Send Fax via Internet to a Phone number?


S

Seum

I have an ADVENT computer with Win 7 Home Edition and it is claimed to
have a built-in fax device but there is no trace of any fax hardware.
What they have is a worthless piece of crap. Avoid that computer.

Is it possible to send a fax from a computer without a modem via the
Internet to a regular fax machine? I would think it could be possible
but would require some software.

Comments appreciated.

TIA
 
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S

Seum

Seum said:
I have an ADVENT computer with Win 7 Home Edition and it is claimed to
have a built-in fax device but there is no trace of any fax hardware.
What they have is a worthless piece of crap. Avoid that computer.

Is it possible to send a fax from a computer without a modem via the
Internet to a regular fax machine? I would think it could be possible
but would require some software.

Comments appreciated.

TIA
I have just come across something that might be of use:

Free fax progs from Susan Burger

<http://www.v3fax.com/freecc.htm>
"FREE CallCenter fully supports Windows 95/98, Windows NT3.51/4.0,
Windows2000, and Windows XP"

<http://www.v3fax.com/ccupgrade.htm>
"CallCenter Professional fully supports Windows 95/98, Windows
NT3.51/4.0 and Windows2000"
 
N

Nil

I have an ADVENT computer with Win 7 Home Edition and it is
claimed to have a built-in fax device but there is no trace of any
fax hardware. What they have is a worthless piece of crap. Avoid
that computer.
You should speak to them about that.
Is it possible to send a fax from a computer without a modem via
the Internet to a regular fax machine? I would think it could be
possible but would require some software.
http://www.google.com/search?q=internet+fax+service
 
C

charlie

I have an ADVENT computer with Win 7 Home Edition and it is claimed to
have a built-in fax device but there is no trace of any fax hardware.
What they have is a worthless piece of crap. Avoid that computer.

Is it possible to send a fax from a computer without a modem via the
Internet to a regular fax machine? I would think it could be possible
but would require some software.

Comments appreciated.

TIA
It's quite possible, If you don't mind paying a provider.
The general way that it works is that you send "the Fax" via Email or a
file transfer type scheme to the provider. You may need to use the
provider's client side software. The provider routes the "Fax" to the
appropriate sending fax location. The Fax is then sent to the desired
number(s).

There also was (Haven't kept up with things) client side software that
worked client to client, but I'd bet that this has fallen into non use.
Email is more convenient.

In the Win 3.0 3.1 days, this sort of software was more common.
The "TCPIP" stack was often third party, such as "SuperTCP" and had
extensions that were not included in the Microsoft stack for "security
reasons". There were newer versions that worked with Win 2K, but I've
not used them.
 
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V

VanguardLH

Seum said:
I have an ADVENT computer with Win 7 Home Edition and it is claimed to
have a built-in fax device but there is no trace of any fax hardware.
What they have is a worthless piece of crap. Avoid that computer.

Is it possible to send a fax from a computer without a modem via the
Internet to a regular fax machine? I would think it could be possible
but would require some software.

Comments appreciated.

TIA
Free online fax sending services:
http://faxzero.com/
http://www.gotfreefax.com/

Free onine fax receiving services:
http://www.efax.com/
(free receive-only account but are hard to find on their web site)

Just remember that you are using someone else's faxing service. That
means the content of your faxes (inbound or outbound) are accessible to
that faxing service. They may claim to be secure but they may still get
stuck with an disgruntled or greedy employee. I have used them but not
for anything that has credit card, bank account, or other numbers or
data that I don't want anyone else seeing.

When someone tells me they can only accept fax, I know they are lying.
Everyone that does faxes also has computers on which they do e-mail. I
tell them I can only send them an e-mail and have no means of faxing
anything to them. There is no more security in sending faxes than in
sending e-mail. With e-mail, if you want, you can get digital certs to
encrypt your e-mails (you use the recipient's public key from their cert
to encrypt your e-mails sent to them and only they have the private key
to decrypt it). Secure faxing takes more effort and expense. I can get
e-mail certs for free.
 
