Freeware to replicatge WinXP ability to pin a hierarchical menu tothe Windows 7 Start Menu


D

Danny D.

Is there Windows 7 freeware to pin a hierarchical menu to the Start Menu?
WinXP Example:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/98287134@N02/9210688634/lightbox/

Specifically, if you try pinning a folder of related shortcuts to the
start menu it can only be accessed as a folder, not as a menu. Is there
any way to restore the old functionality of the Start Menu?

FOR REFERENCE:
The default WinXP shortcut menus are located here:
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Start Menu\Programs\
C:\Documents and Settings\(user)\Start Menu\Programs\

On WinXP, I can easily create a shortcut menu by adding a folder
called whatever (let's call it "menu") to this hierarchy:
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Start Menu\menu\
Where "menu" is the top of a functional hierarchy of directories
which end with shortcuts to programs at the lowest level.

However, I'm having trouble replicating this on Windows 7.

On Win7, the default shortcut menus are located at:
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Startup\
C:\Users\(user)\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs
\Startup\

But, when I put a directory in those locations, that directory
does not show up as a menu in the Windows 7 Start Menu.
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Startup\menu

Q: Is there freeware that replicates the WinXP ability to pin a
hierarchical menu to the Start Menu GUI?

Note:
On Win7, I already set the Folder Options (Control Panel->Folder Options-
View tab->Display Hidden Files and folders and Show Protected Operating
System files.

Note:
The reasons for a functionally organized shortcut menu is obvious; while
the reasons for that menu being separate from the default menus are:
a. It's (much) easier to maintain & replicate a menu which is unpolluted
b. It's easier for others to see the default (cluttered) Start Menu
c. Rarely, but possibly, the additional links in the grossly polluted "All
Programs" menu come in handy (e.g., additional uninstall links, readme
links, doc links, setup links, update links, sister program links, etc.)
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5454/9379442805_d708428c5b_o.gif
 
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Z

Zaidy036

Is there Windows 7 freeware to pin a hierarchical menu to the Start Menu?
<snip>

I think you have to put the folder in Start-Programs first and then Pin
it to the Start menu
 
D

Danny D.

Is there Windows 7 freeware to pin a hierarchical menu to the Start
Menu?
WinXP Example:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/98287134@N02/9210688634/lightbox/
OOOps. I posted the wrong screenshot! Sorry.

Here is the correct screenshot:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3674/9379442769_5419507cea_o.gif

If I put a folder in the WinXP start menu, it "acts" like a menu; but if I
pin a folder on the Win7 start menu, it acts like a folder (which nobody
wants).

Q: What software makes a Start-Menu folder act like a menu in Windows 7?
 
J

John K.Eason

If I put a folder in the WinXP start menu, it "acts" like a menu;
but if I pin a folder on the Win7 start menu, it acts like a folder
(which nobody wants).

Q: What software makes a Start-Menu folder act like a menu in
Windows 7?
Drag and drop the folder on to the Start button?

Regards
John (john@jeasonNoSpam.cix.co.uk) Remove the obvious to reply...
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

VanguardLH said:
FYI, a signature is delimited by a sigdash line of --\n (dash, dash,
newline).
FYI, you forgot to mention the space: "-- " :)
 
D

Danny D.

Drag and drop the folder on to the Start button?
Hmmmm.... maybe I'm wholly missing the point, or doing something wrong, so
allow me to explain that the very first thing I tried was to pin a folder
to the Windows 7 start menu.

When I do that, this folder in the start menu simply opens up a folder
when I click on it. It's supposed to cascade into a bunch of menus (if it
has hierarchy) just like it did in Windows XP.

I even tried putting that folder in all the known start menu locations and
*then* pinning it to the start menu; but that was just wishful thinking.

It still acted like a folder and not like a menu.

Q: Did I miss something simple or important?

What's the trick to simply get Windows 7 to add an additional menu so that
I can have a menu outside the grossly polluted "All Programs" menu?
 
D

Danny D.

I think you have to put the folder in Start-Programs first and then Pin
it to the Start menu
I tried that before I even posted.
No matter *where* I put the "menu" folder,
when it gets pinned to the Windows 7 start menu,
it acts like a folder, and not like a menu.

I can't be the first person to ever want a menu outside
the grossly polluted (and constantly re-polluted) Start Menu,
so, there *must* be an existing solution to this simple problem.

But what?
 
J

John K.Eason

Hmmmm.... maybe I'm wholly missing the point, or doing something
wrong, so allow me to explain that the very first thing I tried was
to pin a folder to the Windows 7 start menu.

When I do that, this folder in the start menu simply opens up a
folder when I click on it. It's supposed to cascade into a bunch of
menus (if it has hierarchy) just like it did in Windows XP.

I even tried putting that folder in all the known start menu
locations and *then* pinning it to the start menu; but that was
just wishful thinking.

