card

G

gufus

P

Paul

gufus said:
7600GT AGP - should be good
- check the Nvidia site for drivers (just to see what
OS choices show in the menu, when you select 7600GT)

- the card uses the HSI bridge chip, which is under the rectangular heatsink
- HSI should be compatible with any 8x motherboard slot at the very least,
which is what your D865GBF has.

- if you buy it, don't forget to plug in the power cable on the end of
the video card.

- It uses a Molex 1x4 power connection. Try to use a cable which
is exclusively for the usage of the video card. (I shared my video card
power cable with some disk drives and it was too much load on the
power cable. If your power supply doesn't have many cables, you may
not have a choice in the matter. One of my disk drives made a "spin up
then spin down" sound, over and over again, until I changed the cable
setup.)

- in ballpark numbers, the card is probably 48 watts max (based on
similarity to 6600GT)

6200 AGP - slightly less DC power needed than 7600GT
- less performance than 7600GT when gaming
- no auxiliary power cable needed to use the card
- wide range of drivers
- probably the next card to not get any new drivers (so check that the OS
you plan to use, that 6200 card users are happy with the driver - I don't
see a reason to worry, and am just mentioning this for completeness).
- the Ebay picture shows it is "Universal keyed", meaning not only can it
work with your AGP8X 1.5V slot, but it can also work in an older 3.3V only
motherboard. For example, it could work in my 440BX based motherboard with
the 1.1GHz Tualatin Celeron processor. And that's a ten year old motherboard.

Both cards look good. Because I dabble in the odd game, I'd probably get the 7600GT.
The only thing that might stop me, is if the computer power supply was
particularly weak. Or if you knew the computer case was already prone to overheating
or the like. But given a decent case, power supply, stable motherboard etc., I'd
rather have the 7600GT.

Paul
 
G

gufus

Hello, Paul!

- if you buy it, don't forget to plug in the power cable on
the end of
the video card.
I'm new to this, plug it in were? Btw, It only comes with a CD (drivers)

--
-gufus
Thou Shalt NOT excessively annoy others or
allow Thyself to become excessively annoyed

Message-ID: [email protected] Sent at 17:17
 
P

Paul

gufus said:
Hello, Paul!



I'm new to this, plug it in were? Btw, It only comes with a CD (drivers)
The black thing with the metal band, on the right hand end of the 7600GT
picture, is a Molex 1x4 disk drive power connector. You take a power
cable from the PC power supply, and plug it into the Molex 1x4.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7039/7600gt.gif

There are at least three power connector options on video cards. Some
used a floppy 1x4 power connector (which is slightly smaller in size).
Your AGP choice uses a Molex 1x4, which can handle a fair amount of
current without burning up. On newer cards, there are various PCI
Express power connectors, which carry +12V at respectable current levels,
to higher end video cards. Depending on how goofy the video card manufacturer
is, there is nothing stopping them from using a PCI Express power
connector, on one of their AGP cards. But for that point in time
(when a 7600GT AGP would be introduced), the Molex was a more popular
choice.

The installation steps for a new video card (minus a few details):

1) Uninstall old video card driver from Add/Remove.
Make sure you have the new driver package staged in a place that is
easy to find.
2) Do a shut down of Windows.
3) Turn off all power to the PC. To be absolutely sure, I unplug the
computer.
4) Remove faceplate screw. Install the card. There may be a "clip" that grabs
the "heel" of the card. The card may have a place where a "button" on the
clip can slide into place. The purpose of the clip, is to prevent the
non-faceplate end of the card from popping out of the slot.

Make sure you understand, how that clip holds the card in place. There
is nothing worse, than reaching down six months from now, squeezing
the clip, and not being able to get the video card out again. A
few minutes spent understanding how the clip holds the card, will
pay off later.

When the card is fully seated, make sure there is no "gold" showing on the contacts.
As proof the card is fully seated in the slot. The card should seat into
the socket, so that only a tiny bit of the contacts can be seen.

Install the faceplate screw. (On some computers, they have a fancy
screwless fastener to hold the card in place.)

Now, find a spare power cable on the ATX power supply, find a 1x4 disk
drive power connector, and plug it into the black 1x4 connector on the
end of the card. This power cable can supply more current, than some
of the contacts in the AGP slot, and is necessary for higher power cards.
Without the connector, a typical older video card might draw 30-35W through
the slot connector. For the 7600GT, it might use 48W, and the +12V rail might
be used as a source of power on the Molex. The +12V would be converted to
say 1.0V or so, for GPU core power or some other voltage for the memory chips.

