Folder query

M

Mick

Why are folders in "Documents" also showing in the temporary burns folder?
(found under "my name" in left hand list in "Computer")
I deleted the files in the temporary burns folder and they went from
"Documents" too ?
Have them backed up thankfully
Mick.

Desktop Computer system.
AMD Phenom (tm) II X 4 965 Processor 3.40 GHz
ASRock 96OGM- GS3 FX Motherboard
6GB DDR3 1333Mhz DRAM
ATI HD 5670 51MB GDDR5 DVI VGA HDMI Out Graphics
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64 bit Operating System
Office 2007
 
B

BobbyM

Why are folders in "Documents" also showing in the temporary burns folder?
(found under "my name" in left hand list in "Computer")
I deleted the files in the temporary burns folder and they went from
"Documents" too ?
Have them backed up thankfully
Mick.

Desktop Computer system.
AMD Phenom (tm) II X 4 965 Processor 3.40 GHz
ASRock 96OGM- GS3 FX Motherboard
6GB DDR3 1333Mhz DRAM
ATI HD 5670 51MB GDDR5 DVI VGA HDMI Out Graphics
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64 bit Operating System
Office 2007
Have you by chance set up a library called "temporary burns"? If so,
you might want to check your recycle bin unless you dumped it after
deleting those files.
 
M

Mick

"BobbyM" wrote in message
Why are folders in "Documents" also showing in the temporary burns folder?
(found under "my name" in left hand list in "Computer")
I deleted the files in the temporary burns folder and they went from
"Documents" too ?
Have them backed up thankfully
Mick.

Desktop Computer system.
AMD Phenom (tm) II X 4 965 Processor 3.40 GHz
ASRock 96OGM- GS3 FX Motherboard
6GB DDR3 1333Mhz DRAM
ATI HD 5670 51MB GDDR5 DVI VGA HDMI Out Graphics
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64 bit Operating System
Office 2007
Have you by chance set up a library called "temporary burns"? If so,
you might want to check your recycle bin unless you dumped it after
deleting those files.

Hi thanks for replying,
Is it that the " temporary burns folder"
has been added?
If it it must have been the computer builder for some reason?

So i take it I had best just ignore the " temporary burns folder" or can I
remove it?
Thanks again,
Mick.
 
B

BobbyM

"BobbyM" wrote in message


Have you by chance set up a library called "temporary burns"? If so,
you might want to check your recycle bin unless you dumped it after
deleting those files.

Hi thanks for replying,
Is it that the " temporary burns
folder" has been added?
If it it must have been the computer builder for some reason?

So i take it I had best just ignore the " temporary burns folder" or can
I remove it?
Thanks again,
From what I've read, a "temporary burns" folder is created when you
indicate files that you want to burn to CD but haven't burned them yet.
If you don't want to burn those files, then it would be safe to delete
them and/or the folder itself, but as you've already found out, back
them up to another location before you delete them if you need the
files. Windows will likely create a new "temporary burns" folder if you
select files at a later time to be burned. I don't use the Windows
burning tools so I can't verify that info; I prefer to use other
software for that purpose.
 
W

Wolf K

Why are folders in "Documents" also showing in the temporary burns folder?
(found under "my name" in left hand list in "Computer")
I deleted the files in the temporary burns folder and they went from
"Documents" too ?
Have them backed up thankfully
Mick.

Desktop Computer system.
AMD Phenom (tm) II X 4 965 Processor 3.40 GHz
ASRock 96OGM- GS3 FX Motherboard
6GB DDR3 1333Mhz DRAM
ATI HD 5670 51MB GDDR5 DVI VGA HDMI Out Graphics
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64 bit Operating System
Office 2007
The reason is that Libraries are a mix of "real" folders/files, and
links (shortcuts). I have yet to find a clear explanation of how these
links are handled, or what happens when you create new "folders" in a
library, or when you delete a folder or a file (you can delete the
actual file, you know, not just the Library link), and so on. Other
posters have suggested that the cause of your puzzlement may be that you
created the Temporary Burn folder from within a library. Could be.

IMO, Libraries are badly designed and implemented. I advise against
using Libraries until MS fixes them. I use my own custom folder trees
and shortcuts: then I _know_ what will happen when I delete/move a
folder or file.
 
