Maximum file sizes


J

jbm

I am running Windows 7 Home Premium on a hp G5105uk computer. There are two
available hard drives:

C: An internal WDC WD64 00AAKS-65Z7B SCSI drive. 650Gb NTFS factory
formatted. 497Gb free.
G: An external Seagate GoFlex USB drive. 1000Gb NTFS formatted on an older
Win XP machine. 439Gb free

In the past, using a L7VTA based Windows XP computer with NTFS or FAT32
formatted drives, when recording sound directly from a connected FM radio
tuner via the sound card, I have always hit a wall at a file size of 2GB,
equivalent at approximately 3 hours 20 minutes of recording.

Does anyone know if I am going to hit this same block wall at 2Gb on the new
computer, or if larger files can be created, and if so, how large could they
be? In addition, would it be possible to transfer these files, if larger
than 2Gb, to a 16Gb USB Flash Drive?

Every thing I've looked at so far on the web keeps referring to partition
size, and seems to be specifically vague about actual file sizes.

jim
 
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T

Thip

jbm said:
I am running Windows 7 Home Premium on a hp G5105uk computer. There are
two available hard drives:

C: An internal WDC WD64 00AAKS-65Z7B SCSI drive. 650Gb NTFS factory
formatted. 497Gb free.
G: An external Seagate GoFlex USB drive. 1000Gb NTFS formatted on an older
Win XP machine. 439Gb free

In the past, using a L7VTA based Windows XP computer with NTFS or FAT32
formatted drives, when recording sound directly from a connected FM radio
tuner via the sound card, I have always hit a wall at a file size of 2GB,
equivalent at approximately 3 hours 20 minutes of recording.

Does anyone know if I am going to hit this same block wall at 2Gb on the
new computer, or if larger files can be created, and if so, how large
could they be? In addition, would it be possible to transfer these files,
if larger than 2Gb, to a 16Gb USB Flash Drive?

Every thing I've looked at so far on the web keeps referring to partition
size, and seems to be specifically vague about actual file sizes.

jim
It's FAT32 that has the 2 GB limit, not NTFS. This pertains to XP but might
help a little:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc766145(WS.10).aspx

Also, you can't move files larger than 2 GB to your flash drive *unless* you
format it it NTFS.
 
C

Char Jackson

I am running Windows 7 Home Premium on a hp G5105uk computer. There are two
available hard drives:

C: An internal WDC WD64 00AAKS-65Z7B SCSI drive. 650Gb NTFS factory
formatted. 497Gb free.
G: An external Seagate GoFlex USB drive. 1000Gb NTFS formatted on an older
Win XP machine. 439Gb free
No confusion this time, but in the future please use a capital B to
refer to bytes. The lowercase b refers to bits. There are 8 bits in a
byte, so the difference is substantial.
Gb - Gigabits
GB - Gigabytes
In the past, using a L7VTA based Windows XP computer with NTFS or FAT32
formatted drives, when recording sound directly from a connected FM radio
tuner via the sound card, I have always hit a wall at a file size of 2GB,
equivalent at approximately 3 hours 20 minutes of recording.
If you're hitting a wall at 2 GB, I suspect it's probably the program
you were using to record. What was it, by the way?
Does anyone know if I am going to hit this same block wall at 2Gb on the new
computer, or if larger files can be created, and if so, how large could they
be? In addition, would it be possible to transfer these files, if larger
than 2Gb, to a 16Gb USB Flash Drive?
On my NTFS systems, I do full image backups on a regular basis and
those files are typically around 300 GB, with the largest being about
345 GB. If you format your USB drive as NTFS, you should have no
problem putting a large file on it, up to its capacity, of course.
Every thing I've looked at so far on the web keeps referring to partition
size, and seems to be specifically vague about actual file sizes.
There's some good info here and here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ntfs
 
J

jbm

"Thip" wrote in message
It's FAT32 that has the 2 GB limit, not NTFS. This pertains to XP but might
help a little:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc766145(WS.10).aspx

Also, you can't move files larger than 2 GB to your flash drive *unless* you
format it it NTFS.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for the reminder on NTFS formatting. I'm not sure what my flash
drives are, but more than likely FAT32.

jim
 
C

Char Jackson

It's FAT32 that has the 2 GB limit, not NTFS. This pertains to XP but might
help a little:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc766145(WS.10).aspx
At your link above, it says "Maximum file size 4 GB" for FAT32.

