7 Networking and Drive problems


D

DrArm

I just installed Win 7 pro on a new PC (and I hate it already).

Problem 1: I cannot connect to my Windows network where my XP and Win2k
computers are located and have no trouble seeing each other. What do I
have to do to make a network connection with them?
Other than the Home network that doesnt connect to anything and seems to
require Win 7 on the other computers, I cant find Windows Network.

As usual Help is no help and W-Explorer is useless also.

Also, 7 installed ok on the C:, but it is not seeing the second HDD even
though the system BIOS hardware is seeing it just fine. C: is there and
D: is the DVD drive but the second HDD (still unformatged and unpart'ed,
afaik). Again, what gives here?
 
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P

Paul

DrArm said:
I just installed Win 7 pro on a new PC (and I hate it already).

Problem 1: I cannot connect to my Windows network where my XP and Win2k
computers are located and have no trouble seeing each other. What do I
have to do to make a network connection with them?
Other than the Home network that doesnt connect to anything and seems to
require Win 7 on the other computers, I cant find Windows Network.

As usual Help is no help and W-Explorer is useless also.

Also, 7 installed ok on the C:, but it is not seeing the second HDD even
though the system BIOS hardware is seeing it just fine. C: is there and
D: is the DVD drive but the second HDD (still unformatged and unpart'ed,
afaik). Again, what gives here?
You use WORKGROUP instead of Home Group.

Various pictures here, may lead you in the right direction.

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/51711-workgroup-name-view-change.html

I use a WORKGROUP value of WORKGROUP here. (Very original, eh ? :) )
All the machines belong to that WORKGROUP of WORKGROUP.

*******

In the Start, try typing "diskmgmt.msc", which is the control
panel for Disk Management. See if the disk is listed there.
Or check "devmgmt.msc", the Device Manager, to see if the
disk is listed at all there. No point of looking in Disk Management,
if the drive also happens to be missing from Device Manager.

I don't know whether ownership can affect a partition not
showing up. But someone here, managed to screw up an external
drive a bit, and needed to use Safe Mode to fix it.

http://www.sevenforums.com/hardware-devices/148881-lost-access-ext-hdd.html

Paul
 
J

John Williamson

DrArm said:
I just installed Win 7 pro on a new PC (and I hate it already).

Problem 1: I cannot connect to my Windows network where my XP and Win2k
computers are located and have no trouble seeing each other. What do I
have to do to make a network connection with them?
Other than the Home network that doesnt connect to anything and seems to
require Win 7 on the other computers, I cant find Windows Network.

As usual Help is no help and W-Explorer is useless also.
If you go through the archive on this group, this subject has been
covered quite a few times.

Link Layer Topology Discovery needs to be installed on the XP and 2K
machines, or you can make a workgroup out of your XP/ 2K network, and
join the workgroup with the Windows 7 machine. You need to have the same
user account name and password on all the machines to access your
non-shared data.
Also, 7 installed ok on the C:, but it is not seeing the second HDD even
though the system BIOS hardware is seeing it just fine. C: is there and
D: is the DVD drive but the second HDD (still unformatged and unpart'ed,
afaik). Again, what gives here?
You need to open Disc Management in the Admin Tools in Control Panel,
and partition and format the second HDD from there.

Until you do this, Explorer won't see the drive.
 
D

DrArm

In the Start, try typing "diskmgmt.msc", which is the control
panel for Disk Management. See if the disk is listed there.
Or check "devmgmt.msc", the Device Manager, to see if the
disk is listed at all there. No point of looking in Disk Management,
if the drive also happens to be missing from Device Manager.

I don't know whether ownership can affect a partition not
showing up. But someone here, managed to screw up an external
drive a bit, and needed to use Safe Mode to fix it.

http://www.sevenforums.com/hardware-devices/148881-lost-access-ext-hdd.html

Paul
OK The drive is present in the diskmgmt (which I expected to find under
disk management is Admin tools).

But I cant figure what to do with it now.

