Linux sucks!

catilley1092

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I read a lot of web material, and with the release of Windows 7, the Linux talk starts showing again. One article after the other describing how much better Linux is compared to Apple and Microsoft. If Linux is that good and so much better, why does it take years to learn how to use it? Why can't they make it so you can download and simply open it? Or even upgrade Firefox without playing with the command line for an hour or two? And why is there no professional support? I know half the answer to my last question, the people who are at the top don't even know how to dress as professionals, let alone be professionals. The folks at Canonical will send you a free CD, but no manual to accompany it. What good is that? "Free as in free beer?" Free beer always gave me a hangover and so does Linux. Windows 7 is #1!
 
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I read a lot of web material, and with the release of Windows 7, the Linux talk starts showing again. One article after the other describing how much better Linux is compared to Apple and Microsoft. If Linux is that good and so much better, why does it take years to learn how to use it? Why can't they make it so you can download and simply open it? Or even upgrade Firefox without playing with the command line for an hour or two? And why is there no professional support? I know half the answer to my last question, the people who are at the top don't even know how to dress as professionals, let alone be professionals. The folks at Canonical will send you a free CD, but no manual to accompany it. What good is that? "Free as in free beer?" Free beer always gave me a hangover and so does Linux. Windows 7 is #1!
Who told you it takes years to learn Linux? Linux is an OS, Not an application. Once Linux is booted up, then it's about the applications. I make the same argument with I bump into Mac fanboys.

They talk like just because it's a Mac, they themselves are able to do fantastic things by default. And they talk that nonsense with a straight face too. I do support on all three platforms and when I get questions on how to sum a set of numbers in Excel from these Mac users, my first thought is, "why are you asking me?" But I know why. They ask because they can't. They ask because just because you have a Mac means nothing. Most of these fanboys "can't" on a Mac.

And most get rid of them shortly after they get them because they spent too much to do what they do know how to do. ie run a web browser, watch youtube, run Itunes, hit facebook, gmail and myspace. It's not worth 1600 to 2600 bucks just to do that. Check your local Craigslist. Tons of Macs show up daily.


Anyway, it's about the applications on any of these platforms. Don't get twisted around because you are unfamilier with a Linux desktop. I love win 7 and I'm most familier with it. But I do know Linux and OSX too. And it's all about the applications once it's booted up. Not the OS.

-JazMac
 

catilley1092

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For five months, I indeed was a Linux user. I had the latest versions of Ubuntu, Xubuntu, PCLinuxOS, Moon OS, and Linux Mint. After a month, I stuck with Ubuntu. But getting programs and hardware to work (such as a simple printer) was nerve wracking. I am a little familiar with the Linux desktop, enough to say it isn't my cup of tea. If they want to be popular and grow in numbers, why don't they make a product that works out of the box. I know that there are various "distros", and not a one that I ran into was simple to use. Their forums are larger than the Windows ones are. People having one problem after the other. Printing , applying downloads and software were most of the complaints I ran into. But please don't in any way get me wrong here, I'm not in any way bashing the users. In fact, I have three online friends that I met through Linux Questions.org. A lot of those who choose Linux distros done it in fear of Microsoft, you know, the license deal and all. I do believe in the concept of free software, however you can't build a large OS without professional support. That, you can't get for free. There are a couple of paid Linux distros that has that support, and many businesses rely on them. Xandros is one of them. There was also Linux XP, but the last I read about them, they took their distro to Russia. I found a web page on them when I was trying it out, there was an ad, but upon clicking the link, all I got was a "404" message. Linux distros are probably fine for intellectuals and those who are truly learning to compute, not those who just browse the web, being forum members, send & receive email and shop online. I want to be able to plug in my new printer, insert the driver disc in, and in 5 minutes printing whatever I want. I don't want to be searching the web for compatible drivers, and then when I find and download them, don't know how to execute it. Every Windows system that I've had was simple to learn and run (I skipped Vista, so I can't vouch for it). And with Windows 7, simplicity is what was promised and delivered. It would be false to say that no one has had problems, but most of them that had or have them are the ones upgrading from another system. The ones who bought new (as I did) are not complaining much. But like I said, everyone can run the OS of their choice, I don't care. And in my post, I never launched an attack towards any Linux distro user. I have friends who uses Linux distros and their choice doesn't make me feel harsh towards them. But having used it, I stick to my guns. This is America and that's my opinion of the "distros", as they are called.
 

Veedaz

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Any Operating System is good if you like it ;)
 

catilley1092

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Veedaz, you're right. But I don't like Linux. I love Windows 7!
 
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You have to remember, Linux is not a personal OS by default. The GUI is optional. That being said, I don't run Linux as a personal OS. It is a very useful OS for my server. Almost never have any problems that aren't caused my me, And very reliable. I would not run it as a personal OS though. There are still too many issues in that field.
 

