Upgrading old computers

[Stan Brown]

We have two old desktop computers in our household network that are on
the verge of obsolescence, but I would like to upgrade them

Why.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Seriously, unless there is some specific must-have feature in Win 7
that you can't get in Win XP, not even through a third-party
application, why borrow trouble.

The older the equipment, the more likely that some crucial driver
won't be available for Win 7.

 

[Paul]

We have two old desktop computers in our household network that are on
the verge of obsolescence, but I would like to upgrade them. Both are
still running Windows XP but I'm not sure the CPUs and the motherboard
in general is capable of handling a later version...say Windows 7, 64
bit.

How can I determine the upgrade limitations for these old computers
before I buy any new hard disks or software for them?

If these computers are upgradable, can I install a new hard drive then
format it for 64 bits, then install Windows 7, then use the old files
that are now stored on a second hard drive that is formatted for 32
bit data?

The difference between Windows 7 32 bit and Windows 7 64 bit, is
the latter one supports available memory larger than 4GB.

If you never plan on having more than 4GB of memory, there's no
pressing need to install the 64 bit version of the OS.

Adobe is making some software, which ships in a 64 bit version
only. That would be an example of software that won't run on
a Windows 7 32 bit install. So that is a downside of using
the 32 bit OS, that you can't use the $$$ expensive Adobe
software.

The FAT32 or NTFS file systems on the disk, is independent of the
32 bit or 64 bit decision. For example, I have taken the NTFS
disk out of my Windows 7 64 bit laptop, connected it to my
WinXP 32 bit computer, and worked on the hard drive. That
part makes no difference.

*******

When Windows 7 was first coming out, there was a Release Candidate
to test. I have the 32 bit version of the file here.

7100.0.090421-1700_x86fre_client_en-us_retail_ultimate-grc1culfrer_en_dvd.iso

2,530,975,744 bytes

The license key for that, was generated at the time from a limited
set of license keys. So the idea was, even if you weren't planning
on using it at the time, you still used the web page to get
a license key for later.

I was using my copy just yesterday, for a quick test. The OS will
go to a black background fairly quickly, but still allows a person
to test the OS on older hardware. I was testing on my P4 2.8GHz,
and it actually felt a bit faster than my "real" Windows 7 laptop
with single core processor.

It says here:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...ion-copy/35587001-051c-4e6a-aa31-015bf03720d5

"Effective June 1, 2010, Windows 7 RC expires:
Windows starts to a black desktop...

Your PC will continue to restart every two hours.
IMPORTANT: Your work will not be saved during the shutdown."

So if you install that version, for testing, it runs for
two hours before rebooting out of the blue. It rebooted
three times while I was working on it (for long periods of
time). I don't think I saw a warning, but each time, I
wasn't sitting in front of the machine the moment it rebooted.

Two hour is plenty of time, to determine whether your
computer hardware is fast enough or not.

Paul

 

[Stan Brown]

My reason for this change is that my new NETGEAR N300 Modem Router
Wi-FI won't connect to either of these older computers. It may be that
I should remove the NETGEAR 64 bit installation software and
re-install it in the 32 bit format.

I think it's *extremely* unlikely that Win XP is the reason you can't
connect to them.

I'm not sure, though, what you mean by "connect". If you mean
putting them in a home network, then it can certainly be done --
I've not had occasion to try it myself but a Web search will find you
some how-to guides. If you mean make use of the wi-fi to connect to
the Internet, there's no reason Windows XP should care what hardware
is producing the wi-fi signal, so you most likely have some sort of
configuration problem unrelated to choice of operating system.

 

[ray]

We have two old desktop computers in our household network that are on
the verge of obsolescence, but I would like to upgrade them. Both are
still running Windows XP but I'm not sure the CPUs and the motherboard
in general is capable of handling a later version...say Windows 7, 64
bit.

How can I determine the upgrade limitations for these old computers
before I buy any new hard disks or software for them?

If these computers are upgradable, can I install a new hard drive then
format it for 64 bits, then install Windows 7, then use the old files
that are now stored on a second hard drive that is formatted for 32 bit
data?

You can't 'format it for 64 bits unless the processor is a 64 bit. I
still have a couple of older computers with 32 bit processors I use on a
regular basis.

