Transposing to a new bigger partition


B

bad sector

Interesting solution. I don't think it was really necessary to make the
partition the exact same size, but I can see why you did it. - And only
with Linux. Wonderful OS, I put Mint on an old laptop for travelling,
when all I need is e-mail/web access and storage for pictures 'n stuff.

Have good day,
Wolf K.
My familiarity with windows is pretty rudimentary but I think you can
only expand so the new partition has to be same size or bigger (correct
me if I'm wrong). Reiserfs can be shrunk or expanded just like that,
provided the partition isn't maxed out.
 
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B

bad sector

I've been given someone's 'work' laptop to save. The cure is a new (and
bigger) hard drive. The present setup is barely reliable enough to make
some isos of installed partitions (already done) and w7 was/is on
primary #1. It's still bootable.

I want to move it to a larger and this time #2 primary partition on a
new disk in the same machine. Can I do this with basic tools like dd or
am i looking at a fresh install? No major issue with w7, but in that
case I'd like to "transpose" all the look & feel as well as installed
applications.

thanks
 
S

Steve Hayes

I want to move it to a larger and this time #2 primary partition on a
new disk in the same machine. Can I do this with basic tools like dd or
am i looking at a fresh install? No major issue with w7, but in that
case I'd like to "transpose" all the look & feel as well as installed
applications.
I suggest you use Acronis or some similar disk image program.

My desktop computer had a 30gig C: drive and a 40 gig secondary drive with
four partitions.

When the second drive died I replaced it with a 500 gig drive, and restored
the partitions from Acronis. All worked, including programs installed in some
of the partitions.

Then the power supply started dying, and I bought a new computer, sans OS,
with 2 500 gig drives. Restored both from Acronis, and it started up, same
look and feel as before (Windows XP). I put in a couple of the CDs that came
with it to tweak the drivers for sound and graphics on the new motherboard,
then backed it up again.

I've been using it to back up my Windows 7 laptop as well, so I'm sure it'll
work with that too.
 
R

Rob

I've been given someone's 'work' laptop to save. The cure is a new (and bigger) hard drive. The present setup is barely reliable enough to make some isos of installed partitions (already done) and w7 was/is on primary #1. It's still bootable.

I want to move it to a larger and this time #2 primary partition on a new disk in the same machine. Can I do this with basic tools like dd or am i looking at a fresh install? No major issue with w7, but in that case I'd like to "transpose" all the look & feel as well as installed applications.

thanks
What did you use to make the isos? If it was an imaging program
and these are partition images which you can restore to a new drive
and boot from them OK, all you need to do is adjust the partition
sizes on the new drive. The imaging program you used can probably
do that, Win7 itself may be able to do it, or you may need a
partition resizer (plenty of free ones out there,eg Easus Partition
Manager.) You'll need to mark the partition as active.
If the isos are just copies of files/folders burnt using nero or
similar, you can't really use them in the way you are hoping.

Several HD manufacturers offer a free utility (usually you make a
boot CD) to enable you to copy partitions from an old drive to a
new one. This is usually a somewhat limited version of Acronis True
Image and is perfect for the job. WD offer this:

http://support.wdc.com/product/downloaddetail.asp?swid=119&wdc_lang=en

HTH,
 
P

Paul

bad said:
I've been given someone's 'work' laptop to save. The cure is a new (and
bigger) hard drive. The present setup is barely reliable enough to make
some isos of installed partitions (already done) and w7 was/is on
primary #1. It's still bootable.

I want to move it to a larger and this time #2 primary partition on a
new disk in the same machine. Can I do this with basic tools like dd or
am i looking at a fresh install? No major issue with w7, but in that
case I'd like to "transpose" all the look & feel as well as installed
applications.

thanks
If the internal laptop drive is healthy enough, to survive the transfer,
you can install the new 2.5" drive in a 2.5" USB enclosure, and just
"dd" the data over as you see fit. ("dd" implies to me, you're a Linux user)

Don't write to the C: partition from Linux, unless you want a rude surprise.
Don't "clean up a few files" while you can see C: in your favorite Linux.
The VSScache area is sensitive, and Linux can "see" the files in there,
when Windows gives access denied and one Windows utility won't even
display file information for them. They're not real files. I'm not yet
fully comfortable messing with Win7 C:, without damaging it. I've had an
unbootable Win7 twice now, while fooling around like that.