WHAT I WANT TO DO is create several virtual drives in an extended
partition. I want to start with D:, then E: then F:... right now D: is
the DVD. I used to be able to change these in w2k to something else.

It does not give me those options. What it allows is to create VHD
(virtual hard drive?) but then it wants a LOCATION,

Where the hell am I going to get a location from? When I select browse
it takes me to an explorer window and I get nowhere from that so no
partitioning, either with MBR or GPT.

what moron designed this abortion of a system???

As for the network, I tried the Work group but it wont let me go on a
network because its already on a network, the Internet connection.

One screwup after another.
 
P

Paul

DrArm said:
OK The drive is present in the diskmgmt (which I expected to find under
disk management is Admin tools).

But I cant figure what to do with it now.

WHAT I WANT TO DO is create several virtual drives in an extended
partition. I want to start with D:, then E: then F:... right now D: is
the DVD. I used to be able to change these in w2k to something else.

It does not give me those options. What it allows is to create VHD
(virtual hard drive?) but then it wants a LOCATION,

Where the hell am I going to get a location from? When I select browse
it takes me to an explorer window and I get nowhere from that so no
partitioning, either with MBR or GPT.

what moron designed this abortion of a system???

As for the network, I tried the Work group but it wont let me go on a
network because its already on a network, the Internet connection.

One screwup after another.
I have Windows 7 on a laptop. I can't stand the touchpad, and plug in a
three button mouse (includes scroll wheel). The right button gets as much
usage, as the left button.

In Disk Management, you right-click on a rectangle in there, and a menu
appears. Since my disk already has four partitions, I can't check for
a "create extended" option or anything.

According to this:

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/146694-partition-extended-logical-drives.html

you can use the Microsoft utility "diskpart", which is a command line
version of Disk Management. It's relatively easy to use. You first
"list" things at a certain level, then "select" a particular item
for manipulation. Then issue the actual command.

Go to the Start thing, and type "cmd". When the search finds "cmd.exe",
right-click on it and select "Run as Administrator". That "elevates"
the command prompt window (commands run in there, now run as
administrator). Since "diskpart" fiddles with admin level stuff,
you'll probably need to be elevated.

When "cmd.exe" runs, it opens an MSDOS-like window. In there, type "diskpart"
to start an interactive Disk Management session. This is copied from the
above article, with a few comments.

list disk <---- this shows the disk numbers, and should
correspond to the disk numbering in
Disk Management
select disk 2 <---- Select the empty disk, the one needing
the extended

create partition extended size=61440 <---- 60GiB of extended space = 60*1024 megabytes
60GB of extended space would be "60000"
The disk drive companies use "GB".

list partition <---- Check what you've just done.
In one sense, "Extended" is not really a
partition as such. But in another sense, it
uses one of four MBR slots, so it should get
listed.

exit
exit <---- diskpart has sublevels, so more than one
exit may be needed to quit the program.

Now, you could stay in that tool, and create all your logicals as well.
But you can also go back to Disk Management, right click in the new
weirdly colored Extended partition, and create them graphically.
I'd test that here, but my disk is fully partitioned :) No room
to play any more.

Note - tools that modify disks, don't like other "disk management like"
tools to be open at the same time. So when you're running "diskpart",
you can close the Disk Management window. When "diskpart" is quit, you
can go back and open Disk Management again. Not all tools will necessarily
get upset, but I've seen this enough times now, I automatically close
out all other "disk managers" before working with one of them.

*******

You need to check that the thing is set to use Workgroups, and that
all the computers use the same workgroup name. Try a reboot, if
you get tired of fighting with it. And make sure you use
the same username and password, for when you connect to a share.

If you can't browse and find the share, there are command line
options you can try. At least, I use the equivalent of one of
these in Linux, when connecting to a Windows share. (I use IP
address values, to cut out any broken browsing behavior, where
the machines simply refuse to list the network neighborhood.)
But only resort to this, if you've tried the "GUI way" and
there is no joy.

http://www.sevenforums.com/network-sharing/58238-net-use-doesnt-work-windows-7-computer.html

Another example here.

