XP emulation


A

Alan Justice

I just got a new computer with Win7 Pro. Some of the programs that worked
on my XP machine don't install. How do I get into XP emulation mode? Does
that have to be done when Win7 is installed, or is it not too late. I hear
it's not easy.
 
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P

Paul

Alan said:
I just got a new computer with Win7 Pro. Some of the programs that worked
on my XP machine don't install. How do I get into XP emulation mode? Does
that have to be done when Win7 is installed, or is it not too late. I hear
it's not easy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Virtual_PC#Windows_XP_Mode

"Windows XP Mode is available free of charge to users of Windows 7 Professional,
Enterprise, and Ultimate. Users of other editions of Windows 7 are not eligible
to download and use it.

This restriction does not apply to Windows Virtual PC itself."

It consists of two parts. Windows Virtual PC is a copy of VPC2007, with the
user interface changed to suit the Windows 7 GUI. It includes Terminal Services
style output, allowing single programs to appear as if they're running in
Windows 7. Or, you can run in a windowed mode, similar to how VPC2007 ran
previously.

If you have the required Windows 7 OS version, then you likely
need to download two files.

Windows Virtual PC. Available in 32 bit or 64 bit, to match the host OS.
This would run multiple OSes on its own.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=3702

The WinXP file to run as a guest, is a separate download. There
are two versions here, and the one with the "N" in it, could be
for European Union compliance (no IE boiled in???). I'd take the
non-N one if I was doing this. Even though they don't bother to
explain the difference.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=3702

And a third party site, will typically have more complete instructions.
Microsoft could never do it quite like this.

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/8247-windows-xp-mode-install-setup.html

Paul
 
Y

Yousuf Khan

I just got a new computer with Win7 Pro. Some of the programs that worked
on my XP machine don't install. How do I get into XP emulation mode? Does
that have to be done when Win7 is installed, or is it not too late. I hear
it's not easy.
You don't have to install the full XP Mode emulator to get most XP
programs to work. Just run the Troubleshoot Compatibility wizard on the
install program, and it'll get installed in XP compatibility mode.

Yousuf Khan
 
A

Art Todesco

You don't have to install the full XP Mode emulator to get most XP
programs to work. Just run the Troubleshoot Compatibility wizard on the
install program, and it'll get installed in XP compatibility mode.

Yousuf Khan
Well, maybe not all of them. I've got a few that have to be run in the
XP emulator.
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

Which ones? I've never had this problem
For me it was the software for three programmable A/V remote controls,
two models by Philips and one model by Universal Remote Control.
 
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G

Gene E. Bloch

For me it was the software for three programmable A/V remote controls,
two models by Philips and one model by Universal Remote Control.
I just recalled. I also have to run the software for the Logitech
Harmony 300 Remote in the XP VM.

That software runs only as a browser-based application. However, it does
run in another Windows 7 computer. It's a total mystery to me and
apparently to Logitech support as well.
 
P

pjp

Which ones? I've never had this problem
I run an XP VM under W7 just so that an older version of DVDx will work
properly. The "new" "full" version DVDx 4 that works under W7 is not
free and their free trial version leaves a lot to be desired. P.S. Don't
think it's same people doing new versus old version.

That said, I find I now use the free AVC to convert the VOB files to AVI
most of the time now so it's not needed any more.

I could not get Need For Speed HP2 to work under W7 but that's about the
only game hasn't that I expected to.
 
C

Char Jackson

I run an XP VM under W7 just so that an older version of DVDx will work
properly. The "new" "full" version DVDx 4 that works under W7 is not
free and their free trial version leaves a lot to be desired. P.S. Don't
think it's same people doing new versus old version.

That said, I find I now use the free AVC to convert the VOB files to AVI
most of the time now so it's not needed any more.
There aren't many people doing avi anymore. Matroska and mp4 have
pretty much taken over.
 
A

Alan Justice

Yousuf Khan said:
You don't have to install the full XP Mode emulator to get most XP
programs to work. Just run the Troubleshoot Compatibility wizard on the
install program, and it'll get installed in XP compatibility mode.