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table, the
max file size for FAT32 is also given as approximately 4GB.

"The maximum possible size for a file on a FAT32 volume is 4 GiB minus
1 byte (232-1=4,294,967,295 bytes). Video applications, large
databases, and some other software easily exceed this limit. Larger
files require another formatting type such as NTFS."

I'm curious where the OP's 2GB file size limit is coming from and
suggested it might be his choice of recording software.
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

I am running Windows 7 Home Premium on a hp G5105uk computer. There are two
available hard drives:

C: An internal WDC WD64 00AAKS-65Z7B SCSI drive. 650Gb NTFS factory
formatted. 497Gb free.
G: An external Seagate GoFlex USB drive. 1000Gb NTFS formatted on an older
Win XP machine. 439Gb free

In the past, using a L7VTA based Windows XP computer with NTFS or FAT32
formatted drives, when recording sound directly from a connected FM radio
tuner via the sound card, I have always hit a wall at a file size of 2GB,
equivalent at approximately 3 hours 20 minutes of recording.

Does anyone know if I am going to hit this same block wall at 2Gb on the new
computer, or if larger files can be created, and if so, how large could they
be? In addition, would it be possible to transfer these files, if larger
than 2Gb, to a 16Gb USB Flash Drive?

Every thing I've looked at so far on the web keeps referring to partition
size, and seems to be specifically vague about actual file sizes.

jim
It's not the computer or the OS, it's the file system.

FAT32 has a max limit of 2GB or 4GB (some apps limit themselves to the
smaller value)

NTFS has a limit, but IIRC, it's a good bit larger than any currently
available drive, so I have forgotten the number.

Here we go: http://www.ntfs.com/ntfs_vs_fat.htm gives lots of facts for
a bunch of different file systems. Their number for NTFS is (16TB -
64KB). Some RAID systems might be approaching that, but single drives
still don't exceed 3TB, the last time I noticed (a few days ago).
 
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J

jbm

"Char Jackson" wrote in message

No confusion this time, but in the future please use a capital B to
refer to bytes. The lowercase b refers to bits. There are 8 bits in a
byte, so the difference is substantial.
Gb - Gigabits
GB - Gigabytes

If you're hitting a wall at 2 GB, I suspect it's probably the program
you were using to record. What was it, by the way?

On my NTFS systems, I do full image backups on a regular basis and
those files are typically around 300 GB, with the largest being about
345 GB. If you format your USB drive as NTFS, you should have no
problem putting a large file on it, up to its capacity, of course.

There's some good info here and here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ntfs

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To B or not to b? Sorry

Your second link above gives a NTFS limit of 16TB. I think that may be a bit
more than sufficient. :)

On the old computer, all the internal drives were FAT32. The USB drive has
always been NTFS, but was only acquired about a year ago. And for the life
of me, I cannot remember which drive I used towards the end of the XP's
life. Everything got transferred to the USB drive in the end, including all
the existing 2GB files, with no problems (apart from the fact that it was
the IDE disk controller that was packing up at the time).

I did wonder on the old machine if the software may not be the problem. I
was running Steinberg's WaveLab 5 and Clean 4, but they both refuse point
blank to run on this machine. Reading the logs, it appears there are several
files they cannot find in the Windows directory, and I really cannot be had
trying to download and install them all. There are about 20 or so they
want. For now I am running Free Audio Editor from
http://www.free-audio-editor.com. It does what I want for now, though only
tested on files up to 3 hours so far, so it will suffice till I get round to
buying something more up to the job. I ideally need something that can
handle up to 24 hours, but a minimum of 12 hours.