"dd" method, on the other hand, is safe, because it's read only, and doesn't
require you to mount anything in Linux. There is no state change to the source,
if using "dd". The only danger, is if you have one of those LiveCDs that
leaves "footprints" on the file systems it sees (I think something WUBI
related, may have done that). I've had at least one older LiveCD, where during
the boot process, the LiveCD "scans" the file systems it finds, for a
copy of the boot CD! And I think I've found some things written in C: on
one occasion. So if you look at the 500+ distros of Linux, I'm sure
you can find an unhygienic practice if you look for it.

Knoppix 5.3.1 had a good approach (the DVD version). It used to mount
partitions read-only by default, and that gave me a very warm feeling.
That's "good defensive computing", in terms of how to handle someone
else's file system. You could easily change over to read/write with
a click, so you weren't prevented from doing things. It just implied
the designer (Klaus) had a head on his shoulders. The "read/write
clowns" could learn something from that.

*******

Disk Management (type diskmgmt.msc in the start box) in Windows 7, has
shrink and extend partition options. If C: happened to be the last
partition on the volume, your "dd" operation would look like this. My
laptop was originally set up this way, so this would work for my Acer.
Partitions are not drawn to scale.

+---+--------------------+-----------------+--------+
|MBR|15GB_hidden_recovery| SYSTEM_RESERVED | C: |
+---+--------------------+-----------------+--------+

dd to new disk. Remove old disk, install new disk. Boot.
Now, there is space down at the end. The disk signature and volumeid on each
partition, are the same as before.

+---+--------------------+-----------------+--------+ - - - - - - - - +
|MBR|15GB_hidden_recovery| SYSTEM_RESERVED | C: | Unallocated |
+---+--------------------+-----------------+--------+ - - - - - - - - +

Now use Disk Management "Extend" on partition C:. The Windows built-in
Extend, extends to the right. You can't "pull on" the left hand edge
of C: and pull it to the left, to take advantage of a "hole". But
in my contrived example, the built-in Extend can do it. This is the result.

+---+--------------------+-----------------+--------------------------+
|MBR|15GB_hidden_recovery| SYSTEM_RESERVED | C: |
+---+--------------------+-----------------+--------------------------+

Many free partition utilities or even the Acronis TIH available for
download for free on Seagate.com and westerndigital.com, also allow
many copy options. The Seagate web page also includes a manual, so
you can see all the Acronis options.

If the drive is SATA, you also have the option of easily slaving the
2.5" drive to your desktop. If the drive is IDE, you'll need a
44 pin (2mm) to 40 pin (0.1") connector adapter, so you can't immediately
connect an older 2.5" IDE to your desktop without buying something.

You've got plenty of options. And with a little luck, the new drive
will boot (/sarcasm).

The Windows recovery console disc (the one you burn from the laptop,
when you first get it), has a startup repair option. Of the two
failures to boot I've had, my record is 50% success with that.
So if you transferred to the new disk, and it wouldn't boot,
your options would be to do the transfer again, or to try to
repair it with that CD. A real installer DVD, will also boot
to this menu and offer the same options. And you can even download
a real installer DVD off the 'net, if you wanted a way to get here.

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1361950287393&id=abcbf55ae69a97945b56df68374ccde2

Paul
 
B

bad sector

If the internal laptop drive is healthy enough, to survive the transfer,
you can install the new 2.5" drive in a 2.5" USB enclosure, and just
"dd" the data over as you see fit. ("dd" implies to me, you're a Linux
user)

Don't write to the C: partition from Linux, unless you want a rude
surprise.
Don't "clean up a few files" while you can see C: in your favorite Linux.
The VSScache area is sensitive, and Linux can "see" the files in there,
when Windows gives access denied and one Windows utility won't even
display file information for them. They're not real files. I'm not yet
fully comfortable messing with Win7 C:, without damaging it. I've had an
unbootable Win7 twice now, while fooling around like that.

