J
J. P. Gilliver (John)
In message said:
J
J. P. Gilliver (John)
This 'group has "general" in its name, so isn't just for technicalGene E. Bloch said:
advice (-:. I thought the above question - if you are using a desktop
computer without a touch screen, what are the benefits of 8 - a
perfectly valid one; I agree it didn't need the "Persuade me!" part, but
that being there didn't bother me.
P
Paul
I find things somewhere in between. In addition, there's the internetJ. P. Gilliver (John) said:
connection cost: on dialup, the constant knowledge that all the time
you're on it's costing you money prevents a newbie (especially an older
person) getting over the hurdle of getting used enough to it to get real
benefit out of it, and so much of the web is now virtually unusable on
dialup anyway; and broadband, in the UK at least, requires financial
commitment that a person not into it is reluctant to give, viz. either
the connection charge up front or a commitment to stay with the ISP for
12 or 18 months (for something they don't know if they'll use anyway).
Which is sad. I'd like to introduce more people to the internet.[/QUOTE]
Teach them how to use Wifi, Netstumbler and war driving ? NukNukNuk.
I can see the two of you, sitting in a car a couple blocks from the
guys house, searching for free Wifi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_driving
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netstumbler
Find a place like Starbucks or McDonalds, and use their free Wifi.
Once you get past the advert here, there are some benchmarks
for Wifi performance at coffee shops. It's better than dialup,
but not by much. Flash videos are going to be buffering
all the time.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/tec...tarbucks-free-wi-fi-compare-to-other-hotspots
Paul
P
Paul
Care to give a link? I typed in "dad tr" and got quite a lot of suchJ. P. Gilliver (John) said:
videos, some quite long.[/QUOTE]
Paul
J
J. P. Gilliver (John)
(I'd agree with those saying 20 minutes isn't enough to evaluate a whole
new UI, let alone a new OS.)
in the default large chains; I doubt the underpaid staff have much
opinion one way or another. Specialist computer shops are, sadly, quite
rare (and always small) here.
to learn a new way of doing things, and you have x thousand employees,
that's a lot of money. (And two hours is far too little to really learn,
say, the new version of Office, let alone a new OS.) _If_ the new way
will eventually be more productive, it has some justification, but for a
lot of the time (users and activities) the differences are sufficiently
marginal that the payback period on the learning session can be months,
years, or never. (We upgraded from Office 2003 to 2010 a few months ago,
and I still use the old keyboard shortcuts - which, fortunately, the new
one _mostly_ supports, though with a pop-up window reminding me I'm an
old fogey, _each time_ - for a lot of things, since I can do them almost
in my sleep. I _am_ tying to learn the new ones, but if I'm in a hurry -
which I should be, for work - and I intuitively know the old way, I'll
use it.)--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
.... much to the surprise of everyone else in the galaxy, who had not realised
that the best way not to be unhappy is not to have a word for it. (Link
episode)
new UI, let alone a new OS.)
Some retail people, perhaps. Here, 8 is appearing on most new machines
in the default large chains; I doubt the underpaid staff have much
opinion one way or another. Specialist computer shops are, sadly, quite
rare (and always small) here.
In the corporate world, there is some justification: if it takes 2 hours
to learn a new way of doing things, and you have x thousand employees,
that's a lot of money. (And two hours is far too little to really learn,
say, the new version of Office, let alone a new OS.) _If_ the new way
will eventually be more productive, it has some justification, but for a
lot of the time (users and activities) the differences are sufficiently
marginal that the payback period on the learning session can be months,
years, or never. (We upgraded from Office 2003 to 2010 a few months ago,
and I still use the old keyboard shortcuts - which, fortunately, the new
one _mostly_ supports, though with a pop-up window reminding me I'm an
old fogey, _each time_ - for a lot of things, since I can do them almost
in my sleep. I _am_ tying to learn the new ones, but if I'm in a hurry -
which I should be, for work - and I intuitively know the old way, I'll
use it.)--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
.... much to the surprise of everyone else in the galaxy, who had not realised
that the best way not to be unhappy is not to have a word for it. (Link
episode)
J
J. P. Gilliver (John)
I find things somewhere in between. In addition, there's the internet[QUOTE="Paul said:
connection cost: on dialup, the constant knowledge that all the time []
unusable on dialup anyway; and broadband, in the UK at least,
requires financial commitment that a person not into it is reluctant []
Which is sad. I'd like to introduce more people to the internet.[/QUOTE]
Teach them how to use Wifi, Netstumbler and war driving ? NukNukNuk.
I can see the two of you, sitting in a car a couple blocks from the
guys house, searching for free Wifi
[/QUOTE][]
Ha! The person I have in mind … he's quite intelligent: for example,
he's a retired printer, builds model boats, and - using the (Windows
98!) desktop system I gave him years ago, is gradually in the process of
converting his LP collection to CDs, and has quite a lot of his family
tree in Brother's Keeper, and edits some of his holiday pictures. So, he
can use a computer; I do have to show him several times sometimes. He
uses dialup, for email only. He's somewhat elderly, so doesn't go out
much; wardriving would not be on, nor going to such as Macs! I think
he'd get a lot out of the web - for example, model boat clubs, genealogy
resources, and so on. But it needs to be at his own pace, in his own
home. Usually, after I've visited him, he calls a halt after a few
hours, which I understand; I'd like to visit him for shorter times and
more often, but we're too far apart for that.
I think so many of us, who are _so_ familiar with computers and the
internet, do tend to forget those who aren't, especially in isolated
situations.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
.... much to the surprise of everyone else in the galaxy, who had not realised
that the best way not to be unhappy is not to have a word for it. (Link
episode)
S
Scott
Okay, thanks very much. I concede you were enthusiastic but with
respect these are cosmetic benefits. I see weather as more of an
application than a core function of the operating system. It seems to
me that Windows 8 is more suited to phones and touchscreens. No-one
has listed any actual benefit to the computer. Windows 7 remains
supported (and I assume will continue for a long time due to its use
at workplaces) so I shall continue with it.