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en/w7itpronetworking/thread/9644cbf3-1772-4faf-a11a-84e66cf0ffab

Paul
 
K

Ken Blake

I just installed Win 7 pro on a new PC (and I hate it already).

Here's my view: With the possible exception of Windows 8 (which I
don't know enough about yet), it's the best and most stable version of
Windows ever.

If you just installed it, it's *way* too soon for you to have any
opinions about it. You haven't yet learned how to use it properly, how
to configure it to match your way of working, what you need to do
differently from what you are accustomed to, what its strengths are,
what its weaknesses are, and so on.

Problem 1: I cannot connect to my Windows network where my XP and Win2k
computers are located and have no trouble seeing each other. What do I
have to do to make a network connection with them?
Other than the Home network that doesnt connect to anything and seems to
require Win 7 on the other computers, I cant find Windows Network.

A homegroup is for Windows 7 computers only. Get rid of it, and set up
a workgroup instead.

As usual Help is no help

Maybe, but a web search could have very quickly told you what I just
wrote above.

and W-Explorer is useless also.

Also, 7 installed ok on the C:, but it is not seeing the second HDD even
though the system BIOS hardware is seeing it just fine. C: is there and
D: is the DVD drive but the second HDD (still unformatged and unpart'ed,
afaik). Again, what gives here?

An unpartitioned and unformatted drive can't be seen. There's nothing
new here; that was the same in prior versions of Windows.
 
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W

...winston

Link Layer Topology Discovery does not need to be installed on XP.
LLTD only provides the ability to show a graphical map of the network in Vista/Win7/Win8
- it serves no other purpose and is not used to connect, access, or view shared files across the network

The name pretty much defines its purpose.
- topology = a topographical picture; schematic description
- discovery = allows Vista/Win7/Win8 to discover the XP machine on the network and draw the graphical map
- i.e. the XP machine has to be present on the network for the map to be drawn.



--
....winston
msft mvp mail


"John Williamson" wrote in message
I just installed Win 7 pro on a new PC (and I hate it already).
Problem 1: I cannot connect to my Windows network where my XP and Win2k
computers are located and have no trouble seeing each other. What do I
have to do to make a network connection with them? Other than the Home network that doesnt connect to anything and seems to
require Win 7 on the other computers, I cant find Windows Network.

As usual Help is no help and W-Explorer is useless also.
If you go through the archive on this group, this subject has been
covered quite a few times.

Link Layer Topology Discovery needs to be installed on the XP and 2K
machines, or you can make a workgroup out of your XP/ 2K network, and
join the workgroup with the Windows 7 machine. You need to have the same
user account name and password on all the machines to access your
non-shared data.
Also, 7 installed ok on the C:, but it is not seeing the second HDD even
though the system BIOS hardware is seeing it just fine. C: is there and
D: is the DVD drive but the second HDD (still unformatged and unpart'ed,
afaik). Again, what gives here?
You need to open Disc Management in the Admin Tools in Control Panel,
and partition and format the second HDD from there.

Until you do this, Explorer won't see the drive.
 
W

...winston

1. Use Workgroup instead of HomeGroup (the latter is only for Win7 to Win7 machines)
2. Ensure the Workgroup has the same name on all machines
3. Ensure a folder (and if desired a printer) is shared on all machines
4. Ensure a common Windows user profile name and password exists on all machines
- the profile does not need to be used but should be present.
i.e. if the XP machine has a user profile named Elvis and the Win7 user profile Willie, create an Elvis userprofile on Win7 and a
Willie on XP.
5. Optionally - configure the router to dispense the same ip address to each computer on the network by assigning a static ip
address to each networked pc's respective mac address (usually accomplished via the router's DHCP configuration)

--
....winston
msft mvp mail


"DrArm" wrote in message
I just installed Win 7 pro on a new PC (and I hate it already).

