Library enhancements and/or replacement

[Gene Wirchenko]

[snip]

Microsoft Outlook does. LOL
It is years since I used Eudora. Does it not allow you to create
additional mailboxes then filter copies to those other mailboxes as
they arrive in the main inbox.

Sure, but I want some E-mails to go to more than one mailbox.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

 

[charlie]

Now the question is, who's longer in the tooth. 65 this coming January,
but getting the curiosity back that I had in my Atari days.

65 in January? that's a few years younger than I !
I lost my enthusiasm for digging around in the Win ops system when the
number of files mushroomed, MS didn't properly document everything,
and a significant part of the available documentation was incomplete or
inaccurate.
Such things as "calls" and "return data" that did not behave as
documented were just a part.

Actually you can do quite a bit with windows via command line access and
scripting. (Once you find all the documentation.)

 

[Ken Springer]

[snip]

Microsoft Outlook does. LOL
It is years since I used Eudora. Does it not allow you to create
additional mailboxes then filter copies to those other mailboxes as
they arrive in the main inbox.

Sure, but I want some E-mails to go to more than one mailbox.

Thunderbird's filters will allow you to copy in incoming message to
other mailboxes. Is that what you'd like?


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 16.0.1
Thunderbird 16.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.6.2

 

[mick]

[snip]

Microsoft Outlook does. LOL
It is years since I used Eudora. Does it not allow you to create
additional mailboxes then filter copies to those other mailboxes as
they arrive in the main inbox.

Sure, but I want some E-mails to go to more than one mailbox.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Set a rule for each mail box the original needs to go to.

 

[mick]

Yes I can, but I don't want to.
One copy of any individual email is enough for me, and I can have it
appear in as many folders as I like.

You have lost me on this :-?
If I sent you ONE email and you do not make a copy of it how do you
make that ONE specific email appear in many folders?

 

[Ed Cryer]

On 11/8/12 9:33 AM, Wolf K wrote:
[snip]

Sounds like you need a real database. "Libraries" is a half-hearted
attempt to create a filing system like a database.

But using a database seems to be a bit of overkill just to have a change
in the way you can view folder/directory contents.

Why is it overkill to get the data presented in a useful manner?

The hierarchical view is often useful, but it is limited. When
its limits get pointed out, often, the response is belittle the
requirement. I have similar requirements with some E-mail. Some of
them, I would like to have in more than one mailbox. Eudora does not
do this.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

I think the database that Ken's outlining is a very simple
hierarchical database; simple one-to-one and one-to-many dependency
chains, like this.

Railroads
|
______________________|_________________
| | | |
| | | |
R1 R2 R3 R4
| | | |
| | | |
T1 T2 T3 T4

You don't need a library to set up that system; just standard Windows
folders, with standard ways of adding, deleting and modifying entries.

The programming required to produce all the info he's mentioned is very
standard as well. Once the data has been loaded it's a matter of
orthodox selection techniques to produce his various outputs. It could
all be done by just one program with a nice GUI for parameter input;
allowing data input and edit & reports or listings.


Incidentally, MS Access could do that easily; in fact it probably has a
default schema supplied.
And if Access can do it, I'd bet that OpenOffice's Base program can do
it too.

Ed

 

[Char Jackson]

You have lost me on this :-?
If I sent you ONE email and you do not make a copy of it how do you
make that ONE specific email appear in many folders?

As mentioned above, I'd use Outlook's Search Folders feature, which is
tailor made for this. Search Folders are virtual folders that you
customize however you'd like, and you can have as many of them as you
want.

For example, let's say you and I work together on multiple projects. I
might define a Search Folder that includes all email from you, another
Search Folder that includes all email (from anyone) that mentions a
specific project that you and I are working on, a third Search Folder
that includes any email referencing the vendor we've chosen, and so
on.

Now, when I get an email from you (first criteria) that references our
latest project (second criteria) and our selected vendor (third
criteria), that email will be visible in all three of those Search
Folders, even though there's only one physical copy of it in my email
store. Likewise, if I get an email from you about an entirely
different project that you and I are working on, it will appear in
just the one Search Folder (email from you) because it didn't meet the
criteria for the others. Outlook provides a tremendous amount of
flexibility in this area and the example above doesn't even scratch
the surface.

