Thanks


J

Jussi

Grandsons,
Thanks much for your birthday greetings. I sure don't feel like 80 yet
but I do know that I am very proud of my grandsons and know that they
will have very productive lives and will continue to make their mother
very proud also.. Thanks again, Love, Grandpa
 
S

Sam Hill

Grandsons,
Thanks much for your birthday greetings. I sure don't feel like 80 yet
but I do know that I am very proud of my grandsons and know that they
will have very productive lives and will continue to make their mother
very proud also.. Thanks again, Love, Grandpa
Ahh, the dilemma that occurs when you use the same application for both
mail and news ...

Happy birthday, Jussi.

Perhaps your grandsons read Usenet!
 
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S

Scott

Ahh, the dilemma that occurs when you use the same application for both
mail and news ...

Happy birthday, Jussi.

Perhaps your grandsons read Usenet!
Perhaps it's their only communication :)
 
E

Ed Cryer

Jussi said:
Grandsons,
Thanks much for your birthday greetings. I sure don't feel like 80 yet
but I do know that I am very proud of my grandsons and know that they
will have very productive lives and will continue to make their mother
very proud also.. Thanks again, Love, Grandpa
God bless you, Jussi. And may the love you feel for your grandsons be
rewarded.

Ed
 
V

VanguardLH

Sam Hill said:
Ahh, the dilemma that occurs when you use the same application for both
mail and news ...
Most times it seems it's the users fault in thinking POP/IMAP/SMTP are
the same as NNTP. They don't know there is a difference; i.e., they
figure e-mail and newsgroups are the same thing. There are MANY times
when users refer to e-mail messages when posting to Usenet.

Sometimes the user neglect to check what has focus in their combo
client. They're looking at one folder for e-mail and aren't cognizant
that the client is currently highlighting a newsgroup. I've done that
when replying to a newsgroup that my eyes are looking at but post to the
wrong newsgroup because that's what the client had currently selected.

No matter what client is used, users still make goofs. Programs only
know what you told them to do, not what you meant them to do.

John Adams aka J Adams aka Jussi is a nymshifter. This poster uses a
nym of J Adams when posting through Eternal-September, John Adams when
posting through Mozilla, and Jussi when posting through AIOE. He uses a
different nym when posting through different servers.
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

Grandsons,
Thanks much for your birthday greetings. I sure don't feel like 80 yet
but I do know that I am very proud of my grandsons and know that they
will have very productive lives and will continue to make their mother
very proud also.. Thanks again, Love, Grandpa
Happy birthday and many happy returns!

Be sure to resend this message via e-mail when you get the chance :)
 
P

Paul

Gene said:
Happy birthday and many happy returns!

Be sure to resend this message via e-mail when you get the chance :)
By my count, this is the fifth in the "Jussi" series.

Um, you don't make a mistake like this five times, do you ?

I can't figure it out.

Also, in the "weather report post" earlier in the series,
there was a reference to North Camp Road. Based on the
message previous to this one, it would appear the place
is North Camp Road, Ishpeming, Michigan. So if another
weather report post shows up, we can check whether the
temperature matches that location.

I'm hoping, by the time I'm 80, I can still see the keyboard...

Paul
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

By my count, this is the fifth in the "Jussi" series.

Um, you don't make a mistake like this five times, do you ?
If you learn as well as I do, you could :)
 
V

VanguardLH

Paul said:
By my count, this is the fifth in the "Jussi" series.
Um, you don't make a mistake like this five times, do you ?
The more features (i.e., the more robust) a program the more likely an
uberboob will continue using it incorrectly. After all, it's not like
grandpa is actually expecting his grandsons to send a reply to validate
they got his e-mail. Grandpa is going to keep making the same mistake.

I suppose you could send him an e-mail telling him about his phuck ups.
Exhibiting ineptitude by repeatedly incorrectly sending e-mails to
Usenet also probably means he hasn't a clue about munging his e-mail
address in the From header to prevent spambot harvesting. That is,
since he is ignorant about the difference between e-mail and Usenet then
he is also probably ignorant about protecting his e-mail address, too.
 
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J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

In message <ke1353$5gp$1@news.albasani.net>, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH>
writes:
[]
John Adams aka J Adams aka Jussi is a nymshifter. This poster uses a
nym of J Adams when posting through Eternal-September, John Adams when
posting through Mozilla, and Jussi when posting through AIOE. He uses a
different nym when posting through different servers.
Use of the words "nymshifter" and "nym" imply, to me, that you think
this is being done to deceive. To me, it seems perfectly innocent to use
a different NAME to post via different servers, if you want to keep
track of such things. (I don't, because I don't; but I don't accuse
others.)
 