Yousuf Khan
What's the "full" XP Mode emulator? Is that one of the 2 file that Paul
said to DL? Do I need them both?

(BTW, the main program I want is Nikon Scan for their slide scanner. There
is a 3rd party replacement (VueScan) which costs money and is not as
ood. )
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

What's the "full" XP Mode emulator? Is that one of the 2 file that Paul
said to DL? Do I need them both?

(BTW, the main program I want is Nikon Scan for their slide scanner. There
is a 3rd party replacement (VueScan) which costs money and is not as
ood. )
His terminology might be confusing you.

1. You can run software under "compatibility mode" in Windows 7. This
means Windows 7 makes allowances for the old code. You set it per
program by opening up Properties and clicking on 'Run in compatibility
mode' after choosing which mode.

2. In higher versions of Windows 7 you can install XP mode, which is a
package of a virtual machine and an XP license. You are running the
program in XP *in the virtual machine*. This software is not provided by
default, but it's a free download from Microsoft. It's only available
for Win 7 Pro or higher.

The second one is what Yousuf Khan means by the full XP mode emulator.

The use of XP mode has been explained in this thread already, along with
another approach or two.
 
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P

pjp

There aren't many people doing avi anymore. Matroska and mp4 have
pretty much taken over.
I have/keep so much video I standardized a long time ago on Xvid/MP3,
especially once I had a hardware dvd burner would play them straight up
so could fit 10 more or less concerts/movies on a single disk and pop it
into player, e.g. last disk I burned was all 10 episodes of "The Blue
Planet" a BBC documentary.

I still only own old analog tv's, don't pay for cable or sat. etc. and
am reaching a point where the library is so vaste that I HAVE TO keep
some old system running plays it all. I don't see that being a problem
for future given I'm a "senior" :)

Both tv's in house also have a pc attached to them (and it's attached
stereo system) with tv out and there's a large shared network drive with
400+ music concerts, 1000++ movies and 60,000+ tunes all available at
any time. It's so simple to do it this way and has been for years I
really wonder what all this "media streaming to some other device" crap
is all about.
 
C

Char Jackson

I have/keep so much video I standardized a long time ago on Xvid/MP3,
especially once I had a hardware dvd burner would play them straight up
so could fit 10 more or less concerts/movies on a single disk and pop it
into player, e.g. last disk I burned was all 10 episodes of "The Blue
Planet" a BBC documentary.
I think I just threw up a little. :) "The Blue Planet" is one of my
favorites. I ripped the BluRay video, which was something like 15-20
GB per episode, then I boiled it down to 8-10 GB per episode, but I
couldn't bring myself to reduce it any further. The reduced video
quality was killing me. Now you tell me you've got it down to ~400 MB
per episode, which seems to be a crying shame for such a fantastic
series. I understand where you're coming from, though.
I still only own old analog tv's, don't pay for cable or sat. etc. and
am reaching a point where the library is so vaste that I HAVE TO keep
some old system running plays it all. I don't see that being a problem
for future given I'm a "senior" :)
I gave away my last 4 analog TV's, now I only have HD sets and can no
longer put up with Xvid-encoded video.
Both tv's in house also have a pc attached to them (and it's attached
stereo system) with tv out and there's a large shared network drive with
400+ music concerts, 1000++ movies and 60,000+ tunes all available at
any time. It's so simple to do it this way and has been for years I
really wonder what all this "media streaming to some other device" crap
is all about.
My media collection has about the same numbers, but it resides on two
volumes, one being 27 TB and the other being 11 TB (and growing). All
video is at least 720p now, with a bunch of it being 1080p/i. No Xvid
here.
 
P

Paul

Gene said:
His terminology might be confusing you.

1. You can run software under "compatibility mode" in Windows 7. This
means Windows 7 makes allowances for the old code. You set it per
program by opening up Properties and clicking on 'Run in compatibility
mode' after choosing which mode.

