XP Mode Question

T

Tim Slattery

32-bit Linux, as well as 32-bit Microsoft server systems, uses PAE
(Program Address Extensions), a kludge that extends the address space
by ... I think 4 bits. Nowhere near as good a solution as 64-bit
computing.
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

I think you'll find that your experiences are far from typical. I also
suspect that your perspective will change as you gain experience with
Windows 7.
Yep.
 
B

BillW50

BillW50 said:
Really? Then why can't this Linux (Xandros) see anything past 1GB? The
Diagnostic Tool shows 2GB of RAM (which is correct). While System Info
only shows 1024MB of RAM. And the Task Manager reports:

687,904 KB used
220,828 KB free
You are not really a Linux user, are you Alias? You are *only* a pretend
Linux user! As a *real* Linux user would never say so many dumb things
about Linux that isn't true at all.
 
B

BillW50

Alias said:
Wrong, chum. I have 4 gigs of RAM and all are reported and accounted for
by Linux Mint. I'm looking at the System Monitor right now, your
desperate and childish insults notwithstanding.
Wrong chum! You said Linux has no such limitations. And Xandros is
Linux. And I am calling your bluff! So what do you have to say for yourself?
 
B

BillW50

Alias said:
You got me. I don't use Xandros. Linux Mint 32 bit reports all of my
four gigs in the System Monitor. Maybe Xandros is trying too hard to be
like Windows.
So does some versions of Windows. Xandros trying to be like Windows?
Limiting itself to 1GB? Can't you think of a better lie? Windows never
limits itself to 1GB. Well maybe back in 1990 with Windows 3.0. But that
was over 20 years ago. ;-)
 
B

BillW50

Alias said:
Oh, you're the one who turns off the swap file. Perhaps that's your
problem, I don't know.
Nope! I didn't turn off the Linux swapfile. Xandros did. I hear it only
uses one if you have 512MB or less. Anymore and it doesn't exist. And
anymore than 1GB it won't use anyway. So what's the point?
 
B

BillW50

In
Alias said:
Linux Mint still reports 4 gigs. Being as I'm not in front of your
computer, I can't help you, not that someone who hurls childish
insults deserves any help. On this same machine -- on another hard
drive -- XP Pro 32 bit reports 3.5 GB of RAM. Course, I have an
nVidia card with one gig of dedicated memory. I also have Win 7 on
here but it's 64 bit and reports all the RAM.
No Alias! No childish insults! I am sitting right here in front of many
computers and I know for a fact, that you are clueless. YOU ARE NOT A
REAL LINUX USER FOR ONE! Secondly you try to lie your way of anybody
calling your bluff. That is nothing but low class Alias.
 
P

Paul

Nil said:
... he is exaggerating in order to create a false impression.
I wish, to remain balanced, that Todd quoted examples of how
Linux has flaws.

One example, is the operation of command line utilities, such as
"grep". Anyone who has used Unix or Linux boxes for a while,
recognizes the importance of maintaining utilities so that
they function properly. Scripts are built on top of those
utilities, so it's important they function properly.

Even on computers 20 years ago, I could use grep on any file
which fit within the bounds of the file system. If I had a 40GB
disk, with a single 39.99GB file on it, I could use the command
line utilities to process that file. At least, the parameters
of the operation of the utility, were not limited by available
system RAM.

The grep that has been shipping for the last couple of years,
has an "optimization" switched on. It prevents the utility
from opening any file which is larger than system memory. Now,
when I compare the computer from 20 years ago, instead of being
able to process a 40GB file, I'm limited to a 2GB file (if 2GB
was the amount of physical RAM present in the computer).

They also managed to break the semantics of pipes. Time was,
when you piped one program to another, such as

ls | grep "My Documents"

the "ls" program would fill a FIFO buffer of small fixed size
between the two programs. The output of the first program would
be stopped, whenever the second program was too slow to keep
up with the data flow.

They broke that model too, and now I see more error messages
come from simple shell operations, such as the kind of example
above.

As a result, I don't think of Linux as being "pure as the
driven snow" either. It has plenty of rough edges, plenty
of just plain stupid design decisions (like putting web
cam drivers in the kernel, leading to kernel crashes).

You can throw just as many stones at Linux, as you can at
Windows, if you put some time and effort into it.

Ever tried to find documentation for some feature which is
not popular with the "Linux elite" ? It certainly makes it
harder to set up traditional stuff you may have used in the
past. If I want to enable Telnet or use rcp for ten minutes,
I should be able to - it's my machine.

And how often must a Linux user, fiddle with their XWindows
graphics system. I've been using XWindows since X11R4, compiling
my own copies when needed. Thankfully, we no longer have to
do that, so that's a big win. Package managers have taken
a lot of pain out of Linux. But XWindows continues to suck,
as it traditionally has, and nobody has attempted to improve it.

