NTFS junction points for the users folder in other languages - they do not always work?


R

Roland Schweiger

I am running the German Version of Windows7 (ultimate) and as far as i
understood, Windows7 uses NTFS junction points often, for compatibility
reasons and for language version differences.

For example the folder

C:\users or precicely %HomeDrive%\users still has a junction pointing to
c:\documents and settings\
for compatibility reasons to older software.

Just now i came across the following problem:
the German word for users is Benutzer and therefore the folder
c:\users
has a junction point by the system which allows the name
c:\Benutzer

Sof far so good but i only see the c:\Benutzer\ folder when i use the
Windows Explorer.

When using a command prompt and when i have to type some command along with
a path,
i must use the original folder
c:\users\
as the command prompt window always tells me that
c:\Benutzer\
does not exist.

Does anyone know why exactly these problems occur?

greetings

Roland Schweiger
 
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E

Ed Cryer

I am running the German Version of Windows7 (ultimate) and as far as i
understood, Windows7 uses NTFS junction points often, for compatibility
reasons and for language version differences.

For example the folder

C:\users or precicely %HomeDrive%\users still has a junction pointing to
c:\documents and settings\
for compatibility reasons to older software.

Just now i came across the following problem:
the German word for users is Benutzer and therefore the folder
c:\users
has a junction point by the system which allows the name
c:\Benutzer

Sof far so good but i only see the c:\Benutzer\ folder when i use the
Windows Explorer.

When using a command prompt and when i have to type some command along
with a path,
i must use the original folder
c:\users\
as the command prompt window always tells me that
c:\Benutzer\
does not exist.

Does anyone know why exactly these problems occur?

greetings

Roland Schweiger
Hi Roland.

That seems normal. Windows will let you use quite a few different
languages (look in Control Panel for changing) but the English names
stay as such on the disk drives.
The command prompt looks directly at the disks, not routed through
Windows itself.

That will apply to other utilities and packages too.

Ed
 
W

Wolf K

On 20/11/2011 7:53 AM, Roland Schweiger wrote:
[...]
When using a command prompt and when i have to type some command along
with a path,
i must use the original folder
c:\users\
as the command prompt window always tells me that
c:\Benutzer\
does not exist.

Does anyone know why exactly these problems occur?

greetings

Roland Schweiger
AFAIK, c:\Benutzer\ is not a folder but a pointer to a folder (ie,
/users), ie, a type of shortcut.

HTH
Wolf K.
 
R

Roland Schweiger

"Wolf K"
AFAIK, c:\Benutzer\ is not a folder but a pointer to a folder (ie,
/users), ie, a type of shortcut.


Yes, afaik it is an NTFS feature, a junction point similar to "documents and
settings" which points to %SystemDrive%\users

But i thought that junctionpoints and hard links of NTFS could be accessed
within a command prompt.

greetings

Roland Schweiger
 
R

Roland Schweiger

"Ed Cryer"
That seems normal. Windows will let you use quite a few different
languages (look in Control Panel for changing) but the English names
stay as such on the disk drives.
The command prompt looks directly at the disks, not routed through
Windows itself.

That will apply to other utilities and packages too.


Yep, however, if i understand the mechanism correctly, the NTFS feature of
junction points is used here, just like
c:\documents and settings\ is not a directory but a junction point pointing
to %SystemDrive%\users and this is only for compatibility to old software.

The problem with the junction points (or hard links or similar features of
NTFS) which allows the c:\user folder (or %SystemDrive%\user) to be accessed
in other language synonyms like
c:\Benutzer orr c:\utiliseurs\ is that things can go wrong is some local
software expects such a name.

so ... in future i will stick to the English original names to avoid such
problems :)

greetings

Roland
 
E

Ed Cryer

"Ed Cryer"
That seems normal. Windows will let you use quite a few different
languages (look in Control Panel for changing) but the English names
stay as such on the disk drives.
The command prompt looks directly at the disks, not routed through
Windows itself.

That will apply to other utilities and packages too.


Yep, however, if i understand the mechanism correctly, the NTFS feature
of junction points is used here, just like
c:\documents and settings\ is not a directory but a junction point
pointing to %SystemDrive%\users and this is only for compatibility to
old software.

