Shutdown problem

Gene E. Bloch · Oct 20, 2012

Done.
The answer to your questions is 'yes, in a way'. The delay actually
occurs during logging off, which is a precursor to shutting down, and I
only know one way of logging off. The shutting down after log off is
not affected.
The interaction between Nvidia and Logitech sets something in place that
takes 5-8 seconds to close at log off, but which stays in place if
either one of them is closed before log off. Closing both before log
off removes that something.

I didn't realize that you log off before shutting down. It seems
unnecessary to do that; I always just shut down, and on this computer I
don't usually see a delay. On my netbook I frequently see a delay, which
I ascribe to the slowness of the netbook.

As for only one way to log off: you can vary it the way I described (and
clipped in my joke reply) for shutting down. Use the mouse only or use
the keyboard only, or use Ctrl-Alt-Del. The last lets you move around
with the mouse, or in a limited way with the tab key.

My instructions in the real post I made, and above, relate to the method
in my madness. You talked of interaction between mouse and display
drivers, and I proposed several ways to vary that interaction. That
might be revealing, if you have the interest and patience to do a set of
experiments.

SC Tom · Oct 20, 2012

Gene E. Bloch said:
I didn't realize that you log off before shutting down. It seems
unnecessary to do that; I always just shut down, and on this computer I
don't usually see a delay. On my netbook I frequently see a delay, which
I ascribe to the slowness of the netbook.

As for only one way to log off: you can vary it the way I described (and
clipped in my joke reply) for shutting down. Use the mouse only or use
the keyboard only, or use Ctrl-Alt-Del. The last lets you move around
with the mouse, or in a limited way with the tab key.

My instructions in the real post I made, and above, relate to the method
in my madness. You talked of interaction between mouse and display
drivers, and I proposed several ways to vary that interaction. That
might be revealing, if you have the interest and patience to do a set of
experiments.

Mine always logs off right before shut down. Usually, it shows "Logging off.
.. ." for a couple of seconds max, then changes to "Shutting down. . ." When
I was having my delays due to the Windows Exit sound, it was during the
"Shutting down. . ." process.

...winston · Oct 20, 2012

"Robin Bignall" wrote in message The interaction between Nvidia and Logitech sets something in place that
takes 5-8 seconds to close at log off, but which stays in place if
either one of them is closed before log off. Closing both before log
off removes that something.
How many items for NVidia do you have in Programs and Features ?
- latest Nvidia driver packages install an item for the video driver and an item (Update software) for automatically polling for
the current driver.

Only the former is needed. The latter creates a special write restricted user profile in C:\Users called 'UpdatusUser'
http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3067/kw/updatususer/

If present, consider removing the Nvidia Update software in Programs and Features, shutdown restart, then delete the UpdatusUser
folder in C:\Users.

Retest to see if your shutdown/timing conflict disappears.

Fyi...if you install a future NVidia driver update, the write restricted profile will re-occcur unless de-selected during
install... since it is included on all drivers since Release version 270 (Nvida is now ending the 304 series, the next will be
310).

Yousuf Khan · Oct 20, 2012

Until 3 or 4 days ago clicking on shutdown gave an instant 'ping' sound
and shutdown took a few seconds. Now, clicking on it does nothing at
all for at least 5 seconds, then up comes a sort of error screen with
something like "Windows is trying to close background programs", with a
"Force shutdown" and some other button downscreen. Then the 'ping' and,
finally, shutdown. Unfortunately that screen flashes up for a second
and it doesn't name the program causing the problem.
I haven't installed anything new or changed any of Windows' settings, as
far as I know. Anybody got any ideas?

I wouldn't worry about it, it's pretty normal. I get it from time to
time too. When there is nothing showing in the "Force shutdown" screen,
that means that the culprit program has already exited normally, even
before the "force shutdown" screen popped up. It just means some
programs are shutting down a little slower than before, but they are
still shutting down anyways.

Yousuf Khan

Robin Bignall · Oct 20, 2012

I wouldn't worry about it, it's pretty normal. I get it from time to
time too. When there is nothing showing in the "Force shutdown" screen,
that means that the culprit program has already exited normally, even
before the "force shutdown" screen popped up. It just means some
programs are shutting down a little slower than before, but they are
still shutting down anyways.

Yes, that's true. I am just curious.

