Advice sought on Microsoft "Outlook 2010".

[Tester]

Don't know why MS decided to not include a newsreader program with their
os these days.

Because Microsoft hasn't got any newsgroups to support its customer
base. To cut its losses, M$ decided not to provide tools just to
support somebody's newsgroup infrastructure.

hth

 

[Tom Lake]

"GreyCloud" wrote in message

You're a year off on that - Outlook was the MS Exchange mail client since
1997.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Outlook

Check my post to Anderson... using OE 6.0.
I still have an even older Win95 on an HP in a box. It too came with a
newsreader integrated with the mail program.
Don't know why MS decided to not include a newsreader program with their
os these days.


People are talking about two different programs. Outlook Express (OE)
came with Windows and had an newsreader. Outlook is a totally different
program.
Outlook never came with Windows. It was and still is available as a
standalone
program or as part of the Microsoft Office suite. It doesn't have an
included
newsreader but versions prior to 2010 allowed a link to a newsreader to be
called
from an Outlook menu so it appeared to the user that the newsreader was part
of
Outlook. To Microsoft's way of thinking, Usenet is dying and is too hard to
control
anyway. A Web forum is much easier for MS to moderate.

Tom Lake

 

[Char Jackson]

Well, lets see if the header shows this post coming from OE 6.0. Still have
this old IBM with Win98 on it.

Yup, you're definitely posting from OE6.

"X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409"

No sign of Outlook anywhere. Just Outlook Express, which is a
completely different program.

 

[GreyCloud]

Greetings All,

I was giving this thread a read and I think that, if you're like me and
you've been using Outlook for a whole lotta years, one may remember the
"Outlook Newsreader". In actuality, IIRC, the "Outlook Newsreader" was
a link to OE that added a switch called "/outnews". This switch would
shift OE from an e-mail/news client to strictly a news client. When OE
was launched with this switch, OE would display the title "Outlook
Newsreader". If one has the latest version of OE, create a new link and
launch it with the "/outnews" switch and take a test drive. If you
would like to go "back in time", please give the following link a read:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/195879

I think that it might clear a few things up.

Thanks for the read.

Well, lets see if the header shows this post coming from OE 6.0. Still have
this old IBM with Win98 on it.

 

[VanguardLH]

Gee, maybe I ought to fire up my old IBM that has Win98 and put up a
post as proof.
It was OE6.0. And all versions of Win98 came with OE 6.0.

You do have a problem differentiating Outlook from Outlook EXPRESS.
They are NOT the same product nor is one a sibling or "lite" version of
the other. Outlook is a PIM that includes e-mail functions. Outlook
Express was a wholly separate product that started out as "Internet Mail
& News" hence the "imn" in its "msimn.exe" filename. Microsoft stupidly
renamed Outlook Express which thereafter confused users into thinking
Outlook Express was some derivative of Outlook.

Outlook Express is no more a derivated of Outlook than WordPerfect is a
derivative of Word. Having similar product names doesn't make them
related programs.

Respondents were correcting you on what is Outlook versus Outlook
EXPRESS and that Outlook was never supplied or bundled with any version
of Windows.

 

[Nil]

Check my post to Anderson... using OE 6.0.

That's irrelevant. OE has nothing to do with Outlook. There was no
Outlook before 1997, as is clearly explained in the article I
referenced.

 

[VanguardLH]

Because Microsoft hasn't got any newsgroups to support its customer
base. To cut its losses, M$ decided not to provide tools just to
support somebody's newsgroup infrastructure.

The actual reason why Microsoft dropped its NNTP services was because
Microsoft refuses to use a non-Microsoft NNTP server. Windows Server
2003 was the last version that included an NNTP service; however,
support for that old version was dropped. Later server versions of
Windows do not come with the NNTP service. Microsoft would only provide
an NNTP server when the NNTP service came with a supported version of
Windows. They won't use another NNTP program, like INN. That would
require training for their employees on non-Microsoft software.

For reasons that Microsoft has never made clear, they discontinued
including an NNTP service in post-2003 server versions of Windows. That
choice is what killed off their NNTP servers along with refusing to use
some other NNTP program.