Problem 1: I cannot connect to my Windows network where my XP and Win2k
computers are located and have no trouble seeing each other. What do I
have to do to make a network connection with them?
Other than the Home network that doesnt connect to anything and seems to
require Win 7 on the other computers, I cant find Windows Network.

As usual Help is no help and W-Explorer is useless also.

Also, 7 installed ok on the C:, but it is not seeing the second HDD even
though the system BIOS hardware is seeing it just fine. C: is there and
D: is the DVD drive but the second HDD (still unformatged and unpart'ed,
afaik). Again, what gives here?
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

Here's my view: With the possible exception of Windows 8 (which I
don't know enough about yet), it's the best and most stable version of
Windows ever.

If you just installed it, it's *way* too soon for you to have any
opinions about it. You haven't yet learned how to use it properly, how
to configure it to match your way of working, what you need to do
differently from what you are accustomed to, what its strengths are,
what its weaknesses are, and so on.


A homegroup is for Windows 7 computers only. Get rid of it, and set up
a workgroup instead.



Maybe, but a web search could have very quickly told you what I just
wrote above.


An unpartitioned and unformatted drive can't be seen. There's nothing
new here; that was the same in prior versions of Windows.
Nice clear and rational discussion. I hope the OP bothers to read it.

AND understand it...
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

4. Ensure a common Windows user profile name and password exists on all machines
- the profile does not need to be used but should be present.
i.e. if the XP machine has a user profile named Elvis and the Win7 user profile Willie, create an Elvis userprofile on Win7 and a
Willie on XP.
I have an extra two cents in my pocket, so:

My similar choice was to create a new unused account on all machines
with the name EmmyLou and the password Harris_301. The name I really
used is not anyone's actual username and likely won't ever be, even by
accident.

She is a standard user, *not* an administrator user.

Maybe both of those choices aren't necessary, but merely a function of
some degree of paranoia or some sense (however misguided) of how things
should be done :)
 
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G

Gene E. Bloch

I have an extra two cents in my pocket, so:

My similar choice was to create a new unused account on all machines
with the name EmmyLou and the password Harris_301. The name I really
used is not anyone's actual username and likely won't ever be, even by
accident.

She is a standard user, *not* an administrator user.

Maybe both of those choices aren't necessary, but merely a function of
some degree of paranoia or some sense (however misguided) of how things
should be done :)
Well, maybe that's the way I used to do it. I see that I'm doing it your
way currently.

After thinking about it after I sent the above reply, I recall that my
reasoning for an EmmyLou account on every machine is that it's a
consistent and easy way to make sure there is a shared account
everywhere in the network. And maybe I didn't realize a couple of years
ago that your way would work :)
 
C

charlie

Well, maybe that's the way I used to do it. I see that I'm doing it your
way currently.

After thinking about it after I sent the above reply, I recall that my
reasoning for an EmmyLou account on every machine is that it's a
consistent and easy way to make sure there is a shared account
everywhere in the network. And maybe I didn't realize a couple of years
ago that your way would work :)

Some years ago, we started using a lan based WD HD as a common
storage/backup location. It is one of those devices that has a modicum
of intelligence and some minimal form of a linux based administrative
supervisory program. Worked very well, until XP and later, where
additional user protections, etc were added.
With each new win version, we had to mess around with it's user
accounts, access, etc. to restore normal operation.

When win 7 came along, even with a common user on the various P/Cs it
still had some strange behavior. One P/C might be able to access some
but not all sub-directories, another all, none, or a different group of
sub-directories. In essence, a user established with a version of
windows was somehow different than the same user name and password
established by/on another version of windows, or on a different P/C.

The final fix was to (of all things) log into the drive using a linux
based tablet, and redo all the users. Why this worked I have no idea.
One of the solved problems was the driver for the effort, and
had to do with some directories and files that were flagged as write
protected, even from the originating user, when the file or directory
was sent to the drive from some (but not all) of the P/Cs.

UAC on or off seemed to have some effect, prior to using the tablet to
fix things.

