What are the news groups for Windows 8?

[Scott]

You left out "Compare and contrast"
True.

That's a bizarre enough conclusion...


And in this NG, we disagreed with you, sometimes in short points and
fairly categorical terms. Where's the problem?

The problem is that people just disagreed without actually putting up
any arguments to support their position then when I challenged this
took exception !!!

Apart from Bill, as far as I can see, no-one has stated why Windows 8
is better than Windows 7 on a laptop computer without touchscreen.

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

[Windows 8]
No-one has listed any actual benefit to the computer.

Some information here...

Thanks for this.

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/software/376540/windows-8-for-desktops-an
d-laptops

"First, the styling of windows is flatter than before, to complement
the look of Metro. We feared it might be an unnecessary step

(Presumably there is provided a way to select the look [theme?] as
before anyway, though I'd expect it as usual only to provide one step
[version] back.)

backwards, but it isn’t particularly noticeable: everything can be
dragged and resized as before, and the combination of the Windows key
and cursor keys still snaps windows to the edges of the display.

"Explorer windows now have the ribbon interface, but it can be hidden
away to be opened on demand with a click of one of the menu tabs –
some of which appear only when relevant file types, such as images,
are selected. SkyDrive is integrated directly into the file tree, so
placing your documents in the cloud to share with other devices is a
breeze.

"You might think that the file copy and Task Manager dialogs are
trivial, but it’s amazing how quickly you come to rely on their new
designs. Copying a file now brings up a line graph of the transfer
speed that’s updated every second, along with a generally accurate
estimate of the duration. If you copy a second file, it’s neatly
stacked in the same window.

"Task Manager now provides all sorts of detail, from the CPU, memory,
disk and network usage of every running process, to live graphs of
overall system resource usage and histories of which programs have
been running. It’s graphical, well designed and now a tool that even
non-experts may find useful."

The above all (with the exception of perhaps cloud being _too_
transparent, but that could be just my prejudices) sound like general
improvements; not things that would justify me moving from 7 if I had it
to 8, on two grounds (cost, and the fact that there are always things
that change in unexpected ways, and things break); however, they sound
like on the whole improvements, that wouldn't stop me, say, moving from
XP to 8 rather than XP to 7. The improved copy graphs and task manager
functionality, in particular, sound nice (though as I imply, tweaks
rather than fundamental). And yes, I _know_ there are third party things
(well, Process Explorer, Lasso, etc. for Task Manager - not sure about
the copy graphs) that do what those do, but nice to have them finally
built into the OS.

I think if they'd made (and could still for new machines after SP1,
though I suspect they won't) first-time-use prompt the user to choose
which interface (TIFKAM or desktop) they wanted as the _default_, much
as some netbooks/laptops prompt the user to set partition sizes, and
(maybe only in some regions?) it prompts you to choose default browser,
they'd have got round a lot of the hate.

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <[email protected]>, BillW50 <[email protected]>
writes:

[Can we snip a bit more please?]

Wow! Are you way off! For starters I am *not* currently using a phone
or a touchscreen, but on a PC like you are. And Windows 8 works very
well on a PC. I know, that is all I have used it on so far.

No actual benefits to a computer? My gawd! Why in the world would you
say something like that? It has been pointed out over and over again to
you. How many times do you need to hear it before it sinks in?

- Hybrid Boot (Windows boots much faster)

Sounds good.

- New Lock Screen With A Clock And Notifications

Nice but not huge.

- New Windows Explorer (pause file transfers, more detailed statistics,
file history, etc.)

Nice but not huge.

- Task Manager (far better than previous versions)
Nbnh.

- New Safety and Security (far better than previous versions)

Every new version claims that. Although I'm not denying it, I'd like to
know some details of why (I'm assuming you aren't just taking their word
for it).

- Native Support For USB 3.0 Devices

Useful (I didn't know it needed support, but if it does, nice to have it
as part of the OS).

- Secure Boot (bye-bye rootkits)

Hmm. Again, I'd like to know how. (Also, I _have_ read that they've
dropped the F8, partly by claiming boot is so fast there's no time - but
have already heard stories of boot looping from which you can't escape.
Apparently if _it_ decides you're having problems, it pops up the [new,
not text-based] boot menu, but some of us dislike the loss of control
that represents.)

- New Performance Improvements
- And many more

Now how in the world could you say there are no benefits for PC users?

The majority of the above sound like things that I _would_ like: not
enough to justify a switch from 7 to 8, but enough that I might consider
8 rather than 7 next time I get a new PC. (By which time it will be moot
anyway: 7 PCs will have disappeared. They're going very fast now!)

