SP1

G

GreyCloud

You are not very smart, are you Zaphod? I have been running Windows
since '93 and I have never had a Windows virus yet. While I have
repaired other people computers that have been infected. It is funny how
the real misguided people (who believes they are the smart ones) don't
really understand computers whatsoever.


Is that so? Since you think you are so smart, please tell me why I need
security patches when I don't get viruses anyway? And what fixes do I
need that needs fixing? As everything seems to be running very smoothly
here.
http://www.networkworld.com/community/print/79156

According to the spy-conference brochure [PDF [8]], the Hacking Team
Cyber Intelligence solutions include remote control systems that offer
"total invisibility" and "total control over desktops and smartphones"
as well as "the widest selection of infection vectors" and "easy
installation on target devices." According to the company's brochure [1]
[PDF], different tools promise to "bypasses protection systems such as
antivirus, antispyware and personal firewalls." The Hacking Team [9]
website proudly proclaims a wide variety of extra creepy and invasive
surveillance tools for Big Brother:

Deploy a secret agent - Total control over your targets. Log everything
you need. Always. Anywhere they are.
Go stealth and untraceable - Invisible to the target. Evade computer
security.
Acquire relevant data - Interesting data never gets to the web, it stays
on the device.
Defeat encryption - Thousands of encrypted communications per day. Get
them in the clear.
 
B

BillW50

You are not very smart, are you Zaphod? I have been running Windows
since '93 and I have never had a Windows virus yet. While I have
repaired other people computers that have been infected. It is funny how
the real misguided people (who believes they are the smart ones) don't
really understand computers whatsoever.


Is that so? Since you think you are so smart, please tell me why I need
security patches when I don't get viruses anyway? And what fixes do I
need that needs fixing? As everything seems to be running very smoothly
here.
http://www.networkworld.com/community/print/79156

According to the spy-conference brochure [PDF [8]], the Hacking Team
Cyber Intelligence solutions include remote control systems that offer
"total invisibility" and "total control over desktops and smartphones"
as well as "the widest selection of infection vectors" and "easy
installation on target devices." According to the company's brochure [1]
[PDF], different tools promise to "bypasses protection systems such as
antivirus, antispyware and personal firewalls." The Hacking Team [9]
website proudly proclaims a wide variety of extra creepy and invasive
surveillance tools for Big Brother:

Deploy a secret agent - Total control over your targets. Log everything
you need. Always. Anywhere they are.
Go stealth and untraceable - Invisible to the target. Evade computer
security.
Acquire relevant data - Interesting data never gets to the web, it stays
on the device.
Defeat encryption - Thousands of encrypted communications per day. Get
them in the clear.
All probably very much true. But there are so many tools available that
there isn't anything ever written can be totally stealth. Something
somewhere will give it away. Things like:

1) Hard drive activity when there shouldn't be any.

2) Internet usage when there shouldn't be any.

3) CPU usage when the system should be idle.

4) Strange processes running that shouldn't be there.

5) Computer suddenly becomes unstable while it has worked stable for
many years.

And there are tons more things that will tip you off that something is
doing something it shouldn't. MS even has a utility that logs everything
your system is reading and writing too (I forgot the name of it).

Okay if you are really paranoid, there are lots of things you can do
that not even the world's best virus writer can't break into your
system. And security updates doesn't even show up on the radar. Some of
them include:

1) Windows Embedded - Running Windows from ROM insures the OS cannot be
changed. The best any malware can do is to infect the RAM and that is
all (and it can't do much of anything there). And once the computer is
shut down, all malware that ever did manage to infect the RAM would be
totally wiped out.

2) Another useful trick to foil malware is to run all Internet
communications through a sandbox. Thus anything that ever does get
through is forever stuck in the box. And you can always delete the box
anytime you want.

3) Windows SteadyState (free) also uses a sandbox like state and is
often used on public computers. This way no user (except administrator),
malware, or anything else can do any harm whatsoever.