 

[Ed Cryer]

As mentioned above, I'd use Outlook's Search Folders feature, which is
tailor made for this. Search Folders are virtual folders that you
customize however you'd like, and you can have as many of them as you
want.

For example, let's say you and I work together on multiple projects. I
might define a Search Folder that includes all email from you, another
Search Folder that includes all email (from anyone) that mentions a
specific project that you and I are working on, a third Search Folder
that includes any email referencing the vendor we've chosen, and so
on.

Now, when I get an email from you (first criteria) that references our
latest project (second criteria) and our selected vendor (third
criteria), that email will be visible in all three of those Search
Folders, even though there's only one physical copy of it in my email
store. Likewise, if I get an email from you about an entirely
different project that you and I are working on, it will appear in
just the one Search Folder (email from you) because it didn't meet the
criteria for the others. Outlook provides a tremendous amount of
flexibility in this area and the example above doesn't even scratch
the surface.

"Criterion" - singular of the plural "criteria" .

Ed

 

[Ken Springer]

Hi, Ed,

On 11/8/12 9:33 AM, Wolf K wrote:
[snip]

Sounds like you need a real database. "Libraries" is a half-hearted
attempt to create a filing system like a database.

But using a database seems to be a bit of overkill just to have a change
in the way you can view folder/directory contents.

Why is it overkill to get the data presented in a useful manner?

The hierarchical view is often useful, but it is limited. When
its limits get pointed out, often, the response is belittle the
requirement. I have similar requirements with some E-mail. Some of
them, I would like to have in more than one mailbox. Eudora does not
do this.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

I think the database that Ken's outlining is a very simple
hierarchical database; simple one-to-one and one-to-many dependency
chains, like this.

Railroads
|
______________________|_________________
| | | |
| | | |
R1 R2 R3 R4
| | | |
| | | |
T1 T2 T3 T4

You don't need a library to set up that system; just standard Windows
folders, with standard ways of adding, deleting and modifying entries.

The programming required to produce all the info he's mentioned is very
standard as well. Once the data has been loaded it's a matter of
orthodox selection techniques to produce his various outputs. It could
all be done by just one program with a nice GUI for parameter input;
allowing data input and edit & reports or listings.


Incidentally, MS Access could do that easily; in fact it probably has a
default schema supplied.
And if Access can do it, I'd bet that OpenOffice's Base program can do
it too.

LOL! I'm not laughing at your post, or any of the posts. I'm just
looking at how the thread of my original post has evolved, covering many
suggestions as a solution. All of which are possible, depending on what
I want to do. And how some of those solutions get away from the KISS
principle of my wants/desires.

Two things brought up in this thread that I do plan to look at, but for
reasons not related to what I'd like to accomplish with Win 7 libraries,
are DOpus and FreeCommander.

To get back to the Kiss principle, I'll restate what I'd like to do
using libraries...

I have 4 folders, A, B, C, and D. In each folder at 10 files, 01.xxx,
02.xxx, ..., 10.xxx.

I create 2 libraries, Odd and Even. When I open the Odd library, I
would like to see the odd numbered files from all 4 folders. Just the
files, not a folder in sight. In the Even library, I want to see all
the even numbered files. That's pretty much it.

I'm trying to find a similar solution for OS X but so far no luck.

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 16.0.1
Thunderbird 16.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.6.2

 

[DanS]

As mentioned above, I'd use Outlook's Search Folders feature, which is
tailor made for this. Search Folders are virtual folders that you
customize however you'd like, and you can have as many of them as you
want.

For example, let's say you and I work together on multiple projects. I
might define a Search Folder that includes all email from you, another
Search Folder that includes all email (from anyone) that mentions a
specific project that you and I are working on, a third Search Folder
that includes any email referencing the vendor we've chosen, and so on.

Now, when I get an email from you (first criteria) that references our
latest project (second criteria) and our selected vendor (third
criteria), that email will be visible in all three of those Search
Folders, even though there's only one physical copy of it in my email
store. Likewise, if I get an email from you about an entirely different
project that you and I are working on, it will appear in just the one
Search Folder (email from you) because it didn't meet the criteria for
the others. Outlook provides a tremendous amount of flexibility in this
area and the example above doesn't even scratch the surface.

Uhhhhh. Thunderbird has had "Saved Searches" since version 3.something, or
even earlier.