C

charlie

Free online fax sending services:
http://faxzero.com/
http://www.gotfreefax.com/

Free onine fax receiving services:
http://www.efax.com/
(free receive-only account but are hard to find on their web site)

Just remember that you are using someone else's faxing service. That
means the content of your faxes (inbound or outbound) are accessible to
that faxing service. They may claim to be secure but they may still get
stuck with an disgruntled or greedy employee. I have used them but not
for anything that has credit card, bank account, or other numbers or
data that I don't want anyone else seeing.

When someone tells me they can only accept fax, I know they are lying.
Everyone that does faxes also has computers on which they do e-mail. I
tell them I can only send them an e-mail and have no means of faxing
anything to them. There is no more security in sending faxes than in
sending e-mail. With e-mail, if you want, you can get digital certs to
encrypt your e-mails (you use the recipient's public key from their cert
to encrypt your e-mails sent to them and only they have the private key
to decrypt it). Secure faxing takes more effort and expense. I can get
e-mail certs for free.
Some government entities will not accept E-Mail from outside the .gov
or.mil domains. They will accept Fax.
 
C

Cameo

charlie said:
Some government entities will not accept E-Mail from outside the .gov
or.mil domains. They will accept Fax.
Not just govt, but other security conscious entities as well. However,
as some posters noted earlier, such security cannot be assured with 3rd
party fax services. The only secure fax is phone-to-phone, using POTS
lines.
 
V

VanguardLH

Cameo said:
Not just govt, but other security conscious entities as well. However,
as some posters noted earlier, such security cannot be assured with 3rd
party fax services. The only secure fax is phone-to-phone, using POTS
lines.
There is nothing more secure about *normal* faxing than sending *normal*
e-mails. After all, EVERY fax machine is equipped to receive a normal
(unencrypted) fax so it takes no effort by someone intercepting your fax
traffic to convert it to legible format. Same for unencrypted e-mail.

Encrypting e-mail is pretty easy and can be done for free. If you want
to *receive* encrypted emails, you get a free e-mail cert and then
digitally sign (with your public key) an e-mail you send to whomever you
want to receive their encrypted e-mails. You use your private key that
only you have to decrypt the e-mail.

Encrypting faxes is also possible - but just how many senders do you
know of that have installed the software needed to support it? How many
faxes has a recipient ever told you about that required encrypting the
fax traffic to their fax end? I've seen some article about encrypting
faxes but they don't encrypt the traffic outside the network and to the
recipient. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc751106.aspx
mentions encryption but that's BEFORE the fax device (between your host,
network, and fax device to the external world). That doesn't encrypt it
outside the fax device where interception occurs. Encrypted faxes
(using special fax devices or software) will look like chicken scratches
if printed on a normal fax machine.

Again, unless encrypted, there is nothing more secure about a fax
transmission than an e-mail transmission. That the gov't are idiots and
attached to archaic technology is not really a surprise to everyone not
in the gov't.

http://global-security-solutions.com/ProtectFax.html
http://www.crypto.ch/fileadmin/01_crypto/Datenblaetter/DS-HC-4221-EN_0711.pdf
http://www.nabishi.com/fax-encryption.htm

Do you know of *free* encrypting fax software or fax devices? Even if
so, do you send those encrypted faxes to anyone other than to yourself
(i.e., within divisions of your own company)? That is, to whom have you
ever sent an encrypted fax assuming you had the means to encrypt the fax
that you send?

I haven't dealt with any military entities to send faxes to know if they
truly refuse to accept e-mails. I have sent e-mails to several .gov
entities when they claimed they only accepted fax but were told that I
had no fax functionality (I lied and did but didn't want to do faxing
and preferred e-mail) and they'd give me an e-mail address. They'd
often say that they needed a hardcopy and why they needed a fax copy,
whereupon I would remind them that their fax machine is nothing much
more than a printer and they could also print their e-mails. On some
occasions, they would accept the e-mail but required me to send in a
paper copy; however, in all cases, they ended up printing the e-mail,
anyway (gee, the letter must've gotten lost in the postal mail so you'll
have to print the e-mail copy before the arbitrary deadline). There are
a lot of idiots in gov't and business who only know what they've been
told is "policy" but you can often make them bend or break those rules.
 
