Windows live mail with windows 7

[Gene E. Bloch]

That's because WLM is broken and is not displaying the signature text
properly on your end. It also doesn't remove the signature when you
quote a message when replying. If you insist on continuing to use WLM
2011, then please at least remove the signature block at the end of the
text you quote. The reason is that most newsreaders automatically
remove it when you hit reply, and since your comments are below the
signature of the quoted material it gets stripped off as well. In order
for me to have your comments included in this reply, I had to use
selective quoting where I highlight text before hitting the reply
button. I then had to reformat the text so that it would be in the
proper format.... much more work (for me) than what should have been
necessary.


I agree that it does help some....


On the contrary it's not just a few, it's the majority of people here
that have to suffer with WLM 2011's quoting and signature problems.
It's only a handful of people who are complaining about it.

I think it's time for you and Char Jackson to realize that bobster just
is *not* going to get it

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 08:12:28 -0800, "Alex Clayton"

"Fred" wrote in message
My XP computer has Windows live mail version 2009. Top line has file
edit view go tools actions help.
My other computer - windows 7 - has Windows live mail version 2011 and I
can't find anyway of displaying these menu items on it. Do they no longer
exist with the program?

A while back I noticed a few people talking about how the "new" WLM was a
mess. I accidentally loaded it on a laptop we only use for watching moving
onto our TV. I was letting it do the updates and when I saw it was doing
the
WLM 2011 I figured it was ok since I do not use it for Usenet anyway. So
now
that it is there, and I am trying it I don't see what the problem is??? It
seems so far to be very strait forward to me.

-- "Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites.
Moderation is for monks."

[Lazarus Long]


Seriously? Its problems have been mentioned so many times that people
must be bored to read about them. You can start with the fact that
your text and the text from "Fred" are indistinguishable from each
other.

Also, (I didn't snip it so you could see it), the sig delimiter is
broken. The "dash dash space" needs to be on a line by themselves in
order to be recognized as a proper sig delimiter.

I had not paid a lot of attention to the conversation when it was going on.

I'm sorry to hear that, but if you were interested, I suppose you
could always search the group for those threads.

As long as I have been on Usenet there seems to be a never ending battle
about what is wrong with everything MS makes. Been hearing it since I
learned to use OE.

That's because some Microsoft products are absolutely horrible, like
IE, OE, ME, to name a few. Most of their products are very usable,
however.

Now that I see the post on another machine I did right away spot the way
WLM 2011 did not use the > next to every line. That is something I have long
heard people complaining about though with all the versions of MS Usenet
readers. Something about some readers use one > for part of the quote and 2
cared about.

If you're going to participate in Usenet discussions, you should make
it a point to care. Do you go crap on your neighbor's lawn every
morning? Probably not, and it's probably because you care. You should
care here, too. The rest of us deserve it.

The ">" is used by convention to show quoting by the previous poster.
Each reply adds another ">", so it's easy to see who said what. Strip
those away, however, and it's a big hot mess.

I went back and checked the WLM 2011 again and it has a button to insert a
------------- line so I guess you could use that to separate the reply from
the original.

I suppose it's better than nothing, but only in the same way that a
sharp stick in the eye is better than two sharp sticks in the eye. It
doesn't really address the problem.

I do like the ribbon they use now I guess because I have
gotten so used to using Word 07 at School. Will probably go ahead and change
this one to the 2011 version too.

That's unfortunate for the rest of us, but I suppose I can just filter
your posts so I don't have to see them.

As for the:
That to is another one of those things that I have never "got". To me it was
always like the never ending war that seems to rage on about top posting or
bottom posting. It has always just looked to me like some people have way
too much time on their hands and need to find something to complain about to
fill the boredom or something. <shrug>

What part of it don't you get? Using a signature is optional, but if
you're going to use one, you should mark it properly, that's all.
There's nothing complicated about it. You just have to care a tiny
bit, is all. I see that you fixed it on the post that I'm replying to,
but you have several later posts in this thread where it's broken
again, so apparently you're being honest when you say you don't care.