Veedaz

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I would say Microsoft has got there street cred back with Windows 7 after the Vista mistake :)
 
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Linux by it's self is nothing more then just a kernel basically. Ubuntu Linux, Linux Mint, OpenSuse, these are what you should be saying sucks.

I disagree, but everyone is entitled to an opinion. Linux Distro's are amazing if you think about it. A operating system that comes with a full set of tools for anything you could ever want or need to do on Pc, and it's all for free.

The first time I used a Linux based OS, I was thinking just like you, but I figured there had to be a reason so many people and companies use it. I learned more about it spent a little more time getting familiar With it, and found out it really is a powerful, easy to use system. It just took me not comparing it to windows was all. If you go into using a Linux Distro OS thinking it will be like windows, your wrong. Windows is windows, Mac OS x is what it is, and Linux OS's are what they are.

I've grown up around computers, Windows is all I have ever known until about three months ago. I think I tried Mint first, followed by a series of others and ended up with Ubuntu now. If you take the time like a I did, and do a little research, and learn a little about them, and then pick one that seems to suite your needs, you will be quit pleased with what you find. Almost all of the Linux based OS's are as easy to use as windows now a days. If you don't want to learn how to use the command line you don't have to, there is a software manager with most of them. I set up Ubuntu on my laptop with no problems at all, everything worked like it should. And if it didn't, they have a huge community of people who are happy to help you get your computer working right for FREE.

Most of the software you can get for free is comparable to windows software, either just as good or better. Some Windows software is even ported to work for Linux. You always have the option of running WINE, a virtual Windows app of sorts.

What it all boils down to is, thinking outside the box, in this case, Windows. I will continue using Ubuntu and figure it all out just as I did when I first used Windows. I will learn which software is better suited for me and my needs just like I did for Windows. I will continue to find errors with the OS and have issues with programs and hardware running properly just like I did with Windows. The only difference is, I've spent thousands and thousands of dollars on new versions of Windows and software to run on the new version, and I spent maybe a dollar to use Ubuntu Linux. And that was on DVD-R's and CD-R's I used to burn the different versions until I found one I liked


Edit:
One thing Windows does still take the lead in is, gaming. Nothing can compare to Windows gaming hands down.
 
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For anyone wanting to try out Ubuntu or a few other Lunix desktops, try this.

http://wubi-installer.org/

It allows you to install and use Ubuntu or a few other desktops with out any real worries or effecting your current windows installation. It just installs like any other Windows based application and can be easily uninstalled from your Windows control panel uninstaller.

As for the creator of this post, about 95% of what you said or claim is false.

Linux does have professional support

The command line isn't needed to use it anymore really. You can install uninstall and update from windows and menus just like Windows. There is and has been for a little while now a software database that you can browse from the main menu, and simply install any of the hundreds of apps right from there for free.

As for a manual, the internet is your best friend for this. Just goto google and type in what you want to know. It's amazing what a search engine can find if you use them.

The message forums are huge, and there is a ton of people there 24/7 looking for answers or looking to help at no cost other then time. I think the reason for the forums being so big is, once you figure out where everything is, it's easier for you to locate the exact information you are looking for. Other forums I have visited have only a few categories, and people tend to post everything in to one or two of them. This can make it much harder and take more time to find answers to what it is you need.

And as for working right out of the box.... Windows has never just worked completely perfect for me right out of the box. I've had to update drivers for devices and hardware it didn't recognize and confiugure setting and so on. If I ever installed a OS and it " Just Worked" right out of the box and freshly installed, I'd slap a Nun.

While Windows 7 is a vast improvement over Vista, it still isn't perfect. I'll be the first to admit, I like it a lot and Microsoft has come a long way.


In the end, people must realize that Linux is a open source project. The people who work hard to provide another option to people other then Windows, do so for free for the most part and because they want to. Where as Microsoft has a army of disgruntle " but paid" people working for them. Maybe not disgruntle, but I bet if I met someone who worked there and asked them if they enjoyed the job they wouldn't reply " It's the best thing in the world!".
 
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For anyone wanting to try out Ubuntu or a few other Lunix desktops, try this.
I would be the first to admit that I have not given a OS that does not bear the Microsoft Logo a fair hand shake. After reading your post Matt, I am almost tempted to try it out.

When I first noticed the Thread title, I only give this thread two days before I figured it would need locking from all the debates and arguing. I must say I am shocked at how long this thread is remaining civil. I do however wonder why we are discussing Linux on a Windows 7 forum. But then we are in a Off-Topic section.

I must mention that one of my requirements for Linux would be that Seagate DiscWizard must work with the OS. If you tell me Seagate DiscWizard will work. I will start hand shakes with Linux.
 