C

charlie

There is nothing more secure about *normal* faxing than sending *normal*
e-mails. After all, EVERY fax machine is equipped to receive a normal
(unencrypted) fax so it takes no effort by someone intercepting your fax
traffic to convert it to legible format. Same for unencrypted e-mail.

Encrypting e-mail is pretty easy and can be done for free. If you want
to *receive* encrypted emails, you get a free e-mail cert and then
digitally sign (with your public key) an e-mail you send to whomever you
want to receive their encrypted e-mails. You use your private key that
only you have to decrypt the e-mail.

Encrypting faxes is also possible - but just how many senders do you
know of that have installed the software needed to support it? How many
faxes has a recipient ever told you about that required encrypting the
fax traffic to their fax end? I've seen some article about encrypting
faxes but they don't encrypt the traffic outside the network and to the
recipient. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc751106.aspx
mentions encryption but that's BEFORE the fax device (between your host,
network, and fax device to the external world). That doesn't encrypt it
outside the fax device where interception occurs. Encrypted faxes
(using special fax devices or software) will look like chicken scratches
if printed on a normal fax machine.

Again, unless encrypted, there is nothing more secure about a fax
transmission than an e-mail transmission. That the gov't are idiots and
attached to archaic technology is not really a surprise to everyone not
in the gov't.

http://global-security-solutions.com/ProtectFax.html
http://www.crypto.ch/fileadmin/01_crypto/Datenblaetter/DS-HC-4221-EN_0711.pdf
http://www.nabishi.com/fax-encryption.htm

Do you know of *free* encrypting fax software or fax devices? Even if
so, do you send those encrypted faxes to anyone other than to yourself
(i.e., within divisions of your own company)? That is, to whom have you
ever sent an encrypted fax assuming you had the means to encrypt the fax
that you send?

I haven't dealt with any military entities to send faxes to know if they
truly refuse to accept e-mails. I have sent e-mails to several .gov
entities when they claimed they only accepted fax but were told that I
had no fax functionality (I lied and did but didn't want to do faxing
and preferred e-mail) and they'd give me an e-mail address. They'd
often say that they needed a hardcopy and why they needed a fax copy,
whereupon I would remind them that their fax machine is nothing much
more than a printer and they could also print their e-mails. On some
occasions, they would accept the e-mail but required me to send in a
paper copy; however, in all cases, they ended up printing the e-mail,
anyway (gee, the letter must've gotten lost in the postal mail so you'll
have to print the e-mail copy before the arbitrary deadline). There are
a lot of idiots in gov't and business who only know what they've been
told is "policy" but you can often make them bend or break those rules.
On the government side the concerns about Fax vs E-mail were (and as far
as I know) still about the same.

E-Mail sort of provided a traceable and exploitable path to an
individual machine. The concerns were based upon what else the machine
was used for, and what information was present. Most of the systems I
worked with were firewalled and behind servers. But, the government
(DOD) was very slack about keeping up with current threats, etc. It sort
of became an idea that the users needed to be protected, even from
themselves. Things have greatly improved in recent times, but many
offices became greatly concerned after 9/11, to the point that outside
emails (non .gov, .mil, etc were the only emails allowed through the
firewalls. The previously available lists of govt. employees email
addresses and email addresses were severely restricted as well. Quite a
few gov. servers were also set to allow connections only from P/Cs in
the .gov,etc. domains.

Outside faxes, on the other hand were allowed to dedicated conventional
fax machines, since there was literally no chance that the received fax
could cause any serious problems. The desktops that were originally
approved for connection to outside phone lines had modems removed.
Outgoing faxes from P/Cs were routed from the desktops to a "fax server"
that was behind a firewall, and was only allowed to send faxes, not
receive them.