To give an example from just yesterday, I insert a Ubuntu 10.10
LiveCD into my computer, for some network testing I want to
do. I have a 1280x1024 monitor on a proper Nvidia video card
(not integrated motherboard graphics). The monitor supports
Plug and Play and has EDID. When the CD boots, Ubuntu 10.10
sets the screen resolution to 1024x768, offers no resolution
above that, and refuses to be adjusted by XRandR type programs.
I can certainly fix that with enough effort, but who wants to
do that, every time they boot a LiveCD ?

Now, the second computer I was using for a networking test,
it has a 1440x900 type monitor, and for some reason, the
very same LiveCD boots that, and the monitor runs at full
resolution.

Or take the distros, that when you fire up XWindows, the screen
is shifted several pixels to the right, and you can't see
the last digit of the Date and Time clock. If a user takes
the time and effort, to install the "nv" driver from Nvidia,
the alignment is always perfect, to the last pixel.

Yes, Linux is wonderful as it's free. But the praise stops
there.

I could also write a whole book on Linux audio - to sum
up, "what has five letters and stinks ?". That's Linux audio
architecture.

I don't like Windows 7 that much either, mainly because
I can't tell, by looking at the interface design, just
what they were thinking. I can't tell, that the OS was
designed to make *my* life easier. And that is what should
be evident from one release to the next. The last search
function, that came close to my performance expectations,
was the search function in Win2K. I'm kinda sick of looking
at a piece of candy floss sliding across the screen, while
I'm waiting for my search result :) I want my results,
without my intelligence being insulted.

Maybe in Windows 8, they'll bring back that "dancing paper clip",
and animate Clippy while my search is running for the
next two minutes :) That oughta make my life easier.
That's what the boss pays me for, to watch a dancing paper clip.
That, and for me to update my Facebook page.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/db/Clippy-letter.PNG

Paul
 
L

Leon Manfredi

Sorry, but that is *not* correct, for several reasons. First of all,
undoubtedly you mean 3GB, not 3MB, but even that is not correct.

How much memory it will recognize is a function of two things: whether
it's 32-bit Windows or 64-bit Windows, and for 32-bit Windows what
hardware you have. Moreover, even with 32-bit Windows, the number is
usually a little higher than 3GB

And also be aware that the amount of memory that 32-bit Windows 7 will
recognize on a particular computer is exactly the same as the amount
*any* 32-bit client version of Windows will recognize (see below).

An explanation of how much it will recognize follows below, but let me
also mention that how much memory you need for good performance
depends on what applications you run, and for most people, a little
more than 3GB is more than enough.

All 32-bit client versions of Windows (not just XP/Vista/7) have a 4GB
address space (64-bit versions can use much more). That's the
theoretical upper limit beyond which you can not go.

But you can't use the entire address space. Even though you have a
4GB address space, you can only use *around* 3.1GB of RAM. That's
because some of that space is used by hardware and is not available to
the operating system and applications. The amount you can
use varies, depending on what hardware you have installed, but can
range from as little as 2GB to as much as 3.5GB. It's usually around
3.1GB.

Note that the hardware is using the address *space*, not the actual
RAM itself. If you have a greater amount of RAM, the rest of the RAM
goes unused because there is no address space to map it to.
Don't you tell me what I bought or didn't buy from Crucial. For your info,
I built this Abit IC7-G, and not as a bare boner, installed in an Ensign
MidTower... case, and when I say 4 Meg, it's 4 Meg... and Window7 in
according to conferencing's, will only recognize 3. I didn't say the
other meg got lost, it just recognizes 3....
 
B

BillW50

In
Alias said:
Define "real Linux user" and try to do it in a civil and educated way.
Easy Alias! No REAL LINUX USER would claim Linux has no such
limitations. Only a really inexperience Linux user would say such a
thing. It is just that simple. And it is totally civil and educated.
;-)

P.S. There are no REAL LINUX USERS sticking up for you, are there? Ever
wonder why? ;-)
 
C

Char Jackson

Don't you tell me what I bought or didn't buy from Crucial. For your info,
I built this Abit IC7-G, and not as a bare boner, installed in an Ensign
MidTower... case, and when I say 4 Meg, it's 4 Meg... and Window7 in
according to conferencing's, will only recognize 3. I didn't say the
other meg got lost, it just recognizes 3....
That's hilarious! :)

You have the right to be wrong, and you have the right to be
stubbornly wrong, but then I have the right to laugh, and I did. ;-)

Sorry, no offense intended. I couldn't resist.
 
S

Seth

Leon Manfredi said:
Don't you tell me what I bought or didn't buy from Crucial. For your info,
I built this Abit IC7-G, and not as a bare boner, installed in an Ensign
MidTower... case, and when I say 4 Meg, it's 4 Meg... and Window7 in
according to conferencing's, will only recognize 3. I didn't say the other
meg got lost, it just recognizes 3....
You will have better credibility when you learn the difference between Meg
and Gig.

Please tell us what memory chip you managed to purchase that's 4MB or less
in size to put into 1 or more of the 4 slots on that motherboard for a total
installed size of 4MB?

