FSB no more?? W7 archititure

[thedrunk]

Ok im still not shure on the archititure that W7 uses, I knwo the i7 core and ddr3 dont use FSB ( I belive that si so) wel that increases system performance some to a certian degree mroe so for overclockers. my concern is if the hardware doesnt use a FSB what abotu W7 is its capabilities still limited to the FSB ( yes I am unshure about all this I read some where about the FSB being no more with new cores I belive it was while reaserching the i7 and ddr3 )

ok so if W7 dont reley on FSB like xp and vista have thier limitations then what potentional can one unlock with the fact there si no FSB ? I mean if one can get a network card with its own CPu and ram along with vid cards with no FSB and designate certian faction of system dedicated to certian amounts of transferr then one can fully take advantage of 18MBS down loads and 2 to 5 MBS uploads, vs. the system only able to handle ( max ive seen personally) 400Kbs on a download or 52Kbs to 89Kbs uploads.

If im nto making sence just slap me and ask me to define this si rushing through my head for my build and my time line for reaserch is comming to a close I have ot decide on parts before july 20th so I can put in my order and have them arive once my cash from school arrives.........

 

[Thrax]

You're really not making any sense.

The Core i7, Athlon 64, Phenom and Phenom II do not have an FSB because they have memory controllers directly on the CPU. The front side bus was previously necessary to ferry data between the CPU and the memory controller on the northbridge.

The operating system has nothing to do with the FSB, or a lack thereof, nor do any of the devices in your system outside the DRAM, chipset and CPU.

 

[clifford_cooley]

Internet connection speed is bottle necked from ISP Rates, Modem and Network Speeds. The FSB really doesnt have anything to do with internet traffic.

 

[thedrunk]

Ok guys let me try to explain what i ment better, sorry I have too many ideas jumping through a pee hole sized brain and it gets jumbbled when trying to communicate.

Ok software can only operate as fast as hardware, why up intill i7 platform gaming has been preferred on AMD based boards. the FSB is still there its just dedicated Intell is doing what AMD has been for a couple years. now to conclude and give more of a idea as to what i am wondering...

on my 3.2Ghz the fsb is 800Mhz on my 2.7 core two duo the fsb is 1033, I can tell a significant diffrance between stuffs I do. with the way I understand the new fsb ( no fsb) is that there is one its just not a single one there are different layers.
now I also understand that your software only runs as fast as your hardware, which the requirements to use for minimume and recomended are based on hardware which the hardware has FSb limitations. its liek on my dual core 800Mhz with 3G ddr2 ram and 512Mb vid card ran a lot smoother then on my P4 2.8Ghz with a 256Mb and ddr 1G machine. but the game will only run so well no mater what machine I play it on it seems that its peek performance can be played on a P4 ht 3.0 Ghz with 1G rambus ram and a 256Mb Nvida card. now even Xp 32 bit only runs so fast its peek performance is on a P4 ht machine with 2G ram and a 256Mb Nvida card.
Vista I havent played around with much so I cant state my xp on it.
but what about W7 will it max otu at certian hardware specs or will the posibilities be unlimited based soley on what hardware you run ?????

 

[Thrax]

What you're saying still makes no sense, I'm afraid.

Intel has had faster architecture since 2006.

The FSB (or lack thereof) will not magically make anything slower or faster. That falls to the intricacies of CPU and system bus architecture.

Software recommendations are based on product performance, not on products which do or do not have an FSB.

Your gaming experience -- I couldn't really make out what you were trying to say -- can be ascribed to an engine which doesn't scale well. Some software just doesn't get better when the hardware gets better.

As has been the case with past OSes, Windows 7 will get faster as hardware gets faster, but the trend in hardware improvements is currently at a downturn until the next big generation hits in 2011. Most of the architectural improvements given to recent CPUs are untapped or are dedicated to particular tasks that most applications don't use.

Long story short: Whether or not the system has an FSB is completely irrelevant to the software and the vast majority of the hardware on your system. You're placing way, way too much importance on it as though it's some lynchpin in a system that will unlock wild system performance now that it's been removed. Today's FSBless processors still use an FSB-like frequency called the reference clock, and they still do transactions between the memory controller and the memory, just as it would in a CPU with an FSB.

 

[Kougar]

I'll chime in here... gaming benchmarks are a bit of a misnomer, because regardless of what CPU you use, once you set the game settings to as much quality as the graphics card is capable of supporting at the full resolution of the monitor, the choice of CPU will only affect FPS by a small degree.

The difference between a Phenom and a Core 2 Duo will be completely unnoticeable. CPU-centric tests using games are not using real-world settings and hardware configurations people game at... using these "benchmark" settings some benchmarks will favor AMD and others Intel, some favor cache and some favor MHz. But if you set real world settings that you game it, the only thing that's going to matter is the graphics card running the show.

The FSB hurt performance in select situations such as the Pentium D series, where each processor, the memory, and the system chipset all used the same FSB to talk to one another. But that was a limitation of the Pentium D design itself, the FSB was sufficient to meet the needs of Pentium processors. It's not really until you look at servers that use 2-4 sockets per motherboard did the FSB become a huge bottleneck. This is why Intel finally moved to using the QPI bus. And as Thrax said, it's not the FSB or QPI speed that matters when choosing software or an operating system for a desktop.