V

VanguardLH

J. P. Gilliver (John) said:
Use of the words "nymshifter" and "nym" imply, to me, that you think
this is being done to deceive.
Most time nymshifters are trolls, malcontents, peuriles, or other
negative type of posters. They are trying to avoid filtering or to
employ sock puppets. I didn't deeply analyze Jussi's aka John Adam's
aka J Adam's posts. My recollection is that he would switch NNTP
servers over time. He didn't use more than one server at time but
simply switched away from one to use another one. Each time he switched
to a new Usenet provider, he changed his nym. I'm assuming he doesn't
understand the consequences of nymshifting. Each time he moved to a new
"house", he used a different name. Jussi is quite a bit more different
than when he changed from John Adams to J Adams.
To me, it seems perfectly innocent to use a different NAME to post via
different servers, if you want to keep track of such things.
Look at the injection node in the PATH header. If you don't fark over
the Message-ID header (by overriding the right-id token with your own
for which most such users don't have permission to use nor are such
clients coordinating with each other to ensure a unique left-id token)
then that will tell you through which server you posted. You could have
your newsreader test on the MID header (or the PATH header if your
newsreader is robust enough to test on non-overview headers) to color
code your posts based on which server they were submitted. There is no
need to be employing multiple nyms, each having their own persona rather
than a unified one, to figure out through which server you posted.

If you don't deliberately attempt to modify or override server-side
inserted headers or use an anonymizing mesh network of remailers to hide
your persona then the headers will tell you to where you posted.
 
J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

Use of the words "nymshifter" and "nym" imply, to me, that you think
this is being done to deceive.
Most time nymshifters are trolls, malcontents, peuriles, or other[/QUOTE]

Yes, if they are doing it to deceive.
negative type of posters. They are trying to avoid filtering or to
employ sock puppets. I didn't deeply analyze Jussi's aka John Adam's
aka J Adam's posts. My recollection is that he would switch NNTP
servers over time. He didn't use more than one server at time but
simply switched away from one to use another one. Each time he switched
Fair enough; people have lots of reasons other than deception for
changing servers.
to a new Usenet provider, he changed his nym. I'm assuming he doesn't
No, he changed his _name_.
understand the consequences of nymshifting. Each time he moved to a new
Assuming you mean negative consequences, I'm not sure I do either, other
than people not always realising that you're the same person - but that
doesn't have to be done to deceive.
"house", he used a different name. Jussi is quite a bit more different
than when he changed from John Adams to J Adams.


Look at the injection node in the PATH header. If you don't fark over
the Message-ID header (by overriding the right-id token with your own
for which most such users don't have permission to use nor are such
clients coordinating with each other to ensure a unique left-id token)
then that will tell you through which server you posted. You could have
your newsreader test on the MID header (or the PATH header if your
newsreader is robust enough to test on non-overview headers) to color
code your posts based on which server they were submitted. There is no
The above paragraph is pretty incomprehensible to me! Also, when people
post followups, quote, snip, quote, etc., all such information is lost
(OK, sometimes including the name too).
need to be employing multiple nyms, each having their own persona rather
than a unified one, to figure out through which server you posted.

If you don't deliberately attempt to modify or override server-side
inserted headers or use an anonymizing mesh network of remailers to hide
your persona then the headers will tell you to where you posted.
Unless quoted and snipped a few times.

I suppose, basically, I find that when someone starts using phrases such
as nym, nymshifter/ing, sock puppet, and so on, I usually end up with a
more negative impression of the person using them than of the person
being accused. This may be my problem, of course.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I don't even use words like 'environment'. People live in /the world/. The
'environment' is the kind of place where people wear 'apparel' instead of
clothes. - Billy Connolly, in Radio Times, 14-20 February 2009
 
V

VanguardLH

J. P. Gilliver (John) said:
No, he changed his _name_.
You don't know what "nym" means? Comes from pseudoNYM, not from
anoNYMous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudonym

Some users consider the comment field alone (usually a name) as the
[pseudo]nym. That means a poster could, for example, keep the same name
but cycle through an indefinite series of e-mail addresses and
supposedly be considered the same poster. If you saw "John" (providing
you had a means of identifying the same John poster) using a different
e-mail address on every one of his posts, you don't think he's trying to
evade filters? By using a non-descript comment field which is useless
in searches and constantly changing the e-mail address means he is
deliberately NOT generating a trackable or historical persona.

Some consider the nym as comment+email (i.e., the e-mail field is
included). If they cycle through different comments (names) or e-mails
then those are seen as different posters. "John" <email1> is not the
same as "John" <email2>.

I have heard of few that consider the nym as only represented by the
e-mail field. That is, "John <email1> is considered the same as "Sarah"
<email1> is the same as "DocsForSale" <email1>. That's a nymshifter who
forgot to update both the comment (name) and e-mail fields but will
probably get around to it. The exception is when the e-mail field is a
bogus value that is shared by many, like invalid@invalid or
(e-mail address removed) or other unimaginative and commonly used string.
Their server won't permit a blank e-mail field in the From header.

I tend towards the latter scheme but realize that *occasionally* users
do change their e-mail address; however, the suggestion is they use a
munged or invalid e-mail address to avoid spambot harvesting so they
don't really have to change it. It isn't directly tied to a real e-mail
address. There are tons of posters with different comment field values
(names) that use the same bogus but common e-mail address so you can
only differentiate them by the comment field (name).

