Relocating folders continued..

[Robin Bignall]

So, I used the method of right-clicking on some of my c:\user\robin..
folders and using 'location' in 'properties' to move them to
d:\users\robin... Sure enough they moved, and a check in Windows
Explorer showed that they had moved. Clicking on 'start' and 'my
documents', for example, showed me that Windows knows where they are.

I expected this redirection//relocation to work for applications, too,
but it certainly does not. Outlook, for example, which keeps its data
in 'my documents' somewhere, could not find its files until I built the
new d:\... path into it. Same with other applications. Am I missing
something?

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

So, I used the method of right-clicking on some of my c:\user\robin..
folders and using 'location' in 'properties' to move them to
d:\users\robin... Sure enough they moved, and a check in Windows
Explorer showed that they had moved. Clicking on 'start' and 'my
documents', for example, showed me that Windows knows where they are.

I expected this redirection//relocation to work for applications, too,
but it certainly does not. Outlook, for example, which keeps its data
in 'my documents' somewhere, could not find its files until I built the
new d:\... path into it. Same with other applications. Am I missing
something?

Here's one circumstance. Lots of stuff is stored *by the application* or
*by its installer* in the registry. Moving it as above won't affect
that.

 

[mick]

So, I used the method of right-clicking on some of my c:\user\robin..

folders and using 'location' in 'properties' to move them to
d:\users\robin... Sure enough they moved, and a check in Windows
Explorer showed that they had moved. Clicking on 'start' and 'my
documents', for example, showed me that Windows knows where they are.

I expected this redirection//relocation to work for applications, too,
but it certainly does not. Outlook, for example, which keeps its data
in 'my documents' somewhere, could not find its files until I built the
new d:\... path into it. Same with other applications. Am I missing
something?

Probably not Robin. I moved the folders after installing win 7 but
BEFORE installing any other software. On installation of software
every program so far that uses my documents, music, photos or videos by
default to hold data has used those folders or created folders in those
folders on the D drive if they need it. Instances being Outlook, Snag
It, Camtasia Studio, MesNews, Nesbin Pro, Norton and other stuff I have
tried and then uninstalled.

In your scenario the installation of software was done prior to moving
the folders so the softwares installer would have put the information
in the registry as to where the data files would go, which was C:\My
etc.

Win 7 is clever in knowing that some C drive folders have gone to the D
drive and that information should go there, but not clever enough to
trawl through the registry to find instances of prior installations and
alter the registry settings for those software, which is where your
manual intervention is coming in.

I have done a bit of googling around and found that some people
recommend moving the whole C:\Users folder over to the D drive as that
keeps ALL your changing data on the one drive with just the operating
system and unchanging program files on C. Apparently it makes it
easier to backup and do drive images, although I don't have a problem
with this as I have a backup routine that suits my requirements. In
the future I may consider doing this if ever I need to re-install the
OS but for the moment I think it is best left as it is, I don't want to
go upsetting a well oiled system for the sake of it. Your scenario
tends to prove that moving things after the event requires manual
intervention and I don't want to create a headache when its not needed.
I know I have drive images to put everything back as it was but its
just the time buggering about

 

[Ken Springer]

Probably not Robin. I moved the folders after installing win 7 but
BEFORE installing any other software. On installation of software
every program so far that uses my documents, music, photos or videos by
default to hold data has used those folders or created folders in those
folders on the D drive if they need it. Instances being Outlook, Snag
It, Camtasia Studio, MesNews, Nesbin Pro, Norton and other stuff I have
tried and then uninstalled.

In your scenario the installation of software was done prior to moving
the folders so the softwares installer would have put the information
in the registry as to where the data files would go, which was C:\My
etc.

Win 7 is clever in knowing that some C drive folders have gone to the D
drive and that information should go there, but not clever enough to
trawl through the registry to find instances of prior installations and
alter the registry settings for those software, which is where your
manual intervention is coming in.

Question, Mick...

When you moved your folders from C:\ to D:\, did you do it manually or
did you open your personal folder and do the move by selecting
Properties of each folder and moving them? That's the way it's
generally recommended to do it.

I ask for a couple of reasons:

1. If you manually move from C:\ to D:\ by dragging and dropping you'll
also take the hidden folders with you. If you use the general
recommendations
those folders won't appear to the average user. If you do have
your computer
set to show hidden files, you'll find there's no location tab
available to
move that folder.
2. I wonder if Win 7 and Win 8 might have a routine that knows you are
using the general recommendations, and may go to the registry and make
necessary changes.