Depending on system specs, you may or may not be able to get win7 to run
(though it may crawl), but I'm sure you'd see adequate performance with,
say, Debian Linux.

 

[Ken Blake]

But when I say "bitness" I'm not talking about "64-bit architecture"
but about the various kind of architecture. And if I had said
"Formatting has nothing to do with the architecture of your CPU or the
architecture of what version of Windows you are running," would the OP
have understood what I meant? Maybe, but I'm not so sure. I'm much
more comfortable with my guess that he would understand what I meant
by "bitness."

Well, that's not how I would have worded it.

Everywhere that [architecture] appears above I would have said [64-bit
architecture].

Again, when I say "bitness," I never mean 64-bit architecture, I mean
whatever number of bits the architecture I am referring to has. For
example, I might ask a question like "what 'bitness' is your version
of Windows?" If I said "what 64-bit architecture is your version of
Windows?" it would make no sense.

 

[Asger Joergensen]

Hi Antares

We have two old desktop computers in our household network that are on
the verge of obsolescence, but I would like to upgrade them. Both are
still running Windows XP but I'm not sure the CPUs and the motherboard
in general is capable of handling a later version...say Windows 7, 64
bit.

To me it makes absolutely no sense to upgrade an old pc to 64 bit.
In fact the way I see it, the only good thing (for the most users) about
64 bit is that you can use beyond 4GB Ram, software will for several years
to come be made in 32 bit version, so there is no good reason for upgrading.
Most of the data that is moved around inside a pc is either 16 or 32 bit
anyway, so unless you are doing math calculations or something like that,
you have no need for 64 bit at all.

If these computers are upgradable, can I install a new hard drive then
format it for 64 bits,

You do not need a special disk format for 64 bit.

Best regards
Asger-P
http://Asger-P.dk/software
QLaunch, INI-Edit and Color Pick Pro.

 

[Asger Joergensen]

Hi Antares

This is what Mickeysoft say on the matter:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/taking-the-mystery-out-of-64-bit-windows

Best regards
Asger-P
http://Asger-P.dk/software
QLaunch, INI-Edit and Color Pick Pro.

 

[Stan Brown]

If you never plan on having more than 4GB of memory, there's no
pressing need to install the 64 bit version of the OS.

And one very good reason not to: many peripherals have 32-bit drivers
but no 64-bit drivers.

 

[Stan Brown]

You can't 'format it for 64 bits unless the processor is a 64 bit.

Please don't post disinformation.

There's NO SUCH THING as "formatting it for 64 bits" when "it" is a
hard drive. The "bitness" of the CPU and the "bitness" of the
operating system are not reflected in any sort of "bitness" for a
hard drive.

A hard drive doesn't have "bitness"; it has a file system. The two
more popular, for Windows, are NTFS (much the better choice) and
FAT32. But either works just fine with 32-bit or 64-bit Windows.

 

[Stan Brown]

This is what Mickeysoft say on the matter:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/taking-the-mystery-out-of-64-bit-windows

I skimmed it, and I must say it's really quite a good article, much
above Microsoft's usual; standard in usefulness and
comprehensibility.

 

[ray]

Please don't post disinformation.

There's NO SUCH THING as "formatting it for 64 bits" when "it" is a hard
drive. The "bitness" of the CPU and the "bitness" of the operating
system are not reflected in any sort of "bitness" for a hard drive.

A hard drive doesn't have "bitness"; it has a file system. The two more
popular, for Windows, are NTFS (much the better choice) and FAT32. But
either works just fine with 32-bit or 64-bit Windows.

That is exactly what I intended to convey.

 

[Ken Blake]

Please don't post disinformation.

There's NO SUCH THING as "formatting it for 64 bits" when "it" is a
hard drive. The "bitness" of the CPU and the "bitness" of the
operating system are not reflected in any sort of "bitness" for a
hard drive.

A hard drive doesn't have "bitness"; it has a file system. The two
more popular, for Windows, are NTFS (much the better choice) and
FAT32. But either works just fine with 32-bit or 64-bit Windows.