"dd" method, on the other hand, is safe, because it's read only, and
doesn't
require you to mount anything in Linux. There is no state change to the
source,
if using "dd". The only danger, is if you have one of those LiveCDs that
I noticed that, piss poor housekeeping most of the time. I just boot an
install disk and get to a rescue (command) interface most of the time.

Mirroring the installation is easy but it's going to end up on a bigger
partition. Can w7 subsequently expand itself to take up all of the new
partition?

BTW i downloaded that wd utilty twice and it don't work, crashes on
account of some fox.dll on this 64 bit i7 system
leaves "footprints" on the file systems it sees (I think something WUBI
related, may have done that). I've had at least one older LiveCD, where
during
the boot process, the LiveCD "scans" the file systems it finds, for a
copy of the boot CD! And I think I've found some things written in C: on
one occasion. So if you look at the 500+ distros of Linux, I'm sure
you can find an unhygienic practice if you look for it.

Knoppix 5.3.1 had a good approach (the DVD version). It used to mount
partitions read-only by default, and that gave me a very warm feeling.
That's "good defensive computing", in terms of how to handle someone
else's file system. You could easily change over to read/write with
a click, so you weren't prevented from doing things. It just implied
the designer (Klaus) had a head on his shoulders. The "read/write
clowns" could learn something from that.
Agreed! I know ms does a lot of hankypanky & I have no interest in
messig with their bloody cloak & daggers. What they should offer is a
CD/DVD booted utility that can really FIX any installation and which in
cases such as this I could direct "take this w7 partition on this disk
and move it to that disk into that already existing bigger partition so
it'll be bootable when it becomes the principle or only disk plugged in
and I loose grub to boot it".

We talked about similar stuff a while back, this time I won't mess up
your nice ascii work :)

Gonna try that dd for now, worst case I'll have to reinstall & then try
to migrate the setup. I'll play it safe by mirroring to a same size
partition with nothing higher (for now) and then let w7 expand itself if
it boots by increasing the size of the partition though I by far prefer
doing my own surgically precise partitioning.

...later
 
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W

Wolf K

Mirroring the installation is easy but it's going to end up on a bigger
partition. Can w7 subsequently expand itself to take up all of the new
partition?
Yes, here's one website that tells you how:
http://blog.easeus.com/Partition-Ma...ize-in-Windows-7-without-Losing-Data-328.html

But I personally wouldn't do it. It's better IMO to use the remaining
space for one or more data partitions. I would also strongly advise the
owner of the laptop to buy an external drive at least as large as the
new internal one, and back up his data regularly. If I sound paranoid
about data loss, well, I have my reasons. ;-) and :-(

Wolf K.
 
W

Wolf K

While booting the w7 on the condemned disk for a last time it occured to
me that everything on it was already backed up so I could risk and let
windows kill one of the other partitions on top of itself and expand
into the new space.

I got to over 40gb this way and THEN booted a linux installer into
command mode, looked at the new partition table with fdisk, and made the
image with dd taking note of the EXACT new size in sectors. Next I
created a #2 partition on the new disk of exactly that number of sectors
and dd'd the image to it, invoked grub and booted directly

#grub
grub > rootnoverify (hd0,1)
grub > hide (hd0,0)
grub > unhide (hd0,1)
grub > make active
grub > chainloader +1
grub > boot

and voila, w7 is booted in a new and bigger home on a different
partition on a new disk...

Thank you all for the suggestions
Interesting solution. I don't think it was really necessary to make the
partition the exact same size, but I can see why you did it. - And only
with Linux. Wonderful OS, I put Mint on an old laptop for travelling,
when all I need is e-mail/web access and storage for pictures 'n stuff.

