Hybrid HD vs SSD


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Have Win 7 Home Prem 64 bit
with a 320GB Seagatge 'standard' hard drive.

I was thinking about getting a SSD drive and local Best Buy sales person mentioned the Seagate Momentus XT 500 GB Solid State Hybrid Drive.

I have tried to Google for more info, but not finding much in the way of actual users with their comments.

The Hybrid is $150 at Best Buy though Amazon has them for $100.
The SSD at Micro center for a 128GB is $220 to $240. I would be fine with a 128. I currently have 54GB used on my 320GB as I have a 2nd internal HD for back ups, photos, etc.
Also seems both the Hybrid and SSD come 2.5" but I am sure I can find a bracket to fit the 3.5 slot.

Any thoughts ?
Thx
 
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catilley1092

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This "Hybrid", is it a cross (or blend) between a SATA & SSD HDD's. Like mabye for those who really wants a SSD, but can't afford it?

I haven't seen a single forum post anywhere concerning this type of drive, nor that many articles or mention of it. There are second generation SSD's now, and they are proven.

These "hybrids", I would be cautious of, unless & until they become mainstream, and at least know of someone who has ran one for a while, with no negative issues to report.

Just my opinion.

Cat
 

clifford_cooley

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I have no experience with the hybrid drives but I do know a few details. :)

Also seems both the Hybrid and SSD come 2.5" but I am sure I can find a bracket to fit the 3.5 slot.
BYTECC Bracket-25350 Dual 2.5" HDD/SSD Bracket for 3.5" Drive Bay or Enclosure
This "Hybrid", is it a cross (or blend) between a SATA & SSD HDD's.
Hybrid drive
A Hybrid Drive, Hybrid Hard Drive (HHD), or Hybrid Hard Disk Drive (H-HDD) is a type of large-buffer computer hard disk drive. It is different from standard hard drives in that it integrates a cache using non-volatile memory or even a small solid-state drive (SSD).[1] Although the cache typically uses non-volatile flash memory, some drives use battery-backed volatile RAM (a hybrid RAM disk). The flash memory buffer can speed up repeated reads to the same location; a RAM buffer speeds both reads and writes, but must be written to backup storage before power is lost.
 
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yeah, my concern is that there are still moving parts.
I think I'll stick to the SSD.
 

catilley1092

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Thanks for explaining, c_c! That's more than I knew about them, and about all that I need to know.

Until I can afford a SSD, I'll stick with the SATA drives, many 1TB/32MB cache/7200rpm drives can be had for $59.99 & up. I was about to snatch up a Hitachi 1TB w/the same specs as the two that I have for that price, w/free shipping, but my notebook is acting up again (serious drive & possible other issues).

When I purchase a new notebook, one of those SSD's are among the upgrades that I make on it, probably a 128GB one. Being a notebook, the 2.5" size shouldn't be that much of a factor, but I'll double check before purchase.

sethm1, you're doing the right thing, in my opinion. $100 for 500GB of that type of product is too high, not to mention the gamble you're taking on a drive that few even uses. I'm sure that there's users of the product, but they're seldom mentioned, not even as a suggestion for anyone to use.

On the other hand, SSD's are gaining ground. And the reality is, 128GB is a lot of drive for your system (that 100MB one), "C", & recovery partitions. Movies and large amounts of data can be easily stored on external drives, and accessed as you need them. Those drives are cheap, some 2TB ones are around the $100 mark, you can add a case for as little as $15 or so.

Cat
 
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I was thinking about a 80GB SSD, but thinking a 128 would be safer.
of the 320GB drive I have, 54 is used. 80 is just too close to 54 and then what happens if I reach the limit.

The Hybrid might be good if my drive was 5200 rpm, but it's a 7200 rpm.
And what if (on the Hybrid) the 4 GB flash dies, then it would be like my Seagate drive. All in all, a nice concept, but more I read, it may have its flaws.
 
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clifford_cooley

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This is also a nice concept.

Silverstone HDDBoost
HDDBOOST is a unique product that combines the best qualities of traditional hard drive and solid state disk (SSD) into one virtual super storage solution. Depending on the speed of the SSD added, the HDDBOOST can increase the performance of an existing host hard drive up to 70%(*)! This speed increase is very noticeable and significant for any PC users that have not experienced using SSD drives before. For those who are not ready to compromise on storage capacity and reliability for speed, HDDBOOST will enable SSD speed on its host hard drive and reduce the write times to SSD’s more fragile flash-based storage system, thus extending its effective lifetime.
Basically merging a SSD and a Platter drive into a Hyrbid drive configuration.
 

catilley1092

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That does appear to be a neat idea. It would probably work well with desktops.

