Imaging a Windows 7 HD

[Ken]

When you buy a ready made computer with Win 7 on it, there are often
several partitions on the HD. Often there is a restoration partition
that will allow you to restore the computer to the state it was when
purchased. There is also a partition called SYSTEM that is used for
starting the OS. There is also a partition called BOOT where the OS and
all other files are stored for the programs installed on the hard drive.

I know that making an image of the BOOT partition captures all files
since the last image was made, so that is certainly one that you would
want to re-image if you hadn't made an image in some time. The
restoration partition should not have changed since it is what it was
when you bought the computer. My question deals with the SYSTEM
partition: Assuming that another OS has NOT been added to the HD, does
the SYSTEM partition data ever change due to updates such as those from
Microsoft? In other words, is there any need to re-image the SYSTEM
partition like there would be for the BOOT partition on a Win 7 computer??

Below is an article about Win 7 partitions:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-vista/What-are-system-partitions-and-boot-partitions

 

[GlowingBlueMist]

When you buy a ready made computer with Win 7 on it, there are often
several partitions on the HD. Often there is a restoration partition
that will allow you to restore the computer to the state it was when
purchased. There is also a partition called SYSTEM that is used for
starting the OS. There is also a partition called BOOT where the OS and
all other files are stored for the programs installed on the hard drive.

I know that making an image of the BOOT partition captures all files
since the last image was made, so that is certainly one that you would
want to re-image if you hadn't made an image in some time. The
restoration partition should not have changed since it is what it was
when you bought the computer. My question deals with the SYSTEM
partition: Assuming that another OS has NOT been added to the HD, does
the SYSTEM partition data ever change due to updates such as those from
Microsoft? In other words, is there any need to re-image the SYSTEM
partition like there would be for the BOOT partition on a Win 7 computer??

Below is an article about Win 7 partitions:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-vista/What-are-system-partitions-and-boot-partitions

My answer would be to have an image of it just in case the drive itself
goes bad. Power spikes or a program that forces you to power cycle it
since the PC is locked up could also cause a problem, however remotely.

Since I'm basically lazy I make an image copy of the entire boot disk
which includes any partitions. That way when (and they all fail sooner
or later) the drive goes bad I can replace it and use the backup image
to restore things back. Other backups take care of any data drives
using Acronis.

 

[Char Jackson]

My answer would be to have an image of it just in case the drive itself
goes bad. Power spikes or a program that forces you to power cycle it
since the PC is locked up could also cause a problem, however remotely.

Since I'm basically lazy I make an image copy of the entire boot disk
which includes any partitions. That way when (and they all fail sooner
or later) the drive goes bad I can replace it and use the backup image
to restore things back. Other backups take care of any data drives
using Acronis.

I take the same approach and make an image of the entire drive rather
than just one or more partitions.

 

[Paul]

When you buy a ready made computer with Win 7 on it, there are often
several partitions on the HD. Often there is a restoration partition
that will allow you to restore the computer to the state it was when
purchased. There is also a partition called SYSTEM that is used for
starting the OS. There is also a partition called BOOT where the OS and
all other files are stored for the programs installed on the hard drive.

I know that making an image of the BOOT partition captures all files
since the last image was made, so that is certainly one that you would
want to re-image if you hadn't made an image in some time. The
restoration partition should not have changed since it is what it was
when you bought the computer. My question deals with the SYSTEM
partition: Assuming that another OS has NOT been added to the HD, does
the SYSTEM partition data ever change due to updates such as those from
Microsoft? In other words, is there any need to re-image the SYSTEM
partition like there would be for the BOOT partition on a Win 7 computer??

Below is an article about Win 7 partitions:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-vista/What-are-system-partitions-and-boot-partitions

I image C: and the small SYSTEM RESERVED partition.

That makes it easy to restore to a bootable system later.

I use the System Image option, offered by Windows 7.

And I do that more often, than I might do the "data"
partition, which is the largest partition on the drive.

Paul

 

[Jeff Layman]

I take the same approach and make an image of the entire drive rather
than just one or more partitions.

I do the same. I've thought about doing separate images for the D:
drive (restoration partition) and for the System + C: drive partitions.
But I am uncertain as to how I would get these two completely separate
images onto a single new disk so that it would appear to be exactly the
same as the original disk it was replacing. There is no problem if it
is just a single image of D: + System + C:, of course.

 

[Wolf K]

On 19/12/2011 14:48, Char Jackson wrote: [...]

I've thought about doing separate images for the D: drive
(restoration partition) and for the System + C: drive partitions. But I
am uncertain as to how I would get these two completely separate images
onto a single new disk so that it would appear to be exactly the same as
the original disk it was replacing. There is no problem if it is just a
single image of D: + System + C:, of course.

