso copy of Mem Test 86, it's running, but has frozen on one test for at least 6 hours now. I mean, it's spinning numbers, but the test is not progressing. Until I contact the company that it's under warranty through, I won't stop the test, either. But I don't get it, the HDD, CPU & RAM throwing in the towel on the same day?

Anyway, the $400 that it's insured for will go a long ways towards my next purchase. The best Toshiba that I can afford. I saw one that normally sells for $749 for $599 at Buy.com w/free shipping. Has the ATI Radeon Mobility HB 4250 Graphics, 4GB of DDR3 RAM (upgradable to 8GB), AMD Phenom II Quad Core P920 (1.6GHz) (one of the most recent, for notebooks), and that coveted eSATA port that I've been chasing for a year.

Now, what I don't understand is this. Why are the quad cores (especially in notebooks) have much lower GHz than respected dual cores do? This desktop has a 1.5GHz CPU, what's the deal here? This notebook is going to be primarily be a folder, I want it to churn out some points. Am I in the misunderstanding here, or are these quads on the soft side?

And the Intel i3 is out of the picture for me, that's the bottom of the "i" series as it gets. Mabye a top notch i5, but really, AMD gives the best performance for the dollar spent.

Most of the ones that I've seen has 5400RPM drives, but that doesn't matter, as it will soon be replaced with a SSD. I do have a plan of action in place, first the notebook, then the Anytime Upgrade to Pro, then the 8GB RAM (RAM prices are falling again, 8GB DDR3, 4GB x2, for less than $100), finally the SSD, preferably a 128GB one, if the price is right, a 256GB one.

But I need some advice on what I perceive to be low rated quad core CPU's, or is that all I can expect in a notebook? And will that, along with the 4250 Radeon graphics, be a decent folder?

Cat

 

[catilley1092]

I cannot believe this. Last night, I left the MemTest 86 disc that I downloaded & burned to run overnight. It never completed, so when I awoke this morning, I exited the operation and it rebooted on its own.

To my shocking surprise, it actually started up, but very slowly, and that "death rattle" returned, but much more noticable. Also, it took at least 3 minutes for the logon screen to appear. Not wanting to waste an opportunity to remove my TechNet software from it, I used the OEM reinstall disc to place XP Pro back onto it. The formatting process alone took nearly 2 hours, on a small 100GB (93GB usable) HDD.

After the install, it still starts up very slowly, but no doubt it's reprieve is going to be short lived. Actually, having a couple of extra paydays to save for my new one would be fine w/me. Plus, I still need to carefully choose my next notebook a lot more closely than I chose this desktop.

I haven't decided on the exact notebook that I'll purchase, but one thing that I wanted to ask, in addition to the low quad core GHz's that concerned me, is those combo USB/eSATA ports that are included on many mid range priced notebook computers. Are they any good? The ones that has this port as only eSATA are more expensive.

Thanks for any and all advice that's offered to me, it'll help me in my decision making.

Cat

 

[catilley1092]

After some researching, I decided to bump this thread a little, since I read some reviews, and discovered a couple of additional options to consider.

Although AMD & Intel i7 quads are excellent processors, and my search was limited to these, the notebooks that I've been viewing (Toshiba Satellite mid range) have not so excellent reviews. The grahpics, mainly the ATI Radeon 4250, and a low end Intel card, have been reported not so good in gaming, and are overpriced for what they are.

As I understand it, a good gaming computer, whether a notebook or desktop, makes a better folder. I may not be 100% correct in this, but that's what I've been reading, that graphic performance is just as important as the CPU is. That is, to run the GPU (high performance) client.

And speaking of graphics, would a dedicated card, such as the ATI Mobility Radeon 5650 (1GB), be preferred over an integral card, such as the popular ATI Radeon 4250? Also, would a upper end dual core, such as the Intel i5 480M (2.66GHz, w/Turbo Boost up to 2.93GHz) be just as good as those seemingly low end AMD quads? 1.5, 1.6 & 1.7GHz just doesn't look that impressive to me. I already have a dual core 1.5GHz CPU, is a couple of extra cores going to be that much better?