 

[Char Jackson]

Uhhhhh. Thunderbird has had "Saved Searches" since version 3.something, or
even earlier.

I'm not sure if that's relevant, or how it's relevant, but thanks.

 

[Ed Cryer]

Hi, Ed,

On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 12:33:40 -0700, Ken Springer

On 11/8/12 9:33 AM, Wolf K wrote:

[snip]

Sounds like you need a real database. "Libraries" is a half-hearted
attempt to create a filing system like a database.

But using a database seems to be a bit of overkill just to have a
change
in the way you can view folder/directory contents.

Why is it overkill to get the data presented in a useful manner?

The hierarchical view is often useful, but it is limited. When
its limits get pointed out, often, the response is belittle the
requirement. I have similar requirements with some E-mail. Some of
them, I would like to have in more than one mailbox. Eudora does not
do this.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

I think the database that Ken's outlining is a very simple
hierarchical database; simple one-to-one and one-to-many dependency
chains, like this.

Railroads
|
______________________|_________________
| | | |
| | | |
R1 R2 R3 R4
| | | |
| | | |
T1 T2 T3 T4

You don't need a library to set up that system; just standard Windows
folders, with standard ways of adding, deleting and modifying entries.

The programming required to produce all the info he's mentioned is very
standard as well. Once the data has been loaded it's a matter of
orthodox selection techniques to produce his various outputs. It could
all be done by just one program with a nice GUI for parameter input;
allowing data input and edit & reports or listings.


Incidentally, MS Access could do that easily; in fact it probably has a
default schema supplied.
And if Access can do it, I'd bet that OpenOffice's Base program can do
it too.

LOL! I'm not laughing at your post, or any of the posts. I'm just
looking at how the thread of my original post has evolved, covering many
suggestions as a solution. All of which are possible, depending on what
I want to do. And how some of those solutions get away from the KISS
principle of my wants/desires.

Two things brought up in this thread that I do plan to look at, but for
reasons not related to what I'd like to accomplish with Win 7 libraries,
are DOpus and FreeCommander.

To get back to the Kiss principle, I'll restate what I'd like to do
using libraries...

I have 4 folders, A, B, C, and D. In each folder at 10 files, 01.xxx,
02.xxx, ..., 10.xxx.

I create 2 libraries, Odd and Even. When I open the Odd library, I
would like to see the odd numbered files from all 4 folders. Just the
files, not a folder in sight. In the Even library, I want to see all
the even numbered files. That's pretty much it.

I'm trying to find a similar solution for OS X but so far no luck.

Stop using mystifying language and you'll find a very simple solution.
"Library" needs unpacking.
Draw a data dependency chart.
Think outside the box of your attack on the metaphysics of Windows
libraries.

It really is a beginner's job for any experienced programmer.

Ed

 

[DanS]

I'm not sure if that's relevant, or how it's relevant, but thanks.

It's relevant because it the identical feature that you spoke of above
included in Outlook.

Outlook calls it "Search Folder", TB calls it "Saved Searches".

 

[Char Jackson]

It's relevant because it the identical feature that you spoke of above
included in Outlook.

Outlook calls it "Search Folder", TB calls it "Saved Searches".

Cool, thanks. I skimmed this page,
<https://support.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/kb/using-saved-searches>,
and it looks like the two program features are very similar.

BTW, it looks like Outlook has had this since version 2003, but I
haven't been using the feature nearly that long.

 

[Gene Wirchenko]

[snip]

Microsoft Outlook does. LOL
It is years since I used Eudora. Does it not allow you to create
additional mailboxes then filter copies to those other mailboxes as
they arrive in the main inbox.

Sure, but I want some E-mails to go to more than one mailbox.

Thunderbird's filters will allow you to copy in incoming message to
other mailboxes. Is that what you'd like?

Partly. I would also like to put outgoing E-mails in multiple
mailboxes, too.

Most of the time, matters concern one item, but I had a case
where in a uni course where I needed permission to use copyrighted
church material in a presentation. Properly, that chain of E-mails
should have been in both my course mailbox and the my church mailbox.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

 

[Ed Cryer]

Stop using mystifying language and you'll find a very simple solution.
"Library" needs unpacking.
Draw a data dependency chart.
Think outside the box of your attack on the metaphysics of Windows
libraries.

It really is a beginner's job for any experienced programmer.