Bottom line, this is a text medium. It's in your best interests to
make your posts readable by others. Why would you want to make your
posts harder to read?

When you leave your driveway in the morning, which side of the road do
you drive on? Whichever suits you? Don't you find that you get along
better with other drivers when you follow the most basic rules and
drive on your own side of the road? Usenet is no different.

I'll repeat what I just said in a reply to Roy Smith:

"I think it's time for you and Char Jackson to realize that bobster just
is *not* going to get it "

Obviously that goes for Alex Clayton as well.

 

[Roy Smith]

in message



That's because WLM is broken and is not displaying the signature text
properly on your end. It also doesn't remove the signature when you
quote a message when replying. If you insist on continuing to use WLM
2011, then please at least remove the signature block at the end of the
text you quote. The reason is that most newsreaders automatically
remove it when you hit reply, and since your comments are below the
signature of the quoted material it gets stripped off as well. In order
for me to have your comments included in this reply, I had to use
selective quoting where I highlight text before hitting the reply
button. I then had to reformat the text so that it would be in the
proper format.... much more work (for me) than what should have been
necessary.


I agree that it does help some....


On the contrary it's not just a few, it's the majority of people here
that have to suffer with WLM 2011's quoting and signature problems.
It's only a handful of people who are complaining about it.

[...Your comments not quoted...]


Here's how your last reply looked on my system:

http://my.jetscreenshot.com/1443/20110221-xvrb-129kb

Thunderbird hides the signature delimiter (-- ), then grays out the
remaining text, yours included because it's below the sig delimiter.
Now if you were to delete the signature at the end of any quoted text
when you reply to a message it won't gray it out. Here's an example:

http://my.jetscreenshot.com/1443/20110222-mryx-246kb

If you had edited your response to look like the left side of the screen
capture your response would not have been displayed in gray, and it
would have been included in the quoted text when I clicked on the reply
button.


--

Roy Smith
Windows 7 Professional
Thunderbird 3.1.7
Monday, February 21, 2011 6:09:30 PM

 

[Roy Smith]

I think it's time for you and Char Jackson to realize that bobster just
is *not* going to get it

LOL... but I can be as stubborn as a mule sometimes... but then too we
have to realize that he's only seeing things from his end and is not
aware of what we see on our screens. If only I could put the
screenshots in my messages instead of having to post them on a website.
Then he could see right then what we're talking about and not have to
go look at the picture and come back to finish reading the message.


--

Roy Smith
Windows 7 Professional
Thunderbird 3.1.7
Monday, February 21, 2011 6:17:25 PM

 

[Alex Clayton]

"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message

snip

I'll repeat what I just said in a reply to Roy Smith:

"I think it's time for you and Char Jackson to realize that bobster just
is *not* going to get it "

Obviously that goes for Alex Clayton as well.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes it does.

-- If you find a message from me to be off topic, offensive, or you don’t
like the way my news reader formats it, just ignore it. If you don’t know
how to do this, just e-mail me to complain and I will be all to glad to
demonstrate how.

 

[Char Jackson]

If you find a message from me to be off topic, offensive, or you don’t
like the way my news reader formats it, just ignore it. If you don’t know
how to do this, just e-mail me to complain and I will be all to glad to
demonstrate how.

To sum up, you'd prefer that we ignore your posts and we'd prefer that
you learn to post properly. Sadly, both sides may not get what they
want. You'll probably continue to post improperly and some of us will
probably continue to make fun of you for doing so.

The funny thing is, it's not any harder to do it right. Why someone
would refuse is beyond me.

 

[Char Jackson]

I'll repeat what I just said in a reply to Roy Smith:

"I think it's time for you and Char Jackson to realize that bobster just
is *not* going to get it "

Obviously that goes for Alex Clayton as well.