Er, in Windows, the system partition is always C:. If you dual boot,
each OS sees its own system partition as C:, and the other one's as D:
(or E: whatever).

You can image the whole drive to any drive that is at least as large as
the physical drive. By "image". I mean track-by-track, sector-by-sector,
including empty sectors and of course the MBR (which resides on a track
not normally seen by the OS.) Imaging software should be able to image
any partition or combination of partitions, as specified by you.

Because of the way Windows assigns drive letters, if you dual boot and
have one or more common/joint data partitions, they will be assigned
different letters by each OS, so it's best to ensure that each OS uses
the same letters for those (use the Disk Management applet).

HTH
Wolf K.

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

On 19/12/2011 14:48, Char Jackson wrote: [...]

I've thought about doing separate images for the D: drive
(restoration partition) and for the System + C: drive partitions.
But I
am uncertain as to how I would get these two completely separate
images
onto a single new disk so that it would appear to be exactly the
same as
the original disk it was replacing. There is no problem if it is
just a
single image of D: + System + C:, of course.

Er, in Windows, the system partition is always C:. If you dual boot,
each OS sees its own system partition as C:, and the other one's as
D: (or E: whatever).

In Windows 7 by default, there is a separate system partition that is
not given a drive letter. My Windows 7 system is currently running
Windows 8 developer preview so I can't say for sure, but in Windows 8
it is called "System Reserved", and is listed as System, Active,
Primary Partition. The C: partition is listed as Boot, Page File,
Crash Dump, Primary Partition.

 

[Char Jackson]

I do the same. I've thought about doing separate images for the D:
drive (restoration partition) and for the System + C: drive partitions.
But I am uncertain as to how I would get these two completely separate
images onto a single new disk so that it would appear to be exactly the
same as the original disk it was replacing. There is no problem if it
is just a single image of D: + System + C:, of course.

I agree, a single image that includes the entire disk is easier, and
I'm basically lazy, so that's why I do it that way.

However, the imaging program should give you the option of restoring
an image to part of a drive rather than the entire drive, so restoring
a single partition shouldn't be problematic in itself. I'm primarily
familiar with Acronis True Image, where it's easy to restore the
partitions one at a time and in any order. Being the lazy sod that I
am, I don't want to deal with the complexity of managing backups at
the partition level and simply find it easier to deal with them at the
disk level.

 

[Char Jackson]

On 19/12/2011 14:48, Char Jackson wrote: [...]

I've thought about doing separate images for the D: drive
(restoration partition) and for the System + C: drive partitions. But I
am uncertain as to how I would get these two completely separate images
onto a single new disk so that it would appear to be exactly the same as
the original disk it was replacing. There is no problem if it is just a
single image of D: + System + C:, of course.

Er, in Windows, the system partition is always C:.

Only if, by "always C:", you mean any drive letter that was available
during initial installation. For many years I used W: as my Windows
drive (throughout my Win 95-98SE era) and went through a period after
that where Windows was on E:.

If you dual boot, each OS sees its own system partition as C:, and
the other one's as D: (or E: whatever).

I don't think this is about dual booting, is it? I thought the OP was
simply asking about disk imaging in general.

You can image the whole drive to any drive that is at least as large as
the physical drive. By "image". I mean track-by-track, sector-by-sector,
including empty sectors and of course the MBR (which resides on a track
not normally seen by the OS.) Imaging software should be able to image
any partition or combination of partitions, as specified by you.

Most people will use the default settings when creating a system
image, which means NOT doing a sector by sector backup but rather just
backing up the actual data, usually with some level of compression to
make the backup even smaller.

Sector level backups are only important or interesting when you're
dealing with a failed drive and need to attempt extreme data
restoration, for example. Normal everyday image backups won't need the
empty sectors backed up.

 

[Zaidy036]

Why would one want to keep the Restore Partition when that returns the
PC to the
"as delivered" condition and not to the "as is now condition"?

Make a complete HD image, remove the Restore partition, expand another
partition(s) into the space now not being used, and then make a new
full, NOT incremental, image and then delete the the first image.

Now all HD space is available for your use and you are protected with an
image.

 

[Ken]

I do the same. I've thought about doing separate images for the D: drive
(restoration partition) and for the System + C: drive partitions. But I
am uncertain as to how I would get these two completely separate images
onto a single new disk so that it would appear to be exactly the same as
the original disk it was replacing. There is no problem if it is just a
single image of D: + System + C:, of course.

A little more information about why I asked the question the way I did:
I use "Image For DOS." It creates a bootable CD that allows the
imaging of the complete HD into one image file, or imaging of individual
partitions with individual image files. The first time I ran the
program, I created individual image files of each of the partitions. I
did this so that if I needed to restore a single partition I did not
need to restore ALL the partitions. If a single image file was created,
you would need to restore some partitions such as the restoration
partition that had NOT changed. This of course would take more time
than necessary. The other advantage to individual image files is that
you could update the boot partition at any time you thought necessary
and leave the other partition image files alone.