W

Wolf K

On 26/07/2012 8:33 AM, BobbyM wrote:
[...]
From what I've read, a "temporary burns" folder is created when you
indicate files that you want to burn to CD but haven't burned them yet.
[...]

Another example of a badly thought-through "simplification". Sigh. I
have created my own folder for CD images, named "CD Images", of course.
;-) The CD/DVD burning software I use
a) asks whether to store the CD image after closing the burn; and
b) offers a browse button; and
c) has been set to store all images in /CD Images.

Much safer.
 
M

Mick

"Wolf K" wrote in message

Why are folders in "Documents" also showing in the temporary burns folder?
(found under "my name" in left hand list in "Computer")
I deleted the files in the temporary burns folder and they went from
"Documents" too ?
Have them backed up thankfully
Mick.

Desktop Computer system.
AMD Phenom (tm) II X 4 965 Processor 3.40 GHz
ASRock 96OGM- GS3 FX Motherboard
6GB DDR3 1333Mhz DRAM
ATI HD 5670 51MB GDDR5 DVI VGA HDMI Out Graphics
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64 bit Operating System
Office 2007
The reason is that Libraries are a mix of "real" folders/files, and
links (shortcuts). I have yet to find a clear explanation of how these
links are handled, or what happens when you create new "folders" in a
library, or when you delete a folder or a file (you can delete the
actual file, you know, not just the Library link), and so on. Other
posters have suggested that the cause of your puzzlement may be that you
created the Temporary Burn folder from within a library. Could be.

IMO, Libraries are badly designed and implemented. I advise against
using Libraries until MS fixes them. I use my own custom folder trees
and shortcuts: then I _know_ what will happen when I delete/move a
folder or file.

--
Best,
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.ca

Thanks,
I know I did not create the Temporary Burn folder.
Puzzling.
Mick.
 
C

Char Jackson

The reason is that Libraries are a mix of "real" folders/files, and
links (shortcuts). I have yet to find a clear explanation of how these
links are handled, or what happens when you create new "folders" in a
library, or when you delete a folder or a file (you can delete the
actual file, you know, not just the Library link), and so on.
Windows Help has what I call a very clear explanation of Libraries and
how to use them. It just takes a few minutes to skim through it and
practice with a few examples. For example, a quick read would tell you
that there's no 'mix of "real" folders/files, and links (shortcuts)',
and it would tell you exactly what happens when you create a new
folder, delete a folder, create a new file, or delete a file. It's
quite straightforward.

This being a relatively new feature, I can understand some initial
confusion, but Windows 7 has been available for quite a few years
already. Considering that it only takes a few minutes to grasp the
concept, I don't understand the reluctance.
IMO, Libraries are badly designed and implemented. I advise against
using Libraries until MS fixes them.
As far as I can tell, they aren't broken. It sounds to me like you
haven't taken a few minutes to read how they work.
I use my own custom folder trees and shortcuts: then I _know_ what
will happen when I delete/move a folder or file.
I have the same level of confidence with Libraries, but by all means,
use whatever works for you.
 
M

Mick

"Char Jackson" wrote in message

The reason is that Libraries are a mix of "real" folders/files, and
links (shortcuts). I have yet to find a clear explanation of how these
links are handled, or what happens when you create new "folders" in a
library, or when you delete a folder or a file (you can delete the
actual file, you know, not just the Library link), and so on.
Windows Help has what I call a very clear explanation of Libraries and
how to use them. It just takes a few minutes to skim through it and
practice with a few examples. For example, a quick read would tell you
that there's no 'mix of "real" folders/files, and links (shortcuts)',
and it would tell you exactly what happens when you create a new
folder, delete a folder, create a new file, or delete a file. It's
quite straightforward.

This being a relatively new feature, I can understand some initial
confusion, but Windows 7 has been available for quite a few years
already. Considering that it only takes a few minutes to grasp the
concept, I don't understand the reluctance.
IMO, Libraries are badly designed and implemented. I advise against
using Libraries until MS fixes them.
As far as I can tell, they aren't broken. It sounds to me like you
haven't taken a few minutes to read how they work.
I use my own custom folder trees and shortcuts: then I _know_ what
will happen when I delete/move a folder or file.
I have the same level of confidence with Libraries, but by all means,
use whatever works for you.

--
Char Jackson

Thank you Char,
I have had this win 7 computer around two weeks
and have had all sorts of problems so far.
In the documents folder from Computer when i open it it still says
"documents Library" i would like to know if that's where documents should
go?