There are probably some secondary causes for terminating their NNTP
servers, like the newsgroups being unmoderated and that Microsoft saw
newsgroups as a redundant support venue when they already had the
web-based forums (despite how deficient they are when compared to the
features available in newsreaders). Microsoft has never been too keen
on Usenet, anyway, since they don't get to define a proprietary
communications protocol for it or otherwise wrest some control over it.

Besides, Microsoft *did* and *does* provide a newsreader but just
doesn't bundle it with Windows. What users tend to forget or just fail
to recognize is that Outlook Express wasn't actually bundled with
Windows. It came bundled with Internet Explorer. When support died for
OE then it was no longer bundled with IE. OE was bundled with IE up to
version 6. When IE7 came out, OE was already long-dead and Microsoft
wasn't going to continue bundling a defunct product with a current
release. So OE stopped being bundled with IE as of version 7 of IE.
The original Windows XP release came with IE6 and why it happened to
include the OE6 that was bundled with IE6. Windows Vista comes with IE7
as its baseline version and Windows 7 comes with IE8 as its baseline
version, and that's why OE isn't available with those later versions of
Windows.

Because OE was unsupported by the time IE7 came out, that meant it would
no longer be bundled with IE. So Microsoft came out with Mail in
Windows Vista which does include NNTP support. Overlapping that was
Microsoft's Live initiative and why they came out with Windows Live
Mail. For some reason, Microsoft chose not to include Mail in Windows 7
and instead lets the user decide what to use for their e-mail and
newsreader clients. Maybe eventually you won't even get a web browser
included in the install or won't be able to elect one during the install
and will have to choose to later install one of your choice.

 

[Ken Blake]

Gee, maybe I ought to fire up my old IBM that has Win98 and put up a
post as proof.
It was OE6.0. And all versions of Win98 came with OE 6.0.

That's correct. Also Windows XP came with Outlook Express.

However, to say it again, no version of Windows has ever included
Outlook.

Do not make the mistake of confusing Outlook and Outlook Express--two
very different programs.

 

[Ken Blake]

Microsoft stupidly
renamed Outlook Express which thereafter confused users into thinking
Outlook Express was some derivative of Outlook.

Microsoft is good at some things, but terrible at others. Giving
things names is one of the things they are terrible at. Outlook vs.
Outlook Express is just one of their terrible choices of names.

In my view, they took a step in the right direction when they created
a new version of Outlook Express and called it Windows Mail. But they
took another backwards step when they named the next version Windows
Live Mail, thereby confusing people again.

 

[Ken Blake]

When I used win98, it came with OE 6.0. And of course it came with a
built in newsreader.
There was no such thing back in 1998 as just Outlook. It depends a lot
on where you are coming from.

Sorry, but you are again incorrect. The first version of Outlook was
Outlook 97, and it was released on January 16, 1997. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Outlook

And even if there had been no Outlook in 1998, calling Outlook Express
by the name Outlook would still be wrong, and would continue to
confuse people. Outlook and Outlook Express have always been two very
different programs.

 

[Ken Blake]

Besides, Microsoft *did* and *does* provide a newsreader but just
doesn't bundle it with Windows. What users tend to forget or just fail
to recognize is that Outlook Express wasn't actually bundled with
Windows. It came bundled with Internet Explorer.

Yes, but since Internet Explorer was bundled with Windows, Outlook
Express was too.

When support died for
OE then it was no longer bundled with IE. OE was bundled with IE up to
version 6. When IE7 came out, OE was already long-dead and Microsoft
wasn't going to continue bundling a defunct product with a current
release. So OE stopped being bundled with IE as of version 7 of IE.
The original Windows XP release came with IE6 and why it happened to
include the OE6 that was bundled with IE6. Windows Vista comes with IE7
as its baseline version and Windows 7 comes with IE8 as its baseline
version, and that's why OE isn't available with those later versions of
Windows.

Well, my view is somewhat different. Although there's no Outlook
Express (or any other e-mail client/newsreader) in Windows 7, Outlook
Express *was* included in Windows Vista. It was just a new version of
Outlook Express, and Microsoft (wisely, this time, to end confusion
with Outlook) changed its name to Windows Mail.

Because OE was unsupported by the time IE7 came out, that meant it would
no longer be bundled with IE. So Microsoft came out with Mail in
Windows Vista which does include NNTP support. Overlapping that was
Microsoft's Live initiative and why they came out with Windows Live
Mail. For some reason, Microsoft chose not to include Mail in Windows 7
and instead lets the user decide what to use for their e-mail and
newsreader clients.