Reading the article though, makes the SSD's look as though they're fragile, something that upon reading, may cause one to second guess purchasing one. I guess that's why they don't carry a 5 year warranty, while some SATA drives do.

But it would be good to have a regular HDD to have that speed, too. It looks like a good upgrade for a desktop.

Cat
 

Digerati

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I haven't seen a single forum post anywhere concerning this type of drive, nor that many articles or mention of it.
Some guy named Bing Google can help with that! ;)

I've had a couple builds with hybrid drives and unfortunately, only had a couple days to play with them - but I like them. Don't expect anything the first time you use them. The on-board "intelligent" SSD/HD controller takes awhile to learn your habits, but after a few sessions, performance will be noticeably faster on most tasks.

However, the best compromise, for PCs anyway, would be a small ~64Gb boot/OS disk and a large traditional or hybrid second drive.
 
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I just came back from Microcenter.
Happened to see a 128GB SSD by Corsair Extreme Series.
Though a refurb, it was marked at $140. For $20 more bought the 2 yr warr.
For a total of $172 with tax beats the price of a new one. Microcenter employee says if they sell enough (refurb), they will get more.
With not moving parts, what can go wrong?


Anyone installed a Silverstone HDD Boost?
Wonder if it would fit my desktop. My tower has the easy pull out bays and seems the Silverstone wont fit.
 

catilley1092

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What kind of warranty did it have to begin with? I have to admit, my only knowledge of SSD's has came from this forum, and a few ads, and one friend who had a bad experience with one.

But refurbished products, I have plenty of first hand knowledge of, most of it was junk, with one exception. A 160GB WD Passport that I bought on eBay from an Australian dealer, it had a 6 month warranty from WD, and I added a 2 years more from SquareTrade for less than $10. It's been a good backup drive for my notebook for over 2 years now.

I hope that your purchase serves you well, and that drive lasts a long time. I do plan to get one myself, but as an extra precaution against data loss, I may consider using Acronis's non-stop backup that I already have, but haven't used yet.

One thing about those SSD's, they're kinda like comparing the conversion of the old timey point type ignition to the electronic, and now computerized ones. One user, a friend, told me that they give no notice of impending failure. I can't verify that first hand, but the person who told me this, I've known for years, and had no reason to tell me a fib. His SSD, one of those WD's, died on him in less than a year's time. He RMA'd it, then sold it to someone else, not wanting to trust them again.

It had me second guessing as to whether I wanted one, but I figured that anyone can get a defective or DOA product on any given day, regardless of the brand. My Caviar Black, that carries WD's best warranty (5 years) went to rattling and was running hot less than 6 months after purchase. The replacement has been fine, fast, and quiet, as it's advertised to be.

That Silverstone HDDBoost looks promising, I'll have to keep tabs on that product, it may very well become mainstream at some point, once word spreads good.

sethm1, I hope that you enjoy your purchase, keep us informed of how it goes. I'm interested in how it performs for you. Your Customer Experience Index number (as far as your drive is concerned) should improve noticeably.

Cat
 
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Nibiru2012

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However, the best compromise, for PCs anyway, would be a small ~64Gb boot/OS disk and a large traditional or hybrid second drive.
I agree entirely there Digs!
 
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It came with a 30 day warranty, so I gladly paid the $20 for 2 years.
Its a Corsair, which I think is a good name.
I have had Seagates/Maxtors go out in 2 and 3 years.
From what I have read, since there are no moving parts, less to go run. Plus should not heat up as much and be quieter.

I too now have Acronis- though wonder if my image on this current drive will work on the new one.
 

catilley1092

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I would guess that depends on the size of the backup that you have. What you should do is download a professional defrag tool, such as Perfect Disk Pro. They have a free 30 day trial version. It has a "Consolidate Free Space" option, after you do your regular defrag with it, use that option, you can really setup the drive to shrink some space with it.

That's what I did, my "C" partition was over 900GB, I could only shrink it to 250GB, but that one option allowed me to shrink another 90GB. I tried again today, to mabye get it down to 120GB, but it wouldn't work.

The next time I have to reinstall on here, I'm using the smallest SATA drive that I have (160GB), then I won't have this issue any more. I'll install to that, shrink it, backup, and install that backup on it's intended destination.

Use Mini Tool Partition Wizard (in the Free Software Database) to do the final shrink with, prior to backup.

After you've shrunk it all that you can, then move it to your new drive. As long as you're not carrying drive issues to the other, and you've resized enough, you should be OK.