I've just looked in the backup directory on the USB drive, and if I'm
reading it correctly, the main VHD file is 81GB (81,433,144 KB). Which sort
of answers my own question. More than big enough for what I want, which will
be in the region of 16-24GB at a time.

jim
 
V

VanguardLH

jbm said:
Windows 7 Home Premium
hp G5105uk computer
Two hard drives:

C: (internal WDC WD64 00AAKS-65Z7B SCSI drive) - 650Gb NTFS
G: (external Seagate GoFlex USB drive) - 1000Gb NTFS

In the past, using a L7VTA based Windows XP computer with NTFS or FAT32
formatted drives, when recording sound directly from a connected FM radio
tuner via the sound card, I have always hit a wall at a file size of 2GB,
equivalent at approximately 3 hours 20 minutes of recording.
For file system limits, see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_file_systems

FAT32 has a max file size of 4 gigabytes. NTFS has a max file size of
16 exabytes (but hardware constraints limit this to much less, like 4
terabytes).

If you are hitting a 2GB barrier in recording audio then perhaps it is a
limitation to the UNIDENTIFIED software you are using to do the
recording. It may have limits (which may be internal to its processing
of the audio data and nothing to do with the file system of the OS).
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

Support:
http://www.free-audio-editor.com/support/index.htm

Few technical details are available on their web site (looks to be
lureware). Don't expect super intelligence when calling their tech
support. They probably are just shovelling out some rebranded software
and haven't a clue how it works. They may end up pointing you at their
payware for a solution.
I had no trouble finding on the site that they are selling the advanced
version for ~$30, which unlocks some (listed) features that are not
available in the free version.

They list a lot of their formats and capabilities on the site, and even
provide a tutorial (I didn't look at it).

They even give a street address and a phone number (with area code!).
 
V

VanguardLH

Gene said:
I had no trouble finding on the site that they are selling the advanced
version for ~$30, which unlocks some (listed) features that are not
available in the free version.
Oh, so it is lureware as I suspected. Take a look at their payware
version and what features it lists that are supposedly not available in
the free version:

http://www.free-audio-editor.com/order/buy-now.htm
says
- Create audio using the premier codec: MP3 (or WMA/OGG)
- Burn or rip audio CDs
- Batch convert/merge audio files
- Text-to-speech

Now go back and read the features they claim for their free version.
Oops, looks like they made mistake and listed some of those payware-only
features in the freeware version. If YOU do the compare of their
features list for both, you'll notice the payware version only gives you
the rip and batch features.

Read the user reviews and they complain that the freeware version is so
crippled that the product is only usable by paying for it to unlock all
those "deluxe" features.
They list a lot of their formats and capabilities on the site, and even
provide a tutorial (I didn't look at it).
They only list a few file formats: MP3, WMA, WAV, and OGG. Anything
else is lumped under "and many more". I saw no list of all supported
file formats.

From user reviews, only the WAV (Windows PCM) output file format is
supported in the freeware version to save the edited content. You have
to PAY for the Deluxe version to get the other output file formats.
They even give a street address and a phone number (with area code!).
Yes, they do provide decent contact information. Makes me wonder why
they hide their domain registration behind WhoIsGuard who provides
private registration services (i.e., the registrant gets to hide while
the registrar takes over the duties as the responsible contact as
required by IANA for registrars). Oh, a company that distributes
software but feels they have to hide. Uh huh.

For phone support, you must be a registered user of their free product.
That means doling out a valid e-mail address. Gee, now why would they
need an e-mail address for PHONE support? When you install the freeware
product, you are also requested to provide an e-mail address. You don't
think spammers, marketers, or other slime consider divulging valid and
active e-mail addresses worth the cost of producing free software,
especially if it is just some reskinned program?