There are lots of other tricks too, which blocks anything trying to
infect your system. There are only a number of ways to infect a
computer. And if you have all of the doors locked, they can't do a
single thing. And none of these methods depend on security updates either.
 
R

Roy Smith

140 important updates waiting and I could careless. ;-)
Oh so you *DO* care to some degree? Then why not apply the updates?
Unless you meant that you could *NOT* care less. That's one of my pet
peeves, how people leave out that one 3 letter word that changes the
whole meaning of the phrase. Another is hot water heater... if the
water's already hot, then why do you need to heat it?


--

Roy Smith
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit
Thunderbird 8.0
Sunday, November 20, 2011 6:13:51 PM
 
C

choro

Oh so you *DO* care to some degree? Then why not apply the updates?
Unless you meant that you could *NOT* care less. That's one of my pet
peeves, how people leave out that one 3 letter word that changes the
whole meaning of the phrase. Another is hot water heater... if the
water's already hot, then why do you need to heat it?
To make it even hotter!

I've heard that there are some hot water heaters which refuse to heat up
cold water! ;-)
-- choro

PS. But honestly, there are fridges that won't work at ambient
temperatures of 8 degrees Celsius or below. And no, I haven't made this
up. I think the culprit was a Bosch design. I guess they never thought
that people might want to use their refrigerators at such low
temperatures but apparently some people installed some fridges in caves.
No, not caves people live in but unheated caves used for storage!
 
G

GreyCloud

On 9/2/2011 7:46 AM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
In Dave "Crash" Dummy wrote:
Installing SP 1 as an update is recommended, but it was released
months ago. I don't know why you are only now receiving it, unless
you have a new Win7 installation.

Who recommends it?

Pretty much everyone other than you and a few other misguided
individuals who think that they can manage their own security better
*without* patching known vulnerabilities and issues.

You are not very smart, are you Zaphod? I have been running Windows
since '93 and I have never had a Windows virus yet. While I have
repaired other people computers that have been infected. It is funny how
the real misguided people (who believes they are the smart ones) don't
really understand computers whatsoever.

At least Windows Secrets (02/24/11) tells a different story. And
they say there is nothing there for most users. Also they dubbed SP
to mean in this case as slim pickings. ;-)

Which of course refers to a lack of new features and functionality in
SP1, as I'm sure you well know, not the fact that it contains a
roll-up of security patches and fixes issues since the release of
Windows 7.

Is that so? Since you think you are so smart, please tell me why I need
security patches when I don't get viruses anyway? And what fixes do I
need that needs fixing? As everything seems to be running very smoothly
here.
http://www.networkworld.com/community/print/79156

According to the spy-conference brochure [PDF [8]], the Hacking Team
Cyber Intelligence solutions include remote control systems that offer
"total invisibility" and "total control over desktops and smartphones"
as well as "the widest selection of infection vectors" and "easy
installation on target devices." According to the company's brochure [1]
[PDF], different tools promise to "bypasses protection systems such as
antivirus, antispyware and personal firewalls." The Hacking Team [9]
website proudly proclaims a wide variety of extra creepy and invasive
surveillance tools for Big Brother:

Deploy a secret agent - Total control over your targets. Log everything
you need. Always. Anywhere they are.
Go stealth and untraceable - Invisible to the target. Evade computer
security.
Acquire relevant data - Interesting data never gets to the web, it stays
on the device.
Defeat encryption - Thousands of encrypted communications per day. Get
them in the clear.
All probably very much true. But there are so many tools available that
there isn't anything ever written can be totally stealth. Something
somewhere will give it away. Things like:

1) Hard drive activity when there shouldn't be any.
On a rare occasion I have seen this and wondered what was going on.
2) Internet usage when there shouldn't be any.
I've seen this quite a few times.
So I enabled a log file but nothing showed in the logs, yet I saw
activity any way.
3) CPU usage when the system should be idle.
On a few occasions I've also seen that.
4) Strange processes running that shouldn't be there.
No strange processes I have ever noticed, but it doesn't mean that a
stealth process isn't running. Seen it on a few UNIX systems.
5) Computer suddenly becomes unstable while it has worked stable for
many years.
Haven't seen that tho.
And there are tons more things that will tip you off that something is
doing something it shouldn't. MS even has a utility that logs everything
your system is reading and writing too (I forgot the name of it).
The url I've posted has quite a few embedded urls that lead to other
government agency products that they use to snoop around in other
computers. And it makes a lot of sense to spy in that manner... no one
gets physically hurt. It is also a lot cheaper to do it that way than
to put boots on the ground, so to speak.
So considering that not only our own government but also other
governments have invested some expensive resources into researching on
how to do this in a very quiet way without so much as tipping off the
end user that they are being invaded and snooped on.
Okay if you are really paranoid, there are lots of things you can do
that not even the world's best virus writer can't break into your
system. And security updates doesn't even show up on the radar. Some of
them include:

1) Windows Embedded - Running Windows from ROM insures the OS cannot be
changed. The best any malware can do is to infect the RAM and that is
all (and it can't do much of anything there). And once the computer is
shut down, all malware that ever did manage to infect the RAM would be
totally wiped out.
It looks prudent to think so, but never say it is impossible to do. I
don't know how many times I have heard people say such and such is
impossible, only later to be proven wrong. In the early days of
computing a fellow worker didn't even believe that there was such a
thing as a computer virus. His perceptions were one of biological ones.
2) Another useful trick to foil malware is to run all Internet
communications through a sandbox. Thus anything that ever does get
through is forever stuck in the box. And you can always delete the box
anytime you want.
The article pretty much says that sandboxing can be gotten around now.

3) Windows SteadyState (free) also uses a sandbox like state and is
often used on public computers. This way no user (except administrator),
malware, or anything else can do any harm whatsoever.

There are lots of other tricks too, which blocks anything trying to
infect your system. There are only a number of ways to infect a
computer. And if you have all of the doors locked, they can't do a
single thing. And none of these methods depend on security updates either.
There are always ways to circumvent a system... it is just a question of
how difficult and is it worth pursuing.
I remember the days of DEFCON in Nevada where various operating systems
were tested for the ease of compromising. The only one I knew of that
couldn't be cracked in the limited 3 day limit was VMS. But eventually,
a way was found in via PHP.
 
B

BillW50

Oh so you *DO* care to some degree? Then why not apply the updates?
Unless you meant that you could *NOT* care less. That's one of my pet
peeves, how people leave out that one 3 letter word that changes the
whole meaning of the phrase.
Well you might have lost me and I care a lot about pet peeves. As I view
them as very important (even though most people don't). Anyway things
labeled as security updates and I never had a security problem, well
what do I care? As I care about a update that actually fixes a problem I
am having. And I don't care if an update fixes XYZ video card which I
never even heard of before and I don't even have. So why install crap
that I will never need? Seriously!
Another is hot water heater... if the
water's already hot, then why do you need to heat it?
You lost me again. If I already have hot water, I don't care about
something that will give me hot water. Although this ties into what I
have been talking about. As if all of the fancy MS updates doesn't give
me what I need... then why bother?
 
R

Roy Smith

Well you might have lost me and I care a lot about pet peeves. As I view
them as very important (even though most people don't). Anyway things
labeled as security updates and I never had a security problem, well
what do I care? As I care about a update that actually fixes a problem I
am having. And I don't care if an update fixes XYZ video card which I
never even heard of before and I don't even have. So why install crap
that I will never need? Seriously!
I think you might have missed the point of my sarcasm... You said that
"you could care less" about updates, so that means the item you are
talking about does hold some value to you and that there are other
things that you value less than that. The correct phrase is you could
not care less, which means that it holds absolutely no value to you at all.