In the middle 2000s, some office multifunction laser printer models had
a built in fax capability, along with a fax and email server. Client
software was needed to make full use. Security issues were found, due to
the software running on the printer. Some were then partially disabled
to avoid the issues by the owning organizations.
 
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S

Seum

charlie said:
On the government side the concerns about Fax vs E-mail were (and as far
as I know) still about the same.

E-Mail sort of provided a traceable and exploitable path to an
individual machine. The concerns were based upon what else the machine
was used for, and what information was present. Most of the systems I
worked with were firewalled and behind servers. But, the government
(DOD) was very slack about keeping up with current threats, etc. It sort
of became an idea that the users needed to be protected, even from
themselves. Things have greatly improved in recent times, but many
offices became greatly concerned after 9/11, to the point that outside
emails (non .gov, .mil, etc were the only emails allowed through the
firewalls. The previously available lists of govt. employees email
addresses and email addresses were severely restricted as well. Quite a
few gov. servers were also set to allow connections only from P/Cs in
the .gov,etc. domains.

Outside faxes, on the other hand were allowed to dedicated conventional
fax machines, since there was literally no chance that the received fax
could cause any serious problems. The desktops that were originally
approved for connection to outside phone lines had modems removed.
Outgoing faxes from P/Cs were routed from the desktops to a "fax server"
that was behind a firewall, and was only allowed to send faxes, not
receive them.

In the middle 2000s, some office multifunction laser printer models had
a built in fax capability, along with a fax and email server. Client
software was needed to make full use. Security issues were found, due to
the software running on the printer. Some were then partially disabled
to avoid the issues by the owning organizations.
Thank you all for the very interesting comments.

I had forgotten to ask about encrypted emails.
 
C

Cameo

VanguardLH said:
There is nothing more secure about *normal* faxing than sending
*normal*
e-mails. After all, EVERY fax machine is equipped to receive a normal
(unencrypted) fax so it takes no effort by someone intercepting your
fax
traffic to convert it to legible format. Same for unencrypted e-mail.
Except normal FAX travels through dedicated pair of copper wites
between the sender and receiver, just like landline phone calls. You can
only intercept it by patching yourself between the two which is not es
easy as intercepting something on the Internet with software tools.
Encrypting e-mail is pretty easy and can be done for free. If you
want
to *receive* encrypted emails, you get a free e-mail cert and then
digitally sign (with your public key) an e-mail you send to whomever
you
want to receive their encrypted e-mails. You use your private key
that
only you have to decrypt the e-mail.
I know about email encryption but the typical end-user finds it
cumbersome and won't use it.
 
V

VanguardLH

Cameo said:
Except normal FAX travels through dedicated pair of copper wites
between the sender and receiver, just like landline phone calls. You can
only intercept it by patching yourself between the two which is not es
easy as intercepting something on the Internet with software tools.
Since when has phone tapping been difficult?
I know about email encryption but the typical end-user finds it
cumbersome and won't use it.
And fax encryption is far more cumbersome and, so far in a quick search,
isn't free. When was the last time someone told you they have a
decrypting fax machine and that you had to use an encrypting fax device?
 
S

Seum

VanguardLH said:
Since when has phone tapping been difficult?


And fax encryption is far more cumbersome and, so far in a quick search,
isn't free. When was the last time someone told you they have a
decrypting fax machine and that you had to use an encrypting fax device?

I remember many years ago when I looked into encryption briefly and it
wasn't as complicated as you suggest. It was a matter of using a
password to decrypt the message.
 
S

Steve Silverwood

I have an ADVENT computer with Win 7 Home Edition and it is claimed to
have a built-in fax device but there is no trace of any fax hardware.
What they have is a worthless piece of crap. Avoid that computer.