Robin Bignall · Oct 20, 2012

Mine always logs off right before shut down. Usually, it shows "Logging off.
. ." for a couple of seconds max, then changes to "Shutting down. . ." When
I was having my delays due to the Windows Exit sound, it was during the
"Shutting down. . ." process.

Yes, that's how it works. I *don't* log off before shutting down, as
Gene supposes, but this is a *logging off* problem, this refusal of
something to close down for quite a while. So to test what was doing it
I exited things in the icon area, one at a time, then two at a time,
logged off and then logged on again to identify the culprits. Shutting
down and going through the power down /up process takes up too much
time.

Robin Bignall · Oct 20, 2012

"Robin Bignall" wrote in message
The interaction between Nvidia and Logitech sets something in place that
takes 5-8 seconds to close at log off, but which stays in place if
either one of them is closed before log off. Closing both before log
off removes that something.

How many items for NVidia do you have in Programs and Features ?
- latest Nvidia driver packages install an item for the video driver andan item (Update software) for automatically polling for
the current driver.

Only the former is needed. The latter creates a special write restricteduser profile in C:\Users called 'UpdatusUser'
http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3067/kw/updatususer/

If present, consider removing the Nvidia Update software in Programs andFeatures, shutdown restart, then delete the UpdatusUser
folder in C:\Users.

Retest to see if your shutdown/timing conflict disappears.

Fyi...if you install a future NVidia driver update, the write restrictedprofile will re-occcur unless de-selected during
install... since it is included on all drivers since Release version 270(Nvida is now ending the 304 series, the next will be
310).

Understood, Winston, and thanks, but reinstalling the Nvidia driver
without update and eliminating updatususer made no difference
whatsoever.

Robin Bignall · Oct 20, 2012

I didn't realize that you log off before shutting down. It seems
unnecessary to do that; I always just shut down, and on this computer I
don't usually see a delay. On my netbook I frequently see a delay, which
I ascribe to the slowness of the netbook.

I *do not* log off before shutting down, but this is a logging off
problem that I am testing.

As for only one way to log off: you can vary it the way I described (and
clipped in my joke reply) for shutting down. Use the mouse only or use
the keyboard only, or use Ctrl-Alt-Del. The last lets you move around
with the mouse, or in a limited way with the tab key.

My instructions in the real post I made, and above, relate to the method
in my madness. You talked of interaction between mouse and display
drivers, and I proposed several ways to vary that interaction. That
might be revealing, if you have the interest and patience to do a set of
experiments.

Log off is log off, a single Windows process. It doesn't matter where
or how you start it. See my reply to sc-tom.

Gene E. Bloch · Oct 20, 2012

I *do not* log off before shutting down, but this is a logging off
problem that I am testing.

Sorry - I read "The delay actually occurs during logging off" as meaning
you initiated logging off yourself first.

I still think varying the sequence to use or not use the mouse could
be...OK, it could be dull

....I could understand that by now you're tired of all this
experimentation and all these useful(?) suggestions.

Log off is log off, a single Windows process. It doesn't matter where
or how you start it. See my reply to sc-tom.

I still think varying the sequence to use or not use the mouse could
affect the processes that are delaying your activity. I don't see that
your reply to SC Tom affects my thinking there.

No, I don't think my idea is very likely, but neither do I think it's
impossible. And if I read you correctly, you haven't solved the problem
yet, so maybe it's a bit early for you to close out any avenues of
investigation...

Robin Bignall · Oct 21, 2012

Sorry - I read "The delay actually occurs during logging off" as meaning
you initiated logging off yourself first.

I still think varying the sequence to use or not use the mouse could
be...OK, it could be dull

...I could understand that by now you're tired of all this
experimentation and all these useful(?) suggestions.

Notta Tall. As Yousef said, it shuts down OK after a few extra seconds,
so it's not particularly worrying; just a niggle.

I still think varying the sequence to use or not use the mouse could
affect the processes that are delaying your activity. I don't see that
your reply to SC Tom affects my thinking there.

No, I don't think my idea is very likely, but neither do I think it's
impossible. And if I read you correctly, you haven't solved the problem
yet, so maybe it's a bit early for you to close out any avenues of
investigation...

No, I haven't. Your suggestions were:

Have you tried different ways of shutting down to see if the behavior
changes? What I mean by different ways is this:

1. Windows key, arrow key, enter.

I don't know what this means. Windows plus arrow changes size of screen.