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. If you tell me Seagate DiscWizard will work. I will start hand shakes with Linux.
Lol, well as far as I know that software is just for formatting and partitioning so I don't see were a problem would be for installing Ubuntu or any other Linux based OS. Unless you make it your primary OS.... Which I wouldn't recommend anyways.

Linux doesn't install like windows, it uses a different formatting system. So if you downloaded one of the many ISO's for any of the Linux Distro's and performed a clean install as the soul OS of a computer, you would need to partition a section of the hard drive if you wanted to run Windows along side of it. Or, if you leave Windows, and install Linux along side windows, then decide it's not your taste or to much or whatever, use your Seagate software while in windows, to partition the used space back to windows format and all is well.

The nice thing about installing a Linux Distro is, you have a little more freedom to edit and customize your install. You can install it to where it only will partition 3 or 4 gigs for use, or the whole drive.

But like I said, I don't recommend installing it as the main OS anyway's. And not at all if you are a new to it, unless you don't mind reinstalling windows if you don't like it.

If anything, if you would like to try it out to see what it is like, you can download the Distro of your choice as a LiveCD. This will allow you to boot it from a disc, not installing anything at all on your computer. It will run like a Demo. Not fully functional, and will not run no were near as fast since it is being read from a disc drive, but it will allow you to explore the user interface, or the desktop environment.

After that, if you think you might want to play around with it as I did after I tested it out, use a the link to the Wubi installer to download it and install Linux that way. Like I said, it just add's it to your computer like any other app and can just be uninstalled. It will reboot and partition the space you pre approved for use during the set up, but it won't directly effect any of your windows files in anyway what so every. And one more, if you don't like it, just reboot and select Windows go to your control panel and uninstall it.

What I did just as a extra safety measure was create a system restore point right before I installed Ubuntu with the Wubi installer just in case. But I haven't had any problems any ways so there wasn't a need to use it.

And yes I have installed it and un-installed it with no problems at all.
 

catilley1092

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As the starter of this post, what mattweed9 suggested was the very first way that I tried a Linux distro out. I prepared for the installation as was instructed, it was said to be sure to defragment the disc prior to downloading. I followed Wubi's instructions, then proceeded for what was an 7 hour download. That's right, 7 hours, as no torrent was provided or suggested for this. It was almost a 700MB download. I got the program set up to go (it requires you to give a name and an optional password, after all was through a reboot was needed, I did so. Upon startup, it was there, a choice between Ubuntu and Windows XP. What mattweed9 has said is true, you can do this. But it left my disc 55% fragmented after I defragged once Ubuntu was installed. That's right, 55% fragmentation. About a week later, I could not boot into Windows, but I could boot into Ubuntu, even though it was installed inside of Windows. Figure that one out, I was "inside" Windows, but couldn't get into my Windows files. My boot ini. file became corrupted, then a hal.dll. file. Yet I could still boot into Ubuntu with no problem. I searched the Ubuntu forums, LinuxQuestions.org, and Windows BBS. The only straight answer that I got was from Windows BBS, where the member told me that my only hope was a reinstallation of Windows, and that if I wanted to try this Linux thing, to install onto a separate partition. Because I had a photo album that meant a lot to me, I tried as a last resort calling Microsoft. After being routed to the right person, she asked me to give a brief description of my problem. After explaining to her everything, she told me that she could attempt to walk me through at $79 an hour, but said in all honesty that a reinstall would be my only way out. At that point, I realized that my photo album was gone, one picture of them was my grandmother who died in a house fire. That was the only one that I had of her, I was only 11 when she died. But the lady from Microsoft did help me for no charge, she walked me through a reinstall since I had the disc, told me about leaving enough space for Ubuntu (or the OS of my choice) and gave me some wise words of caution. To never install another OS inside of Windows like that again, that she had dealt with countless others whose boot files were corrupted by this sort of install and told me that when I saw that my disc was 55% fragged, I should have uninstalled at that point. And in the future, to partition for each OS, regardless of brand. Realizing that she could have charged for her services but didn't, I thanked her and started my reinstall of Windows, which took the rest of the day. I left 25GB for a copy of Ubuntu that was given to me by a friend. Clifford, if you want to try out Linux, either partition or find a old system to do this with. It is meant for a temporary install to try it out. You don't even get the same performance from Ubuntu from this type of install. And you get NO assistance from Wubi or Ubuntu on this. You have to learn on your own. 12 years ago, I learned Windows in a short time (about 2 weeks) and had never touched a computer. This past summer and early fall, I spent 5 months trying to learn Ubuntu but failed. How in the hell are you going to learn when nothing's in sync. You post a question, you get 20 or more answers (yes, the community is large). You go through all those answers, took all day, and wake up the next day to do the same. Just to install a damn printer. Why can't they make their systems work with the OEM drivers? Windows does. Why does your external drive not work with Linux distros? It does with Windows. With Ubuntu and others when you plug it in it shows "160GB MEDIA", and that's all. You try to open it, the distro says the contents are unreadable. These are just a couple of the obstacles you will run into. I ordered my Windows 7 PC and because of the bad publicity of Vista and my Linux travels, I was actually almost shaking at the knees. But you know what? For the most part, I have it worked out. My printer and external drive works. In a little over two weeks I have nearly learned Win 7, in five months, all I could do was browse web pages, email and beg for help with Ubuntu. And I did give it an honest try, staying up many nights until 4 or 5 am. One shouldn't have to put in 16 hours a day just to learn a system. If any of you want to, go ahead. But don't say I didn't tell you so after you find out how hard it is. And this Wubi deal is not endorsed by Microsoft, and if your system is under warranty and you have no backup nor emergency repair disc, you're out of your money. This is Windows 7, not Win 2K or XP where you can buy OEM discs and block the download of the validation checker and run a bootleg system that will still get urgent and important security updates. The OEM discs I'm describing here are the ones that says on the package "For distribution with a new PC only". Anyway, a warning to all: Use Wubi at your own risk! It's only meant to evaluate the distro, not meant to be a permanent install.
 