Is it possible to send a fax from a computer without a modem via the
Internet to a regular fax machine? I would think it could be possible
but would require some software.
Yes, see eFax (www.efax.com).

-- //Steve//
 
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V

VanguardLH

Seum said:
I remember many years ago when I looked into encryption briefly and it
wasn't as complicated as you suggest. It was a matter of using a
password to decrypt the message.
I was focused on the fax *protocol* in how the scanned image is
transmitted and received (and how that data can be intercepted by any
other fax-compliant device). Sounds like you're thinking of where the
fax protocol is overlaid with a file transfer by having the binary
content (scanned image) represent a file rather than an image. For
example, you can transfer a password-encrypted .pdf file via fax
protocol but obviously you need to have the software/hardware to perform
that feat and so does the recipient of your fax. Similarly, there is
fax-to-email transfer protocol T.37 where a fax is sent that represents
an e-mail (converted from a TIFF image), delivered by e-mail, and can
thusly incorporate encryption as defined by e-mail standards (the e-mail
would be encrypted then converted to TIFF to send as image via fax and
decoded back to the hashed e-mail that can be decrypted with a password)
- but you're still using fax to transmit an image. You're using the
telephony network for file transfer. With the addition of FOIP, faxing
just seems even more stupid in converting a document for faxing over IP
to decode back on reception instead of using IP file transfer protocols
in the first place.

In most cases where the recipient demands receiving a fax copy of a
document has to do with the legality of the signature. Despite that
both faxes and e-mails are electronically transferred documents, the
laws in some countries recognize signatures as legal for faxes (despite
the electronic document can easily be modified) but don't see signatures
as legal in e-mailed documents. Gov'ts aren't expected to be up to date
and they often stick with staid technologies. They don't like
blackwalls so you turn your tire around to show the whitewall side.
Still the same tire but you've placated the uneducated requirements of
the viewer.

The OP wants to fax over IP (FOIP) but have the recipient at a telephone
number which likely means the recipient is on a telephony network. That
means a POP (point of presence) is needed at a telco to convert from IP
network to telephony. There are services that have these POPs. Some
are paid services, some are free. I've seen eFax, a paid provider,
offer the encryption service to their customers but the recipient also
must support encrypted faxes (so it's really a business service). You
send them a file via IP that they convert to a TIFF image to then send
over their IP-to-telephony POP to the telephone number of the
recipient). Obviously they're getting your file (before it gets
converted by them). They have to be able to scan that file so obviously
it cannot be encrypted. For paid services, they may be able to simply
convert the binary for the file into a scrambled looking TIFF and send
that but I haven't seen that as a free service (plus the recipient would
need to be able to handle the conversion of TIFFs to the original file
format).

Do you have an example of a free FOIP provider that includes encryption
for no charge? I'd like to know and probably others, too. Plus I'd
like to know how the recipient is going to automatically know the TIFF
they receive in a fax represents the binary contents of a file instead
of an image and what the recipient must install (software or hardware)
to do the conversion. I'm not sure that a simple TIFF-to-PDF converter
is going to work, especially for an encrypted file carried inside the
TIFF, but there might be something that works.
 
V

VanguardLH

Seum said:
How does that compare with using envelopes and stamps? I know about the
speed difference.
Fax: You send the document.
THEY print the document.
Mail: YOU print the document.
You send the document.
 
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Sending faxes via the internet is definitely possible as my company has been using internet fax for years now. I would recommend taking a look at FaxitFast as they let you select a local area code or toll-free number for the same price and faxes are delivered straight to your email as PDF files.

Sending faxes is as easy as sending an email with their service too... You just type the recipient's fax number in to address field followed by "@faxitfast.com" and you can attach up to 10 different files to be sent per outbound fax. This is an awesome feature because I can send faxes straight from my Blackberry when I'm not near the computer and my clients receive the fax on their regular fax machine.

Definitely a lot of internet fax providers out there, but I like FaxitFast because of the price, features and they let you try the service free for 30 days without slipping in any setup fees or fine print.
 
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