And you think Windows 7 is still and will be supported into the
foreseeable future? Sure, but the word supported is such a vague term.
And Microsoft SDK will in the future only support Metro Apps. That
doesn't sound too exciting to me for Windows 7. So maybe Windows 7 will
be supported in one sense of the word, but it also sounds like it will
be soon obsolete as well.

Sadly, you're right: the turnover of OS support (in the broadest
interpretation, including new software and hardware-support) is
inexorable (and faster than all of us but the rich and young would
like). There's nothing we can do about it.

(On the other hand, I'm still finding everything _I_ want in XP - or, at
least, the things I'm not finding [such as a reasonably-priced
slide-and-negative scanner that can do 126 format slides and negatives]
are not available for 7 [or 8] either.)

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Spain. Judges here have ruled that if it is for personal use and you
don't try to sell it, it's legal. Needless to say the
music/video/software folks aren't very happy about it but Spanish
residents are delighted.

Interesting! So the person who _sold_ it to you is guilty, but you're
not. (So I expect _support_ is nonexistent from such suppliers.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The reason for the oil shortage: nobody remembered to check the oil levels. Our
oil is located in the North Sea but our dip-sticks are located in Westminster.
(or Texas and Washington etc. - adjust as necessary!)

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Downloading from Pirate Bay or a similar site is not buying. If you

I see. (The ISP via whom you do it is presumably also exempt.)

download from a torrent site, burn a DVD and then try and sell the DVD,
you're breaking the law. Software isn't downloaded much and those who
do download it know they will get no support for cracked software.
Music and videos need no support which is the lion's share of what's
downloaded. Why do you think the music industry is pushing vinyl as

I'm not aware they are here (UK); I've certainly not seen any (new) on
sale for years, apart from 12" disco versions of some singles (where the
reason is to facilitate "rapping and scratching" and the like, not
quality), and those rarely and only in very big shops.

"better quality"? You can't download vinyl. Now what Spain does do is
charge a fee for every DVD/CD/Burner that you buy that is given to the
music/video/software folks which, to me, is a sensible way to do it
although many object that they don't buy a DVD/CD/Burner to download
pirated products but to back up their own stuff.

Hmm. We had suggestions of blank tape levies, and on dual-cassette decks
(especially when Amstrad were very bald about it in their marketing),
but I don't think it ever got anywhere. (With the possible exception of
audio-only CD burners, sold as hifi components rather than computer
parts, and which would only use CD-R blanks of certain types; but AFAIK
those never sold in large numbers.) I think another objection - as well
as from the people who were saying they were buying tapes and CDs to
record their own performances (or software) - was debate about how any
such levy would be shared out. How do they decide on that in Spain?

 

[XS11E]

NOTE: There IS a Windows 8 newsgroup, it's alt.comp.os.windows-8 and
this might be better moved there?

 

[XS11E]

This is an incredibly long and off topic discussion, maybe it should be
moved to alt.comp.os.windows-8?

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

NOTE: There IS a Windows 8 newsgroup, it's alt.comp.os.windows-8 and
this might be better moved there?

No, I didn't write that. Is Xnews doing a WLM15?

 

[XS11E]

No, I didn't write that. Is Xnews doing a WLM15?

I wrote it, I snipped your message. Sorry for the confusion, see you
all in alt.comp.os.windows-8

 

[Bob I]

On 12/2/2012 3:49 AM, Scott wrote:

Apart from Bill, as far as I can see, no-one has stated why Windows 8
is better than Windows 7 on a laptop computer without touchscreen.

Because that's the way it was delivered.

 

[Scott]

On 12/2/2012 3:49 AM, Scott wrote:




Because that's the way it was delivered.

I understand that new laptops may be delivered with Windows 8
pre-installed but my posting was about the benefits (if any) of
upgrading existing desktops from Windows 7 to Windows 8.

 

[Paul]

- Secure Boot (bye-bye rootkits)

Hmm. Again, I'd like to know how. (Also, I _have_ read that they've
dropped the F8, partly by claiming boot is so fast there's no time - but
have already heard stories of boot looping from which you can't escape.
Apparently if _it_ decides you're having problems, it pops up the [new,
not text-based] boot menu, but some of us dislike the loss of control
that represents.)

Actually, this isn't a good thing, since there is a plan afoot
to use the feature, to prevent users from booting other OSes.
Secure, indeed...

Anything involving TPM, is always a double-edged sword.
Yes, it might prevent some hypothetical attack (actually,
it can't). But, a more likely scenario, is limiting user
choice. Which is what the Linux community fears. And as
a non-community user, I don't like the idea either. It's
my freaking machine...