Here, I will even link you to the page on Crucial for that motherboard to
help out...
http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.aspx?model=IC7-G v1.0&Cat=RAM

Dude, you mean GB, not MB. That's what people are pointing out.
 
K

Ken Blake

That's hilarious! :)

You have the right to be wrong, and you have the right to be
stubbornly wrong, but then I have the right to laugh, and I did. ;-)

Sorry, no offense intended. I couldn't resist.

I resisted. I didn't bother replying. Right or wrong, he just wants to
argue. But I don't want to.
 
B

BillW50

What limitations?
You claimed that Linux has no such limitations with 4GB. But of course,
you don't know what you are talking about. Not all Linux kernels are
compiled and same. But you being totally clueless don't know any better
and you then appear as an idiot. What a surprise not!
That doesn't change the fact that my 32 bit Linux Mint recognizes all 4
GB of my RAM.
You didn't say Mint has no such limitation, you said 32-bit Linux
doesn't. And depending on who compiled the kernel for Mint, it too could
have problems.
You have yet to define what a "real Linux user" is. All you've done is
accuse me of not being one again.
Like many people who uses Linux, don't know what they are talking about.
And make zillions of claims that isn't true at all. But you are in good
company as their are many out there who are pretend to be Linux users,
but they are nothing more than clueless Linux users.

There should be tons more Linux users out there. But because people like
you tell false and misleading information about Linux, they learn that
people like you had lied! And that turns people off. So you are actually
keeping Linux from growing. And thus gets mostly ignored by most users
and software developers.

Another reason why software developers stay away from writing Linux
software is that Linux users are generally not willing to pay for
anything. And any paid Linux software usually gets heavily pirated
anyway. So most software developers don't bother. And they are better
off supporting Windows and the Mac which has far less pirates and more
users willing to pay for software.

So while Linux has been around for over 20 years, it still hasn't
amounted to much at all. And we blame people like you and those dang
pirates for Linux not amounting to anything!
 
T

Todd

I wish, to remain balanced, that Todd quoted examples of how
Linux has flaws.
Ah hell Nil, your examples of Linux flaws are paltry. I am
the one who found the flaw in Linux where writing a data DVD
WIPED OUT YOUR HARD DRIVE! (Red Hat fixed it for me.) I have
never had M$'s stuff ever do anything like that to me. Disappear
a few directories every so often, but nothing like that.

Yes, sound is course. You missed scanning and wireless
networking: more miserable. I don't have a problem with grep.
If you are going to bitch about Linux, you need to take a number
way, way behind me. I almost lost my entire business twice
to that bug. Fortunately, you can back up EVERYTHING in linux and
do a complete restore (took three hours, twice). And, I am a
backup whore. Try that with M$ OS's.

My point is they M$ and Linux both have their problems and their
places. Playing evangelist is just a waste of time.

By the way, I work on about three W7 machines a week: I have a
lot of experience with them.

You guys that love W7 are hearting to me. Means somewhere
W7 is actually working well for some people. I got to say,
I don't see it. W7 works almost and is pretty unstable.
That being said, I did not take my own advice and forgot to
make a restore point after configuring a network share
for a customer. Yesterday, it was gone. Ye-ol crash and roll
back, again. W7 is not stable. But, you can work with
it if you remember to make your restore points. (And follow
your own advice!)

And, while we are being eclectic here, I really love when
Mac users make fun of M$'s stability while they reboot
their computer in front of you from its last crash.

As for M$, it is a common, ubiquitous term for Microsoft.
It has long, long since ceased to be an insult, except
for M$ evangelists and employees of M$. Sorry, it is
not bad manners.

As for all you guys voting against my technical opinion
to Gene, I have years and years of experience at this and
I stand by what I said. If you guys ever get
the opportunity to torture identical W7 and XP machines
side by side, you are going to be really, really pissed.

By the way you evangelists, open your minds. Learn other
OS's. See that way others do things. After a while, something
unusual will happen in your technical life, you will broaden
your knowledge and actually start having -- now what is
that word I am looking for, oh yes -- FUN!

-T
 
T

Todd

Easy Alias! No REAL LINUX USER would claim Linux has no such
limitations. Only a really inexperience Linux user would say such a
thing. It is just that simple. And it is totally civil and educated.
;-)

P.S. There are no REAL LINUX USERS sticking up for you, are there? Ever
wonder why? ;-)
Hi Bill,

Well, maybe because the discourse is uncivil? I have administered
Red Hat servers for over 15 years. I commonly use 4 GB in 32 bit
systems and all were reported. One time I only got 512 MB reported
and that turned out to be a bios problem. I have never heard of
the distro you cite. Nice thing about linux, if one distro doesn't work
for you, try another.

Oh, and he sounds exactly like a "Real Linux User".

-T
 
T

Todd

Hi Bill,

Well, maybe because the discourse is uncivil?
Oh, and this is not a Linux group. Not a lot of us reading it.
Post evangelist drivel on a Linux group and they will politely
straighten you out. Flames are usually over on the M$ groups.

-T
 

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