You said essentially the same thing as I said yesterday ("There is no
such thing as "format[ting] for 64 bits. Formatting has nothing to do
with the 'bitness' of your CPU or the 'bitness' of what version of
Windows you are running"), but thanks for using my made-up word
"bitness." <g>

 

[Ed Cryer]

Please don't post disinformation.

There's NO SUCH THING as "formatting it for 64 bits" when "it" is a
hard drive. The "bitness" of the CPU and the "bitness" of the
operating system are not reflected in any sort of "bitness" for a
hard drive.

A hard drive doesn't have "bitness"; it has a file system. The two
more popular, for Windows, are NTFS (much the better choice) and
FAT32. But either works just fine with 32-bit or 64-bit Windows.

You said essentially the same thing as I said yesterday ("There is no
such thing as "format[ting] for 64 bits. Formatting has nothing to do
with the 'bitness' of your CPU or the 'bitness' of what version of
Windows you are running"), but thanks for using my made-up word
"bitness."<g>

You'll be lucky!
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bitness

Ed

 

[Antares 531]

Since you have a network, why bother? If they have wireless cards
you can just leave them running and control them remotely from
your Win7 laptop. This is what I do with IBM 8113s (M52) after
adding RAM and Terabyte drives.

The core problem is, I can't get these old computers to connect with
the household network. I don't know if it's because they are both
running Windows XP, SP3 and have 32 bit setups, or if it is something
else that I've not yet figured out.

This set of problems started when I had to replace the NETGEAR
Wi-Fi/Modem/Router after a lightning strike hit the power transformer
near out house. My new 64 bit desktop, running Windows 7, and my older
32 bit laptop, running Windows Vista both make the connections and
operate well. The desktop is hooked up with a Cat 5 cable but the
laptop connects by means of the Wi-Fi setup.

Gordon

 

[Antares 531]

First, it's highly unlikely that such an old computer has
64-bit-capable hardware. But hold down the Windows key and press
Pause|Break. That will tell you what CPU you have and you can look it
up to see if it's a 64-bit one.

Ken, you are right. Both of these old computers are 32 bit and
probably obsolete in many ways.

Second, it's extremely unlikely that it will make any sense to upgrade
the hardware in such old computers. Almost certainly it will be less
expensive as well as better to simply buy a new computer from someone
like Dell.

I'll give this some consideration, but first I'd like to understand
what is causing the connections problems. Two computers, one Cat 5 and
one Wi-Fi, both connect with no trouble at all but these other two
won't connect. The Cat 5 old computer shows up on the router's light
panel, indicating the router recognizes it but for some reason the
computer can't see the router. The other old one, Wi-Fi connected,
shows the household network and indicates it is ready for making a
connection but when I key in the network name and password it does
nothing, but eventually times out. Both of these old computers are set
up with Windows XP SP3 and seem to be functioning well otherwise.

Gordon

How can I determine the upgrade limitations for these old computers
before I buy any new hard disks or software for them?

If these computers are upgradable,

All computers are upgradeable. The issue is not whether it's possible,
the issue is what and how much you have to upgrade, and therefore
whether it makes economic sense to do so.

can I install a new hard drive

Yes.


then
format it for 64 bits,

There is no such thing as "format[ting] for 64 bits." Formatting has
nothing to do with the "bitness" of your CPU or the "bitness" of what
version of Windows you are running.

then install Windows 7,

Yes.


then use the old files

Yes.


that are now stored on a second hard drive that is formatted for 32
bit data?

There is also no such thing as 32-bit data. Data is the same
regardless of the "bitness" of your CPU or the "bitness" of what
version of Windows you are running.

So to summarize, yes, you can do what you want to do. But almost
certainly you should *not*. It's a very bad plan.

 

[Antares 531]

On 23/06/2012 5:56 PM, Antares 531 wrote:
[...]

Thanks to each of you for your responses. This pretty well clears up
my questions...I should toss the old computers in the re-cycle bin and
buy replacements. Neither of the old computers would handle 64 bit
software.

Not really a problem. "64 but software" is not all it's cracked up to
be. Basically, unless it's very CPU intensive (which most software is
definitely not), the difference between 32-bit and 64-bit software is
unnoticeable in everyday use. If the old hardware is fast enough, it's
upgradable.

