Install 64-bit Windows 7 cleanly with OEM and hardware upgrades'reactivations?


A

Ant

Hello.

I noticed 64-bit Windows 7 OEM are much cheaper than the retails in
online stores like Amazon.com. Can I buy, install, and use it on
formatted/new HDDs?

Also, I do major hardware upgrades every two or so years and was
wondering if this will affect activations in OEMs (does editions matter
and does this cause limited numbers of reactivations like in XP?)?

Thank you in advance. :)
--
"Don't step on ants... they're people too." --a quote from ANTZ movie.
/\___/\ Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
 
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S

Stan Brown

I noticed 64-bit Windows 7 OEM are much cheaper than the retails in
online stores like Amazon.com. Can I buy, install, and use it on
formatted/new HDDs?
Possibly. You don't give any details about these "OEMs", but you
want to make sure that they aren't tied to a particular brand or
model of computer unless it's the same as yours. Or are these gray-
market disks that will fail the Windows Genuine Advantage test?
Also, I do major hardware upgrades every two or so years and was
wondering if this will affect activations in OEMs (does editions matter
and does this cause limited numbers of reactivations like in XP?)?
No idea. You'd have to look at the license agreement that comes with
the disk.
 
A

Ant

Possibly. You don't give any details about these "OEMs", but you
want to make sure that they aren't tied to a particular brand or
model of computer unless it's the same as yours. Or are these gray-
market disks that will fail the Windows Genuine Advantage test?
I have no idea. I didn't know there various OEM versions that are
orderable online. Bascially, this is for my custom built computers. I am
trying to get off my very old XP Pro. SP3 machine from early 2000. :(
--
"The sun's just a big glass, we're all ants, I LOVE YOU." --"Magnified"
song by the Failure band
/\___/\ Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
 
J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

Ant said:
I have no idea. I didn't know there various OEM versions that are
orderable online. Bascially, this is for my custom built computers. I
am trying to get off my very old XP Pro. SP3 machine from early 2000. :(
Usually, unbranded OEM discs are for installation on one computer, not
transferrable, whereas retail ones - though only usable on one computer
_at a time_ - _are_ transferrable. Quite what constitutes "one computer"
is not clear: I've read recently that it is the motherboard that is
identified, but have no independent evidence of that.

I'm not sure how the branded OEM ones ("for installation on a new DELL
computer" and the like) get into the market, nor how locked to the
stated brand they are.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Everyone has always regarded any usage but his own as either barbarous or
pedantic." - Evelyn Waugh, quoted by Lynne Truss in "Eats, shoots & Leaves"
2003
 
E

Ed Cryer

Hello.

I noticed 64-bit Windows 7 OEM are much cheaper than the retails in
online stores like Amazon.com. Can I buy, install, and use it on
formatted/new HDDs?

Also, I do major hardware upgrades every two or so years and was
wondering if this will affect activations in OEMs (does editions matter
and does this cause limited numbers of reactivations like in XP?)?

Thank you in advance. :)
OEM Windows can be very dodgy in my experience.
On a Packard Bell machine you had to tattoo new HDs with a system that
was about as incomprehensible as it was long-winded.
On my current Acer I restored the C drive from a third-party backup
after a couple of weeks, and that provided great trouble with the
installation of SP1.

Beware and be wary! And if those two mean the same, then be double careful.

Ed
 
P

Paul

Ant said:
I have no idea. I didn't know there various OEM versions that are
orderable online. Bascially, this is for my custom built computers. I am
trying to get off my very old XP Pro. SP3 machine from early 2000. :(
Unbranded OEMs are used by "System Builders", that guy in your neighborhood
who builds computers locally.

When you install that disc and activate it, the disc is tied to that
machine. That's why the price is low, because in theory, you can't
reuse it.

If you change the hardware significantly, by upgrading, it's pretty
hard for Microsoft to tell you're not installing the same software
on two computers. An example of how the scheme works, is here.

http://aumha.org/win5/a/wpa.htm

And that's why Activation is present, to try to sort out tiny changes
to hardware (all hardware same, amount of RAM doubles), to major
ones (onboard NIC MAC address changes, might be entirely different
computer).

A retail version of the software, leaves no doubts. You're free to
upgrade your machine. But again, if two machines show up using the
same license key, on Windows Update or otherwise, Microsoft has the
option to do what it pleases.

And if the software has any "call home" capability, with a high
enough frequency of calling home, that can catch duplication as
well.