5) You can power up the computer and try and set the BIOS to "AGP first" when
it comes to card priority. That might result in the BIOS screen appearing
on the 7600GT. Otherwise, the BIOS might still appear on the VGA connector
on the motherboard. You can try sorting this ahead of time (i.e. as step zero)
but maybe it won't allow you to do that until the AGP card is in place.
You can check the manual now, to see if there is a video card priority setting.

6) Boot into Windows. Windows will use a built-in VESA driver, if nothing else.
That is how Windows can draw on the screen, when "no" driver is installed.
Some of the more recent Windows OSes, may actually have an ATI or Nvidia driver
in place. Resolution at this point could be 640x480 or 800x600. Higher
resolutions become available, as the driver situation improves.

7) Install the new driver. If you use the CD that came with the video card,
it might automatically also install .NET, DirectX 9 or other auxiliary
packages. If you don't have the CD, you can generally figure out what's
missing, based on bogus error messages :)

8) I like to run some version of 3DMark, to prove the card is really installed
properly. If the benchmark errors out, then you can drop back and ask
some questions. The version I like (because it is a small download) is this one.
If the fan on the card is set to speed up when gaming, you might hear
the fan speed change. (I actually neutered this feature on my Nvidia
video card, because I hate when the fan runs at 100% - too loud.)

http://majorgeeks.com/3Dmark_d99.html

You can watch the video card temperature, with a program like GPUZ.
It keeps a chart of measurements, which you can examine when the benchmark is
finished. If the card reaches "boiling water" temperature, that's way too hot :)

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/SysInfo/GPU-Z/

During this step, it also pays to watch the card, with the side off,
to make sure the fan is spinning. Sometimes, the fan "melts" because it
got stuck, and the GPU got so hot it melted the plastic. Before installing
the card, you can take a finger and verify the fan still turns.

If all goes well, you'll be able to use the Display control panel to set
the monitor to the native resolution of the monitor. For example, my
monitor is 1280x1024 pixels, and that is the resolution setting I use.
I could set the resolution to 1024x768, but lettering on the screen would
be slightly distorted. That's why I stay at native resolution. If you
have a high res monitor, you can again use the Display control panel,
to scale the size of fonts used. Mine is set to "Large Size 120DPI",
which makes lettering a bit bigger on the screen. Windows may ask for
the Windows installer CD, when you do that.

HTH,
Paul
 
G

gufus

Hello, Paul!

Now, find a spare power cable on the ATX power supply, find a 1x4 disk
drive power connector, and plug it into the black 1x4 connector on the
end of the card.
So there should be a *spare* power cable (Molex 1x4) free on my power
supply? (haven't opened my case in awhile)
Thanks for the tools, and the help with video cards. I haven't changed much
in my computers. Mostly software and *I* write a bit of code.

My sidekick:

http://www.gypsy-designs.com

http://www.gypsy-designs.com/faq.html

Kevin

--
-gufus
Thou Shalt NOT excessively annoy others or
allow Thyself to become excessively annoyed

Message-ID: [email protected] Sent at 15:05
 
P

Paul

gufus said:
Hello, Paul!



So there should be a *spare* power cable (Molex 1x4) free on my power
supply? (haven't opened my case in awhile)
I can't guarantee you're going to have trouble. It would depend on the
amount of electrical load on the cable, whether you're using the card
for gaming and so on. I'm just saying, I've seen a problem with an
AGP video card (with Molex connector) sharing a cable with a couple
hard drives. One of the hard drives did not like that.

The normal 12V rail should be 12V +/- 5%. The disk drives sharing
a power cable, they're checking the voltage, and if it gets slightly
too low, the drive may decide to restart (making a spin down and spin up
noise). And that will play havoc with the computer. That might happen
if the Molex power cable voltage is around 11V or so. 3.5" drives
use two power signals, +12V for the motor, +5V for the logic board.
And the logic board monitors both supply rails for the correct
voltage, even though the design is likely to tolerate larger
power drops than that.

The disk drive also has a "clipping" function. It has a couple devices
on it, to limit the voltage from doing too high. The devices are
intended for "transient" protection. In cases where the power supply
fails and the output voltage goes too high, those devices get burned
on the disk drive logic board. The purpose of stopping transients,
is for situations where the hard drives are plugged and unplugged
while "hot". So not only does the drive check for a too low
voltage, but it also attempts to stop a too high voltage. A
temporary too high voltage, a transient, is stopped no problem,
but a steady wrong value of voltage causes the transient suppressor
to burn.