I'm sorry that I forgot to put a smiley on my previous post to indicate
that it was all in good humor, and that I'm not trying to pick nits... :)


--

Roy Smith
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit
Thunderbird 8.0
Sunday, November 20, 2011 8:42:53 PM
 
B

BillW50

On 11/20/11 2:41 AM, BillW50 wrote:
On 9/2/2011 7:46 AM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
In Dave "Crash" Dummy wrote:
Installing SP 1 as an update is recommended, but it was released
months ago. I don't know why you are only now receiving it, unless
you have a new Win7 installation.

Who recommends it?

Pretty much everyone other than you and a few other misguided
individuals who think that they can manage their own security better
*without* patching known vulnerabilities and issues.

You are not very smart, are you Zaphod? I have been running Windows
since '93 and I have never had a Windows virus yet. While I have
repaired other people computers that have been infected. It is funny
how
the real misguided people (who believes they are the smart ones) don't
really understand computers whatsoever.

At least Windows Secrets (02/24/11) tells a different story. And
they say there is nothing there for most users. Also they dubbed SP
to mean in this case as slim pickings. ;-)

Which of course refers to a lack of new features and functionality in
SP1, as I'm sure you well know, not the fact that it contains a
roll-up of security patches and fixes issues since the release of
Windows 7.

Is that so? Since you think you are so smart, please tell me why I need
security patches when I don't get viruses anyway? And what fixes do I
need that needs fixing? As everything seems to be running very smoothly
here.

http://www.networkworld.com/community/print/79156

According to the spy-conference brochure [PDF [8]], the Hacking Team
Cyber Intelligence solutions include remote control systems that offer
"total invisibility" and "total control over desktops and smartphones"
as well as "the widest selection of infection vectors" and "easy
installation on target devices." According to the company's brochure [1]
[PDF], different tools promise to "bypasses protection systems such as
antivirus, antispyware and personal firewalls." The Hacking Team [9]
website proudly proclaims a wide variety of extra creepy and invasive
surveillance tools for Big Brother:

Deploy a secret agent - Total control over your targets. Log everything
you need. Always. Anywhere they are.
Go stealth and untraceable - Invisible to the target. Evade computer
security.
Acquire relevant data - Interesting data never gets to the web, it stays
on the device.
Defeat encryption - Thousands of encrypted communications per day. Get
them in the clear.
All probably very much true. But there are so many tools available that
there isn't anything ever written can be totally stealth. Something
somewhere will give it away. Things like:

1) Hard drive activity when there shouldn't be any.
On a rare occasion I have seen this and wondered what was going on.
Don't wonder why it is happening, investigate.
I've seen this quite a few times.
So I enabled a log file but nothing showed in the logs, yet I saw
activity any way.
Something is wrong! It could be nothing like the your router and your
computer can't get it straight (okay it isn't really nothing and needs
to be fixed, but it isn't a security problem). But it could be something
really important.
On a few occasions I've also seen that.
There is always a reason for this.
No strange processes I have ever noticed, but it doesn't mean that a
stealth process isn't running. Seen it on a few UNIX systems.
Yeah stealth processes are an extra layer for sure. But they still can't
completely hide.
Haven't seen that tho.
Lots of malware does this. As they think they are so smart that they
don't have to bug test their software. Guess again.
The url I've posted has quite a few embedded urls that lead to other
government agency products that they use to snoop around in other
computers. And it makes a lot of sense to spy in that manner... no one
gets physically hurt. It is also a lot cheaper to do it that way than to
put boots on the ground, so to speak.
So considering that not only our own government but also other
governments have invested some expensive resources into researching on
how to do this in a very quiet way without so much as tipping off the
end user that they are being invaded and snooped on.
Whoa! I know nothing about that but I don't doubt that for a second.
It looks prudent to think so, but never say it is impossible to do. I
don't know how many times I have heard people say such and such is
impossible, only later to be proven wrong. In the early days of
computing a fellow worker didn't even believe that there was such a
thing as a computer virus. His perceptions were one of biological ones.
You are absolutely right! You don't know how many times I have watched
somebody say it can't be done and somebody else comes along as does the
impossible. Yes I know this all too well.