Ed

Where does it say that the Windows libraries system could handle a task
like that?
Certainly nowhere in MS land.
And why not?
Because the Windows library system was never intended to handle a task
like that. Never. It is not a general DB system.
Can you state simply and clearly what the limitation is?
Yes. The Windows libraries system can only include full contents of
folders; never partial contents.

How then could Ken tinker his proposal so that it could be implemented
under the Windows library system?
He would have to hold the oddly numbered files in a separate folder from
the evenly numbered ones. Then it could be made to work.

Do you recommend, Ed, that he do that?
I wouldn't. That would introduce a non user-friendly kink into his data
structure; one which would affect all processes inputting, editing and
deleting the relevant data.

How then should he proceed to implement his proposal?
Under Windows he could use a simple hierarchy of folders, but then he'd
need a bespoke program to handle them, and do what he wants. Any
available programming language could do it; C++ being my choice.

And if he can't write bespoke programs?

Then use one of the many available database programs. They often come
with default templates for such data manipulation requirements; and
macro-creation tools too in many cases.

Ed

 

[mick]

As mentioned above, I'd use Outlook's Search Folders feature, which is
tailor made for this. Search Folders are virtual folders that you
customize however you'd like, and you can have as many of them as you
want.

For example, let's say you and I work together on multiple projects. I
might define a Search Folder that includes all email from you, another
Search Folder that includes all email (from anyone) that mentions a
specific project that you and I are working on, a third Search Folder
that includes any email referencing the vendor we've chosen, and so
on.

Now, when I get an email from you (first criteria) that references our
latest project (second criteria) and our selected vendor (third
criteria), that email will be visible in all three of those Search
Folders, even though there's only one physical copy of it in my email
store. Likewise, if I get an email from you about an entirely
different project that you and I are working on, it will appear in
just the one Search Folder (email from you) because it didn't meet the
criteria for the others. Outlook provides a tremendous amount of
flexibility in this area and the example above doesn't even scratch
the surface.

I understand now. The word 'virtual' was the key, I was mistaken in
thinking that you(we) were talking about physical folders ;o)

The only problem I find is that if you want to make a custom search
folder there is no option to search within archive folders.

 

[Char Jackson]

Where does it say that the Windows libraries system could handle a task
like that?
Certainly nowhere in MS land.
And why not?
Because the Windows library system was never intended to handle a task
like that. Never. It is not a general DB system.
Can you state simply and clearly what the limitation is?
Yes. The Windows libraries system can only include full contents of
folders; never partial contents.

How then could Ken tinker his proposal so that it could be implemented
under the Windows library system?
He would have to hold the oddly numbered files in a separate folder from
the evenly numbered ones. Then it could be made to work.

Do you recommend, Ed, that he do that?
I wouldn't. That would introduce a non user-friendly kink into his data
structure; one which would affect all processes inputting, editing and
deleting the relevant data.

How then should he proceed to implement his proposal?
Under Windows he could use a simple hierarchy of folders, but then he'd
need a bespoke program to handle them, and do what he wants. Any
available programming language could do it; C++ being my choice.

And if he can't write bespoke programs?

Then use one of the many available database programs. They often come
with default templates for such data manipulation requirements; and
macro-creation tools too in many cases.

This has been today's installment of, "Interview With Myself", with
your host, Ed Cryer. ;-)

 

[Char Jackson]

[snip]

Microsoft Outlook does. LOL
It is years since I used Eudora. Does it not allow you to create
additional mailboxes then filter copies to those other mailboxes as
they arrive in the main inbox.

Sure, but I want some E-mails to go to more than one mailbox.

Thunderbird's filters will allow you to copy in incoming message to
other mailboxes. Is that what you'd like?

Partly. I would also like to put outgoing E-mails in multiple
mailboxes, too.

Most of the time, matters concern one item, but I had a case
where in a uni course where I needed permission to use copyrighted
church material in a presentation. Properly, that chain of E-mails
should have been in both my course mailbox and the my church mailbox.

I think I've figured out that you use a completely non-standard
definition of the word mailbox.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Why can't the above be put into a proper sig file?

 

[Ken Springer]

I would also like to put outgoing E-mails in multiple
mailboxes, too.

Can do if you use the Send Filter add-on.

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 16.0.1
Thunderbird 16.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.6.2