The reason that I ask these questions, is that I'm researching, and want to be better informed, as I'm soon going to have to make a decision as to what I need, as far as folding performance goes. So that I can begin to narrow down what I need to have for my intended purposes, and that's a notebook computer that will churn out some WU's & points in folding. The time is nearing.

According to what I've been reading (please correct me if I've misunderstood), but dedicated graphics are preferable over integral, aren't they? My desktop has integral graphics, I'd much rather that dedicated graphics (a separate video card, I assume) be here.

Any advice would be highly appreciated, good or bad, right or wrong, I need some direction as to what to look for.

Cat

 

[clifford_cooley]

If you are asking what hardware is better for folding@home, I've heard that AMD falls short on both CPU and GPU folding. AMD CPU's from what I can tell are comparable but I have heard others complain about point levels.

Aside from folding, if you compare using the charts in the following links, the benchmarks will lead you in the right direction.

• High End CPU's - Intel vs AMD
• High End Video Card Chart

 

[Nibiru2012]

You really don't need 8 GB of RAM, save your money instead and get a better notebook computer. Even during folding the most RAM used will probably be around 1.75 - 2.0 GB of RAM max.

The reason most Quad Core notebooks use the lower frequency CPU is because of heat. The higher the clock speed the more heat generated. Notebooks are not known for their efficient cooling to say the least.

 

[catilley1092]

Thanks c_c! I see what you're saying. The only AMD (Opteron 6176 SE) CPU near the top is one that's too pricey for most users, including me. The Phenom 6 core is way down the list.

What I'm going to have to do is sort of a balancing act, as notebooks doesn't have the very top of the line parts, probably due to the space within them to work with. Cooling, in particular, is an issue. And I do need a notebook, as I carry it with me when I'm gone for a while, or sitting in the sunroom or outdoors.

A quality cooling pad will be a mandatory necessity here.

There are mid range (my price range) Toshiba notebooks with i7 CPU's in them, but the integral graphics seems to be the main issue, and are major complaints in customer reviews for the brand, as far as gaming or movies goes. I didn't even see the ATI Radeon 4250 (one of the more popular) on PassMark's list, but the 5650 was. That's what was steering me towards the i5, because of the better GPU offering, and customer reviews on the product.

This probably won't be a perfect purchase, but it will be better thought out than my last one was. I'm just going to have to choose the best balance that I can find for my budget range. The one that I've bookmarked (the i5 specs above), is certainly better than anything that I have, or ever had. And both the CPU & GPU are on both lists, but I will continue to search for what I can find that I can afford, while having a decent folder.

The OEM's tend to feature the CPU's as an eye catcher, but leave the graphics in the fine print. The majority seems to have the Radeon 4250. Newegg did feature that 1GB Mobility Radeon 5650 dedicated card in bold.

I may take a look at some ASUS notebooks, they have a good name also. But HP & Dell are out for me, the two top names in the business, but are also in a fight together for last place in overall customer satisfaction across the board. Actually, HP being the largest OEM by far, is at the bottom of the bucket as far as serving their customers (me too, twice) goes, and can't sink any lower than where they are, last place.

Thanks for your input, c_c! That chart will at least give me an eye on what to look for.

Cat

 

[catilley1092]

You really don't need 8 GB of RAM, save your money instead and get a better notebook computer. Even during folding the most RAM used will probably be around 1.75 - 2.0 GB of RAM max.

The reason most Quad Core notebooks use the lower frequency CPU is because of heat. The higher the clock speed the more heat generated. Notebooks are not known for their efficient cooling to say the least.

Nibs, I do need extra RAM, for running VM's. With only 4GB RAM, that really limits you as to how much RAM you can lend to the VM, usually 1.5GB. That's rather low for any Windows OS. While photo editing is the most associated use of high amounts of RAM, heavy use of VM's needs it too. If I had the option, I'd have 8GB on here, but it's maxed out at 4GB.

But fortunately, some offers an extra 2GB (6GB total) as a bonus. I can probably live with that, as long as I can find a suitable CPU/GPU combo that meets my needs, at a price that I can afford. That's why I'm doing my homework now, so that I'm not rushed into a purchase, w/o the proper specs to be looking for.