2. Mouse click on orb, then mouse click on shutdown

Whether shutdown or log off the problem remains

3. Alt-F4 (or whatever it is)

I don't know what it is either. Shutdown / log off is not programmed
into my keyboard.

4. Ctrl-Alt-Del and select shutdown (the red "switch" at the lower right

Same problem.

Gene E. Bloch · Oct 21, 2012

Notta Tall. As Yousef said, it shuts down OK after a few extra seconds,
so it's not particularly worrying; just a niggle.

No, I haven't. Your suggestions were:

I don't know what this means. Windows plus arrow changes size of screen.

I used a comma, not a plus sign.

Press Windows Key. Release Windows Key. Press Right Arrow Key. Shutdown
is now selected. Press Return.

You have thereby shut the computer down using the keyboard and not the
mouse, thus *possibly* changing the interaction between the drivers.

Whether shutdown or log off the problem remains

Here you have shut down using the mouse and not the keyboard, thus
*possibly* changing the interaction between the drivers.

I don't know what it is either. Shutdown / log off is not programmed
into my keyboard.

I can't find it. It looks to me like I remembered something that wasn't
there.

Same problem.

So you did one of several suggested experiments. Thank you.

...winston · Oct 21, 2012

At least it rules out that item which has been known to interfere with Windows ending tasks and freeing up resources.

If removed, then that item should no longer be present in Programs and Features and its service no longer present in Services and
allow one to remove the UpdatusUser profile via deletion in Windows Explorer....and less bloat.

--
....winston
msft mvp mail

"Robin Bignall" wrote in message

"Robin Bignall" wrote in message
The interaction between Nvidia and Logitech sets something in place that
takes 5-8 seconds to close at log off, but which stays in place if
either one of them is closed before log off. Closing both before log
off removes that something.

How many items for NVidia do you have in Programs and Features ?
- latest Nvidia driver packages install an item for the video driver and an item (Update software) for automatically polling for
the current driver.

Only the former is needed. The latter creates a special write restricted user profile in C:\Users called 'UpdatusUser'
http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3067/kw/updatususer/

If present, consider removing the Nvidia Update software in Programs and Features, shutdown restart, then delete the UpdatusUser
folder in C:\Users.

Retest to see if your shutdown/timing conflict disappears.

Fyi...if you install a future NVidia driver update, the write restricted profile will re-occcur unless de-selected during
install... since it is included on all drivers since Release version 270 (Nvida is now ending the 304 series, the next will be
310).

Understood, Winston, and thanks, but reinstalling the Nvidia driver
without update and eliminating updatususer made no difference
whatsoever.

Robin Bignall · Oct 21, 2012

On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 17:15:12 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"

[slow log off]

I used a comma, not a plus sign.

Press Windows Key. Release Windows Key. Press Right Arrow Key. Shutdown
is now selected. Press Return.

Neither right arrow key does anything after Windows button pressed and
released. The down arrow does, though, and I downed to 'log off'; still
same problem.

I never used the Windows key much; must see what else it can do.

You have thereby shut the computer down using the keyboard and not the
mouse, thus *possibly* changing the interaction between the drivers.

Here you have shut down using the mouse and not the keyboard, thus
*possibly* changing the interaction between the drivers.

I can't find it. It looks to me like I remembered something that wasn't
there.

So you did one of several suggested experiments. Thank you.

Two, actually.
Next step is to look at processes to see if something vanishes when I
close both drivers. It might be hard to spot.

Gene E. Bloch · Oct 22, 2012

Neither right arrow key does anything after Windows button pressed and
released. The down arrow does, though, and I downed to 'log off'; still
same problem.

That is quite different from my computer. After I press the Windows key,
the Start Menu appears with the cursor in the "Search programs and
files" box. Then the right arrow highlights the Shutdown button.

I never used the Windows key much; must see what else it can do.

Same here. In fact, the above key sequence is pretty much all I use it
for

Well, that plus bringing up the Start menu without clicking the right
arrow, so as to launch a program.

I also will use the mouse for both operations, probably using the mouse
and the Windows key equally.

Two, actually.
Next step is to look at processes to see if something vanishes when I
close both drivers. It might be hard to spot.

Sorry I can't help further (please feel free to laugh at that!).

Since I can't duplicate your problem, I can only offer the above sorts
of guesses.