 

[thedrunk]

Thanks guys, and specially that info on the Pentium d ( which I have)

I was really unshure and am aware of the prime factor being the GPU, but I was thinking along the lines of the GPU and cpu and mobo with the fbs factor. which what I am leaving with si that it doenst make a signifiant diffferance, it boils down to the GPU in use.......


well what about a dual GPu vid card?? or a dual core dual GPU vid card I have been looking around for a good one for workhorsing and gaming but models seem to evade my search quary's

 

[Thrax]

What's your budget? I can give you the best card for the price.

 

[Kougar]

Some people may disagree with me here, but I don't recommend dual-GPU setups. I'd recommend just buying a single, more powerful GPU instead because not all games supprot multiple GPUs and multi-GPU scaling is not always that good even when the drivers do support it.

I've seen some 4850's for $75 after rebates, just use a deals site like Fatwallet, or browse Newegg a bit. If you still want a dual-GPU machine, make sure your motherboard supports it. I took a look at the board listed in your specs, I assume you meant the D945GBI? That board only has a single GPU slot so it won't support dual-GPU's.

 

[thedrunk]

Some people may disagree with me here, but I don't recommend dual-GPU setups. I'd recommend just buying a single, more powerful GPU instead because not all games supprot multiple GPUs and multi-GPU scaling is not always that good even when the drivers do support it.

I've seen some 4850's for $75 after rebates, just use a deals site like Fatwallet, or browse Newegg a bit. If you still want a dual-GPU machine, make sure your motherboard supports it. I took a look at the board listed in your specs, I assume you meant the D945GBI? That board only has a single GPU slot so it won't support dual-GPU's.

That is my old machine I will be building a new computer or mabey buying a ibuypower gaming rig till the 6 core i7 chips come out.

I ment a dual GPU on a single card also having each of those GPU a dual core. I knwo dual core GPU exsist I have a NX8400gs 256MB dual core GPU, but a dual GPU dual core I am wondering if I can get one I have set a limit of 300$ for my vid card.
and yes it is a gateway built 945GBi with only 1x PCI-Ex16 when I bought this machine I was told two PCI-Ex16 another reason I am not buying another computer from gateway........

 

[Kougar]

To be honest there are no 8400 dual-core GPUs, so I'm not sure what you're getting at there. Also, if you put a dual GPU card into your Gateway you would likely need to upgrade the power supply just to use it.

 

[thedrunk]

To be honest there are no 8400 dual-core GPUs, so I'm not sure what you're getting at there. Also, if you put a dual GPU card into your Gateway you would likely need to upgrade the power supply just to use it.

MSI NX8400GS 256MB
Dual core cell, D.O.T. tv-out / dvi out HDtv ready Pci Express

I am looking at it right now.
its nice but too small to power any thing better then a 20" at 1024x768 resulution

 

[Thrax]

Dual CoreCell "technology" is something MSI invented to reduce the complexity of its video card circuity. They combine select ICs into single parts which they claim reduces heat and improves quality.

It's pure marketing, it's not dual core, and there are no dual core GPUs.

 

[BetaMan]

...And if you were dying for a dual core GPU, you could just use SLI... of course, that's twice the price... still... *drool* two GTX 295s...

 

[thedrunk]

Ok so what would be a good vid card that one can use...

I still dont know how SLI or cross fire is better then having a single vid card....
can some one explain why I would want two vid cards running as one. I understand that it is good if you are using mid to low range vid cards but if you put the mney in to a "UBER" vid card there is no need.


Side note: I went and picked up a robotic arm server cabnit today with all the circuitery minus the arm attachment, and walked away with a socket lga 775 either dual proc or quad proc 8U rack mount server lol. gonna find some HDD's and ram and see if Ican get a W7 server going lolz

 

[BetaMan]

Ok so what would be a good vid card that one can use...

I still dont know how SLI or cross fire is better then having a single vid card....
can some one explain why I would want two vid cards running as one. I understand that it is good if you are using mid to low range vid cards but if you put the mney in to a "UBER" vid card there is no need.

Imagine a GTX 260. Now, multiply those specs by 2. *Drool* That's SLI. It combines two cards into one to make an UBER card. You might want this if you had two cards lying around. Also, think about it: if you have two great cards but only use one, then you could put them together with SLI and have a nicer card, with one monitor.

A good video card would probably fall into the GeForce 9 series. I'm using a 9400 GT right now, and I love it. You can also go up to about 9600 without breaking $150.

 

[thedrunk]

Imagine a GTX 260. Now, multiply those specs by 2. *Drool* That's SLI. It combines two cards into one to make an UBER card. You might want this if you had two cards lying around. Also, think about it: if you have two great cards but only use one, then you could put them together with SLI and have a nicer card, with one monitor.

A good video card would probably fall into the GeForce 9 series. I'm using a 9400 GT right now, and I love it. You can also go up to about 9600 without breaking $150.

Ok so we are essentially "Node"ing two video cards?
so with two vid cards can I still hook up three monitors? I want one abotu 7" for system monitoring and I liek having dual view where I have two desktops.

I am a hardware nerd but I have took past three years out fo keeping up with tech due to back injury, so I am not fully understanding the way most of this works. I want my build ot last three years till I take my second BS in computer engineering then I will build another one. I am in love with W7 for all the stuff I can do with little configuring......

I do thank this site and the creators it has giving me a refreashed erge to delv deeper in to the hardware aspect fo computers