It still acted like a folder and not like a menu.

Q: Did I miss something simple or important?

What's the trick to simply get Windows 7 to add an additional menu
so that I can have a menu outside the grossly polluted "All
Programs" menu?
Hmm.. indeed. It looks as if I did it from within the Start Menu when running
Classic Shell because, as you say, it just pins the folder to the Start Menu if I
shut down Classic Shell.

In fact with Classic Menu you can drag a folder directly onto the Start Orb, it
pops up the Start Menu, and you can drop the shortcut where you like on it. You
then end up with a folder which expands to show the contents just like the Programs
menu (and WinXP).

Apologies for the red herring. :^(

Regards
John (john@jeasonNoSpam.cix.co.uk) Remove the obvious to reply...
 
E

Ed Cryer

Danny said:
Is there Windows 7 freeware to pin a hierarchical menu to the Start Menu?
WinXP Example:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/98287134@N02/9210688634/lightbox/

Specifically, if you try pinning a folder of related shortcuts to the
start menu it can only be accessed as a folder, not as a menu. Is there
any way to restore the old functionality of the Start Menu?

FOR REFERENCE:
The default WinXP shortcut menus are located here:
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Start Menu\Programs\
C:\Documents and Settings\(user)\Start Menu\Programs\

On WinXP, I can easily create a shortcut menu by adding a folder
called whatever (let's call it "menu") to this hierarchy:
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Start Menu\menu\
Where "menu" is the top of a functional hierarchy of directories
which end with shortcuts to programs at the lowest level.

However, I'm having trouble replicating this on Windows 7.

On Win7, the default shortcut menus are located at:
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Startup\
C:\Users\(user)\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs
\Startup\

But, when I put a directory in those locations, that directory
does not show up as a menu in the Windows 7 Start Menu.
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Startup\menu

Q: Is there freeware that replicates the WinXP ability to pin a
hierarchical menu to the Start Menu GUI?

Note:
On Win7, I already set the Folder Options (Control Panel->Folder Options-
System files.

Note:
The reasons for a functionally organized shortcut menu is obvious; while
the reasons for that menu being separate from the default menus are:
a. It's (much) easier to maintain & replicate a menu which is unpolluted
b. It's easier for others to see the default (cluttered) Start Menu
c. Rarely, but possibly, the additional links in the grossly polluted "All
Programs" menu come in handy (e.g., additional uninstall links, readme
links, doc links, setup links, update links, sister program links, etc.)
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5454/9379442805_d708428c5b_o.gif
Here's what I do; and it works.

Create a folder on the desktop; put shortcuts into it.
Drag it to the Start Orb and then up the menu as it opens, into Programs.

You'll then find it in
C/Users/{uname}/AppData/Roaming/Microsoft/Windows; together with all the
other things.

Ed
 
Z

Zaidy036

I tried that before I even posted.
No matter *where* I put the "menu" folder,
when it gets pinned to the Windows 7 start menu,
it acts like a folder, and not like a menu.

I can't be the first person to ever want a menu outside
the grossly polluted (and constantly re-polluted) Start Menu,
so, there *must* be an existing solution to this simple problem.

But what?
Maybe it work s for me because I am using the "Classic Start Menu"
 
P

Paul

Danny said:
I tried that before I even posted.
No matter *where* I put the "menu" folder,
when it gets pinned to the Windows 7 start menu,
it acts like a folder, and not like a menu.

I can't be the first person to ever want a menu outside
the grossly polluted (and constantly re-polluted) Start Menu,
so, there *must* be an existing solution to this simple problem.

But what?
Yes, but one of the reasons things work the way they do, is
due to the customization mechanism. Desktop.ini contains
information about whether a folder is special or not.

Check whatever is used for a regular menu folder. Open the
desktop.ini if one is present, and see what info is in there.
That's how I would start.

Just dropping a folder somewhere, doesn't guarantee the customization
info is inherited.

For example, on my WinXP machine, above the Program Menus folder

[.ShellClassInfo]
LocalizedResourceName=@shell32.dll,-21786

Then, the Desktop.ini inside the Programs folder. This
all has to mean something.

[.ShellClassInfo]
LocalizedResourceName=@shell32.dll,-21782
[LocalizedFileNames]
Remote Assistance.lnk=@%systemroot%\system32\rcbdyctl.dll,-152
Internet Explorer.lnk=@xpsp1res.dll,-11001
Outlook Express.lnk=@xpsp1res.dll,-11004

The Desktop.ini inside Accessories.