For example, until tonight, I didn't even know that dedicated graphic cards for notebooks even existed. I was actually considering the popular ATI Radeon 4250, now I know that I have other (and better) choices. Some of the Intel i5's are decent, too. But w/o searching these things, I would never had known different.

But I figured that heat would be an issue from the start, that's why I'll probably end up with a decent dual core CPU (such as the Intel i5) over a weak AMD quad.

Cat

 

[catilley1092]

This morning, it fired up for it's last time. I was attempting to reinstall the OS (had to use the "quick" format, as the last time (last week), it took nearly 30 hours to format a 100GB HDD.

I did get it installed, installed SP3 by CD, rebooted and the screen went mostly white, I saw no BIOS screen at all, nor could I use a boot disc (or a external drive) to boot it.

I called Tech Support an hour ago, they'll reimburse me as soon as they get it back, they even paid for shipping.

Now the search is on. On eBay, there are numerous brand new notebooks (w/full factory warranties) that retails for $1000 - $1400 for $700 - $900, and the specs look good. There's many Intel i5's & i7's to choose from. Most likely, I'll choose a i5 model with a dedicated 1GB graphics card. There was a Toshiba that had an i5 (2.66GHz w/Turbo Boost) w/ a 1.5GB DDR5 (or something to that effect) dedicated graphics card, and 12GB DDR3 RAM that listed for only $900. The seller had 10 of them, but they're gone now.

I'm sure there will be more that's at least close to those specs, one just has to search, and compare it to the OEM's prices to know that I'm getting a good deal. In fact, everyone that I looked at, was significantly reduced from the MSRP, I verified this with each one that I looked at.

I've decided to go with a Intel CPU over AMD, they may cost more, but they're worth the extra money. Hopefully by the end of next week, I'll be back onto the folding team again (I did get 3 final WU's in the last 3 days), as soon as I get the new one broken in. I'll go with the standard client first for a couple of jobs, allowing it to cool between each one, then go for the high performance client. I seen where there's a new one now on the site.

Hopefully, I can begin searching this weekend, as soon as my claim status is approved. This typically takes 24 hours after they receive it.

Cat

 

[yodap]

My wife just bought a Dell 1764 with a Core i-5 last weekend at Bj's Warehouse for $569. It's our first laptop. You should check these kind of places out, (like BJ's, Costco or Sam's Club.) They usually offer a 2 or 4 week total return policy, so you can see if you like it.

As far as folding goes, the temps are a little to high for my liking, (75C +). As soon as I can get them down 20 % I'll start folding a little on it.

 

[catilley1092]

Thanks yodap! I've been looking, spent over 7 hours last night pouring over listings on eBay & Newegg. I have one on my wish list at Newegg already. I've also been to Office Max, Office Depot & Wal Mart. There's i7's to be had in my price range, but as you'll read down the post, I can't find one with a dedicated graphics card at the store.

My main problem is, most of these notebooks in the $700 to $900 range (those aren't cheap for me) has either the very popular ATI Radeon 4250 or Intel HD graphics. I have plenty of choices in the i5's, i7's & AMD Ouad, as well as plenty of installed RAM. But that one part, the video card, most of the OEM's cut corners on. Why? These are the same ones that's installed on $300 ones, except that those doesn't have enough RAM (usually 4GB max) to push it like the higher priced ones do.


I want a dedicated graphics card, not one that when it goes, I have to replace the MOBO. Plus, integral graphics aren't as good as a separate card. The PC that I'm on now has a built in card, I don't want another like it. Also, there has been a couple that met my CPU/GPU specs, but had no eSATA or USB 3.0, nor one of those express card slots (where we used to slide our Wi Fi cards into), where there's adapters sold that you can use to make both of these connections. What happened to these slots, every notebook that I've ever owned had them? But there's plenty of camera card slots, however those can be had for less than $10 most anywhere, as a USB 2.0 plugin.

BTW, are MSI notebooks any good? One is at Newegg, on my wish list, but I'm still looking. It will probably be early next week before I can get another one, as soon as the cash for the dead one is in my PayPal account, I can then buy one.

That damn notebook lived at least a year longer than I ever thought it would. If there's anything that I've learned, it's not to buy a refurb computer again. They're nothing but trouble. This makes the 3rd that I'll be refunded for in less than 2 years. Generally, if the item costs $400 (or less), they don't feel that it's worth repairing. That was the exact amount that I paid for that one.