Take note of the postal address: FAE Distribution. They distribute the
product. Doesn't look like they actually produce it. Might be just a
reskinned version of some other program. For example, Applian dumped
their own Replay Media Catcher and acquired the rights to distribute a
reskinned version of Jaksta. They added a couple extra features but the
base product is Jaksta. Several AV products are reskinned versions of
licensed distros they bought from some other existing AV vendor.

When you start the install, the first dialog shows the Publisher is
"Tsingsoft Imagination Information Technology Co., Ltd." and the cert
shows Country is CN (China). Doesn't really have that American ring to
its company name despite giving out a Calif postal address and USA phone
number. Sounds more like a Beijing (Chinese) company and perhaps found
here: http://www.tsingsoft.com.cn/. I didn't find a Google match for
"Tsingsoft Imagination Information Technology Co., Ltd.". "[Beijing]
TsingSoft Innovation Technology Co., Ltd." came close but their product
descriptions don't look like they would be producing audio editors unles
FAE is some spin-off or sibling enterprise. When you launch FAE, you'll
notice its banner shows Gmbh (German: Gesellschaft mit Beschränkter
Haftung, meaning Limited Liability Company). Postal address and phone
number in California, indication of German influence, reference to a
Chinese software developer (or re-coder).

Although the installer is supposedly digitally signed, it contains no
e-mail, web/domain, or other identity information. It just has the
company name and which certainly doesn't match on "FAE Distribution".

The default install qualifies this freeware product as adware due to the
default inclusion of their search & capture toolbar. Softpedia.com
correctly classifies this product as "ad-supported" (their polite term
for adware).

Good thing my extremely short-lived trial was inside a virtual machine.
Just select "turn off and delete changes" when I exit the VM to blow
away anything from this product. I wouldn't want this on my real host.
 
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P

Paul

jbm said:
I am running Windows 7 Home Premium on a hp G5105uk computer. There are
two available hard drives:

C: An internal WDC WD64 00AAKS-65Z7B SCSI drive. 650Gb NTFS factory
formatted. 497Gb free.
G: An external Seagate GoFlex USB drive. 1000Gb NTFS formatted on an
older Win XP machine. 439Gb free

In the past, using a L7VTA based Windows XP computer with NTFS or FAT32
formatted drives, when recording sound directly from a connected FM
radio tuner via the sound card, I have always hit a wall at a file size
of 2GB, equivalent at approximately 3 hours 20 minutes of recording.

Does anyone know if I am going to hit this same block wall at 2Gb on the
new computer, or if larger files can be created, and if so, how large
could they be? In addition, would it be possible to transfer these
files, if larger than 2Gb, to a 16Gb USB Flash Drive?

Every thing I've looked at so far on the web keeps referring to
partition size, and seems to be specifically vague about actual file sizes.

jim
4GB is a FAT32 limit. That causes file system issues. But
that is not what's "biting" you in this case.

*******

When you see a 2GB limit, that can be caused by applications
that "memory map" while recording. The 2GB could correspond
to a virtual address space limit for a 32 bit process, the
amount of virtual memory the process has access to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory-mapped_file

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778(VS.85).aspx

Try Audacity and see what it says for a limit. When I
tried this a couple minutes ago, it said I could record
for 23 hours, after I clicked the record button. I suspect
it's recording 32 bit samples from my 16 bit sound card,
so being a bit wasteful.

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/

Audacity stores its temporary files, on C: . The 23 hours,
corresponds to the remaining space on my C: .

C:\Documents and Settings\UserName\Local Settings\Temp\audacity_temp\project23710\e00\d00
e0000b5e.au 1,060,956 bytes
e0000721.au 1,060,956 bytes
...

When you stop the recording, you'll have options to
"Export" the recording, in which case, you'll be transferring
those thousands of files in %temp% to the final resting place
on your other disk. So, you'll need space in two places,
space on C: to store the temporary file, and space on the
final storage device. The final file will be one
huge file, rather than the thousands of small temporary files
that Audacity is putting in %temp%.