Paul
 
G

gufus

Hello, Paul!

I can't guarantee you're going to have trouble. It would depend on the
What I really mean, do I have to *modify* my power supply, or will there be
a extras' power cable?
--
-gufus
Thou Shalt NOT excessively annoy others or
allow Thyself to become excessively annoyed

Message-ID: [email protected] Sent at 17:57
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

Hello, Paul!



What I really mean, do I have to *modify* my power supply, or will there be
a extras' power cable?
Most power supplies have an excess of 4-pin Molex connectors.

You could, of course, look and see what you have. Radical thought...
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

Most power supplies have an excess of 4-pin Molex connectors.

You could, of course, look and see what you have. Radical thought...
Here is a chance to see what you're looking for --

Go to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molex_connector

Search for, or scroll down to near the bottom of the page, to see this:
Molex 8981 Series

Or just click on this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Molex_female_connector.jpg
to see a giant picture.

Note: the plastic part isn't always white.
 
C

Char Jackson

Most power supplies have an excess of 4-pin Molex connectors.

You could, of course, look and see what you have. Radical thought...
Radical is in the next aisle. This is the hand-holding department. ;-)
 
R

Roy Smith

Hello, Paul!



What I really mean, do I have to *modify* my power supply, or will there be
a extras' power cable?
Most power supplies have extra power connectors to allow for expansion.
Adding a second hard drive, CD/DVD/BluRay player and so on. Even if
you didn't have any free connector, you can always get a Y adapter to
add one.


--

Roy Smith
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit
Thunderbird 6.0.2
Wednesday, September 07, 2011 9:56:03 PM
 
P

Paul

gufus said:
Hello, Paul!



What I really mean, do I have to *modify* my power supply, or will there be
a extras' power cable?
OK, let's take a hypothetical situation.

1) You have a pre-built PC.
2) It has a 250W supply. Some of those are an honest 250W, and
will run right up to the limit no problem. (Better that, than a
dis-honest 350W that can only make 250W output.)
3) But, some of those come with a minimum of cables. In fact, there
are no spare cables to speak of. Part of the reason for doing that,
is cable dressing. It makes the pre-built computer look "clean" inside.
No messy left over wires.

If that was the case, first you'd try sharing the hard drive, CDROM,
and video card power with the same (shared) Molex cable. Now, say you
had hard drive problems, and the hard drive would spin down and up
again (like mine did). You couldn't run the PC like that.

Then, it would be time for a different supply. One with more cables
running from the distribution point.

Using an external "Y" cable, doesn't solve the voltage drop problem
in the cable coming from the ATX supply. So that won't fix it.

Odds are, you have enough cables on your current ATX supply to sort this out.

If worse comes to worse, you have hard drive problems, there are no
extra cables, we can discuss finding a replacement supply. For example,
if you have a super-tiny supply (a microATX), then you can shop for
a "Shuttle Upgrade" supply, as some of those were a bit stronger.

Personally, I wouldn't make modifications to the power distribution
board inside the supply. There is undoubtedly room to work in there,
but you need a pretty big soldering iron, to get the solder hot enough
to make modifications. (I've looked at some, and they're a mess. Some
are "blobby" looking, which means they couldn't solder the thing
properly at the factory.)

I own an 80W soldering iron, and that's the biggest one I've got. It
might take a 200W iron, to solder some of that particular area
inside the ATX supply. The amount of heat needed, is a function of
the area or volume of metal to be heated up. If you're dealing
with a large surface area, it functions as a "heat sink" and sucks
all the heat from the area. And to counteract that, the power level
of the iron has to go up.

I tried to get a 200W iron at a local equipment shop, but they told
me it was a special order, so I didn't bother. The last 200W iron
I used, was in metal shop class as a teenager. (We used to solder
sheet metal. It was a bit safer than some of our welding projects :) )

When I was getting started in electronics, I owned a "soldering gun",
the one with the trigger, that looks like a gun. But I burned that
out, by violating the duty cycle. (I think they're 20% duty cycle, and
you have to let them rest. If the transformer overheats, the gun is
ruined, which is what I did. It's probably for the best, because
as it turns out, they're not really the best thing for electronics
work. A pencil iron with grounded tip, is a bit better.)

Anyway, once you look inside the PC, it's not going to take you
long to size up the cabling situation.

Paul
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

Radical is in the next aisle. This is the hand-holding department. ;-)
Well, I did walk over to my hand-holding aisle, and I made a second post
from there, about a half hour after my first post :)
 
G

gufus

G

gufus

Hello, Paul!