Hopefully, eBay will have some more new listings by the time I get my refund. There's new listings every minute.

EDIT: Does these dedicated graphics cards makes notebooks run excessively hot? There's been some reviews at Newegg that suggests so.

Cat

 

[clifford_cooley]

Does these dedicated graphics cards makes notebooks run excessively hot? There's been some reviews at Newegg that suggests so.

The purpose behind getting a dedicated card vs on-board graphics is why you are wanting dedicated graphics. Dedicated graphics will give you more graphical processing power and by doing so will produce more heat.

 

[catilley1092]

Thanks! Hopefully it won't be anything that a quality notebook cooler can't take care of. Plus, I'll be allowing it to cool between WU's.

Cat

 

[clifford_cooley]

Plus, I'll be allowing it to cool between WU's.

That would not be advisable, heating and cooling causes stress on components. Keeping a constant temperature would be better in the long run.

 

[catilley1092]

Thanks. Hopefully I can find a good balance between everything, once I settle on one. I figured (like everything else) that a break in period would be necessary. At first, I'll probably run a few on the regular clients that I was running.

These newer 3.0 ports, are they as good (or better) as the combo USB 2.0/eSATA ones are? I may have to strike a balance somewhere, unless I find one with the express card slot that available USB 3.0/eSATA adapters will work with. It's going to be hard, at my price range, to have it all.

If so, then all that I would need to do is find a USB 3.0 HDD enclosure. I have a 1TB spare HDD that will be used for backup for only that machine, until I can afford a SSD for it. If not, then my 500GB Seagate backup HDD has an eSATA port on it for the combo port. I would only need to purchase a cord for it.

Many thanks for the suggestions.:beer:

Cat

 

[Thrax]

It is important to point out that notebooks are not designed with 24/7 100% CPU load in mind. I'm sure they do the testing for it and have deemed the scenario acceptable, but it's really unhealthy for a laptop and its very limited thermal constraints.

You should also know that discrete ("dedicated") graphics cards can't really be replaced in a notebook. Even though mobile GPUs have been standardized around the MXM connector interface, that spec only dictates how the card needs to connect to the system, not the dimensions of the card. This means that each product lineup tends to feature a slightly different card, dictated by design requirements, which means there's little economy of scale. And when there's little economy of scale, they become incredibly expensive to purchase, both off the shelf and in a repair scenario. Many times it won't be much cheaper than a mobo replacement.

That said, a discrete GPU is a major advantage in a notebook, because more often than not, they will be faster than an integrated GPU (though this is not always true).

I highly recommend investigating Sager, Asus or MSI for notebooks. Asus in particular was the most reliable notebook maker for 2010, according to several studies. You can take my word for it, or I can swing back by with some data to back it up.

Cheers.

 

[catilley1092]

Thanks, Thrax. In fact, most of the (very few) notebooks that I placed on my wish list at Newegg were either Asus or MSI. Asus also has a good name in the hardware (MOBO) business. MSI also seems to be a sought after gaming notebook.

I'll take your word on your suggestion, as I know that you know about hardware. I've seen another site where you have useful articles, as I recall it, you're a hardware reviewer/specialist.

I don't plan to run the folding client at 100%, 24/7, as I know firsthand how notebooks heats up. There's a burn scar on my left leg to remind me of that. For this reason, I no longer call them "laptops". An unattended child, someone on strong medications for pain (my case, it has caused blackouts), or anyone who is in poor health, should never, I repeat NEVER, should be leaving these devices on their laps w/o either a cooling pad, or other solid surface that will keep the heat from transferring to their body.

I have a solid surface (in a cool area) where it'll be most of the time, and a notebook cooler will also be bought, as I know that I'll need additional cooling for it.

I'll have to try different settings as to how much CPU percentage that I want to use. Probably will start at 70%, 80% tops. I want to run the client and gain decent points, but don't want to fry the notebook in the process.

It's primary purpose will be folding, but I'll also be using it while in the sunroom, outdoors, or when I have to go somewhere and wait (like when waiting for the car to be serviced, etc).

Cat