I suppose you're right, but I had to try. Some people want to do
things right and welcome the guidance, while others wear their
stubborn ignorance as a badge of honor.

I suppose it's a way of getting attention, or perhaps it's just a
product of the 'Me' generation.

 

[Roy Smith]

On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 08:12:28 -0800, "Alex Clayton"

"Fred" wrote in message
My XP computer has Windows live mail version 2009. Top line has file
edit view go tools actions help.
My other computer - windows 7 - has Windows live mail version 2011 and I
can't find anyway of displaying these menu items on it. Do they no longer
exist with the program?

A while back I noticed a few people talking about how the "new" WLM was a
mess. I accidentally loaded it on a laptop we only use for watching moving
onto our TV. I was letting it do the updates and when I saw it was doing
the
WLM 2011 I figured it was ok since I do not use it for Usenet anyway. So
now
that it is there, and I am trying it I don't see what the problem is??? It
seems so far to be very strait forward to me.

-- "Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites.
Moderation is for monks."

[Lazarus Long]


Seriously? Its problems have been mentioned so many times that people
must be bored to read about them. You can start with the fact that
your text and the text from "Fred" are indistinguishable from each
other.

Also, (I didn't snip it so you could see it), the sig delimiter is
broken. The "dash dash space" needs to be on a line by themselves in
order to be recognized as a proper sig delimiter.

--

Char Jackson

I had not paid a lot of attention to the conversation when it was going on.

I'm sorry to hear that, but if you were interested, I suppose you
could always search the group for those threads.

As long as I have been on Usenet there seems to be a never ending battle
about what is wrong with everything MS makes. Been hearing it since I
learned to use OE.

That's because some Microsoft products are absolutely horrible, like
IE, OE, ME, to name a few. Most of their products are very usable,
however.

Now that I see the post on another machine I did right away spot the way
WLM 2011 did not use the> next to every line. That is something I have long
heard people complaining about though with all the versions of MS Usenet
readers. Something about some readers use one> for part of the quote and 2
in others. Can't remember why since again it was something I never much
cared about.

If you're going to participate in Usenet discussions, you should make
it a point to care. Do you go crap on your neighbor's lawn every
morning? Probably not, and it's probably because you care. You should
care here, too. The rest of us deserve it.

The ">" is used by convention to show quoting by the previous poster.
Each reply adds another ">", so it's easy to see who said what. Strip
those away, however, and it's a big hot mess.

I went back and checked the WLM 2011 again and it has a button to insert a
------------- line so I guess you could use that to separate the reply from
the original.

I suppose it's better than nothing, but only in the same way that a
sharp stick in the eye is better than two sharp sticks in the eye. It
doesn't really address the problem.

I do like the ribbon they use now I guess because I have
gotten so used to using Word 07 at School. Will probably go ahead and change
this one to the 2011 version too.

That's unfortunate for the rest of us, but I suppose I can just filter
your posts so I don't have to see them.

As for the:
Also, (I didn't snip it so you could see it), the sig delimiter is
broken. The "dash dash space" needs to be on a line by themselves in
order to be recognized as a proper sig delimiter.
That to is another one of those things that I have never "got". To me it was
always like the never ending war that seems to rage on about top posting or
bottom posting. It has always just looked to me like some people have way
too much time on their hands and need to find something to complain about to
fill the boredom or something.<shrug>

What part of it don't you get? Using a signature is optional, but if
you're going to use one, you should mark it properly, that's all.
There's nothing complicated about it. You just have to care a tiny
bit, is all. I see that you fixed it on the post that I'm replying to,
but you have several later posts in this thread where it's broken
again, so apparently you're being honest when you say you don't care.

Bottom line, this is a text medium. It's in your best interests to
make your posts readable by others. Why would you want to make your
posts harder to read?

When you leave your driveway in the morning, which side of the road do
you drive on? Whichever suits you? Don't you find that you get along
better with other drivers when you follow the most basic rules and
drive on your own side of the road? Usenet is no different.