Anyway, once you look inside the PC, it's not going to take you
long to size up the cabling situation.
Yep, *time* is a factor for me :(

--
-gufus
Thou Shalt NOT excessively annoy others or
allow Thyself to become excessively annoyed

Message-ID: [email protected] Sent at 14:07
 
G

gufus

Hello, Gene!

Well, I did walk over to my hand-holding aisle, and I made a second post
from there, about a half hour after my first post :)
:)


--
-gufus
Thou Shalt NOT excessively annoy others or
allow Thyself to become excessively annoyed

Message-ID: (e-mail address removed) Sent at 14:12
 
P

Paul

gufus said:
Hello, Paul!



Yep, *time* is a factor for me :(
What you're looking for, when you take the side off, is a
cable that's wrapped up with elastic bands or the like. In this
picture, you can see a few Molex "hiding in the forest". That
means there is likely one cable there, with two Molex and a floppy
or three Molex, on the same cable string. Which would be suitable
for your kind of project. Just take off the side panel, and have
a look.

http://azsurplus.com/images/win-300ps_powersupply.jpg

Cables that are in usage, won't be wrapped up in an elastic band
or nylon wrap like that. They're try and tuck any spares away
up top, and then you'll see the wires bundled up like that,
to get them out of the way.

Paul
 
J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

In message <[email protected]>, Paul <[email protected]>
writes:
[]
If that was the case, first you'd try sharing the hard drive, CDROM,
and video card power with the same (shared) Molex cable. Now, say you
had hard drive problems, and the hard drive would spin down and up
again (like mine did). You couldn't run the PC like that.

Then, it would be time for a different supply. One with more cables
running from the distribution point.

Using an external "Y" cable, doesn't solve the voltage drop problem
in the cable coming from the ATX supply. So that won't fix it.
Though it might on one of the other outputs, depending what they're
feeding (only a case fan for example perhaps).
Odds are, you have enough cables on your current ATX supply to sort this out.

If worse comes to worse, you have hard drive problems, there are no
extra cables, we can discuss finding a replacement supply. For example,
if you have a super-tiny supply (a microATX), then you can shop for
a "Shuttle Upgrade" supply, as some of those were a bit stronger.
Yes - original poster, have you looked at what sort of supply (physical
shape I mean) you have?
Personally, I wouldn't make modifications to the power distribution
board inside the supply. There is undoubtedly room to work in there,
but you need a pretty big soldering iron, to get the solder hot enough
to make modifications. (I've looked at some, and they're a mess. Some
are "blobby" looking, which means they couldn't solder the thing
properly at the factory.)
Another reason not to go in there is it's the one part of the PC (unless
it's _very_ ill) where you'll find dangerous voltages: there are
capacitors that charge up to peak mains (about 300V if on a 230/240
supply, I'm not sure for a 110 supply). Also, in my limited experience,
there might be sharp edges to the metal: since it's somewhere the
ordinary even savvy punter doesn't usually go, they don't bother about
smoothing the edges off as much.
I own an 80W soldering iron, and that's the biggest one I've got. It
might take a 200W iron, to solder some of that particular area
[]
Wow, if it needs agricultural power like that, I'd say it's not worth
the candle! (Unless one of a very unusual shape is needed, a replacement
power supply is likely to cost less.)
 
G

gufus

Hello, Paul!

http://azsurplus.com/images/win-300ps_powersupply.jpg

Cables that are in usage, won't be wrapped up in an elastic band
or nylon wrap like that. They're try and tuck any spares away
up top, and then you'll see the wires bundled up like that,
to get them out of the way.
I don't think it will be a problem, I'll drop you a note, when I go for the
upgrade.. Win7/RAM/video card etc..

Thanks for all your help Paul. :]

--
-gufus
Thou Shalt NOT excessively annoy others or
allow Thyself to become excessively annoyed

Message-ID: [email protected] Sent at 13:08
 
G

gufus

Hello, Paul!

6200 AGP - slightly less DC power needed than 7600GT
With the 6200 AGP, what would be a good BIOS setting for Aperture size?

AGP Aperture Size
• 4 MB
• 8 MB
• 16 MB
• 32 MB
• 64 MB (default)
• 128 MB
• 256 MB
Amount of system memory available for direct access by
the graphics device.

BTY, I pluged the 6200 into my PC, I'm just running *burnintest* on it right
now. http://www.passmark.com/
--
-gufus
Thou Shalt NOT excessively annoy others or
allow Thyself to become excessively annoyed

Message-ID: [email protected] Sent at 16:12
 

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