I will look in Windows help.
Mick.
 
C

Char Jackson

Thank you Char,
You're welcome.
I have had this win 7 computer around two weeks and have had
all sorts of problems so far.
This is a good group of knowledgeable folks. I learn from them on a
regular basis. Feel free to ask your Windows 7 questions here.
In the documents folder from Computer when i open it it still says
"documents Library" i would like to know if that's where documents
should go?
A "Library" is a collection of other folders, so the Documents Library
is just a collection of your personal documents folder and your Public
documents folder. When you open the Documents Library, look in the
right hand pane where it says Documents Library and notice the small
blue text immediately below that, where it says "Includes: 2
locations". Click that blue text and a small window opens that tells
you what those two locations are, and which of them is the default.

So yes, feel free to use the Documents Library, or you can use the
actual documents folders, personal or public or both.
I will look in Windows help.
Always a good idea. The help files in Win 7 are actually quite good,
which is something I wouldn't have said about earlier versions of
Windows. Some people actually buy books to help them learn the new
stuff, but I think everything you need is already there.
 
W

Wolf K

[...]

Thanks Char, I have read it, more than once, and it is confused and
confusing because it mirrors the confused and confusing design of
"Library". Specifically:

a) " Libraries don't actually store your items."
But:
b) "If you delete files or folders from within a library, they are also
deleted from their original locations".

Wazzat again?????

If the Library doesn't actually store the items, then why are they
deleted from their original locations when deleted from a Library?

The core concept of "Library" is:

c) "They monitor folders that contain your items, and let you access and
arrange the items in different ways."

I interpret that to mean that a Library is an ordered collection/list of
pointers, a type of shortcut. But they don't behave like shortcuts.
Deleting an item from a Library should mean deleting that pointer, and
nothing else. That's why I think "Library" is badly designed.

I'm glad you have found a style of safe use that works for you.
--
Char Jackson

Thank you Char,
I have had this win 7 computer around two weeks and have had all sorts
of problems so far.
In the documents folder from Computer when i open it it still says
"documents Library" i would like to know if that's where documents
should go?

I will look in Windows help.
Mick.
IMO documents should go where _you_ want them to go, not some default
location decided by someone else. However, if a default location is
acceptable, at the very least it should not be in a system folder.
 
C

Char Jackson

[...]

Thanks Char, I have read it, more than once, and it is confused and
confusing because it mirrors the confused and confusing design of
"Library".
Is that double speak or circular logic? :)
Specifically:

a) " Libraries don't actually store your items."
Restated: "Libraries don't actually store COPIES OF your items."
But:
b) "If you delete files or folders from within a library, they are also
deleted from their original locations".
Restated: "If you delete files from within a library, they are also
deleted from their original locations. If you delete folders from
within a library, the folder is simply removed from the Library."
(My copy of Windows Help says it like I've said it above.)
Wazzat again?????

If the Library doesn't actually store the items, then why are they
deleted from their original locations when deleted from a Library?
See if my restatements help. It's actually such a simple concept that
I suspect otherwise intelligent people are just overthinking it.
The core concept of "Library" is:

c) "They monitor folders that contain your items, and let you access and
arrange the items in different ways."

I interpret that to mean that a Library is an ordered collection/list of
pointers, a type of shortcut.
Your interpretation is obviously wrong.
But they don't behave like shortcuts.
Deleting an item from a Library should mean deleting that pointer, and
nothing else. That's why I think "Library" is badly designed.
Wouldn't it be easier to just correct your interpretation rather than
saying the concept is broken and needs to be fixed?
I'm glad you have found a style of safe use that works for you.
Yep, thanks.
IMO documents should go where _you_ want them to go, not some default
location decided by someone else.
Before MS came up with the My Documents hierarchy (and its subfolders
and successors in later versions of Windows), people saved and stored
their files anywhere and everywhere, so if you ask me it was an
excellent move on the part of MS. It helps unorganized people to be
slightly more organized, and that's a good thing.
However, if a default location is
acceptable, at the very least it should not be in a system folder.
???
 
E

Ed Cryer

Wolf said:
[...]

Thanks Char, I have read it, more than once, and it is confused and
confusing because it mirrors the confused and confusing design of
"Library". Specifically:

a) " Libraries don't actually store your items."
But:
b) "If you delete files or folders from within a library, they are also
deleted from their original locations".