I'll repeat what I just said in a reply to Roy Smith:

"I think it's time for you and Char Jackson to realize that bobster just
is *not* going to get it "

Obviously that goes for Alex Clayton as well.

I think Alex is continuing to use WLM 2011 just to see how many feathers
he can ruffle.. ;-) He's been around on the newsgroups for quite some
time, so he *should* know better.


--

Roy Smith
Windows 7 Professional
Thunderbird 3.1.7
Monday, February 21, 2011 8:30:35 PM

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

To sum up, you'd prefer that we ignore your posts and we'd prefer that
you learn to post properly. Sadly, both sides may not get what they
want. You'll probably continue to post improperly and some of us will
probably continue to make fun of you for doing so.

The funny thing is, it's not any harder to do it right. Why someone
would refuse is beyond me.

You're so unimaginative.

Yes, I *am* joking. I agree with you.

Many (not all) WLM posts are sufficiently hard to parse that I just skip
them. Essentially, if the poster is unwilling to follow the conventions
which have worked so well for decades, then I am not willing to do his
work for him.

 

[bobster]

"Roy Smith" wrote in message

I think it's time for you and Char Jackson to realize that bobster just
is *not* going to get it

LOL... but I can be as stubborn as a mule sometimes... but then too we
have to realize that he's only seeing things from his end and is not
aware of what we see on our screens. If only I could put the
screenshots in my messages instead of having to post them on a website.
Then he could see right then what we're talking about and not have to
go look at the picture and come back to finish reading the message.


================================================================================================

Roy,

Very Interesting! What I see at my end when read by my news reader
(news.eternal-september.org/WLM 2011) is what the right hand pane of your
latest post shows, delimiter, double dash and complete signature. In other
words if my post were to be read by another reader using WLM 2010 it would
probably look just like mine -- undimmed and complete. But when read by a
Thunderbird user, it produces a faulty image. Leads one to wonder how other
email/news clients besides Thunderbird would read my posts.

I have deleted the double dash delimiter and your sig before replying to
your post as you have suggested. Still leaves the problem of the missing >>
setoffs.

Bobster

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Very Interesting! What I see at my end when read by my news reader
(news.eternal-september.org/WLM 2011) is what the right hand pane of your
latest post shows, delimiter, double dash and complete signature. In other
words if my post were to be read by another reader using WLM 2010 it would
probably look just like mine -- undimmed and complete. But when read by a
Thunderbird user, it produces a faulty image. Leads one to wonder how other
email/news clients besides Thunderbird would read my posts.

Not just Thunderbird. *All* newsreaders other than the offending
versions of WLM and OE do the same.

I usually use Dialog, and occasionally MesNews. Others having these
troubles use other newsreaders.

I will admit that my highlighting of the word "all" above may be wrong,
and the number of newsreaders acting that way may be under 100%, but I
assure you that the first two digits are 9's, followed by a decimal
point.

 

[Char Jackson]

Not just Thunderbird. *All* newsreaders other than the offending
versions of WLM and OE do the same.

I usually use Dialog, and occasionally MesNews. Others having these
troubles use other newsreaders.

I will admit that my highlighting of the word "all" above may be wrong,
and the number of newsreaders acting that way may be under 100%, but I
assure you that the first two digits are 9's, followed by a decimal
point.

Well said. It's probably worth pointing out (to bobster, et all) that
this isn't about how posts look to users of WLM 2011, but rather how
WLM 2011 posts look to others.

 

[Char Jackson]

You're so unimaginative.

Yes, I *am* joking. I agree with you.

Many (not all) WLM posts are sufficiently hard to parse that I just skip
them. Essentially, if the poster is unwilling to follow the conventions
which have worked so well for decades, then I am not willing to do his
work for him.