[LocalizedFileNames]
Windows Explorer.lnk=@%SystemRoot%\system32\shell32.dll,-22067
Command Prompt.lnk=@%SystemRoot%\system32\shell32.dll,-22022
Notepad.lnk=@%SystemRoot%\system32\shell32.dll,-22051
Synchronize.lnk=@%SystemRoot%\system32\shell32.dll,-22062
Tour Windows XP.lnk=@%SystemRoot%\system32\tourstart.exe,-1
Program Compatibility Wizard.lnk=@%SystemRoot%\system32\compatUI.dll,-115
Address Book.lnk=@%SystemRoot%\system32\shell32.dll,-22017
[.ShellClassInfo]
LocalizedResourceName=@%SystemRoot%\system32\shell32.dll,-21761

The Shell32 on that OS, plays a big part. Perhaps Win7 has
some mechanism like that.

Paul
 
D

Danny D.

Hmm.. indeed. It looks as if I did it from within the Start Menu when running
Classic Shell because, as you say, it just pins the folder to the Start Menu if I
shut down Classic Shell.
Hi John,
Thanks very much for following up on this and for taking the time to test it.

The good news is that we've confirmed that no matter where the desired "menu"
folder resides, if you simply pin it to the default Windows 7 start menu, it
still acts like a dumb folder (and not like a cascaded menu).

I'm unfamiliar with the term "Classic Shell" (as I'm brand new to Windows 7),
so, googling for "Windows 7 classic shell", I find it's a freeware addon.

I don't really want "skins" or "looks"; all I want is a menu that isn't
constantly polluted in the Windows 7 start menu - but - if "Classic Shell"
freeware gives me the ability to add a cascaded menu to Windows 7, then
that's what I'll do.

I see I can download it from CNET:
http://download.cnet.com/Classic-Shell/3000-2072_4-75553853.html
Or from ClassicShell.net:
http://www.classicshell.net

It seems, at first glance, that classic shell is mostly to customize the
Windows 7 Windows Explorer, which I didn't have a great issue with - so -
I hope I can turn off all the Windows Explorer customizations and just
keep the singular ability to just add a decent menu to the start menu.

I'll try it and report back.

PS: I'm shocked that Windows 7, by default, doesn't even have the basic
capability of adding a user-defined menu. Who makes these decisions
to drop such a fundamentally necessary and useful capability? In my
book, that is a black eye against Windows 7, right from the start.
(Otherwise, it seems ok, albeit confusing as all hell with the
"Library" concept - which is yet another "abstraction" that gets in
the way of people who actually know where they put all their files.)
 
D

Danny D.

Maybe it work s for me because I am using the "Classic Start Menu"
Hmmm... I just researched "Classic Shell", but is that the same or
different than "Classic Start Menu"?

The reason it may matter is that all I want to do is add a cascaded
menu to the Windows 7 start menu.

If I load "Classic Shell", it seems that this will change (potentially)
my entire shell environment (which isn't what I want to do).

Googling, to see if a "Classic Start Menu" exists, I see that it
does, and that it is payware:
http://www.classicstartmenu.com

Is that payware what you are using to add a custom menu to the Windows 7
start menu?
 
D

Danny D.

Here's what I do; and it works.
Create a folder on the desktop; put shortcuts into it.
Drag it to the Start Orb and then up the menu as it opens, into Programs.
You'll then find it in
C/Users/{uname}/AppData/Roaming/Microsoft/Windows; together with all the
other things.
Hi Ed,
If only it were that easy! :(

When I do that, and John tested it also, the result is that the added
menu item doesn't cascade like a menu. It simply opens up a folder.

So I have to ask whether your Win7 result opens up as a folder or if
it cascades into a menu, as shown in my WinXP screenshot below:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3674/9379442769_5419507cea_o.gif

What we want is to have a cascading menu like that, not a folder.

Q: Does your solution cascade? Or does it open to a folder?
 
D

dadiOH

Danny D. said:
It seems, at first glance, that classic shell is mostly
to customize the Windows 7 Windows Explorer, which I
didn't have a great issue with - so -
I hope I can turn off all the Windows Explorer
customizations and just
keep the singular ability to just add a decent menu to
the start menu.
You can.
_____________________
PS: I'm shocked that Windows 7, by default, doesn't even
have the basic capability of adding a user-defined
menu.
I don't have Win 7 but I use Win 8 with Classic Shell. If Win7 has a "Start
Menu" folder - and a convenient way to access it (start button, whatever) -
all you have to do is make your directory tree in that folder; it will
cascade (note: directories, NOT shortcuts TO directories).

If Win 7 doesn't have the necessaries, Classic Shell will provide them.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
 
E

Ed Cryer

Danny said:
Hi Ed,
If only it were that easy! :(

When I do that, and John tested it also, the result is that the added
menu item doesn't cascade like a menu. It simply opens up a folder.

So I have to ask whether your Win7 result opens up as a folder or if
it cascades into a menu, as shown in my WinXP screenshot below:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3674/9379442769_5419507cea_o.gif

What we want is to have a cascading menu like that, not a folder.