Have good day,
Wolf K.
 
P

Paul

Wolf said:
Interesting solution. I don't think it was really necessary to make the
partition the exact same size, but I can see why you did it. - And only
with Linux. Wonderful OS, I put Mint on an old laptop for travelling,
when all I need is e-mail/web access and storage for pictures 'n stuff.

Have good day,
Wolf K.
The message sent by "bad sector" in this case, may have been dated
in the future, and filtered off by some of the servers. It's here if
anyone wants it.

http://al.howardknight.net/[email protected]>

Paul
 
W

Wolf K

My familiarity with windows is pretty rudimentary but I think you can
only expand so the new partition has to be same size or bigger (correct
me if I'm wrong). Reiserfs can be shrunk or expanded just like that,
provided the partition isn't maxed out.
There are many disk management tools for Windows, payware, shareware,
and freeware. Just google on "resize windows partitions". Several of the
tools are basically point'n'click. The one that comes with Windows has
some limitations, though.

Keep in mind that a "partition" is merely a collection of tracks and
sectors. The partition table identifies the tracks and sectors that
belong to a particular partition. The file system is merely a way of
cataloguing those tracks and sectors

In principle, a disk drives and OS can be mutually agnostic. All that's
needed is some hardware handshake and a protocol for exchanging data.
This is in fact implemented on the web, where many computers interchange
data with each other, utterly indifferent to each other's OSs. There is
IOW no technical reason that any storage device would have to be
OS-aware, any more than your system needs to be aware of the OS mine and
vice versa.

Does that mean that OSs should come on OS-agnostic storage devices, from
which you boot simply by plugging in and switching on? You could do
that, but it makes much more sense to store the OS on an internal ROM or
EPROM, from which you could boot in seconds. Er, I think it's been done:
remember the PET, the C-64, the VIc-320, the Amiga, the ....

Have a good day,
Wolf K
 
P

Paul

bad said:
My familiarity with windows is pretty rudimentary but I think you can
only expand so the new partition has to be same size or bigger (correct
me if I'm wrong). Reiserfs can be shrunk or expanded just like that,
provided the partition isn't maxed out.
Actually, someone the other day, tried to change the MBR partition table,
without telling the file system, and the file system insisted it
was still the same size as before :) I think both have to be
informed, for the change to take place. So just fiddling the
numbers in the MBR, isn't enough.

It's possible to make the C: partition, larger or smaller than
the original size.

When I wanted to shrink Windows 7 C:, the first thing I discovered,
is Disk Management would not shrink my C: partition by more than 50%.
The laptop drive had maybe a 300GB C: partition. I think I could
shrink that, using Disk Management, down to 150GB. (If you
can't get to the 50% mark, try defragmenting first.)

A little Googling turned up the discovery, that one of the
file system metadata files (name begins with a $), was
"blocking" further shrinkage below 50%. In the same article, the
poster mentioned using the trial version of Raxco PerfectDisk,
a defragmenter that knew how to move metadata files. By defragmenting
and moving the files "to the left", then returning to Disk
Management, I eventually got C: as low as 30GB in size.
When it was time to install SP1, I changed C: to 40GB for
safely. Why did I do it that way ? To show Microsoft,
if they were better programmers, they could have
provided such functionality themselves. I expect the
metadata is being moved by a Microsoft API anyway.

I don't really enjoy testing Partition Managers that much,
because it takes a lot of time. And all it takes, is
Googling and finding one horror story about some
product, to spoil my day... That's why I haven't been using
things like Easeus. While I have a copy of Partition Magic
(which is no longer for sale), I'm not letting it anywhere
near the Windows 7 laptop. It was creaky enough, running
on Win2K and WinXP.

Any Partition Manager can cause problems, if the disk structures
had defects to begin with. That's why you'll find the
Partition Manager doing some flavor of CHKDSK before
the "serious shoveling" begins.

