Win 7 visual interface?


J

Jeff Layman

What is their purpose?
To give the MS developers a great laugh.

You can hear them when they imagine you cursing after you no longer need
a file in a library and delete it, then a few days later empty the
recycle bin, and a few days after that look for the file in its original
location.

They will be splitting their sides with laughter, and saying, "There
goes another one!"...
 
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D

Don Phillipson

HI Everybody, I,ve come to win 7 late after recently buying a new laptop
with Win 7 installed,.Is it me or does anyone else find this OS
visualling confusing,I've been using XP on laptops and desktops and find
it alot clearer,has anyone else found this?
Same here.

The main difference seems to be not so much the visual interface as
the controls, which have been reprogrammed as the hardware changed.
1. Early users of MS-DOS and Windows3 became adept users of
keyboard control (with hotkeys etc.)
2. Win3 also adopted the mouse: which programmers adopted as
the main way to control WinXP and Vista desktops. But they enabled
hotkeys as before, which experienced users found still the faster and better
way to control XP.
3. Win7 was designed more for laptops than desktops, oriented to
control by touchpads rather than either external mice or keyboards
(although both were enabled.) Power users find this is a step backwards
so far as typical laptop keyboards and mice are functionally inferior and
less reliable than those for desktops in the 1990s.
4. Win8 was designed for newer tablet hardware i.e. oriented to
control by touchscreen rather than keyboards. Programmers may
find it convenient to build on a platform of touchpad controls designed
for Win7 -- which encourages them to ignore mice and keyboards,
as not found on tablets.

Even keyboard design has evolved for the worse i.e. deteriorated
over 30 years. Early keyboards emulated the best typewriter
keyboards (after 100 years of continuous improvement) in
(1) clicky or firm response
(2) key layout, viz. programmable Dvorak or QWERTY arrangements
(3) AT board layout, with F-keys in two columns at the left, matching
the 4-columb keypad at right.
#1 supported touch typists, i.e. permitted control of the computer
without the need to look at your fingers. This control was amplified
by keyboard executive commands (using Ctl and Alt keys) rather
than mouse functions.

Adept users could use the keypad with the right hand as touch
typists (without looking) for data entry etc.: early F-key configurations
offered a number of preset commands (e.g. F3 for repeat Alt + F4
for exit or shutdown) that the touch typist could also master (without
looking, exploiting #3.) Touch typists had confidence in their
keyboards because of #1. As early as 1985 I had programmed the
F-keys (in Perfect Writer) with a whole range of special-purpose
software commands. This was normal for early office suites of
the 1980s (which from the 1990s tended to reduce key commands,
favouring instead mouse commands. The declining quality of
keyboards (becoming fragile, ultra-cheap and replaceable)
reinforced programmers' reorientation from keyboards to mice.

In brief, the skills and high degree of accuracy users learned
and developed in the 1980s were no longer supported by the
hardware market, and less than before by programmers. Win7's
relationship to the touchpad and Win8's to the touchscreen
confirms programmers are nowadays oriented mainly toward the
hardware (and no longer or much less to efficiency in the
execution of office functions, e.g. entering figures, drawing
in CAD, etc.) After all, the laptops we find when we go to
the store nowadays are preconfigured to be "entertainment
centres" than business machines.
 
C

Char Jackson

What is their purpose?
The purpose is to aggregate two or more folders into a composite view.
There are about 4 default libraries, but you can change them, delete
them, or create your own to manage any folders that you like.

In my house, we most frequently use the Documents library because it
aggregates the personal documents folder (and its subfolders) and the
public documents folder (and its subfolders), showing them in a single
view. It's quite convenient.

I honestly don't know why some people have a problem with the concept.
There's nothing complicated about it, as far as I can tell.
 
C

Char Jackson

To give the MS developers a great laugh.

You can hear them when they imagine you cursing after you no longer need
a file in a library and delete it, then a few days later empty the
recycle bin, and a few days after that look for the file in its original
location.
But seriously, deleting a file and then finding it gone is a concept
that's been with us for what, 50-60 years or more? (Long before
Windows came along.) Why is it suddenly strange and foreign?

Before Libraries were introduced, if you had two instances of Windows
Explorer open to the same folder, and you deleted a file in one
instance, were you shocked to see it gone in the second instance? If
not, why not? It's the same thing. When you delete a file, you're
deleting the file. It's always been that way and didn't change with
the introduction of Libraries.
 
S

Stan Brown

HI Everybody, I,ve come to win 7 late after recently buying a new laptop
with Win 7 installed,.Is it me or does anyone else find this OS
visualling confusing,I've been using XP on laptops and desktops and find it
alot clearer,has anyone else found this?
When you first switched to Windows XP from the previous version, I'll
bet you found it confusing; I know I did.