I've been doing some experimenting/testing of folder moving if you've
read some of my earlier threads. And right now, IIRC, the folders you
can move are those created by Windows, not by the user or a program. An
exception may be a folder the user creates
that is a subfolder of the Windows folders.

I have done a bit of googling around and found that some people
recommend moving the whole C:\Users folder over to the D drive as that
keeps ALL your changing data on the one drive with just the operating
system and unchanging program files on C. Apparently it makes it
easier to backup and do drive images, although I don't have a problem
with this as I have a backup routine that suits my requirements. In
the future I may consider doing this if ever I need to re-install the
OS but for the moment I think it is best left as it is, I don't want to
go upsetting a well oiled system for the sake of it. Your scenario
tends to prove that moving things after the event requires manual
intervention and I don't want to create a headache when its not needed.
I know I have drive images to put everything back as it was but its
just the time buggering about

If you have all of your user data on drive X rather than C:\,
conceivably you would not need a backup program that can selectively
choose which files to back from a drive. If only the OS is installed on
C:\, then creating a system image for C:\ will be faster (less data),
restoring will be faster, as would be a complete OS reinstall if forced
to do that.

In the messages you found about this, were the posters moving everything
including hidden folders, or just the ones with Location Tabs?

Even MS admits that having the user data on the same drive as the OS "is
a potential defect".


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.3
Firefox 19.0.2
Thunderbird 17.0.5
LibreOffice 4.0.1.2

 

[Robin Bignall]

Probably not Robin. I moved the folders after installing win 7 but
BEFORE installing any other software. On installation of software
every program so far that uses my documents, music, photos or videos by
default to hold data has used those folders or created folders in those
folders on the D drive if they need it. Instances being Outlook, Snag
It, Camtasia Studio, MesNews, Nesbin Pro, Norton and other stuff I have
tried and then uninstalled.

In your scenario the installation of software was done prior to moving
the folders so the softwares installer would have put the information
in the registry as to where the data files would go, which was C:\My
etc.

This is the key, Mick. As you pointed out I moved my folders
afterwards. I don't mind making changes for each application program
now that I understand whaat's going on.

Win 7 is clever in knowing that some C drive folders have gone to the D
drive and that information should go there, but not clever enough to
trawl through the registry to find instances of prior installations and
alter the registry settings for those software, which is where your
manual intervention is coming in.

Good point.

I have done a bit of googling around and found that some people
recommend moving the whole C:\Users folder over to the D drive as that
keeps ALL your changing data on the one drive with just the operating
system and unchanging program files on C. Apparently it makes it
easier to backup and do drive images, although I don't have a problem
with this as I have a backup routine that suits my requirements. In
the future I may consider doing this if ever I need to re-install the
OS but for the moment I think it is best left as it is, I don't want to
go upsetting a well oiled system for the sake of it. Your scenario
tends to prove that moving things after the event requires manual
intervention and I don't want to create a headache when its not needed.
I know I have drive images to put everything back as it was but its
just the time buggering about

One thought about that is that c:\users does not have a 'location' tab,
so it's not straightforward. I'll come back to this in responding to
Ken's post.

 

[Robin Bignall]

Question, Mick...

When you moved your folders from C:\ to D:\, did you do it manually or
did you open your personal folder and do the move by selecting
Properties of each folder and moving them? That's the way it's
generally recommended to do it.

Can't answer for Mick, but that's how I did it. I moved the larger
folders such as my pictures. I didn't bother with desktop because it's
fairly stable.

I ask for a couple of reasons:

1. If you manually move from C:\ to D:\ by dragging and dropping you'll
also take the hidden folders with you. If you use the general
recommendations
those folders won't appear to the average user. If you do have
your computer
set to show hidden files, you'll find there's no location tab
available to
move that folder.

I was a bit concerned using drag and drop. Windows help says that the
process sometimes moves the file and sometimes copies it. I didn't want
to get any more confused than I already was!

2. I wonder if Win 7 and Win 8 might have a routine that knows you are
using the general recommendations, and may go to the registry and make
necessary changes.

That would be nice.

I've been doing some experimenting/testing of folder moving if you've
read some of my earlier threads. And right now, IIRC, the folders you
can move are those created by Windows, not by the user or a program. An
exception may be a folder the user creates
that is a subfolder of the Windows folders.

That's useful to know.

If you have all of your user data on drive X rather than C:\,
conceivably you would not need a backup program that can selectively
choose which files to back from a drive. If only the OS is installed on
C:\, then creating a system image for C:\ will be faster (less data),
restoring will be faster, as would be a complete OS reinstall if forced
to do that.