Because I lean towards the comment+email definition of nym as how a
persona is identified in Usenet, "John Adams <email>" is different than
"J Adams <email>" as is "Jussi <email>". The email value was the same
but the comment field changed in the From header. Would you also
consider it the same persona for posts under "John" <email1>, "John"
<email2>, and "John" <email3>? Since you consider that the same email
string but different comment strings equate to the same persona then you
would also have to equate different email strings with the same comment
as the same persona. Twould be difficult to define persona based on
"sometimes the comment changes, sometimes the email changes, but somehow
they're the same persona" rule.

Unless there is a reason to ignore a portion of the From header, that's
what I go by. Their nym is comment+email. Hey, that's what THEY
configured their client to use and both were arbitrary and both were
specified. Both fields are how they defined their presence, not just
one.

While the OP nymshifted, it doesn't look like it was to evade
identification of a persona. It's more of a lack of deligence in
maintaining a persona.
Unless quoted and snipped a few times.
Which means somehow your post that got quoted disappeared from the
thread. Since they quoted you, your post is still in the [sub]thread.
Anyone can change anything in the quoted content in THEIR post. Seems a
rather unreliable means of identifying when someone quotes you. Someone
might reply to John Adams but in the quoted content or even in the new
content may refer to them as just Adams. Citing a poster in a reply
doesn't mean their full or exact name gets used. Hell, there are cutsy
posters that like to use lots of non-alphanum chars in their nyms.
There is no standard regarding the attribution line.

I figured you wanted to know which were YOUR posts and through which
SERVER, not where someone might use your hopefully unmodified nym in a
quoted portion of their reply.

Back to the OP, he has nymshifted. The first couple of times, the
comment field (name) didn't change much. Jussi is a far departure from
J[ohn] Adams, however. The e-mail field didn't change. Do you really
identify a persona only by the e-mail field, especially since that is
NOT what is shown in the From column shown in your newsreader?

When you look at most newsreaders and what is shown in the From column,
it typically shows just the comment field (name) from the From header.
That means the expectation when viewing a thread with lots of replies
and multiple subthreads where you see posts from John, Sarah, Mark,
Jussi, BoyToy, and WhatInAName would normally get interpreted as 6
different posters in the same thread. Not until you choose to more
deeply investigate who was posting might you see they have the same
e-mail address -- but what if that same e-mail address were a commonly
shared one, like (e-mail address removed)?
 
J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

No, he changed his _name_.
You don't know what "nym" means? Comes from pseudoNYM, not from
anoNYMous.[/QUOTE]

Where it comes from is not really relevant; when I see the word "nym"
used, I usually find that the person using it is implying (or saying
outright) something negative about someone else, especially if they also
use "nymshifter". I usually form an opinion of the accuser that is no
better than that I form of the accused; that is perhaps my problem.
[rest of LONG essay snipped.]
 
V

VanguardLH

J. P. Gilliver (John) said:
Where it comes from is not really relevant; when I see the word "nym"
used, I usually find that the person using it is implying (or saying
outright) something negative about someone else, especially if they
also use "nymshifter".
Many users don't use their given name often because it is not unique.
They use a [pseudo]nym. Sorry to disappoint you but my parents didn't
name me Vanguard[LH]. Yep, I use a nym but I've kept it the SAME for
many years. I have a nym for my Usenet identity. I do not nymSHIFT.
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

You don't know what "nym" means? Comes from pseudoNYM, not from
anoNYMous.
Where it comes from is not really relevant; when I see the word "nym"
used, I usually find that the person using it is implying (or saying
outright) something negative about someone else, especially if they also
use "nymshifter". I usually form an opinion of the accuser that is no
better than that I form of the accused; that is perhaps my problem.
[rest of LONG essay snipped.][/QUOTE]

I agree about the use of "nym" in the newsgroups; nymshyfter seems to be
always used to imply nefarious motives on the part of the shifty one.

OK, I know you and others don't care, but I *have* to do this: "nym" is
from Greek "onumos", also transliterated "onymos", since the 'u'
represents upsilon.
 
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J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

Where it comes from is not really relevant; when I see the word "nym"
used, I usually find that the person using it is implying (or saying
outright) something negative about someone else, especially if they
also use "nymshifter".
Many users don't use their given name often because it is not unique.
They use a [pseudo]nym. Sorry to disappoint you but my parents didn't
name me Vanguard[LH]. Yep, I use a nym but I've kept it the SAME for
many years. I have a nym for my Usenet identity. I do not nymSHIFT.[/QUOTE]

I give up - you're clearly not getting my point. (Yes, I know what a nym
is, and that it probably came from pseudonym.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

.... her greatest triumph to date has been doggy-paddling to each area of the
shipping forecast. - Eddie Mair (on Charlotte Green), Radio Times 13-19
October 2012
 

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