Also others mentioned the fact that an image compresses the image file
to about 60% of the size the data occupied on the HD. For instance a
partition of 300GB with 100GB of data would be compressed to about a
60GB image file.

Now I know the RESTORATION partition does NOT change regardless of what
you do to the BOOT partition with regard to software. I know also that
the SYSTEM partition changes if you want to dual boot and add another
partition. What I do NOT know is if the SYSTEM partition is ever
affected by Microsoft updates such as drivers? Does anyone know the
answer to this question??

 

[Paul]

Why would one want to keep the Restore Partition when that returns the
PC to the
"as delivered" condition and not to the "as is now condition"?

Make a complete HD image, remove the Restore partition, expand another
partition(s) into the space now not being used, and then make a new
full, NOT incremental, image and then delete the the first image.

Now all HD space is available for your use and you are protected with an
image.

The restore partition, is what you use when you give the machine to
someone else, and you're finished with it.

Paul

 

[Char Jackson]

The restore partition, is what you use when you give the machine to
someone else, and you're finished with it.

Agreed, and in addition to that I deal with people on a regular basis
who have screwed up their systems so badly that they actually want me
to restore it to factory status rather than spend time repairing it.
They're willing to pay me, so I agree to do it. Of course, for an
extra fee I'll also preserve and restore their documents, photos,
music, videos, etc.

 

[Roy Smith]

Why would one want to keep the Restore Partition when that returns the
PC to the
"as delivered" condition and not to the "as is now condition"?

Make a complete HD image, remove the Restore partition, expand another
partition(s) into the space now not being used, and then make a new
full, NOT incremental, image and then delete the the first image.

Now all HD space is available for your use and you are protected with an
image.

But before doing that make a restore DVD so that you can restore the PC
to factory settings when you sell or donate your PC. Most computer
manufacturers offer some way to do this.


--

Roy Smith
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit
Thunderbird 8.0
Monday, December 19, 2011 4:34:31 PM

 

[Roy Smith]

The restore partition, is what you use when you give the machine to
someone else, and you're finished with it.

And it's also for those who don't make backups to restore the OS to a
new hard drive.


--

Roy Smith
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit
Thunderbird 8.0
Monday, December 19, 2011 4:35:49 PM

 

[Roy Smith]

A little more information about why I asked the question the way I did:
I use "Image For DOS." It creates a bootable CD that allows the
imaging of the complete HD into one image file, or imaging of individual
partitions with individual image files. The first time I ran the
program, I created individual image files of each of the partitions. I
did this so that if I needed to restore a single partition I did not
need to restore ALL the partitions. If a single image file was created,
you would need to restore some partitions such as the restoration
partition that had NOT changed. This of course would take more time
than necessary. The other advantage to individual image files is that
you could update the boot partition at any time you thought necessary
and leave the other partition image files alone.

I use Acronis True Image Home and I always do a full drive image.
Thought on the occasion that I do have to do a restore, it gives me the
option to choose which partitions to restore to the drive.

Now I know the RESTORATION partition does NOT change regardless of what
you do to the BOOT partition with regard to software. I know also that
the SYSTEM partition changes if you want to dual boot and add another
partition. What I do NOT know is if the SYSTEM partition is ever
affected by Microsoft updates such as drivers? Does anyone know the
answer to this question??

I don't know for certain, but I would think that any drivers would be on
the OS partition and not in the BOOT partition. But then again I could
be wrong...

Now I do know that you can install Windows 7 and not have a BOOT
partition. This can be done during the initial setup when the installer
asks you where to install Windows. Use the advanced disk options and
create a partition that uses the entire drive, then format it before
allowing the installer to continue with the installation. By doing this
it doesn't allow the installer to create a BOOT partition (because
there's no room) and forces it to place all the boot files in a folder
on your C: drive.

I've done this a couple of times before on two other PCs that I have so
I know it works and doesn't have any ill effects.


--

Roy Smith
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit
Thunderbird 8.0
Monday, December 19, 2011 4:59:48 PM

 

[Wolf K]

On 19/12/2011 14:48, Char Jackson wrote: [...]

I've thought about doing separate images for the D: drive
(restoration partition) and for the System + C: drive partitions.
But I
am uncertain as to how I would get these two completely separate
images
onto a single new disk so that it would appear to be exactly the
same as
the original disk it was replacing. There is no problem if it is
just a
single image of D: + System + C:, of course.

Er, in Windows, the system partition is always C:. If you dual boot,
each OS sees its own system partition as C:, and the other one's as
D: (or E: whatever).