Branded OEM, the content that comes with Dell, HP, Acer, can use
various additional schemes. On the one hand, Activation may be
unnecessary, as it's automated. (When you restore from the recovery
partition, there is nothing to do.) But then, some additional checks
must be in place, like the OS checks the BIOS string on each start,
such that taking your Dell and putting an Asus motherboard in it,
is going to cause problems. And as Ed mentioned, in the past they
also had a scheme for tattooing the hard drive. In some instances,
on those older machines, the media accompanying the machine was
an actual installer CD, so fairly close to being useful. In other
cases, what's provided is just an image of something suited for
restoring to the machine, which means you may be missing the
ability to use certain features you might have had, with real
installation media.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BIOS

"Some BIOSes contain a "SLIC" (software licensing description table),
a digital signature placed inside the BIOS by the manufacturer, for
example Dell. This SLIC is inserted in the ACPI table and contains
no active code. Computer manufacturers that distribute OEM versions
of Microsoft Windows and Microsoft application software can use the
SLIC to authenticate licensing to the OEM Windows Installation disk
and/or system recovery disc containing Windows software. Systems
having a SLIC can be preactivated with an OEM product key, and they
verify an XML formatted OEM certificate against the SLIC in the BIOS
as a means of self-activating (see System Locked Preinstallation).
If a user performs a fresh install of Windows, they will need to have
possession of both the OEM key and the digital certificate for their
SLIC in order to bypass activation; in practice this is extremely
unlikely and hence the only real way this can be achieved is if the
user performs a restore using a pre-customised image provided by the OEM."

On my WinXP machine (this one), I bought an unbranded (system builder)
OEM disc. I changed the motherboard, CPU, RAM amount, over time, and
the motherboard change required Activation to be repeated again.
No phone call was required, and I was able to do it over the Internet.
And one reason it worked, was there was a claim at the time that the
rules had been loosened a tiny bit. Otherwise, the activation
might have triggered a need for the phone call. Sufficient time
had passed since the original installation, to not trigger any
time related trigger. (If you OEM install on Tuesday with one NIC MAC
address, and reinstall on Wednesday with a different NIC MAC address,
that would be enough to trip a time trigger when both are activated.
Too close together.)

You can spend a lot of time tracing down all the options available now.

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/02/11/1735210/Anti-Piracy-Windows-7-Update-Phones-Home-Quarterly

Dell gets their branded OEM license, for less than you'll pau
for your System Builder unbranded license. But for people
who upgrade hardware, they're equally crappy options. The SLIC check
may not stop a motherboard upgrade on the unbranded install, but
the motherboard identity still counts as an "item" in the voting
scheme for activation. So you still might end up having to do
phone activation, and explain you're "repairing a hardware failure
by using a new, different motherboard brand". And that's a bit
harder to explain, if you went from LGA775, DDR2, Core2 to
LGA1366, DDR3, i7. That's no longer a "repair". And there is
no way for Microsoft to know "you're using the same computer
case for the build", as if that made it the same computer :)

Paul
 
S

Stephen

Hello.

I noticed 64-bit Windows 7 OEM are much cheaper than the retails in
online stores like Amazon.com. Can I buy, install, and use it on
formatted/new HDDs?

Also, I do major hardware upgrades every two or so years and was
wondering if this will affect activations in OEMs (does editions matter
and does this cause limited numbers of reactivations like in XP?)?

Thank you in advance. :)
It installs & activates just like the retail version. Main difference
is there is no tech support from Microsoft with the OEM versions, the
installer must provide the tech support. The license says it's only to
be installed on one computer, just like the OEM XP discs.
 
A

Ant

Unbranded OEMs are used by "System Builders", that guy in your neighborhood
who builds computers locally.
This is what I am going to do with my frequent hardware upgrades (big
ones every two years or so).

When you install that disc and activate it, the disc is tied to that
machine. That's why the price is low, because in theory, you can't
reuse it.
....

OK, so OEM is no good for me then. I will have to buy retail then. I was
told that retail has limitations of five online reacativations and then
requires phone activations? Is that true?

