SOLVED BSOD New Variation

[Shintaro]

Phew! Wow. You know at least you will know hibernation back to front by the time this is over.

The longest the system has gone without freezing is on the order of about 12 hours, even with a clean boot. However, it has never frozen in safe mode. I was able to leave it in safe mode for almost two days before I had to get some work done

So what happens if you leave it running in normal mode without user interaction? Because i think you were saying in Safe Mode you were not using it.

You know I am starting to think that this is hardware related. I know over on post # 1 you said that you tested the hardware, but you said it will do it when you are using the PC, not even when the PC is idle.

1. Are you able to put the video card in another slot?
2. Have you stress tested the CPU?

It is so strange that it goes off to "la-la land" at random intervals.

There is some other idea's that, some other crash experts and I were discussing is that sometimes with particular RAM, slowing it down will help. But I am not sure with DDR2.
The other thing is that testing RAM, the longer the better. So just running 10 test might not be enough. Just some idea's.

 

[Fixer1234]

I do use it in safe mode, there are just a lot of tasks that can't be done in safe mode. The freezing after a normal boot happens both during active use and during idle.

The video is built into the mother board, not on a separate card. I've stress tested both the CPU and RAM (as well as testing the other components such as video).

I was also initially convinced that the problem was hardware related. However, it doesn't crash in safe mode. If it was hardware related, I would expect it to.

The most logical explanation for crashing coming out of sleep is that the system hangs because it can't find something it needs (or something is corrupted and sends processing down a rabbit hole). It then never wakes up to the point where things like the input devices, video, and power switch are restored. It doesn't normally attempt to activate from the optical drive if it is successful with the hard disk.

I'm guessing that some background task that doesn't run in safe mode has a similar problem. That would explain the freezing. It could even be a task that is also part of waking up. That would explain a single common link.

 

[Shintaro]

I am just throwing around ideas.
Do you have access to a video card that you could put in to the PC? That way you could disable the on-board video and exclude the video from the equation.

I am just making sure, so forgive me if you have already done this:

• Just have a bare bones system running in normal mode.
• Remove all programs that are not required.

Just some suggestions.

 

[Fixer1234]

I don't have access to a video card but I'm almost at the point of getting a whole new computer and running it next to the current one to show it how it's supposed to work.

The system is pretty bare bones. There isn't much that isn't part of the motherboard. There's also no gaming hardware (or software), and nothing esoteric.

As far as removing all programs that aren't required, I can't get much closer to that than a "super-clean" boot. I've tried disabling everything that isn't nailed down (in fact, I worry that the problem may be that something critical has been disabled). I haven't been running any software other than a few Microsoft programs, a browser, and a few simple utilities that have been in use since the dawn of time. The only thing that runs in the background and remains active is Norton Security Suite, and I've tried disabling it as a test (no effect).

This is making my brain hurt.

 

[Shintaro]

The video card might cost $20, so I think it is worth a try. It is very useful to have another video card around.

If you are going to buy a new PC then I would suggest that you build it yourself. I think that you are capable of that.
I don't know anything about Gateway, but I would suggest that you stick with a mainstream motherboard brand. Gigabyte and the like.....

 

[Shintaro]

Just to make sure mate, have you removed all Gateway motherboard utilities?
Sometimes they have power management in them.

 

[Fixer1234]

More diagnostics, some of which address your power management question. No fix but to paraphrase Thomas Edison, at least we know more things that are not the problem.

1. I ran a clean boot with the Power service disabled. Still had a random freeze soon after that, so the freezing problem, at least, is not related to power management.

This test caused the same problem reported by everyone else who has tried it: Audio was also disabled. The reason: Microsoft cares more about the planet than about its customers. To squeeze every last drop of battery time on laptops and save the planet on desktops, every major function is tied into power management. This cannot be disabled, even if it prevents you from using your computer.

2. I set up an active screen saver (one that produces random graphics that keep the CPU busy). No effect--the system froze during screen saver activity.

3. The random freeze is not under Windows control like the BSOD. The BSOD is actually an orderly shut down by Windows when it recognizes a critical problem; it creates log entries of the problem before shutting down. With the freeze, Windows is just going along, minding its own business and something unexpectedly sends it down a rabbit hole. When it wakes up after a reboot, it's like, "wha' happened?"

 

[Shintaro]

I would say that it is appearing more and more as a hardware problem. The obvious thing is to start replacing parts, as you are not getting any crash dumps that point to a specific component.

Although, I would personally lean toward the CPU or motherboard.

I think you have covered everything and done all that you can. Which to me is a pretty complete job. Not to mention an incredible amount of time.

You have done well.

Time for new hardware or PC.

 

[Fixer1234]

I installed a POST diagnostic card and it does look like the problem is hardware-based. It appears that all of the freezing, wakeup, and boot problems are caused by a PCIRST (PCI Reset signal), that is triggered at inappropriate times and then stays on rather than being momentary. This leads to several questions:

1. Is there any chance that BIOS corruption could cause this and be correctable? or,

2. Could this only be a hardware problem and correctable only by replacing the motherboard?

3. Would there be any reason to not reuse the CPU on a new motherboard?

If this gets outside your area of expertise, would it make sense to post this as a new thread? Thanks.

 

[Shintaro]

You could re-flash theBIOS. But I'm not sure that will make a difference. Still worth a try anyway. If it is PCI bus, then I would say time for a new motherboard. POST card cool. At least you are learning heaps.
The CPU could be Ok, but be prepared that it might be.

The only way to be 100% sure is to use diag cards.Actually I think if it is PCI, then it will be the Ivy chipset, so BIOS will not make a difference.

 

[Fixer1234]

I think it's time to put this one to bed. Thanks for your help.

 

[Shintaro]

So what are you going to do??

 

[Fixer1234]

Looks like the only choice is to replace the power supply and/or motherboard. I'll replace the power supply first on the off chance I don't need a new motherboard, then test a new motherboard to see if the old power supply is OK. I'm guessing the old CPU is OK because it doesn't control the underlying problem.

 

[Nibiru2012]

If you are using an OEM power supply, then that may be the culprit. OEM power supplies are not known for their quality of build and smoothness of power supplied to the motherboard and other components.

You might check your motherboard to see if any of the capacitors are leaking or bulging. Many times bad caps will cause issues such as you've described.

For several years there were many PC and motherboard makers that suffered with poor quality capacitors supplied by unscrupulous vendors using a bad electrolytic compound in their capacitors. Dell got hit especially hard, then refused to correct the problem then sent out refurb mobos with the same problems.]

If you see bulging tops on the caps or a brown fluid leaking out, then you know you have to replace the motherboard.

Go here to read more about the issue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

 

[Fixer1234]

I wasn't aware of this. Good article. It pretty much described my symptoms. It would be great to have a smoking gun before rebuilding the whole computer. I had inspected the power supply and motherboard but after reading this, figured it was worth a closer look. Sadly, no signs of leakage. Good suggestion, though. Thanks.