S
Scott
Okay, thanks. 'Persuade me' seems to have caused a lot of confusion.
As I said in my other post, the phrase was used in the context that
people appeared to have rubbished the opposing view so I wanted to
challenge them
I should have said something like:
"Some people say that Windows 8 is not suited to desktop computers
without touchscreen capability. Do you agree with this viewpoint?
Discuss, citing evidence to support your conclusions."
I am a newbie to this group. I am surprised it is very defensive. Is
is because it is US dominated and perhaps considered unpatriotic to
criticise Microsoft?
In most newsgroups I belong to people just say what they like in short
points and in fairly categorical terms and leave others to agree or
disagree. After all, a newsgoup is primarily for discussion, going
back to its origins when Usenet was a forum for discussion amongst
academics (who no doubt disagreed about everything).
A
Andy Burns
Not with Win8, but it does with WinRT, though you might not be licensedJ. P. Gilliver (John) said:
to use it because it's home & student edition.
M
Mike Barnes
Some information here...Scott said:
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/software/376540/windows-8-for-desktops-and-laptops
"First, the styling of windows is flatter than before, to complement
the look of Metro. We feared it might be an unnecessary step
backwards, but it isn’t particularly noticeable: everything can be
dragged and resized as before, and the combination of the Windows key
and cursor keys still snaps windows to the edges of the display.
"Explorer windows now have the ribbon interface, but it can be hidden
away to be opened on demand with a click of one of the menu tabs –
some of which appear only when relevant file types, such as images,
are selected. SkyDrive is integrated directly into the file tree, so
placing your documents in the cloud to share with other devices is a
breeze.
"You might think that the file copy and Task Manager dialogs are
trivial, but it’s amazing how quickly you come to rely on their new
designs. Copying a file now brings up a line graph of the transfer
speed that’s updated every second, along with a generally accurate
estimate of the duration. If you copy a second file, it’s neatly
stacked in the same window.
"Task Manager now provides all sorts of detail, from the CPU, memory,
disk and network usage of every running process, to live graphs of
overall system resource usage and histories of which programs have
been running. It’s graphical, well designed and now a tool that even
non-experts may find useful."
B
BillW50
B
BillW50
Actually the Starter includes the full blown Office. You just need to
purchase a key to unlock it. And for some users, the Starter does
everything they need, so why bother?
B
BillW50
Wow! Are you way off! For starters I am *not* currently using a phone or
a touchscreen, but on a PC like you are. And Windows 8 works very well
on a PC. I know, that is all I have used it on so far.
No actual benefits to a computer? My gawd! Why in the world would you
say something like that? It has been pointed out over and over again to
you. How many times do you need to hear it before it sinks in?
- Hybrid Boot (Windows boots much faster)
- New Lock Screen With A Clock And Notifications
- New Windows Explorer (pause file transfers, more detailed statistics,
file history, etc.)
- Task Manager (far better than previous versions)
- New Safety and Security (far better than previous versions)
- Native Support For USB 3.0 Devices
- Secure Boot (bye-bye rootkits)
- New Performance Improvements
- And many more
Now how in the world could you say there are no benefits for PC users?
And you think Windows 7 is still and will be supported into the
foreseeable future? Sure, but the word supported is such a vague term.
And Microsoft SDK will in the future only support Metro Apps. That
doesn't sound too exciting to me for Windows 7. So maybe Windows 7 will
be supported in one sense of the word, but it also sounds like it will
be soon obsolete as well.
C
Char Jackson
I had to look up TIFKAM.
G
Gene E. Bloch
Paul[/QUOTE]
It's clear that Dad is no dummy. Anyway, his peregrinations around the
screen manage to remind me a bit of mine (except I don't seem to have a
fish).
BTW, I bought a book - but I haven't used it yet. It'll happen soon
enough
G
Gene E. Bloch
You left out "Compare and contrast"
That's a bizarre enough conclusion...
And in this NG, we disagreed with you, sometimes in short points and
fairly categorical terms. Where's the problem?
B
BillW50
I actually like how both Scott and John think. And I think it is refreshing.You left out "Compare and contrast"
That's a bizarre enough conclusion...
And in this NG, we disagreed with you, sometimes in short points and
fairly categorical terms. Where's the problem?
G
Gene E. Bloch
I suspect Scott will get used to us and start to enjoy this NG. In that
context, you might be helpful to him.
If by John you mean J. P. Gilliver, he's already used to us
J
J. P. Gilliver (John)
Yes, I'd sort of picked up on that. Maybe a bit like the Works suite,Alias said:
which although not part of the basic Windows builds (I'm going back to
'9x here, possibly even 3.x, I can't remember), was sometimes included
by PC makers - and/or was pretty cheap to buy, especially the version
before the latest. (It was actually a good and efficient suite, much
less resource-hungry than full Office - until MS replaced its
word-processor with the full Word. I think it died altogether not too
long after that.)
Interesting; (a) just for Microsoft products, or others too? (b) all the
time, or only while online?
What sort of differences? (Short: I'm not that bothered myself, but some
might be interested.)
I don't have Outlook, even though I have Office; your "even" suggests
you consider it essential, but I don't miss it. (And yes, I know what it
does - I have it at work, where I _do_ use it.) [Sorry, this sounds
aggressive, and wasn't meant to.]
Which country is that (just curious)?
J
J. P. Gilliver (John)
I got it from Deb Shinder, who produces a quite good Windows newsletter.Char Jackson said:I had to look up TIFKAM.
(IMO.)