Ugh, DRM is such a pain in the butt. :(
--
"Don't step on ants... they're people too." --a quote from ANTZ movie.
/\___/\ Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is/was listening to a song on this computer: MessanyRecordings -
Kr1z - Forever (NM Radio RMX) (ID: 455685)
 
A

Ant

It installs& activates just like the retail version. Main difference
is there is no tech support from Microsoft with the OEM versions, the
installer must provide the tech support. The license says it's only to
be installed on one computer, just like the OEM XP discs.
Ah. What about reactivations with changing/upgrading hardwares? It seems
like OEM restricts to one motherboard/mobo. forever?

I don't need MS' technical/tech. support. I never used it in the past. I
always used the Internet like the newsgroups, forums, public chats,
friends, etc.
--
"An ant can do more than an ox that is lying down." --unknown
/\___/\ Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is/was listening to a song on this computer: MessanyRecordings - NM
- Trance Mix (ID: 454315)
 
C

Char Jackson

...

OK, so OEM is no good for me then. I will have to buy retail then.
I certainly don't read it that way, but if you do you can still save
some money by buying Upgrade versions rather than full Retail.
Ugh, DRM is such a pain in the butt. :(
That's why some of us simply disable it.
 
P

Paul

Ant said:
Ah. What about reactivations with changing/upgrading hardwares? It seems
like OEM restricts to one motherboard/mobo. forever?

I don't need MS' technical/tech. support. I never used it in the past. I
always used the Internet like the newsgroups, forums, public chats,
friends, etc.
When I did that on WinXP, it didn't require a phone call. The motherboard
change caused me to need to activate again. The dialog that popped up,
said I had 72 hours to resolve the activation issue. Activating via the
network was sufficient in that case. It had been a reasonably long time
since the original installation, and perhaps that counts for a bit.

At the time I did that upgrade, some things I was reading, were telling
me there would be a phone call involved. And then I read, that since WinXP
was getting near end of life, the phone call option had dropped back to
a network activation. And that's what happened to me. No need to tell
them a sad story about how my motherboard broke, and I needed to install
a new one (the motherboard did actually have a bug in it, which was
part of the reason for getting another one - the motherboard hates a
certain kind of PCI video capture chip, the BT878).

The only Windows 7 I have here, came on a laptop, so I have no experience
playing upgrade games with unbranded OEM Win7 and new motherboards etc.

Paul
 
A

Ant

I certainly don't read it that way, but if you do you can still save
some money by buying Upgrade versions rather than full Retail.
Um, doesn't upgrade versions require older Windows versions without
using the tricks (e.g., double installs) on newly formatted/new HDDs?

That's why some of us simply disable it.
How for 64-bit W7 legally?
--
"Imagine what it would be like to dive into a pool of army ants? You
would be nothing but bone in a matter of seconds. If you're not up to
that, just imagine putting your hand in a jar of them. It would have to
be labeled corrosive or something." --Zhan Huan Zhou
/\___/\ Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
 
C

Char Jackson

Um, doesn't upgrade versions require older Windows versions without
using the tricks (e.g., double installs) on newly formatted/new HDDs?
Upgrade versions don't require an existing Windows installation,
AFAIK. The "tricks" you mention work fine.
How for 64-bit W7 legally?
Legally? I don't know and it's not something I worry about. My media
server, for example, has Windows 7 Ultimate on it. While this copy of
Windows came with a valid key, I never installed it or activated the
installation, choosing instead to see what would happen if I used one
of several utilities floating around that removes activation. It works
perfectly, and I don't have to wonder if a hardware change will
trigger a reactivation.
 
C

Curious F

Upgrade versions don't require an existing Windows installation,
AFAIK. The "tricks" you mention work fine.
Personal experience 2 days ago.

I bought the windows 7 promotional upgrade when windows 7 was released
in 2009

I used it to upgrade my one daughters vista.

The small form factor Vista machine died ( motherboard) a month ago.

I used this same DVD on my other daughters computer with win xp.
I DELETED win XP and did a fresh install with the upgrade windows 7
and it got activated automatically

F
 
A

Ant

Personal experience 2 days ago.

I bought the windows 7 promotional upgrade when windows 7 was released
in 2009
Do they still sell these?

I used it to upgrade my one daughters vista.

The small form factor Vista machine died ( motherboard) a month ago.

I used this same DVD on my other daughters computer with win xp.
I DELETED win XP and did a fresh install with the upgrade windows 7
and it got activated automatically
Ah cool. Yeah, but that was two activations. What happens after five
activations with different motherboards? :D
--
"Only two great groups of animals, men and ants, indulge in highly
organized mass warfare." --Charles H. Maskins
/\___/\ Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
 
C

Curious F

Ant said:
Do they still sell these?
These upgrades of windows 7 were sold by Microsoft a few months BEFORE
release of Windows 7 for only a few months. We had to preorder with stores
like Best Buy.