In the messages you found about this, were the posters moving everything
including hidden folders, or just the ones with Location Tabs?

Even MS admits that having the user data on the same drive as the OS "is
a potential defect".

Absolutely. If your user data changes frequently you'd need backups at
short intervals. This is completely possible if your backup program
handles incrementals and doesn't copy empty bytes. But
frequently-changing data on a drive other than the system drive is
generally a good idea.

 

[mick]

Question, Mick...

When you moved your folders from C:\ to D:\, did you do it manually or did
you open your personal folder and do the move by selecting Properties of each
folder and moving them? That's the way it's generally recommended to do it.

I went in C:\Users\mick - right clicked on the folder chose
properties, location tab - entered D:\mick (which I had already set up
manually) in the box and pressed the move button. Desktop, Downloads,
Favorites, My Documents, My Music, My Photos and My Videos all done
that way. No drag and drop. I believe at first I may have tried drag
and drop and the folders reappeared in C whilst the ones I drag where
in D. Thats when I looked for a solution as to why that happened and
found you must use the location tab to move them.

I ask for a couple of reasons:

1. If you manually move from C:\ to D:\ by dragging and dropping you'll
also take the hidden folders with you. If you use the general
recommendations
those folders won't appear to the average user. If you do have your
computer
set to show hidden files, you'll find there's no location tab available
to
move that folder.
2. I wonder if Win 7 and Win 8 might have a routine that knows you are
using the general recommendations, and may go to the registry and make
necessary changes.

I've been doing some experimenting/testing of folder moving if you've read
some of my earlier threads. And right now, IIRC, the folders you can move
are those created by Windows, not by the user or a program. An exception may
be a folder the user creates
that is a subfolder of the Windows folders.



If you have all of your user data on drive X rather than C:\, conceivably you
would not need a backup program that can selectively choose which files to
back from a drive. If only the OS is installed on C:\, then creating a
system image for C:\ will be faster (less data), restoring will be faster, as
would be a complete OS reinstall if forced to do that.

Correct. I still have C:\Users without the folders mentioned above.
I do an image of C:\ minus the Users folder to an external drive.
I do a sync of C:\Users to an external drive. On average I find there
are about 9000 file changes per week. Now, if you kept doing
images/backups of C with the Users folder on C your external drive soon
fills up. With Users on another drive you really only need to do a C
image a maximum of once a month to take care of windows updates. I
tend to take an image about every four months.

In the messages you found about this, were the posters moving everything
including hidden folders, or just the ones with Location Tabs?

Type this into google search
move c users to another drive windows 7
There is a lot of help and discussion which might enlighten you
further.

Even MS admits that having the user data on the same drive as the OS "is a
potential defect".

Yes, I saw that too somewhere, could have been in one of their blogs or
support, memory is not my best attribute, I'll have to get a bit more
GB for this old head

 

[mick]

This is the key, Mick. As you pointed out I moved my folders
afterwards. I don't mind making changes for each application program
now that I understand whaat's going on.

Good point.


One thought about that is that c:\users does not have a 'location' tab,
so it's not straightforward. I'll come back to this in responding to
Ken's post.

That is correct. It is probably why I never moved the Users folder
right after installing Win7, but after doing more research prompted by
the previous thread last week, I found out that it is desirable to move
it to another partition/drive. If you have not seen my reply Ken, type
this into google search
move c users to another drive windows 7
There is a lot of help and discussion which might enlighten you
further.

 

[Ken Springer]

I was a bit concerned using drag and drop. Windows help says that the
process sometimes moves the file and sometimes copies it. I didn't want
to get any more confused than I already was!

It depends on which version of the OS, i.e. XP, Vista, etc. And whether
you drag and drop with the left or right mouse button, and where the
target is. I think, and haven't confirmed this, if you use 7 or 8, left
click and drag and drop to a different location on the same partition,
the file is moved. If you left click and drag and drop to a different
partition, the file is copied.

That is the way the copy function works in OS X, and I hate it. OS X
also has no move function.

<snip>


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.3
Firefox 19.0.2
Thunderbird 17.0.5
LibreOffice 4.0.1.2

 

[Ken Springer]

I went in C:\Users\mick - right clicked on the folder chose
properties, location tab - entered D:\mick (which I had already set up
manually) in the box and pressed the move button. Desktop, Downloads,
Favorites, My Documents, My Music, My Photos and My Videos all done
that way. No drag and drop. I believe at first I may have tried drag
and drop and the folders reappeared in C whilst the ones I drag where
in D. Thats when I looked for a solution as to why that happened and
found you must use the location tab to move them.