Yes it can happen, and I was only worried back in 2001. As I installed
Windows 2000 without any anti-virus checker or anything and went
directly to MS website to update it. And before I rebooted, I installed
a anti-virus checker and did a scan and found two viruses just waiting
for me to reboot so they could be installed.

It wasn't from MS I am sure, I wasn't stealth on the Internet and they
found a port they could slip viruses through. Up to 2001 I thought that
was perfectly safe. Now I know better. And now I have been safe ever since.
The article pretty much says that sandboxing can be gotten around now.
I know you can get around a sandbox if you know what sandbox you are
dealing with. But I know of nothing that can get around all sandboxes.
Plus if you are trying to hack through a sandbox, it almost sounds
personal. And if you make it that far, I'll be watching. ;-)
There are always ways to circumvent a system... it is just a question of
how difficult and is it worth pursuing.
I remember the days of DEFCON in Nevada where various operating systems
were tested for the ease of compromising. The only one I knew of that
couldn't be cracked in the limited 3 day limit was VMS. But eventually,
a way was found in via PHP.
No this isn't so at all. It is very easy with total isolation. But that
is so restrictive, who wants that? The next step is much freer control,
but has no ability to change anything. This too is somewhat restrictive,
but it is far better than leaving the doors wide open. ;-)
 
G

GreyCloud

Don't wonder why it is happening, investigate.
I tried, but I don't have the tools to trace it with.
However, the only thing I noticed was when running an activity monitor
on UNIX was an outgoing network flow. In that moment I unplugged the
cat-5 cable to put a stop to it. At the time I was running Solaris 10.

On another platform, OpenVMS 6.2 with the intrusion software enabled, it
did catch and log the intrusion source. Odd that it came from some
military installation. But nothing was compromised on that system.
Something is wrong! It could be nothing like the your router and your
computer can't get it straight (okay it isn't really nothing and needs
to be fixed, but it isn't a security problem). But it could be something
really important.
Could have been someone with stealth tools, but who knows.
As the article had stated from NetWorkWorld, there are stealth tools
that can do this and they even go so far to say that all operating
systems can now be intruded upon without you knowing about it. I still
have to look into their claims for verification tho.
There is always a reason for this.
At the time I didn't have anything running but the activity monitor.
Then all of a sudden the cpu activity spiked up to around 70+%, no
harddrive activity, but with heavy outgoing traffic on the network.
Later I did find that a lot of internet websites that are visited leave
some cookies behind that from what I could find out about are actually
tracking your viewing habits for the purposes of advertisers.
Malware, or snoopware? More likely just tracking internet habits?
I don't know.
Yeah stealth processes are an extra layer for sure. But they still can't
completely hide.
That depends on how smart the writer was... there seems to always be
ways eventually that the public isn't informed of or aware of.

Lots of malware does this. As they think they are so smart that they
don't have to bug test their software. Guess again.
Depends on the operating system. The only system so far in my
experience that never shown any instability was OpenVMS. To many, when
they do see what appears to be instability is actually hardware
degradation. Under VMS and Solaris 10 logs are actually written to
inform of hardware degradation, and VMS takes it a step further by
identifying how many errors and the time of the error and which hardware
item caused it. But the average user won't need this extent.
There is an old VMS system that ran in Ireland that monitored their
railroad system that ran for 17 years non-stop. More of a testament to
DECs hardware than anything else.

On commodity hardware you'll hear where one person is experiencing
freezes, crashes or whatever on brand A and another person not
experiencing these problems running on brand B. On a UNIX system, when
it freezes up it shows a kernel panic. What I've found is that 95% of
the time it is bad memory, so doing a memory test always finds which bad
memory stick is faulty. Replacing the memory stick has always fixed the
problem. I'm not sure what bad memory looks like on Win7 tho.