2. In higher versions of Windows 7 you can install XP mode, which is a
package of a virtual machine and an XP license. You are running the
program in XP *in the virtual machine*. This software is not provided by
default, but it's a free download from Microsoft. It's only available
for Win 7 Pro or higher.

The second one is what Yousuf Khan means by the full XP mode emulator.

The use of XP mode has been explained in this thread already, along with
another approach or two.
WinXP mode is virtual machine software. A copy of Windows XP runs
as a guest OS, inside the virtual machine software, and Windows 7
is the host OS. A limitation with such a setup, is the copy of
WinXP is "insulated" from the outside world. It's like it is in
a "Sandbox". To run Nikon Scan, the scanner would ideally
be USB based, but the Windows Virtual PC software has limitations
on how it handles passthru of USB devices into the guest OS.

A better approach, is VirtualBox, which redirects all traffic
for a particular USB device, based on VID/PID of the hardware.
The Windows Virtual PC redirection, is based on device type,
such as passthru of USB storage devices. So it may not
redirect a scanner.

Those are details of using a virtual machine.

The WinXP mode package can display the output of a program two
ways. It can either display in a rooted window (meaning a window
that looks like the WinXP desktop, appears on your Windows 7 machine).
Or, a WinXP program can also run in its own window floating around
on the Windows 7 desktop. This is done via Terminal Server display
output, to make it look like the WinXP mode program is integrated
into Windows 7 (when it isn't).

To run WinXP mode takes two downloaded files. The small download,
is Windows Virtual PC. That hosts the virtual OS. The WinXP file
to run WinXP mode on top of that, is 100's of megabytes in size.
Because it's like a copy of the C: drive from WinXP. It should
activate for you, when run within the Windows Virtual PC.

*******

Installing software under compatibility mode, is entirely different,
and then its running under Windows 7 directly. No downloads to do,
to make that work. It's just another mode to try to run a
program in. In that case, it doesn't matter how the scanner is
connected, because the scanner driver would be part of Windows 7.
This is unlike WinXP Mode, where the device must operate in
"passthru", for the sandboxed copy of WinXP to be able to "see" it.

*******

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP_Mode#Windows_XP_Mode

"Windows XP Mode can also be run with the VMware Player and
VMware Workstation. However, VMware products only import
Windows XP Mode on Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise, or
Ultimate to adhere with Microsoft licensing requirements."

That means, the WinXP Mode file download, can also be run by
something other than Windows Virtual PC download (the 16MB download).
You can use VMware to run it. What they don't explain, is different
major revisions of VMware treat the topic differently. The advice
given there, is for the older version of VMware. There is a newer
way to import the WinXP Mode virtual machine, with later versions
of VMWare.

And really, the only reason for caring about what software "hosts"
WinXP Mode, is for the "passthru" aspect of hardware treatment.
Ideally, I'd want to run VirtualBox for this, as it has the most
generous treatment of USB devices. But it may not be able to work
directly with the WinXP Mode file.

*******

For scanners, if you look hard enough (or someone helps you), there
is usually an alternative method to get scanning under Windows 7 working
again. Virtual Machines may be the last choice for such things, as
they can be annoyingly clunky when dealing with hardware. It took
me a couple tries with VirtualBox, before I finally got the
stupid thing handling USB properly. All I got was error boxes the
first time I tried to get USB working inside VirtualBox.

If you have a retail copy of WinXP and valid license key, you *can*
install that in VirtualBox, and with enough tweaking, talk to USB
devices with it. The purpose of "WinXP Mode", is you're getting
a copy of the OS that is ready to go, and has a license key and
everything (a free download, if you're using Pro). But if you
have your own copy of Windows XP to use, you can use that instead,
and then you can use it with more of the virtual machine hosting
software packages. That's how you can get VirtualBox involved.

Paul
 
Y

Yousuf Khan

I just recalled. I also have to run the software for the Logitech
Harmony 300 Remote in the XP VM.