I'm wondering where/why those other folders appear, even when you've
followed the usual recommendations. I've got a thread in this newsgroup
asking about that, but no answer. Lots of good discussion on stuff, but
no answer.

So, I posted, almost verbatim, the same thing on social.microsoft.com.
I got one response, telling me to check out and article on libraries.
AAAARERRRGGGGGHHHHHH!

I'm amazed at the amount of misinformation about libraries you find on
the web.

I've got a post in an earlier thread where I detail how I would make
libraries work. It's a workaround, but it makes Windows Libraries
function much more like that real library down the street.

Type this into google search
move c users to another drive windows 7
There is a lot of help and discussion which might enlighten you
further.

I found and read a number of those pages earlier, but those solutions
are more "geekier" than I wish to get into, because:

1. I'm no longer a regular windows user. If I was, I might consider
those solutions
if I had the file load one of my brothers-in-law has. I might
even do it just
for the fun of it. For now, I'm not doing any tweaking that deep
into the OS.
2. I believe in the KISS principle, and almost never fiddle in the
registry. If I can't
accomplish what I want within the limits of an OS, I go looking
for a 3rd party
utility that does that, and usually find something that does what
I want and
usually a lot more. That applies to both Windows and my Mac.
3. I also tend to be the family and friend computer guy. So, I keep
solutions,
explanations, and solutions simple enough to them to understand.

Yes, I saw that too somewhere, could have been in one of their blogs or
support, memory is not my best attribute, I'll have to get a bit more
GB for this old head

I just posted that info in the last couple of weeks or so. I don't
remember which thread. If you can't find it, and would like it reposted
here or sent to you in email, I'd be glad to accommodate.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.3
Firefox 19.0.2
Thunderbird 17.0.5
LibreOffice 4.0.1.2

 

[mick]

I'm wondering where/why those other folders appear, even when you've followed
the usual recommendations. I've got a thread in this newsgroup asking about
that, but no answer. Lots of good discussion on stuff, but no answer.

Could it be third party software doing it? I really don't know, all I
can say is that they have never re-appeared in over two years in
C:\Users since I moved the folders 'properly' in the location tab.

So, I posted, almost verbatim, the same thing on social.microsoft.com. I got
one response, telling me to check out and article on libraries.
AAAARERRRGGGGGHHHHHH!

I'm amazed at the amount of misinformation about libraries you find on the
web.

I've got a post in an earlier thread where I detail how I would make
libraries work. It's a workaround, but it makes Windows Libraries function
much more like that real library down the street.

Type this into google search
move c users to another drive windows 7
There is a lot of help and discussion which might enlighten you
further.

I found and read a number of those pages earlier, but those solutions are
more "geekier" than I wish to get into, because:
[snip]

2. I believe in the KISS principle, and almost never fiddle in the
registry. If I can't
accomplish what I want within the limits of an OS, I go looking for a
3rd party
utility that does that, and usually find something that does what I
want and
usually a lot more. That applies to both Windows and my Mac.

+1
there are some really good freeware stuff that will do almost anything
if you are prepared to hunt around for it. I know what I want its just
finding the right words to put in the browsers search box. This
group is a good start, I have come across some excellent software that
I would never have thought of, through other peoples suggestions and
recommendations.

3. I also tend to be the family and friend computer guy.

More and more to the point that I should be making a living out of it.
Bottles of wine and the odd cigar are just not the same as pound notes.
LOL

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

On 4/6/13 6:12 PM, mick wrote: []
3. I also tend to be the family and friend computer guy.

More and more to the point that I should be making a living out of it.
Bottles of wine and the odd cigar are just not the same as pound notes.
LOL

Indeed; you can use the wine and cigar (well, probably not in my case -
I only like sweet wine [which is not what people tend to give] and don't
smoke), but (assuming you're not in one of the odd corners) you can't
use pound notes (-:.

 

[Ken Springer]

Could it be third party software doing it? I really don't know, all I
can say is that they have never re-appeared in over two years in
C:\Users since I moved the folders 'properly' in the location tab.

I doubt it's 3rd party software. At the moment, my Win7 is in a virtual
machine. I bought the upgrade special from MS's website, and upgraded
from an XP VM. But, I did not retain any thing from the XP install. If
I want anything from it, I'll just run the XP VM.

I'm building a computer to dual boot 7 & 8 which I'll tweak to make it
into what I want. As for the VM install, I'll only tweak there with
what you can do from within Windows itself, no 3rd party programs.
Right now there's no 3rd party programs except the one that's associated
with the VM.