Whoa! I know nothing about that but I don't doubt that for a second.
That is why the U.S. government funds cyber hacking facilities such as
the FBI and Homeland security. So far, most of the cyber hacking has
been traced back to China. Cyber warfare is currently going on.
You are absolutely right! You don't know how many times I have watched
somebody say it can't be done and somebody else comes along as does the
impossible. Yes I know this all too well.

Yes it can happen, and I was only worried back in 2001. As I installed
Windows 2000 without any anti-virus checker or anything and went
directly to MS website to update it. And before I rebooted, I installed
a anti-virus checker and did a scan and found two viruses just waiting
for me to reboot so they could be installed.

It wasn't from MS I am sure, I wasn't stealth on the Internet and they
found a port they could slip viruses through. Up to 2001 I thought that
was perfectly safe. Now I know better. And now I have been safe ever since.
The biggest thing I've found that prevents the majority of malware and
viruses from infecting your system is the proper choice of your ISP if
you have that option to choose from. AOL has a large investment in
keeping that stuff from getting at the end user, whereas a local mom n'
pop ISP doesn't.

I know you can get around a sandbox if you know what sandbox you are
dealing with. But I know of nothing that can get around all sandboxes.
Plus if you are trying to hack through a sandbox, it almost sounds
personal. And if you make it that far, I'll be watching. ;-)
Hehe... I'm waiting to see how the new Emergency Alert system for cell
phones and the internet will work and just how intrusive it will be.
Their last test was pretty lame and crude.
No this isn't so at all. It is very easy with total isolation. But that
is so restrictive, who wants that? The next step is much freer control,
but has no ability to change anything. This too is somewhat restrictive,
but it is far better than leaving the doors wide open. ;-)
They had a vms system there at defcon that was totally isolated. The
rules were how to intrude the system thru the net. Getting physical
access is another security level that big corporations have, but which
the end user doesn't have. IRC, OS X, Windows, Linux, and most UNIX
systems could be broke in by about an hour or two from the net.
And that was a few years ago. Progress pushes forward and who knows
what shady tools have been made now.
 
C

Char Jackson

It is now November 20th and I still didn't install SP1. Why should I? As
I don't need it.
Not needing it, and not understanding that you need it, are two
entirely different things. I've read the thread and it's clear that
you aren't interested in learning, so good luck and happy trails.
 
B

BillW50

In Char Jackson typed:
Not needing it, and not understanding that you need it, are two
entirely different things. I've read the thread and it's clear that
you aren't interested in learning, so good luck and happy trails.
No that isn't so Char! I been playing this updating game for decades and
I am still learning. And what I am learning is updates are for suckers.
Most updates only offer one a false sense of security and nothing more.
And it is you who are not interested in learning.

And it is so amazing to me, how somebody like you could be so ignorant!
Sure you can shoot your mouth like a 5 year old, no problem there. But
can you actually be intelligent and tell me why I should install SP1? I
mean anything, like new features or something that is so damn important?
No so far you can't. So why should we believe anything you say,
seriously!
 
M

MetalStorm©

In Char Jackson typed:

No that isn't so Char! I been playing this updating game for decades and
I am still learning. And what I am learning is updates are for suckers.
Most updates only offer one a false sense of security and nothing more.
And it is you who are not interested in learning.

And it is so amazing to me, how somebody like you could be so ignorant!
Sure you can shoot your mouth like a 5 year old, no problem there. But
can you actually be intelligent and tell me why I should install SP1? I
mean anything, like new features or something that is so damn important?
No so far you can't. So why should we believe anything you say,
seriously!
duh...did you ever think to google for the reasons why to install sp1?
me tinks you could get a more comprehensive answer f u google rather
than post here.
 