That software runs only as a browser-based application. However, it does
run in another Windows 7 computer. It's a total mystery to me and
apparently to Logitech support as well.
I've run the Logitech Harmony remote software too, it works just fine in
Windows 7 without requiring any XP compatibility. I've run it on at
least 4 different computers and it's run fine in Vista and 7.

Yousuf Khan
 
Y

Yousuf Khan

What's the "full" XP Mode emulator? Is that one of the 2 file that Paul
said to DL? Do I need them both?
Yes, the "full" XP mode is a bit more complex, because it is running a
full version of XP inside a virtual machine.

The XP compatibility mode is much simpler system, it is just a simple
translator that takes any XP-style operating system calls and converts
them into Windows 7 operating system calls. Most of the calls between XP
and W7 should be identical, but a few might be different, so this
translator lets the program still believe that it's running on XP and
just converts the XP API into a Win7 API on the fly.

A virtual machine is considerably more complex and intense, and much
lower in performance than a simple translator would be. Of course, it
would do a much more thorough job of running XP programs, because it
would be running an entire real copy of the XP OS within the virtual
machine. In one case you're emulating a few software API's, while in the
other case you're emulating an entire processor and hardware. You can
see which one is going to be more intensive already.
(BTW, the main program I want is Nikon Scan for their slide scanner. There
is a 3rd party replacement (VueScan) which costs money and is not as
ood. )
Yes, usually hardware drivers will require that you run the full virtual
machine to work.

Yousuf Khan
 
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J

John Williamson

I think I just threw up a little. :) "The Blue Planet" is one of my
favorites. I ripped the BluRay video, which was something like 15-20
GB per episode, then I boiled it down to 8-10 GB per episode, but I
couldn't bring myself to reduce it any further. The reduced video
quality was killing me. Now you tell me you've got it down to ~400 MB
per episode, which seems to be a crying shame for such a fantastic
series. I understand where you're coming from, though.
If you're watching on a small screen or CRT, there's no point going any
better.
 
C

Char Jackson

If you're watching on a small screen or CRT, there's no point going any
better.
Two things come to mind:
1. The Blue Planet is amazing and deserves better than a small screen.
2. A small analog screen is going to kill the viewing experience in a
big way, but why intentionally make it worse by using lower quality
video? (This point directly contradicts your statement above.)
3. (Bonus) Many people with small analog screens won't always have
small analog screens. If/when they upgrade to something more modern,
first of all they'll kick themselves for not doing it sooner, but
second, they'll still have crappy video. Do it right the first time.
 
J

John Williamson

Two things come to mind:
1. The Blue Planet is amazing and deserves better than a small screen.
Agreed.

2. A small analog screen is going to kill the viewing experience in a
big way, but why intentionally make it worse by using lower quality
video? (This point directly contradicts your statement above.)
On a consumer grade CRT TV, you can't show anything more than about 400
across, and while there are admittedly 575 lines of vertical resolution
available on this side of the Herring Pond, most consumer TVs aren't
well enough adjusted to clearly show more than one scan's worth of
lines, so if you show alternating scans of white and black, what you get
it a flashing, horrible grey. Even HD sets with most of the source
material I've seen in the shops don't make me go "WOW!!!! I've got to to
buy one of those!" On the average SD set, you can just about tell the
difference between DVD and VHS on a good day. So, why pay more for
storage and processing than you need to when you can't tell the difference?
3. (Bonus) Many people with small analog screens won't always have
small analog screens. If/when they upgrade to something more modern,
first of all they'll kick themselves for not doing it sooner, but
second, they'll still have crappy video. Do it right the first time.
It depends on how much storage you have available or can afford for the
streaming files. I'm sure, given the choice, we'd all love to stream
full uncompressed HD video and 24/96 audio from the Hard Drive farm in
the attic...
 
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C

Char Jackson

It depends on how much storage you have available or can afford for the
streaming files. I'm sure, given the choice, we'd all love to stream
full uncompressed HD video and 24/96 audio from the Hard Drive farm in
the attic...
The attic in a typical house just might be one of the least suited
places for a storage farm. ;-)
 

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