It was my son's tablet, and he is the linux person, not me.
Besides, I hate using touch screen thingys with small displays.
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

Why this worked I have no idea.
That seems to be a common experience. At least it happens to me often
enough (read that as 'too often').

One might argue that your experience shows a problem with Windows, but
even that might not be the case.

In your shoes I would probably have started tearing my hair out - if you
don't mind a weirdly mixed metaphor :)
 
C

charlie

That seems to be a common experience. At least it happens to me often
enough (read that as 'too often').

One might argue that your experience shows a problem with Windows, but
even that might not be the case.

In your shoes I would probably have started tearing my hair out - if you
don't mind a weirdly mixed metaphor :)
Pure conjecture - -
Windows somehow uses "flags" in the file system(s)
Some of these have defined uses, and are toggle-able from such places as
the properties box. Others are not. Linux seemingly has the ability
(However it's implemented) to get at flags that cannot be easily gotten
at using the usual windows methods. UAC may be able to get at some, I
don't know. In the DOS days, Norton was useful for this sort of thing.
Another possibility has to do with Linux and the Linux equivalent of
"The Administrator".

I really don't know, and don't want to expend the time and effort to
find out. (One of the advantages of being retired, I suppose.)

There is an almost ready to fly RC Model of a P-51 in the Shed/shop
calling my name.
60" wingspread
1600W Electric Motor 5AH 24V battery
Electric retract gear, Flaps
Telemetry (Battery Voltage, Altitude, G-Force, Battery or Engine
Temperature, and even Airspeed(If I can figure out sensor placement)

Things left to do before the weekend maiden flight.
Get the wheels aligned and file slots in the gear legs to help keep the
alignment.
Mount and connect sensors to the already installed electronics.
Check and adjust Weight and Balance.
Check and adjust control surface travel and centering at high an low
sensitivity settings.
 
P

Paul

charlie said:
Pure conjecture - -
Windows somehow uses "flags" in the file system(s)
Some of these have defined uses, and are toggle-able from such places as
the properties box. Others are not. Linux seemingly has the ability
(However it's implemented) to get at flags that cannot be easily gotten
at using the usual windows methods. UAC may be able to get at some, I
don't know. In the DOS days, Norton was useful for this sort of thing.
Another possibility has to do with Linux and the Linux equivalent of
"The Administrator".
I can save you some of the suspense. Linux does not honor the permissions
on the NTFS file system. That's why you can access any file in there and
screw around with it, via Linux. And, I haven't a clue what permissions
are assigned to a file, if you write out a fresh file to an NTFS
partition from Linux. (If I really cared about that aspect,
I'd fix it later from the Windows side. That need has never arisen.)

They may fix that some day. But right now, it's pretty convenient
the way it works at present.

http://b.andre.pagesperso-orange.fr/advanced-ntfs-3g.html

The Linux driver, doesn't necessarily work with all aspects of
the file system. For example, it may not handle journaling properly.
So if your file system is "dirty", then Linux may not deal with
it very well. You'd want to run CHKDSK from Windows, before
moving NTFS over to Linux for some fun. The next time Windows
starts, it may conclude the journal is out of date, and just
toss it. In which case, it can't do any repairs to the file
system, using journal data.

Ah, I see they've been screwing around with that too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ntfs-3g

"NTFS-3G supports partial NTFS journaling, so if an unexpected
computer failure leaves the file system in an inconsistent
state, the volume can be repaired."

Whatever "partial" means...

Paul
 
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C

charlie

I can save you some of the suspense. Linux does not honor the permissions
on the NTFS file system. That's why you can access any file in there and
screw around with it, via Linux. And, I haven't a clue what permissions
are assigned to a file, if you write out a fresh file to an NTFS
partition from Linux. (If I really cared about that aspect,
I'd fix it later from the Windows side. That need has never arisen.)