B

BillW50

In MetalStorm© typed:
duh...did you ever think to google for the reasons why to install sp1?
me tinks you could get a more comprehensive answer f u google rather
than post here.
I did MetalStorm! And I even listed some of them right in the beginning
of the thread. And that is why I know SP1 doesn't contain anything for
me. It doesn't contain anything for most home users either.
 
R

Robert Sudbury

So like, wow... you've cross-referenced all 970 fixes included in Service
Pack 1, plus the scores upon scores of fixes and unpublicized hotifxes
released since SP1 against all the software you use, their features, their
dependencies, including decompiling the programs and the operating system to
ensure that nothing affects you?

You're monitoring each and every web site you visit before you visit?

You're sniffing your network and all traffic, detailing each and every
packet sent and received byte by header by packet, on every port on your
computer, your router, your internet connection and comparing the results in
realtime with all the known issues that could possibly exist with Windows 7
and every conceivable piece of software you use, and might use or might
encounter while surfing? Right?

You've surely developed computational skills and an eidetic memory, rivaling
computers; capable not only of instantaneous, encyclopaedic recall, but able
to examine and cross-reference thousands upon thousands of lines of code,
while still enjoying life with a mere Asus Eee PC, in a split second in real
time while still managing to eat, sleep and lead a life? I'm impressed.

You must be a god to be able to know with absolute certainty that nothing
will ever go wrong. Microsoft should hire you and fire their legions of
coders, testers and quality assurance folk.

Remember to wear your seat belt while driving, the world can't afford to
lose your skill and wisdom.

BillW50 said:
In MetalStorm© typed:

I did MetalStorm! And I even listed some of them right in the beginning of
the thread. And that is why I know SP1 doesn't contain anything for me. It
doesn't contain anything for most home users either.

--
Bill
Asus EEE PC 702G8 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature database 6654 (20111123) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
--
[Robert]


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6654 (20111123) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 
A

Andy Burns

BillW50 said:
can you actually be intelligent and tell me why I should install SP1?
Given that you apparently don't install hotfixes from windows update
either ... what web browser do you use? do you use .pdf files or .doc
files on the machine, if so what do you view/edit them with?
 
R

Robert Sudbury

Hehe... Windows XP even. 8)

Oh you gotta love trolls.

Robert Sudbury said:
So like, wow... you've cross-referenced all 970 fixes included in Service
Pack 1, plus the scores upon scores of fixes and unpublicized hotifxes
released since SP1 against all the software you use, their features, their
dependencies, including decompiling the programs and the operating system
to ensure that nothing affects you?

You're monitoring each and every web site you visit before you visit?

You're sniffing your network and all traffic, detailing each and every
packet sent and received byte by header by packet, on every port on your
computer, your router, your internet connection and comparing the results
in realtime with all the known issues that could possibly exist with
Windows 7 and every conceivable piece of software you use, and might use
or might encounter while surfing? Right?

You've surely developed computational skills and an eidetic memory,
rivaling computers; capable not only of instantaneous, encyclopaedic
recall, but able to examine and cross-reference thousands upon thousands
of lines of code, while still enjoying life with a mere Asus Eee PC, in a
split second in real time while still managing to eat, sleep and lead a
life? I'm impressed.

You must be a god to be able to know with absolute certainty that nothing
will ever go wrong. Microsoft should hire you and fire their legions of
coders, testers and quality assurance folk.

Remember to wear your seat belt while driving, the world can't afford to
lose your skill and wisdom.

BillW50 said:
In MetalStorm© typed:

I did MetalStorm! And I even listed some of them right in the beginning
of the thread. And that is why I know SP1 doesn't contain anything for
me. It doesn't contain anything for most home users either.

--
Bill
Asus EEE PC 702G8 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature database 6654 (20111123) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
--
[Robert]

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature database 6654 (20111123) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
--
[Robert]


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6654 (20111123) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 
B

BillW50

Hehe... Windows XP even. 8)

Oh you gotta love trolls.
That makes no sense at all Robert. Yes some of us do also use XP. But
that doesn't make us wrong or trolls. But you are too naive to know any
better, isn't that so Robert?
 