My reason for this change is that my new NETGEAR N300 Modem Router
Wi-FI won't connect to either of these older computers. It may be that
I should remove the NETGEAR 64 bit installation software and
re-install it in the 32 bit format.

You've got it backwards: the old machines won't connect to wi-fi. If the
old machines have wi-fi capability, you don't need "installation
software". That's needed only to configure the router, ie,, set up the
password, the internet connection, etc. Once the router is configured,
any wi-fi capable device can connect to it, as long as it offers the
correct password (key) when the router requests it. However, because
your machines are old, I doubt they have built-in wi-fi capability.

My concern, here, is that maybe these old computers have some residual
files and/or settings that were used by my old router. The old router
failed after the lightning struck the power transformer and sent a
humongous spike into our home power, knocking out the old router. If
the old router setup information is still being influential in these
old computers when I try to connect them to the new router, how do I
clear this and give them a fresh start?

There is one of each type...Cat 5 connection and Wi-Fi connection. The
router lights indicate that it senses the Cat 5 connected computer and
the other computer's Wi-Fi setup indicates that the household network
is available but it won't complete the connection. I can key in the
network SSID and password but the process stalls and eventually times
out.

Gordon

 

[Antares 531]

Again, you can do whatever upgrade you want. Whether it makes economic
sense to it is the real question.





Do you have these $5-15 surge protectors? Despite their names, they
are essentially no more than fancy extension cords. They do next to
nothing to protect you.

I have an APC Home/Office surge protector, but it wasn't capable of
handling this humongous surge. The lightning strike was totally
unexpected and happened about 2:00 am.

 

[Antares 531]

You have confused me.

Did you mean you installed 64-bit software (drivers, I would guess) in
the old (32-bit) computers or in the new (64-bit) computer?

I installed my new router's software in my new desktop computer, which
is a 64 bit computer, running Windows 7. It works very well.

But, the older computers, one Cat 5 and one Wi-Fi connection to this
new router won't make the connection. Both of these old computers are
32 bit with Windows XP SP3. They work well in all other respects, but
won't make the connection to the household network for some reason.

I thought you meant the former. That's why I was surprised that it
worked. If you meant the latter, what you said seems irrelevant to me -
and I would not expect 32-bit drivers could work there anyway.

I give up for now.

I'm about ready to give up, too!

My laptop, which is one of the newer computers that has connected to
the Wi-Fi is a 32 bit system running Windows Vista. It had no problem
making the Wi-Fi connection and seems to be doing very well.

My new desktop computer, a 64 bit computer running Windows 7, is set
up as the "manager" of the new router system. It works very well.

The old desktop, which I need to connect by the Wi-Fi setup, is an old
32 bit computer running Windows XP and it shows the new household
network as an available network and will let me key in the SSID and
password, but it just sits there until it times out, never completing
the connection.

The old desktop, which is Cat 5 connected to the router shows up on
the router's lights as an available computer (amber light) but it
won't complete the connection and go green light, nor does the
household network show up in any form on this computer's screen.

 

[Char Jackson]

The core problem is, I can't get these old computers to connect with
the household network. I don't know if it's because they are both
running Windows XP, SP3 and have 32 bit setups, or if it is something
else that I've not yet figured out.

XP SP3 is absolutely not the problem. The lightning strike seems like
an obvious choice.

 

[Char Jackson]

...but first I'd like to understand
what is causing the connections problems. Two computers, one Cat 5 and
one Wi-Fi, both connect with no trouble at all but these other two
won't connect. The Cat 5 old computer shows up on the router's light
panel, indicating the router recognizes it but for some reason the
computer can't see the router.

The solid light indicates LINK status. It needs to be lit solidly at
both ends. If not, try another Ethernet cable, but it seems most
likely that the nearby lightning strike killed the Ethernet port. If
this is a desktop computer, add or replace the NIC, if you intend to
keep using the computer. A decent NIC can be had for $10, or many
times free after rebate.

The other old one, Wi-Fi connected,
shows the household network and indicates it is ready for making a
connection but when I key in the network name and password it does
nothing, but eventually times out.

Temporarily disable the router's wireless security. If you can connect
successfully, it indicates a security issue. Make sure you selected
security settings on the new router that are actually supported on the
old computer.