Wazzat again?????

If the Library doesn't actually store the items, then why are they
deleted from their original locations when deleted from a Library?

The core concept of "Library" is:

c) "They monitor folders that contain your items, and let you access and
arrange the items in different ways."

I interpret that to mean that a Library is an ordered collection/list of
pointers, a type of shortcut. But they don't behave like shortcuts.
Deleting an item from a Library should mean deleting that pointer, and
nothing else. That's why I think "Library" is badly designed.

I'm glad you have found a style of safe use that works for you.
--
Char Jackson

Thank you Char,
I have had this win 7 computer around two weeks and have had all sorts
of problems so far.
In the documents folder from Computer when i open it it still says
"documents Library" i would like to know if that's where documents
should go?

I will look in Windows help.
Mick.
IMO documents should go where _you_ want them to go, not some default
location decided by someone else. However, if a default location is
acceptable, at the very least it should not be in a system folder.
Windows has a built-in, native way of storing records; a hierarchy
hard-wired into the very depths of the OS. You can view this through
Windows Explorer; top down from C: to the lowest level in any tree; and
this propagates into new partitions that you might start.

That is a fixed way of organising data. Call it a database if you will,
but it's not very flexible; you can only search through the lines and
connections made, but to get from one branch of the tree to another you
have to go back up the branch you're on to the top, change to another
one and go down that.

It could be that you have photos at various points on various branches;
and if you want to look at "all photos on my computer" you have to
progress through that fixed hierarchy.

When you start a "library" what you do is link all the chosen folders in
all the different branches directly, so that they can be accessed
quickly through direct links. This doesn't duplicate the contents of
those folders; it merely provides shortcuts to them, all connected in a
chain. You can then handle them more quickly.
But, Windows allows you to add data, change data and delete data in the
folders in both hierarchies; and the contents of those folders will look
exactly the same whether you view them through the native hierarchy of
Win Explorer or the Library view. Delete a folder in either of those
views, and they get deleted in the other.

Ed
 
C

Char Jackson

Wolf said:
[...]

Thanks Char, I have read it, more than once, and it is confused and
confusing because it mirrors the confused and confusing design of
"Library". Specifically:

a) " Libraries don't actually store your items."
But:
b) "If you delete files or folders from within a library, they are also
deleted from their original locations".

Wazzat again?????

If the Library doesn't actually store the items, then why are they
deleted from their original locations when deleted from a Library?

The core concept of "Library" is:

c) "They monitor folders that contain your items, and let you access and
arrange the items in different ways."

I interpret that to mean that a Library is an ordered collection/list of
pointers, a type of shortcut. But they don't behave like shortcuts.
Deleting an item from a Library should mean deleting that pointer, and
nothing else. That's why I think "Library" is badly designed.

I'm glad you have found a style of safe use that works for you.
--
Char Jackson

Thank you Char,
I have had this win 7 computer around two weeks and have had all sorts
of problems so far.
In the documents folder from Computer when i open it it still says
"documents Library" i would like to know if that's where documents
should go?

I will look in Windows help.
Mick.
IMO documents should go where _you_ want them to go, not some default
location decided by someone else. However, if a default location is
acceptable, at the very least it should not be in a system folder.
Windows has a built-in, native way of storing records; a hierarchy
hard-wired into the very depths of the OS. You can view this through
Windows Explorer; top down from C: to the lowest level in any tree; and
this propagates into new partitions that you might start.

That is a fixed way of organising data. Call it a database if you will,
but it's not very flexible; you can only search through the lines and
connections made, but to get from one branch of the tree to another you
have to go back up the branch you're on to the top, change to another
one and go down that.

It could be that you have photos at various points on various branches;
and if you want to look at "all photos on my computer" you have to
progress through that fixed hierarchy.

When you start a "library" what you do is link all the chosen folders in
all the different branches directly, so that they can be accessed
quickly through direct links. This doesn't duplicate the contents of
those folders; it merely provides shortcuts to them, all connected in a
chain. You can then handle them more quickly.
But, Windows allows you to add data, change data and delete data in the
folders in both hierarchies; and the contents of those folders will look
exactly the same whether you view them through the native hierarchy of
Win Explorer or the Library view. Delete a folder in either of those
views, and they get deleted in the other.
Two corrections, if I may.
This doesn't duplicate the contents of
those folders; it merely provides shortcuts to them
They actually aren't shortcuts. They're the real deal.
Delete a folder in either of those
views, and they get deleted in the other.
That should say, "Delete a FILE in either of those views, and it gets
deleted in the other." When you 'delete' a folder from a Library, the
folder is simply removed from the Library, not deleted from the disk
volume.
 