Cat
 

Digerati

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With not moving parts, what can go wrong?
Lots - but certainly with no moving parts, your chances are all good are much better.
 

Nibiru2012

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It's best to set the partition sizes prior to the OS installation. Trying to shrink partitions may not always work as intended since Windows places different parts of the OS in various places on the drive's partition.

Regarding moving parts versus none, yes there is less chance of things occurring but remember anything designed and made by man can and will go kaput on occasion.

Temperatures can be a little higher with an SSD versus an HDD. My Samsung HDD runs about 26 deg Celsius while my OCZ Vertex 2 is at a constant 30 deg Celsius. NAND flash chips do put off heat... my SSD is located at the bottom of the drive cage while the Samsung is at the top; both are behind a 140mm case fan blowing air at 1500 RPM.

Defragging an SSD in not recommended by any of their respective makers, especially on a regular basis as it will wear out the MLC of the NAND chips. You may do it once or twice but not on a regular basis. Besides since an SSD is so fast it doesn't really matter since the entire SSD is read much faster than a HDD.

Bigger is not necessarily better regarding SSDs, I use a 60GB OCZ Vertex 2 and have two 500GB Samsung HDD storage drives. It works just fine, but then I don't run multiple OS on the same drive. It will still be a couple of years or so until the SSD markets begins to really become cost-effective for most end-users. Their prices have dropped lately, but with the change to the 25nm chips from the 34nm chips there are certain issues cropping up and one of them being longevity of the drive life.

From the Mushkin Enhanced website:
State of the Solid State Drive
A Primer on the SSD Market and Mushkin, Inc.’s Plans in the Segment


The Solid State Drive (SSD) market is one of the most exciting and fastest-growing segments in computer components today, and for good reason. SSDs offer a host of advantages over traditional platter-based Hard Disk Drives, with many of these advantages already known to seasoned computer enthusiasts.


Mushkin, Inc. has been very eager to release SSDs with the best specifications and quality control standards that exist. Our “Io” and “Callisto deluxe” SSD series have been enjoyed and recognized the world over by end users and enthusiasts alike. However, as the SSD segment continues to grow and manufacturers adapt to the latest technologies, some irregularities and performance issues have arisen.

NAND manufacturers are currently undergoing a shift in the die size of their chips. To remain as competitive as possible, manufacturers continually strive to shrink their process technology. 2008 saw the dominance of 50nm Nodes; during 2009-10, 34nm became the most widespread die. Today, manufacture is shifting to 25nm die.


While the process reduction to 25nm reduces cost both for manufacturers and consumers, there are intrinsic drawbacks to the 25nm which give rise to problems that have not yet been solved. Because of the manner in which 25nm NAND chips interact with controllers, capacity is noticeably reduced. In addition, 25nm chips have far fewer available program erase cycles, thereby reducing endurance of SSDs with 25nm NAND.
(My emphasis added)

We here at Mushkin, Inc. have always strived to deliver the best hardware that has gone through the most strenuous quality control process. We feel that consumers will not yet enjoy the benefits of 25nm Flash memory because of the capacity-reduction issues involved. We will continue to provide SSDs utilizing 34nm Flash memory chips to ensure that our customers get the quality product they’re expecting and what they very well may have ordered before. As soon as we are convinced of the effectiveness of 25nm Flash memory, we will release products that meet our standards which are accurately described as being different than their 34nm counterparts.
SOURCE

Mushkin has been the only maker I know of so far to be forthright and upfront about the change in the Flash memory chips. They're an American company and make some of the best damn RAM available. I have NEVER HAD AN ISSUE or a BAD STICK of RAM from Mushkin, that is why I recommend it solely for mid-range and high-end systems.

I was fortunate to get one of the very last OCZ Vertex 2 SSD units with the 34nm Flash chips in it. All the rest are now with the 25nm Flash and a slightly smaller reduced capacity. If anyone is considering purchasing an SSD, I would highly recommend they look at Mushkin first.
 
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Some one at work asked if the Corsiar has trim support.

New term for me, so went to the Corsair site & their forums.
Seems Trim is a good feature- does my Corsair have that I have no idea as I would have to probably install that drive then run a tool to check its firmware.
 

Nibiru2012

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Trim support is supplied by the operating system, not the SSD. Windows 7 and some Linux OS have TRIM native to them. Nearly all, though not some of the older units of SSDs support the TRIM command, if it was made within the last 18 months, don't worry.

See this Wikipedia article if you need further info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIM

The SSD firmware may be checked via the BIOS or Local Disk properties then clicking the SSD name and the Properties button.
 
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