Every new Windows seems to have a user interface that's more or less
redesigned. Some people like the changes, some people dislike the
changes, and some dislike any change but eventually accept the
changes.

One thing that I think you'll like, when you get used to it, is the
redesigned start menu. No more clicking through the Start menu,
possibly scrolling it, trying to find a program. Instead you just
click the "start orb" or press the Windows key (if you have one),
type the first few letters of the program name, and there you are.

You might like the book /Windows 7 Inside Out/, which I found very
helpful when I was a new Win 7 user a couple of years ago.

And off course you can always ask questions here. (Try to be as
specific as possible about what you want to do and what you tried,
and use good descriptive subject lines.)
 
S

Stan Brown

I dislike the Libraries feature, which is pointless and confusing.
Me too!

Fortunately, you can hide them. The easiest way for a novice is to
open My Computer, right-click on each item in the list under
Libraries, and select "Don't show in navigation pane".
 
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J

John Williamson

Before Libraries were introduced, if you had two instances of Windows
Explorer open to the same folder, and you deleted a file in one
instance, were you shocked to see it gone in the second instance? If
not, why not? It's the same thing. When you delete a file, you're
deleting the file. It's always been that way and didn't change with
the introduction of Libraries.
Because in some other operating systems, the library only contains a
link to the file, and deleting the file in the library by deleting it
there only deletes the link, not the file itself. Just as when you
delete a symlink to a file in Linux, the file is untouched, and can
still be accessed using the normal methods. The nearest thing to this
concept in Windows are the shortcuts to files and applications on the
desktop and in menus. If you delete the shortcut, the file or
application is unaffected.

What people who have trouble with the Windows Library concept seem to be
missing is that opening a Windows Library effectively opens another
customised instance of Windows Explorer in a pane inside the one that's
already running. Once you get your head round that concept, it's easy.

Working out why MS did it this way, I'll leave as an exercise for the
reader.
 
W

...winston

To add...

"Don't show in navigation pane" is only an available rt. click context menu
item for the default Library folders when Windows Explorer is not
configured/disabled to 'Show all folders'
- Tools/Folder Options/<General Tab - Navigation Pane - Show All folders>

Also if 'Show all folders' is enabled the Default Folder context menu (rt
click) Properties option 'Show in navigation pane' will be grayed-out.



--
....winston
msft mvp mail


"Stan Brown" wrote in message

I dislike the Libraries feature, which is pointless and confusing.
Me too!

Fortunately, you can hide them. The easiest way for a novice is to
open My Computer, right-click on each item in the list under
Libraries, and select "Don't show in navigation pane".
 
C

Char Jackson

Because in some other operating systems, the library only contains a
link to the file, and deleting the file in the library by deleting it
there only deletes the link, not the file itself. Just as when you
delete a symlink to a file in Linux, the file is untouched, and can
still be accessed using the normal methods.
I don't worry about other Operating Systems when I'm using Windows.
How they do things doesn't concern me.
The nearest thing to this
concept in Windows are the shortcuts to files and applications on the
desktop and in menus. If you delete the shortcut, the file or
application is unaffected.
It should be drop dead easy to realize that Library items aren't [all]
shortcuts, just as any other Win Explorer view isn't necessarily all
shortcuts.
What people who have trouble with the Windows Library concept seem to be
missing is that opening a Windows Library effectively opens another
customised instance of Windows Explorer in a pane inside the one that's
already running. Once you get your head round that concept, it's easy.
I have no idea what that means, and it's STILL easy.
Working out why MS did it this way, I'll leave as an exercise for the
reader.
I have no problem with how they did it. Like I said earlier, they work
just fine for me.
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

Because in some other operating systems, the library only contains a
link to the file, and deleting the file in the library by deleting it
there only deletes the link, not the file itself. Just as when you
delete a symlink to a file in Linux, the file is untouched, and can
still be accessed using the normal methods. The nearest thing to this
concept in Windows are the shortcuts to files and applications on the
desktop and in menus. If you delete the shortcut, the file or
application is unaffected.
Also, what you wrote of non-Windows library files above is true of
*folders* in the Windows library scheme, but not of *files*.

That's part of why for some people (such as me) it's unexpected that
dropping a file out of the library kills it in its native land as well.

Even knowing that fact is no insurance against accidental deletions, at
least for people who are occasionally absent-minded.

"Why am I silly enough to post in this thread?", one (this one) might
ask :)
 
J

Jeff Layman

But seriously, deleting a file and then finding it gone is a concept
that's been with us for what, 50-60 years or more? (Long before
Windows came along.) Why is it suddenly strange and foreign?