E

Ed Cryer

They actually aren't shortcuts. They're the real deal.


That should say, "Delete a FILE in either of those views, and it gets
deleted in the other." When you 'delete' a folder from a Library, the
folder is simply removed from the Library, not deleted from the disk
volume.
You'll have to justify both those claims.

Ed
 
M

Mick

"Mick" wrote in message

Why are folders in "Documents" also showing in the temporary burns folder?
(found under "my name" in left hand list in "Computer")
I deleted the files in the temporary burns folder and they went from
"Documents" too ?
Have them backed up thankfully
Mick.

Well after having had explained how to get to the folder that "should"
contain the documents by clicking on the !files in 2 locations" in documents
library it has that the folder called "temporary burns folder" is the
location of the documents!

I defiantly did not set the folder, and when I got the computer 2 weeks ago
put the document files in the "Document" folder under "Computer"
So I at least now know not to empty the "temporary burns folder"

Mick.
 
B

BobbyM

Windows Help has what I call a very clear explanation of Libraries and
how to use them. It just takes a few minutes to skim through it and
practice with a few examples. For example, a quick read would tell you
that there's no 'mix of "real" folders/files, and links (shortcuts)',
and it would tell you exactly what happens when you create a new
folder, delete a folder, create a new file, or delete a file. It's
quite straightforward.

This being a relatively new feature, I can understand some initial
confusion, but Windows 7 has been available for quite a few years
already. Considering that it only takes a few minutes to grasp the
concept, I don't understand the reluctance.


As far as I can tell, they aren't broken. It sounds to me like you
haven't taken a few minutes to read how they work.


I have the same level of confidence with Libraries, but by all means,
use whatever works for you.
Agree completely with you here, Char. I've found Libraries to be a
helpful/useful little addition, provided I set them up according to how
I intend to use them & occasionally modify them as the need arises.
 
C

Char Jackson

You'll have to justify both those claims.
All of this back and forth even has me confused. From Windows Help:
"If you delete files or folders from within a library, they're also
deleted from their original locations. If you want to remove an item
from a library but not delete it from the location it's stored in, you
should remove the folder containing the item. When you remove a folder
from a library, all the items in the folder will be removed (but not
deleted)."

I confused deleting a folder from a library versus removing the folder
from a library.

As for the shortcuts deal, you can test that and see for yourself.
It's also covered in the paragraph above.
 
C

Char Jackson

Agree completely with you here, Char. I've found Libraries to be a
helpful/useful little addition, provided I set them up according to how
I intend to use them & occasionally modify them as the need arises.
That's my approach, as well. Of the four defaults, I use the Documents
library the most, but I've also played with creating my own Libraries
when the need arises, adding and removing folders as necessary.
 
B

BobbyM

All of this back and forth even has me confused. From Windows Help:
"If you delete files or folders from within a library, they're also
deleted from their original locations. If you want to remove an item
from a library but not delete it from the location it's stored in, you
should remove the folder containing the item. When you remove a folder
from a library, all the items in the folder will be removed (but not
deleted)."

I confused deleting a folder from a library versus removing the folder
from a library.

As for the shortcuts deal, you can test that and see for yourself.
It's also covered in the paragraph above.
I consider "Libraries" & the name of each "library" to be shortcuts but
the files/folders that reside within each library are not shortcuts. If
you check the file path of any folder/file within a particular library,
you'll find that it's the path where the file is actually stored. While
you may be working from a Library, you are working with the exact same
file that is stored elsewhere on your computer. Modify it or delete it
from the library & you do the same at its original store. (If it were a
shortcut, the file in the original store wouldn't be effected.)

People who considers the files in the libraries as shortcuts are the
ones who will delete files and then wonder why they can't find them in
their original store (or delete them from the original store & wonder
why they're no longer in the library). Once you understand the concept
of Libraries & set them up to benefit you, they can be a great time
saver. If you don't want to go to the trouble, you're probably better
off staying out of the Library!
 

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