They sold in the USA for 25 dollars and in Canada about 35 dollars.

It was a marketing plan by Microsoft.

I only bought one from Future Shop (Canada) and tried it on
my XP without activation.

I tried the upgrade with both 32 bit and 64 bit versions just to see the
difference.
Both DVDs were provided with the package. Since 64 bit was larger install
and had more confusing directory I have stuck with 32 bit for all future
win 7 installations.

F



F
 
C

Curious F

I tried the upgrade with both 32 bit and 64 bit versions just to see the
difference.
Both DVDs were provided with the package. Since 64 bit was larger install
and had more confusing directory I have stuck with 32 bit for all future
win 7 installations.

F

I failed to mention that once Windows 7 was released I purchased a full
32 OEM
version from the computer shop that had built by computer. I am still
using that
computer. IntelE8400 with 4 gig ram

I have used this DVD to "downgrade" two 64 bit laptops to 32 bit laptops
by doing a
fresh installation and doing telephone activation with Microsoft
(computer voice)

F
 
R

R. C. White

Hi, Ant.
I was told that retail has limitations of five online reacativations and
then requires phone activations? Is that true?
No.

With the full retail license, you can install on "the same computer" an
unlimited number of times. (See other discussions for definitions of "the
same computer".) And you can reinstall on any number of different
computers, so long as you UNinstall all previous installations beforehand.
(They even allow a slight overlap in time, so that you can install on the
new computer before you remove it from the old machine, giving you time to
migrate apps and data.) Also, of course, there is the 120-day major
loophole: You can activate online if it has been more than 120 days since
your last activation of the same Product Key.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2011 (Build 15.4.3538.0513) in Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1


"Ant" wrote in message

Unbranded OEMs are used by "System Builders", that guy in your
neighborhood
who builds computers locally.
This is what I am going to do with my frequent hardware upgrades (big
ones every two years or so).

When you install that disc and activate it, the disc is tied to that
machine. That's why the price is low, because in theory, you can't
reuse it.
....

OK, so OEM is no good for me then. I will have to buy retail then. I was
told that retail has limitations of five online reacativations and then
requires phone activations? Is that true?

Ugh, DRM is such a pain in the butt. :(
--
 
J

Joe Morris

Curious F said:
I tried the upgrade with both 32 bit and 64 bit versions just to see the
difference.
Both DVDs were provided with the package. Since 64 bit was larger install
and had more confusing directory I have stuck with 32 bit for all future
win 7 installations.
Some people need the 64-bit systems; some don't.

One use case for using the 64-bit systems is where the system needs more
than ~3.5 GB of RAM, perhaps for running multiple virtual machines or doing
complex video or animation work. As has been discussed repeatedly in USENET
postings, a 32-bit architecture hits the top of its address space at 2^32,
or 4 GB, and the high quarter- to half-gig of the address space is
conscripted for other uses.

For some users the biggest downside to the 64-bit systems - aside from disk
space requirements and the need for 64-bit drivers - is the loss of support
for 16-bit graphic and fullscreen character-mode applications. (Back in
early 2009 I ran a demo of 32-bit Vista and Windows 7 to the IT staff at my
POE, running, among other applications, the original VisiCalc. It won't run
on 64-bit Win7 (or, I assume, 64-bit Vista).

Another downside of 64-bit systems is the size of the patches, since many of
them need to update both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the affected
files. The installer for Windows 7 Service Pack 1 is ~900 MB (one file!)
and requires ~10 GB of available disk space to install, although it gives
back all but 540 MB at the end.

Sigh...about 45 years ago I was hired to be the sysprog for a computer
center that had two machines, each of which had the equivalent of 128KB
memory...the newer machine had a memory speed of one microsecond for each
byte. And now an entry-level machine measures its memory capacity in
gigabytes and its speed in GHz.

Joe
 
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G

Gene E. Bloch

And now an entry-level machine measures its memory capacity in
gigabytes and its speed in GHz.
Even a cell phone does that :)

The first machine I worked on had a cycle time of one microsecond. The
later model upped the speed to a cycle time of half a microsecond. Like
Turbo, man!

(IBM 7090 & 7094, if you're wondering.)
 

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