+1
there are some really good freeware stuff that will do almost anything
if you are prepared to hunt around for it. I know what I want its just
finding the right words to put in the browsers search box. This
group is a good start, I have come across some excellent software that
I would never have thought of, through other peoples suggestions and
recommendations.

Same here. For both 7 & 8, there's going to be a Start Menu
replacement, Windows Explorer replacement, and a quick launch bar
replacement.

More and more to the point that I should be making a living out of it.
Bottles of wine and the odd cigar are just not the same as pound notes.
LOL

Ditto.

Although like J. P., wine, cigars, and pound notes don't work for me
either! LOL


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.3
Firefox 19.0.2
Thunderbird 17.0.5
LibreOffice 4.0.1.2

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

It depends on which version of the OS, i.e. XP, Vista, etc. And whether
you drag and drop with the left or right mouse button, and where the
target is. I think, and haven't confirmed this, if you use 7 or 8, left
click and drag and drop to a different location on the same partition,
the file is moved. If you left click and drag and drop to a different
partition, the file is copied.

That is the way the copy function works in OS X, and I hate it. OS X
also has no move function.

<snip>

Pressing the Ctrl key before releasing the mouse button reverses that
behavior on a one time basis. A pop-up box tells you what is planned.

 

[Mike Barnes]

Win 7 is clever in knowing that some C drive folders have gone to the D
drive and that information should go there, but not clever enough to
trawl through the registry to find instances of prior installations and
alter the registry settings for those software, which is where your
manual intervention is coming in.

Speaking for myself I'd rather Windows didn't change application-
specific registry entries. I don't trust Windows to properly change
registry entries that it doesn't understand. I'd rather make the changes
using the application itself.

 

[Ken Springer]

Pressing the Ctrl key before releasing the mouse button reverses that
behavior on a one time basis. A pop-up box tells you what is planned.

Thanks. I'll be able to remember this for 5 minutes! LOL


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.3
Firefox 19.0.2
Thunderbird 17.0.5
LibreOffice 4.0.1.2

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Thanks. I'll be able to remember this for 5 minutes! LOL

LOL here too...

That's why I keep making notes of these ideas

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Speaking for myself I'd rather Windows didn't change application-
specific registry entries. I don't trust Windows to properly change
registry entries that it doesn't understand. I'd rather make the changes
using the application itself.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say "changing entries it literally *can't*
understand".

What would the developers at Microsoft have to do to be able to make
those changes for everything they haven't developed themselves that
might happen to be in the registry?...

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In fact, I'd go so far as to say "changing entries it literally *can't*
understand".

What would the developers at Microsoft have to do to be able to make
those changes for everything they haven't developed themselves that
might happen to be in the registry?...

Well, they could consider banning (at least write) access to it
altogether!

I never understood what the advantage was supposed to be of putting
_everything_ in the registry, as opposed to applications' .ini files
(remember those?). OK, I can perhaps see the point for a _few_ common
settings, but not most of them. (Yes, I know the registry is in RAM
already, and thus hundreds or thousands of times faster than loading a
..ini file. But given the size of most modern applications, that have to
be loaded from disc when they're started, the additional overhead of
loading a small .ini file is negligible. And with modern hardware, even
the occasional need to re-save that file isn't that significant.)

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Well, they could consider banning (at least write) access to it
altogether!

That would kill me!

So many fixes (including things like path changes, as in another thread
in these parts), require or can use Registry changes.

I never understood what the advantage was supposed to be of putting
_everything_ in the registry, as opposed to applications' .ini files
(remember those?). OK, I can perhaps see the point for a _few_ common
settings, but not most of them. (Yes, I know the registry is in RAM
already, and thus hundreds or thousands of times faster than loading a
.ini file. But given the size of most modern applications, that have to
be loaded from disc when they're started, the additional overhead of
loading a small .ini file is negligible. And with modern hardware, even
the occasional need to re-save that file isn't that significant.)

The Registry is great! Everything is in one place!

Well, the above might be true if the Registry were well documented and
kept relatively simple. Have you ever tried to trace the
interconnections among a set of keys with names and values similar to
"{098f2e70-bae0-112d-b579-08000930efab}"?

If you haven't, I suggest you don't try it. I have tried it, but I don't
think I ever got to the bottom of even one set. Vertigo intervened

BTW, in the Macintosh world, the method is similar to our legacy .ini
method, and uninstalling an app is as simple as just deleting the folder
that the app and all its ini (actually pref, IIRC) files lie in. Except
when it's not that easy.