I'm willing to go to *some* trouble to read their posts, but in
exchange I get to give them crap about it. I figure that's a fair
trade. ;-)

 

[Alex Clayton]

To sum it up I really could care less about the whining. I have seen it
since the late 90's. A few who have no life seem to fill the void with a
combination of telling the world how smart they are and whining about anyone
who laughs at them.
<shrug>

 

[Alex Clayton]

I think Alex is continuing to use WLM 2011 just to see how many feathers
he can ruffle.. ;-) He's been around on the newsgroups for quite some
time, so he *should* know better.

I think you should give up thinking. Maybe take up mulling.
I use WLM because it is easy, and it's free.
"Know better"???
I know how to read so I don't have any trouble following the threads no
matter how they are formatted. The ones whining the most seem to also be
able to but seem quite offended that not everyone thinks they are as smart
as they think they are. <shrug>
I guess they can always call Mom.

 

[Tester]

I think you should give up thinking. Maybe take up mulling.
I use WLM because it is easy, and it's free.
"Know better"???

THUNDERBIRD
THUNDERBIRD
THUNDERBIRD
THUNDERBIRD
THUNDERBIRD
THUNDERBIRD
THUNDERBIRD



Download Free of charge from here:

<http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-GB/thunderbird/>

If they ask you any questions, just tell them Mr Tester asked you to
download it free of charge because it is also very easy for an
intelligent person like you who can read well!!.

hth

 

[Char Jackson]

To sum it up I really could care less about the whining. I have seen it
since the late 90's. A few who have no life seem to fill the void with a
combination of telling the world how smart they are and whining about anyone
who laughs at them.
<shrug>

I hope your move to WLM 2009 is permanent. Thanks for doing that.

 

[bobster]

"Char Jackson" wrote in message

"Dick Mahar" wrote in message

Yeah, sort of like how driving on public roads is a "to each his own"
kind of thing.

--

Char Jackson


==================================================================================================


Oh, My!

Char, you said, "Yeah, sort of like how driving on public roads is a "to
each his own" kind of thing."

Just when I was starting to think that you are rational, cool guy, you
compare posting with WLM 2011 -- which at worst, is a minor irritant to
some -- with an activity that, when done improperly, can kill people.

Looks like this topic is winding down -- it's about time. Several of us
who post here using WLM 2011 will probably continue to do so, recognizing
that it may irritate a few good people. We like WLM for far more than just
posting news, and WLM seems to work fine for us as a news reader although I
certainly miss the >> set aside capability. I personally, will take Roy
Smith's sage advice regarding deleting the sig double dash and signature
before posting a reply and will continue to add a delineating double line
between my post and the one to which I am replying.

And BTW, I'm not a member of the "Me" generation as someone suggested. Wish
I were! I'm and 81 year old retired aerospace avionics engineer.

 

[Bob Henson]

probably look just like mine -- undimmed and complete. But when read by a
Thunderbird user, it produces a faulty image. Leads one to wonder how other
email/news clients besides Thunderbird would read my posts.

All of them that I have ever come across. Only OE is as broken as Windows
Live Mail. Reading your messages is a complete pain in the backside (I use
40tude Dialog) to the extent that I am thinking of filtering out all
messages written by WLM and OE. If many people do that there will be no
point you writing any messages at all - so please change to another client
- any one will do except OE, of course.

 

[Bob Henson]

I think Alex is continuing to use WLM 2011 just to see how many feathers
he can ruffle.. ;-) He's been around on the newsgroups for quite some
time, so he *should* know better.

It's the only possible explanation that makes sense. It is plainly obvious
that someone's messages are not going to be read by many people if they are
nearly unreadable. Therefore the only reason for someone continuing to post
under those circumstances would be if they didn't want their messages to be
read. This is so ridiculous that one is left with the only possible
conclusion that they are doing it out of malice and expressly to annoy
others.

There is only one response - all of us add them to our kill files. These
two are added to mine already.


P.S. For those into conspiracy theory, it could be that Microsoft has
deliberately screwed up WLM to try to further disrupt newsgroups and force
people to use Windows Forums and The Cloud. If you believe that you'll
believe anything