Q: Does your solution cascade? Or does it open to a folder?
It opens up exactly the same as the Win7 norm. Is that what you mean by
"simply opens up a folder"?

If you do, then what you want is Classic Shell to give you the old
XP-style look;
http://sourceforge.net/projects/classicshell/

It's a question of looks rather than functionality. Each requires the
same number of clicks to get to what you want. Personally I've grown
fully accustomed to the Win7 look.

Ed
 
D

Danny D.

all you have to do is make your directory tree in that folder; it will
cascade (note: directories, NOT shortcuts TO directories).
To be clear, I do *not* want the menu *inside* the "All Programs" menu.

The reason is that this menu is already polluted, and continues to
be polluted, so, I want the menu at the *same level* as the "All Programs"
menu.

We've determined pretty convincingly, that this basic capability is
wholly missing from Windows 7. I'd be ecstatic to be wrong about that,
but, it sure seems that it just can't be done with Windows 7 by
default (which is a shame as that makes the OS much less useful).
If Win 7 doesn't have the necessaries, Classic Shell will provide them.
Classic Shell appears, upon first sight, to be vast overkill for what
I want - but - if it has the ability to make a Start Menu item, then,
I guess all that unwanted Windows Explorer skin stuff may still be worth
the effort.

To be specific, I'm not trying to *replicate* the WinXP GUI in Windows 7;
I'm just trying to maintain control of my startup menus. And, it's a
unexpected shock that Windows 7 doesn't even have this most basic of
capabilities. <shakes head in utter disbelief>
 
D

Danny D.

It opens up exactly the same as the Win7 norm.
Is that what you mean by "simply opens up a folder"?
What I mean by "simply opens up a folder" is that it simply
brings you to the Windows Explorer GUI, at the level of that
folder.

For example, if I put "menu" in "c:\a\b\c\menu", and if "menu"
has subdirectories {archivers,browsers,editors, etc.},
and in those subdirectories, there are shortcuts to their
respective programs {IZArc.exe,firefox.exe,Irfanview.exe,etc.},
then I expect a single mouse button press to navigate through
all those hierarchies and to open up the executable.

That's what I refer to as a "cascaded menu" (just like what
you see in this WinXP screenshot:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3674/9379442769_5419507cea_o.gif

If, instead, when you click on "menu", you end up with the
Windows Explorer, and then you have to click a second time on
editors, and then a third time on "picture editors", and then
a fourth time on "Irfanview.exe", then that is what I mean by
opening up as a "dumb folder".

The difference is immense. Most notably, one click versus four
clicks for every single program that you wish to run.

I'm shocked that Windows 7 is a step backward from Windows XP
in usability, at least in this critical single piece of usability.

It's like buying a brand new car, and it doesn't even have a
cigarette lighter socket to run your accessories.
 
Z

Zo

Danny D. formulated the question :
To be clear, I do *not* want the menu *inside* the "All Programs" menu.

The reason is that this menu is already polluted, and continues to
be polluted, so, I want the menu at the *same level* as the "All Programs"
menu.

We've determined pretty convincingly, that this basic capability is
wholly missing from Windows 7. I'd be ecstatic to be wrong about that,
but, it sure seems that it just can't be done with Windows 7 by
default (which is a shame as that makes the OS much less useful).


Classic Shell appears, upon first sight, to be vast overkill for what
I want - but - if it has the ability to make a Start Menu item, then,
I guess all that unwanted Windows Explorer skin stuff may still be worth
the effort.

To be specific, I'm not trying to *replicate* the WinXP GUI in Windows 7;
I'm just trying to maintain control of my startup menus. And, it's a
unexpected shock that Windows 7 doesn't even have this most basic of
capabilities. <shakes head in utter disbelief>
I'm not a user of Win7, but I've been following this thread with
interest. I came across this forum, it appears to answer your
question, I think. Well anyway, here is the link, I hope this helps
you out...

http://www.sevenforums.com/customization/91691-any-way-make-folders-start-menu-all-programs-expandable-3.html

If you have already read this... sorry :-(

--
Zo

"You are welcome to visit the cemetery where famous Russian and Soviet
composers, artists, and writers are buried daily except Thursday." -- A
sign in a Moscow hotel across the street from a Russian Orthodox
monastery.
 
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H

hummingbird

Hmmm... I just researched "Classic Shell", but is that the same or
different than "Classic Start Menu"?

The reason it may matter is that all I want to do is add a cascaded
menu to the Windows 7 start menu.

If I load "Classic Shell", it seems that this will change (potentially)
my entire shell environment (which isn't what I want to do).

Googling, to see if a "Classic Start Menu" exists, I see that it
does, and that it is payware:
http://www.classicstartmenu.com

Is that payware what you are using to add a custom menu to the Windows 7
start menu?
Will popup menus from a task bar icon do instead?

hb
(the REAL hummingbird)
 

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