In Windows 7 by default, there is a separate system partition that is
not given a drive letter. My Windows 7 system is currently running
Windows 8 developer preview so I can't say for sure, but in Windows 8
it is called "System Reserved", and is listed as System, Active,
Primary Partition. The C: partition is listed as Boot, Page File,
Crash Dump, Primary Partition.

Not on this machine, on which I installed Win7 on its own physical disk.

It may be that what you see is a partition created by the computer's
manufacturer to enable system repair/maintenance tasks that bypass
Windows or don't use its utilities.

HTH
Wolf K.

 

[Char Jackson]

On 19/12/2011 1:08 PM, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 19/12/2011 14:48, Char Jackson wrote:
[...]

I've thought about doing separate images for the D: drive
(restoration partition) and for the System + C: drive partitions.
But I
am uncertain as to how I would get these two completely separate
images
onto a single new disk so that it would appear to be exactly the
same as
the original disk it was replacing. There is no problem if it is
just a
single image of D: + System + C:, of course.


Er, in Windows, the system partition is always C:. If you dual boot,
each OS sees its own system partition as C:, and the other one's as
D: (or E: whatever).

In Windows 7 by default, there is a separate system partition that is
not given a drive letter. My Windows 7 system is currently running
Windows 8 developer preview so I can't say for sure, but in Windows 8
it is called "System Reserved", and is listed as System, Active,
Primary Partition. The C: partition is listed as Boot, Page File,
Crash Dump, Primary Partition.

Not on this machine, on which I installed Win7 on its own physical disk.

Well, he did say "by default".

It may be that what you see is a partition created by the computer's
manufacturer to enable system repair/maintenance tasks that bypass
Windows or don't use its utilities.

No, it's the default configuration you see when you install to a bare
drive, I believe. If you don't have it, it's because you didn't use
the defaults.

 

[Wolf K]

On 19/12/2011 1:08 PM, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 19/12/2011 14:48, Char Jackson wrote:
[...]

I've thought about doing separate images for the D: drive
(restoration partition) and for the System + C: drive partitions.
But I
am uncertain as to how I would get these two completely separate
images
onto a single new disk so that it would appear to be exactly the
same as
the original disk it was replacing. There is no problem if it is
just a
single image of D: + System + C:, of course.


Er, in Windows, the system partition is always C:. If you dual boot,
each OS sees its own system partition as C:, and the other one's as
D: (or E: whatever).


In Windows 7 by default, there is a separate system partition that is
not given a drive letter. My Windows 7 system is currently running
Windows 8 developer preview so I can't say for sure, but in Windows 8
it is called "System Reserved", and is listed as System, Active,
Primary Partition. The C: partition is listed as Boot, Page File,
Crash Dump, Primary Partition.

Not on this machine, on which I installed Win7 on its own physical disk.

Well, he did say "by default".

It may be that what you see is a partition created by the computer's
manufacturer to enable system repair/maintenance tasks that bypass
Windows or don't use its utilities.

No, it's the default configuration you see when you install to a bare
drive, I believe. If you don't have it, it's because you didn't use
the defaults.

Or, but I did. it was a bare drive, and I just let the W7 installer do
its thing. The only choice I exercised was to partition the disk.
There's no unmarked partition on any of the three drives in this box.

It's a puzzlement.

NB: this was an OEM version of Win7 Pro 64 bit, not a retail version.
Maybe that's the difference. (As a builder of my own computers, I guess
I count as an OEM. ;-o )

Wolf K.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

On 19/12/2011 1:08 PM, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 19/12/2011 14:48, Char Jackson wrote:
[...]

I've thought about doing separate images for the D: drive
(restoration partition) and for the System + C: drive partitions.
But I
am uncertain as to how I would get these two completely separate
images
onto a single new disk so that it would appear to be exactly the
same as
the original disk it was replacing. There is no problem if it is
just a
single image of D: + System + C:, of course.


Er, in Windows, the system partition is always C:. If you dual boot,
each OS sees its own system partition as C:, and the other one's as
D: (or E: whatever).


In Windows 7 by default, there is a separate system partition that is
not given a drive letter. My Windows 7 system is currently running
Windows 8 developer preview so I can't say for sure, but in Windows 8
it is called "System Reserved", and is listed as System, Active,
Primary Partition. The C: partition is listed as Boot, Page File,
Crash Dump, Primary Partition.

Not on this machine, on which I installed Win7 on its own physical disk.

Well, he did say "by default".

No, it's the default configuration you see when you install to a bare
drive, I believe. If you don't have it, it's because you didn't use
the defaults.

I installed W7 on a bare drive on this computer and I got the 100MB
unnamed[1] partition without even trying.

[1] Actually it has this name: "System Reserved". It is, however,
unlettered, like many of my friends.