There may be a limit, to how many files can be placed in a
folder, so if Audacity was actually allowed to run for a long
long time, you might have a problem of that sort (the
inability to open that folder, without a very long delay
or an error message). Perhaps Audacity is smart enough, to
start new folders before that happens ? Only time will tell.

HTH,
Paul
 
T

Tim Slattery

It's FAT32 that has the 2 GB limit, not NTFS. This pertains to XP but might
help a little:
No, the limit is FAT32 is 4GB. In NTFS it's practically unlimited.
It's bigger than the largest disks available today. The software
you're using might have it's own limitations on file size.

Yup, good information there.
Also, you can't move files larger than 2 GB to your flash drive *unless* you
format it it NTFS.
No, flash drives generally use FAT32, and that system can handle 4GB
files.
 
A

Andrew Rossmann

I am running Windows 7 Home Premium on a hp G5105uk computer. There are two
available hard drives:

C: An internal WDC WD64 00AAKS-65Z7B SCSI drive. 650Gb NTFS factory
formatted. 497Gb free.
G: An external Seagate GoFlex USB drive. 1000Gb NTFS formatted on an older
Win XP machine. 439Gb free

In the past, using a L7VTA based Windows XP computer with NTFS or FAT32
formatted drives, when recording sound directly from a connected FM radio
tuner via the sound card, I have always hit a wall at a file size of 2GB,
equivalent at approximately 3 hours 20 minutes of recording.

Does anyone know if I am going to hit this same block wall at 2Gb on the new
computer, or if larger files can be created, and if so, how large could they
be? In addition, would it be possible to transfer these files, if larger
than 2Gb, to a 16Gb USB Flash Drive?

Every thing I've looked at so far on the web keeps referring to partition
size, and seems to be specifically vague about actual file sizes.
As mentioned, the individual FILE size limit on FAT12/FAT16/FAT32 is 4GB
(2^32). The 2G limit may be because your program is using a signed 32-
bit number to hold file size data or a pointer to a buffer, which cuts
the value allowed to +/-2G.

NTFS's size limit is huge, and generally not an issue. Still, your
program may be the limiting factor unless you use different software.

As for flash drives, it again depends on the format. If they are the
typical FAT format, then the 4G limit still applies. You can format them
to NTFS, but they will only be readable on a Windows computer (and maybe
Linux and Mac). Most other devices such as TV's, BluRay players, cars,
etc... only support FAT.
 
Y

Yousuf Khan

For file system limits, see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_file_systems

FAT32 has a max file size of 4 gigabytes. NTFS has a max file size of
16 exabytes (but hardware constraints limit this to much less, like 4
terabytes).

If you are hitting a 2GB barrier in recording audio then perhaps it is a
limitation to the UNIDENTIFIED software you are using to do the
recording. It may have limits (which may be internal to its processing
of the audio data and nothing to do with the file system of the OS).
The 2GB limit may be a limitation of programs that use "memory-mapped
i/o" techniques. It's a way of treating a file on disk as a virtual part
of your RAM. It's faster way to read and write to files than the
standard OS read & write functions, but it also limits you to the
maximum amount of memory you can access. If it's a 32-bit app with no
PAE (Page-table Address Extensions) support, then it's limited to 2GB
only. This limit will be in effect whether you're using FAT32 or NTFS. A
32-bit app with PAE support might be able to take that upto 3GB or 4GB.
A 64-bit app will take that up into the Exabytes!

Yousuf Khan
 
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G

Gene E. Bloch

As for flash drives, it again depends on the format. If they are the
typical FAT format, then the 4G limit still applies. You can format them
to NTFS, but they will only be readable on a Windows computer (and maybe
Linux and Mac). Most other devices such as TV's, BluRay players, cars,
etc... only support FAT.
I have used SW on a Mac to read and write NTFS, but it's not a native
feature (or wasn't back then, OS-X 10.4).

Since that worked on the Unix side of things, I suspect the same SW
works in *nix, but it's been a while and my recollection is a bit fuzzy.
 
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