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I must say thanks to all three of you for your insight.

I must say I am not interested in Booting an OS on a CD/DVD. I'm not interested in installing to Windows 7. If I try Linux it will be to a partition of its own in a dual boot setup. I will not damage my Windows 7 install.

Like I said if I do install Linux the first thing it must do is install Seagate DiscWizard. A system backup and restore that is separate from my Main OS is my only reason in even looking at Linux. If it wasn't against a single licensing agreement to install two Windows OS's. I wouldn't even be considering it.

Who knows I might even learn to like it. But I do have a goal and if not met I will stick to Windows even if I am illegally using the second Windows OS as my Backup and Restore options.
 

Veedaz

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Hi Clifford

You wrote
A system backup and restore that is separate from my Main OS
This can be done with Paragon Backup & Recovery 10 Free Edition > http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/

You can backup your full OS (all of your Windows 7 partition) to another partition, external HDD or Flash Drive, within Paragon you can burn a bootable rescue disk (that works out side of the OS) and allows you to completely replace your OS from the backup archive, this software works very well, if you have a major problem or destroy part of your OS you can replace your complete OS in a few minuets.

Supported Operating Systems

Windows 7 (32/64-bit)
Windows Vista (32/64-bit)
Windows XP Professional SP2 (32/64-bit)
Windows XP Home SP2
Windows 2000 Professional SP4
 
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I want to boot to a partition not CD/DVD that is separate from my Main OS for backup and restore reasons.
 

Veedaz

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OK then you will need an installed OS, XP would be a good choice (thats if you have a XP installation CD or if you know anyone now running Windows 7 that does not want there XP CD) :)
 

catilley1092

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Veedaz, this Paragon deal looks like a good one and probably in some respects is better than a lot, especially free ones. Windows 7 itself also has some excellent backup tools, far better than XP had. You can even restore all the way back to the factory image, as long as you have created a emergency boot disc to get in with. But as the starter of this thread, I'm thankful that it has remained civil. The only reason I even brought it up was because I keep getting newsletters and emails from all four corners of the Linux "empire", as one called it. What really got me was that in one newsletter it was said that the Windows users were "dumb, crybabies who needed someone to hold their hands to compute, and were freeloaders as well". That ticked me off right then on the spot. As Windows users, there are many of us who has spent thousands of dollars for an OS that works, and although it and no other OS is perfect, Windows promised and delivered an OS that is simple to use, compatiable with many older programs and has worked hard behind the scenes with OEM suppliers to hold down prices as much as possible. I guess that's one reason reinstall discs don't seem to be provided anymore, unless you pay extra for it. I would have, but it wasn't an option. And in the same newsletter, it said that if Windows 7 fell, Microsoft would fall to #2 behind Linux. I don't have to burst this person's bubble, I believe it already has been bursted. I have since unsubscribed from all Linux fourms and newsletters. Most of the newsletters, conspiracy claims were brought up about Microsoft and their executives. No one can prove any of their claims, including they tried to buy Linux and all of their distros, to get them out of the way. I don't believe a word of it, why don't they pick on Apple for a while? I'd like to hear the words of a Mac OS user who is called a "freeloader". It wouldn't be a pretty sight, I promise it. Veedaz, I'm going to install that Paragon software on my XP laptops to try it out. It looks promising. They have sent me emails on backup software before, but not like this.
 

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