B

BillW50

Given that you apparently don't install hotfixes from windows update
either ... what web browser do you use? do you use .pdf files or .doc
files on the machine, if so what do you view/edit them with?
That belief that I don't apparently install hotfixes either is partly
wrong. As a few years back somebody stated that their computer runs
better by not installing hotfixes. And since I have zillions of
computers here, I have the opportunity to see if there is any truth to
this claim. So some of my computers I do and some I don't. This is
called research Andy. Something that I don't see a lot of here.

What web browser do I use? Maxthon 3 mostly. For PDF I use FoxIt Reader.
For doc files I use WordPad, NotePro, or Word 2000. Although I rarely
ever save doc files for anything. As I generally save in txt, rtf, or
HTML formats instead. Even my Word has been changed to save in txt
format as the default.
 
B

BillW50

So like, wow... you've cross-referenced all 970 fixes included in
Service Pack 1, plus the scores upon scores of fixes and unpublicized
hotifxes released since SP1 against all the software you use, their
features, their dependencies, including decompiling the programs and the
operating system to ensure that nothing affects you?

You're monitoring each and every web site you visit before you visit?

You're sniffing your network and all traffic, detailing each and every
packet sent and received byte by header by packet, on every port on your
computer, your router, your internet connection and comparing the
results in realtime with all the known issues that could possibly exist
with Windows 7 and every conceivable piece of software you use, and
might use or might encounter while surfing? Right?

You've surely developed computational skills and an eidetic memory,
rivaling computers; capable not only of instantaneous, encyclopaedic
recall, but able to examine and cross-reference thousands upon thousands
of lines of code, while still enjoying life with a mere Asus Eee PC, in
a split second in real time while still managing to eat, sleep and lead
a life? I'm impressed.

You must be a god to be able to know with absolute certainty that
nothing will ever go wrong. Microsoft should hire you and fire their
legions of coders, testers and quality assurance folk.

Remember to wear your seat belt while driving, the world can't afford to
lose your skill and wisdom.
No Robert, life is too short to make things complicated. You just need
to look at what the SP contains and then run your tests. Take two (or
more) computers, half with SP1 and half without and then use the
computers like you normally do.

If you don't see any difference or the one(s) without operate better,
there is no reason to install SP1 on them. Now is there?

Remember I have played this update game for decades. And newer isn't
always better. This has been proved over and over again. And anybody who
doesn't understand this, isn't very smart IMHO.

I also know the media and marketing doesn't want you to know this. And
huge amounts of money is spent to keep people believing that only the
latest and the greatest is the only way to go. But it isn't so at all
except for the people who actually need the latest and greatest. Most
people don't. And if the latter does get caught up into this, they could
be making a huge mistake. And often they do.

Yes I do have three Asus EeePCs in this very room. I also have two
Toshibas, nine Gateways, and five Alienwares in this very room too. I
don't have a problem with that, do you? This isn't unusual for a
computer enthusiast.
 
A

Andy Burns

BillW50 said:
That belief that I don't apparently install hotfixes either is partly
wrong.
Oh, just that I asked a few weeks ago, and I thought you said you didn't
enable Windows Update (I hope I'm not misremembering) so do you pick and
choose the hotfixes? How do you know which ones are the real security fixes?
What web browser do I use? Maxthon 3 mostly.
I thought that was just a skin around the IE engine, but it seems that
it also includes the Webkit engine, do you disable the former, or
install hotfixes for IE?
For PDF I use FoxIt Reader.
For doc files I use WordPad, NotePro, or Word 2000.
Are you safe from the recent kernel mode embedded font engine bugs?

They're your machines and of course you run them how you feel (as do I)
but as others have said, I can't see how you have the info to decide
which hotfixes are the real scary ones and which not to bother with ...
 

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