I'm not sure why Microsoft chose not to have an e-mail client in
Windows 7, but I think it was a good move. Although many people object
to this, I think it's a step in the right direction, since it leaves
everyone more free to choose whatever program(s) he likes best.

Maybe eventually you won't even get a web browser
included in the install or won't be able to elect one during the install
and will have to choose to later install one of your choice.

Maybe, but personally I doubt that that will ever happen, unless they
are somehow forced to do that.

 

[relic]

Gee, maybe I ought to fire up my old IBM that has Win98 and put up a post
as proof.
It was OE6.0. And all versions of Win98 came with OE 6.0.

The original Win98 had IE 4.0 and OE 4.0. Even Win98SE didn't come with OE
6.0.
You're also confusing Outlook and Outlook Express.

 

[Jack]

The original Win98 had IE 4.0 and OE 4.0. Even Win98SE didn't come with OE
6.0.

Even Windows ME had IE/OE 4.0. Updates is where IE/OE 6.0 came from for
those products.

 

[Bob Henson]

I'm not sure why Microsoft chose not to have an e-mail client in
Windows 7, but I think it was a good move.

It certainly was - anything that reduces the number of people potentially
using OE or WLM is a good thing.

 

[Peter Foldes]

And even if there had been no Outlook in 1998, calling Outlook Express
by the name Outlook would still be wrong, and would continue to
confuse people. Outlook and Outlook Express have always been two very
different programs.

Ken

Same story was with Front Page and Front Page Express

--
Peter
Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

 

[Ken Blake]

Ken

Same story was with Front Page and Front Page Express

One of the things I consider Microsoft to be poorest at is naming
things. It almost seems like they try to confuse people.

 

[VanguardLH]

Microsoft is good at some things, but terrible at others. Giving
things names is one of the things they are terrible at. Outlook vs.
Outlook Express is just one of their terrible choices of names.

In my view, they took a step in the right direction when they created
a new version of Outlook Express and called it Windows Mail. But they
took another backwards step when they named the next version Windows
Live Mail, thereby confusing people again.

Was it called "Windows Mail" in Windows Vista, or was it just called
"Mail" which would confuse it with the ancient "[Microsoft] Mail"?

 

[VanguardLH]

Gee, maybe I ought to fire up my old IBM that has Win98 and put up a
post as proof. It was OE6.0. And all versions of Win98 came with OE
6.0.

Windows 98 "came" with Outlook EXPRESS /version 4/ because Windows 98
came with Internet Explorer v4 with which OE got bundled. You got
version 6 (of IE and OE) after applying updates to Windows. For Windows
98, the baseline for IE was v4 hence the same baseline version for OE.

Look at the release dates:
??-Sep-1997 - Internet Explorer 4.0 (with Outlook Express 4.0)
25-Jun-1998 - Windows 98
18-Mar-1999 - Internet Explorer 5.0 (with Outlook Express 5.0)
27-Aug-2001 - Internet Explorer 6.0 (with Outlook Express 6.0)

IE6 (and OE6) weren't released until *3 YEARS after* Windows 98. So OE6
didn't come with Windows 98. OE4 came with Windows 98. You got OE6
AFTER applying updates.

 

[VanguardLH]

And even if there had been no Outlook in 1998, calling Outlook Express
by the name Outlook would still be wrong, and would continue to
confuse people. Outlook and Outlook Express have always been two very
different programs.

The original name (pre-IE4) was "Internet Mail & News" (IMN). Microsoft
renamed it to "Outlook Express" with its bundling in IE4.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Mail_and_News

Marketers aren't reputed to be technical wizards. Putting "spin" on a
product to make something look like what it is not is part of their job.

 

[GreyCloud]

Yup, you're definitely posting from OE6.

"X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409"

No sign of Outlook anywhere. Just Outlook Express, which is a
completely different program.

I see that. This is in response to another poster saying that MS never
provided
any newsreader with any version of windows... which back in the win98
days they did.
But it has been several years (about 2000) since I have used windows.
Rather odd for them to
use an older name "Outlook Express" as an email/newsreader client and
then remoniker a different
product with the new name "Outlook".