The problem with the junction points (or hard links or similar features
of NTFS) which allows the c:\user folder (or %SystemDrive%\user) to be
accessed in other language synonyms like
c:\Benutzer orr c:\utiliseurs\ is that things can go wrong is some local
software expects such a name.

so ... in future i will stick to the English original names to avoid
such problems :)

greetings

Roland
I sympathise with you. I'm a native English-speaker, but you've made me
aware of a problem there. If it happens in German, then I suppose it
must be so in all other supported languages.

Have you ever contacted Microsoft? I'd love to hear their comments on
this. Drop them a line. It wouldn't take too long, might make you feel a
bit better, and I, for one, would read the reply quite happily.

Ed
 
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E

Ed Cryer

I sympathise with you. I'm a native English-speaker, but you've made me
aware of a problem there. If it happens in German, then I suppose it
must be so in all other supported languages.

Have you ever contacted Microsoft? I'd love to hear their comments on
this. Drop them a line. It wouldn't take too long, might make you feel a
bit better, and I, for one, would read the reply quite happily.

Ed
Here's a snapshot of my User Ed under command prompt;
http://tinyurl.com/7ombxdj

I'd be interested in seeing how yours looks.

Ed
 
R

Roland Schweiger

"Ed Cryer"
Have you ever contacted Microsoft? I'd love to hear their comments on
this. Drop them a line. It wouldn't take too long, might make you feel a
bit better, and I, for one, would read the reply quite happily.


have not yet thought of contacting MS but it might be an idea as there are
cases where things could go really wrong,
e.g. when writing software (or even simple scripts) where for convenience
you enter full-paths instead of constructed ones.

greetings

Roland Schweiger
 
R

Roland Schweiger

"Ed Cryer"
Here's a snapshot of my User Ed under command prompt;
http://tinyurl.com/7ombxdj

I'd be interested in seeing how yours looks.

And here is a snapshot of my c:\users\Roland
which - when using windows explorer - only appears as c:\Benutzer\

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=0462...A94F2B7965CA&id=462A94F2B7965CA!109&sc=photos


You can see clearly (sorry ... the folder is a total mess) but you can see
clearly that some folders appear with there real hardlink and the junction
points -
e.g. Documents ---> "Eigene Dateien" (literally "my own files").
Thus
c:\users\roland\documents\
is the same folder as
c:\Benutzer\Roland\Eigene Dateien\

but the original hard link folder must be accessed in a command prompt (and
hence command prompt utility)
where es the German equivalent must be accessed in Windows Explorer (and
file ---> save dialog boxes of any windows program).

Well .... do you know of any MS eMail address that "really works" e.g. where
one really gets an answer,
els i might try to post this somewhere on the MSDN / developer / knowledge
base.

Did not think that this could aparantly be a greater problem than i thought.

greetings

Roland Schweiger
 
E

Ed Cryer

"Ed Cryer"
Have you ever contacted Microsoft? I'd love to hear their comments on
this. Drop them a line. It wouldn't take too long, might make you feel a
bit better, and I, for one, would read the reply quite happily.


have not yet thought of contacting MS but it might be an idea as there
are cases where things could go really wrong,
e.g. when writing software (or even simple scripts) where for
convenience you enter full-paths instead of constructed ones.

greetings

Roland Schweiger
Your English seems A1 to me. If you dropped MS a line you'd probably be
teaching them something :)-
You can only try. Make it a short email but hammer the point home with a
really good example of something that actually would screw things up and
cause chaos.
Look here;
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/295539

Ed
 
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Y

Yousuf Khan

"Wolf K"
AFAIK, c:\Benutzer\ is not a folder but a pointer to a folder (ie,
/users), ie, a type of shortcut.


Yes, afaik it is an NTFS feature, a junction point similar to "documents
and settings" which points to %SystemDrive%\users

But i thought that junctionpoints and hard links of NTFS could be
accessed within a command prompt.

greetings

Roland Schweiger
A shortcut is a rather half-assed way of creating links. Most programs
don't transparently recognize them, like they would transparently
recognize junction points, hardlinks, and symbolic links. However,
shortcuts have the advantage that they are generic enough to work in FAT
file systems, whereas the others only work through NTFS. You might try
to remove the "Benutzer" shortcut, and replace it with a "Benutzer"
junction point or hardlink.

See the command-line commands "mklink /h" in Windows Vista and above, or
"fsutil hardlink create" under XP.

Yousuf Khan
 
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