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-20111545-75/microsoft-addresses-windows-8-secure-boot-issue/

Paul

 

[BillW50]

- Secure Boot (bye-bye rootkits)

Hmm. Again, I'd like to know how. (Also, I _have_ read that they've
dropped the F8, partly by claiming boot is so fast there's no time -
but have already heard stories of boot looping from which you can't
escape. Apparently if _it_ decides you're having problems, it pops up
the [new, not text-based] boot menu, but some of us dislike the loss
of control that represents.)

Actually, this isn't a good thing, since there is a plan afoot
to use the feature, to prevent users from booting other OSes.
Secure, indeed...

Anything involving TPM, is always a double-edged sword.
Yes, it might prevent some hypothetical attack (actually,
it can't). But, a more likely scenario, is limiting user
choice. Which is what the Linux community fears. And as
a non-community user, I don't like the idea either. It's
my freaking machine...

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-20111545-75/microsoft-addresses-windows-8-secure-boot-issue/


Paul

I don't know what the big deal is? You can turn it off anyway. And I
personally find dualboots to be such a huge disadvantage anyway. And
just last week I was toying with the idea of dualbooting Windows 7 and
Windows 8 on my slate tablet. Luckily I didn't think about it very long.
I'll just buy another one and run the other OS on that one. ;-)

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

The problem is that people just disagreed without actually putting up
any arguments to support their position then when I challenged this
took exception !!!

Arguments like this?

"I went into my computer shop this afternoon. They told me W8 was an
appalling pile of junk that after 20 minutes of testing they removed
from the machine."

This was the entire content of

Message-ID: <[email protected]>

which was posted by ... wait for it ... you.

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

On Sat, 1 Dec 2012 08:40:11 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Surely Office doesn't come built-in with 8? Office has always been
something you pay (quite a lot) extra for, apart from in a few cases a
30 day trial version on some machines.

Windows TR (Windows 8 for ARM) comes with Office Home & Student free.
Yup, free. Of course, the license only allows non-commercial use so
you may or may not be able to use it in your particular circumstance,
but there it is.

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

In Ashton Crusher typed:

True for some versions of Windows 8. Although there is also Windows 8 RT
which only does full screen Apps.

Except for Office and all of the other built-in applications on the
Windows Desktop. But as far as apps you can install, that is the case.


--
Zaphod

Pan-Galactic Gargle Blaster: A cocktail based on Janx Spirit.
The effect of one is like having your brain smashed out
by a slice of lemon wrapped round a large gold brick.

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

On Mon, 3 Dec 2012 08:34:41 -0500, "Zaphod Beeblebrox"

On Sat, 1 Dec 2012 08:40:11 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Windows TR (Windows 8 for ARM) comes with Office Home & Student free.
Yup, free. Of course, the license only allows non-commercial use so
you may or may not be able to use it in your particular circumstance,
but there it is.

That would be Windows RT of course. Cursed fingers...

 

[Scott]

Arguments like this?

"I went into my computer shop this afternoon. They told me W8 was an
appalling pile of junk that after 20 minutes of testing they removed
from the machine."

This was the entire content of

Message-ID: <[email protected]>

which was posted by ... wait for it ... you.

Guilty as charged! It was a calculated attempt to stimulate debate by
saying something deliberately controversial, an approach I have used
many times on other newsgroups.

I can only assume this group has a higher level of sensitivity than
any other I have ever encountered, perhaps because it is US dominated
with a different culture (though I thought you guys with hugely
enthusiastic about freedom of opinion and freedom of speech).

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Guilty as charged! It was a calculated attempt to stimulate debate by
saying something deliberately controversial, an approach I have used
many times on other newsgroups.

I can only assume this group has a higher level of sensitivity than
any other I have ever encountered, perhaps because it is US dominated
with a different culture (though I thought you guys with hugely
enthusiastic about freedom of opinion and freedom of speech).

I still consider the attitude in the last paragraph, which you have
expressed before, as totally bizarre. I see it as a leap of gigantic
proportions to a more or less random unfounded conclusion.

As I hinted before, you should hang around a bit longer in this
newsgroup and try to acculturate. You might enjoy it better that way.

 

[Scott]

I still consider the attitude in the last paragraph, which you have
expressed before, as totally bizarre. I see it as a leap of gigantic
proportions to a more or less random unfounded conclusion.

Last time I postulated that it was out of respect for Microsoft Corp.
This time I am wondering if being argumentative is considered to be
vulgar. Am I right that the group is US dominated? As you have
probably worked out, I am more used to the 'netiquette' of uk. groups.

As I hinted before, you should hang around a bit longer in this
newsgroup and try to acculturate. You might enjoy it better that way.

I shall hang about for a bit longer but will probably 'lurk' for a bit
to see how things are done - and certainly be more measured in
anything I post.