They may fix that some day. But right now, it's pretty convenient
the way it works at present.

http://b.andre.pagesperso-orange.fr/advanced-ntfs-3g.html

The Linux driver, doesn't necessarily work with all aspects of
the file system. For example, it may not handle journaling properly.
So if your file system is "dirty", then Linux may not deal with
it very well. You'd want to run CHKDSK from Windows, before
moving NTFS over to Linux for some fun. The next time Windows
starts, it may conclude the journal is out of date, and just
toss it. In which case, it can't do any repairs to the file
system, using journal data.

Ah, I see they've been screwing around with that too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ntfs-3g

"NTFS-3G supports partial NTFS journaling, so if an unexpected
computer failure leaves the file system in an inconsistent
state, the volume can be repaired."

Whatever "partial" means...

Paul
At this point, all I know is that the files were not rewritten.
The HD has some sort of minimal linux based system running on it, and it
controls user accounts, access, etc.
The Linux tablet had full access to "root", none of the windows users do.
The HD interface is a Lan Ethernet cable.

There probably is an esoteric way to deal with the problems within
windows, perhaps via one of the various utilities or tool kits.
 
W

...winston

"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message
I have an extra two cents in my pocket, so:

My similar choice was to create a new unused account on all machines
with the name EmmyLou and the password Harris_301. The name I really
used is not anyone's actual username and likely won't ever be, even by
accident.

She is a standard user, *not* an administrator user.

Maybe both of those choices aren't necessary, but merely a function of
some degree of paranoia or some sense (however misguided) of how things
should be done :)
Similar approach for the common account on both machines (female standard user). A Standard user is sufficient.
I've read others state that disabling ipv6 on Win7 may help when XP machines are on the network, but I've never had to do that.
Additionally, replacing an older router (with a more current) alleviating (not eliminating) some network concerns.
For me, with common usernames, workgroup, sharing and assigning the same ip address to each pc's respective mac address has always
worked. There are few occasions where the remote pc name (\\Computer) shows up under the Windows Explorer 'Network' folder and a
slight delay prior to the shared folders names appearing but nothing that has presented a problem once everything handshakes.


....w
 
C

Char Jackson

"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message


I have an extra two cents in my pocket, so:

My similar choice was to create a new unused account on all machines
with the name EmmyLou and the password Harris_301. The name I really
used is not anyone's actual username and likely won't ever be, even by
accident.

She is a standard user, *not* an administrator user.

Maybe both of those choices aren't necessary, but merely a function of
some degree of paranoia or some sense (however misguided) of how things
should be done :)

Similar approach for the common account on both machines (female standard user). A Standard user is sufficient.
I've read others state that disabling ipv6 on Win7 may help when XP machines are on the network, but I've never had to do that.
Additionally, replacing an older router (with a more current) alleviating (not eliminating) some network concerns.
For me, with common usernames, workgroup, sharing and assigning the same ip address to each pc's respective mac address has always
worked. There are few occasions where the remote pc name (\\Computer) shows up under the Windows Explorer 'Network' folder and a
slight delay prior to the shared folders names appearing but nothing that has presented a problem once everything handshakes.
If I may cherry-pick and nit-pick a bit... I have no problems, or no
opinions really, on the above, except for the following line:
Additionally, replacing an older router (with a more current) alleviating (not eliminating) some network concerns.
As far as the LAN is concerned, the router is just a switch, a Layer 2
device, so it seems exceedingly unlikely that it will make or break
networking. I'd be quite curious to know which network concerns might
be alleviated by upgrading an otherwise working router.
 
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W

...winston

"Char Jackson" wrote in message As far as the LAN is concerned, the router is just a switch, a Layer 2
device, so it seems exceedingly unlikely that it will make or break
networking. I'd be quite curious to know which network concerns might
be alleviated by upgrading an otherwise working router.
Correct, the router is a just a switch.
I referenced "I've read others state" replacing the router resolved a
networking issue... not experiencing it myself. I've also read a few
comments on private listservs that replacing vintage routers have
improved initial wifi connectivity for a Win8 RTM pc and
subsequent intermittent networking difficulties between remote XP
and Win7 units and other devices (Apple TV, Wii )when all other
methods (including those discussed in this forum) were exhausted.
 

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