Paul
 
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J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

In message <[email protected]>, bad sector
My familiarity with windows is pretty rudimentary but I think you can
only expand so the new partition has to be same size or bigger (correct
me if I'm wrong). Reiserfs can be shrunk or expanded just like that,
provided the partition isn't maxed out.
The provided tool (with Windows 7) can both increase and decrease, but
only where it doesn't involve moving certain files. From what I've read
on here, these files tend to be about half way "up" the C: partition, so
provided you don't want to shrink C: more than about 50% (and aren't
unlucky and have some of these type of files higher up), you're OK.

The one time so far I've dealt with a W7 machine, I found lots of
third-party tools that claimed to work with it, and - maybe I was lucky
- the one I tried was free, and easy to use. I think it was "MiniTool
Partition Wizard Home Edition 6.0". (Oh, yes, obviously it _did_ move
the awkward files no problem.)

[I was shrinking a C: which originally occupied all of the 500G disc, so
I could make a D: for data to occupy most of it.]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)[email protected]+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"How many noble trees have given their lives to become bibles? How many have
died to become korans? It's not their fault. It's not the fault of the trees."
- Jason Woodrue
 
B

bad sector

While booting the w7 on the condemned disk for a last time it occured to
me that everything on it was already backed up so I could risk and let
windows kill one of the other partitions on top of itself and expand
into the new space.

I got to over 40gb this way and THEN booted a linux installer into
command mode, looked at the new partition table with fdisk, and made the
image with dd taking note of the EXACT new size in sectors. Next I
created a #2 partition on the new disk of exactly that number of sectors
and dd'd the image to it, invoked grub and booted directly

#grub
grub > rootnoverify (hd0,1)
grub > hide (hd0,0)
grub > unhide (hd0,1)
grub > make active
grub > chainloader +1
grub > boot

and voila, w7 is booted in a new and bigger home on a different
partition on a new disk...

Thank you all for the suggestions
 
A

Anthony Buckland

I suggest you use Acronis or some similar disk image program.
I second that. The first time I was faced with a dead
hard drive, in that case on a desktop, and the replacement was of
necessity larger since nobody made the smaller one any
more, recreation of the primary partition on the new
drive with Acronis True Image went without a hitch.
A fresh install would be an unnecessary hassle, whereas
a restore would leave you with everything intact, no more
work to do.
 
B

BillW50

I second that. The first time I was faced with a dead
hard drive, in that case on a desktop, and the replacement was of
necessity larger since nobody made the smaller one any
more, recreation of the primary partition on the new
drive with Acronis True Image went without a hitch.
A fresh install would be an unnecessary hassle, whereas
a restore would leave you with everything intact, no more
work to do.
I have used many utilities for backups and cloning. And Acronis has a
serious flaw with restoring from some USB chipsets (and they know about
it and they just never fix it). Which is very disappointing when it has
been backing up to the same USB drive for many years. Thus when you need
it the most, it fails.

There are many other utilities which is just as good as Acronis or even
better for much less money. Some of them are even free. ;-) Acronis is
actually overly expensive for as little as it does.
 
P

Percival P. Cassidy

I second that. The first time I was faced with a dead
hard drive, in that case on a desktop, and the replacement was of
necessity larger since nobody made the smaller one any
more, recreation of the primary partition on the new
drive with Acronis True Image went without a hitch.
A fresh install would be an unnecessary hassle, whereas
a restore would leave you with everything intact, no more
work to do.
There is also Macrium Reflect. The Free version should do what you want,
but the paid version does even more.

http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.aspx

Perce
 
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G

Gene E. Bloch

On 11/27/11 12:29 pm, Anthony Buckland wrote:
There is also Macrium Reflect. The Free version should do what you want, but
the paid version does even more.

Perce
And it may be one of the good alternatives to Acronis that BillW50
spoke of in his reply.

Macrium (the paid version) is good enough for me, anyway...

The latest version has some user-interface peculiarities that make it
less friendly than the prior version, but I still think it's OK.
 

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