Before Libraries were introduced, if you had two instances of Windows
Explorer open to the same folder, and you deleted a file in one
instance, were you shocked to see it gone in the second instance? If
not, why not? It's the same thing. When you delete a file, you're
deleting the file. It's always been that way and didn't change with
the introduction of Libraries.
I just checked back through my stored NG postings and we are following
the same arguments we went through 6 months ago in this NG! Maybe best
expressed by our friends in France:

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

and

Chacun à son goût.

:))
 
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S

Stan Brown

I just checked back through my stored NG postings and we are following
the same arguments we went through 6 months ago in this NG!
And we'll doubtless go through it again. As long as Google refuses
to archive the group, and as long as there's no FAQ, we can hardly
blame new people for asking old questions.
 
K

Ken Blake

And we'll doubtless go through it again. As long as Google refuses
to archive the group, and as long as there's no FAQ, we can hardly
blame new people for asking old questions.

Here's my view:

1. People with problems usually ask them, and don't look through
archives, whether Google's or anyone else's. That's often because they
don't know the archives exist or don't know how to use them.

2. FAQs are almost always worthless. Hardly anybody looks at them,
even if they know they exist (and they normally don't know they
exist).

So I never blame new people for asking old questions.
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

And we'll doubtless go through it again. As long as Google refuses
to archive the group, and as long as there's no FAQ, we can hardly
blame new people for asking old questions.
OTOH, the *old* people are answering those old questions and are
rehashing the old arguments.

In this thread, I am one of the guilty ones of whom I speak :)
 
G

Gene Wirchenko

On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 08:36:42 -0400, Stan Brown
Here's my view:

1. People with problems usually ask them, and don't look through
archives, whether Google's or anyone else's. That's often because they
don't know the archives exist or don't know how to use them.
1a) Someone who does not know the terminology is going to have a hard
time finding anything.

I have fit into this category many times. When I amjust getting
into an area which is rather opaque to me, I tend to end with a
question about what sorts of questions I should be asking. I do this,
because I recognise that I may be missing awareness of whole sections.

I appreciate it when someone steers me to the basics. I may have
more questions after that, but at least I have something to study.
2. FAQs are almost always worthless. Hardly anybody looks at them,
even if they know they exist (and they normally don't know they
exist).
Unfortunately, normally so.

On the plus side, comp.lang.javascript has a regular (daily?)
posting of questions from the clj FAQ. Only one question is posted at
a time with a link to where the whole FAQ can be found. I wish more
newsgroups had this.
So I never blame new people for asking old questions.
Likewise. Welcome newbie. Show that you are willing to do your
study, and I am quite willing to point out where to go for good
material and answer questions about odd points.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
 
P

Phantom Post

On the plus side, comp.lang.javascript has a regular (daily?)
posting of questions from the clj FAQ. Only one question is posted at
a time with a link to where the whole FAQ can be found. I wish more
newsgroups had this.
Is that the sound of Gene Wirchenko volunteering?
 
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D

Daniel Prince

Char Jackson said:
I assume you mean XP Pro 32-bit. The 64-bit version of XP never
reached wide acceptance, so finding drivers can be a problem.
The original poster said that he had eight gigs of ram. He probably
wants a 64 bit OS so that he can use all eight gigs and not just
around three gigs.
 
A

Ashton Crusher

HI Everybody, I,ve come to win 7 late after recently buying a new laptop
with Win 7 installed,.Is it me or does anyone else find this OS
visualling confusing,I've been using XP on laptops and desktops and find it
alot clearer,has anyone else found this?
or will i adjust?because at the moment i'm stuggling to find any significant
benefits and feel like reformatting the drive and installing XP pro 64bit.
the laptop has an I7 cpu and 8GB ram,
I here you can run 7 in XP mode but this appears to tie up a heap or system
resources.From all your experiences is it worth staying with 7 or not? or
will this go the way of vista or should I get 8?? Any ideas .Regards Paul
I've made the jump with each new windows version and found that within
a month or so I like the new version better overall. I really never
found XP/Vista/7 to be all that dissimilar anyway. Vista never worked
as well as an OS as either XP or 7 in my experience. I found 7 to be
the best of the bunch for stability.
 
G

Gene Wirchenko

Is that the sound of Gene Wirchenko volunteering?
No, since there is no FAQ and I am not a Windows 7 SME so I could
not write one.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
 
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S

Stan Brown

No, since there is no FAQ and I am not a Windows 7 SME so I could
not write one.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
Speaking as a past keeper of FAQs in misc.consumers and especially in
alt.algebra.help, it's a thankless task and you have to have a VERY
thick skin to endure repeated vicious attacks from people who want to
tear you down when you've spent hundreds of unpaid hours trying to
create a usable resource.
 

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