Retrieving laptop HD data


P

Paul

Gene said:
The documentation you link to doesn't show *anything*. It shows the
cable pointing to a monitor with no hint as to which is the power lead.

Do this: plug the straight lead at the Y-end into a USB port on the
computer. Plug the short thin lead at the Y-end into a 5-volt USB
supply.

With the computer powered on, plug the single end of the cable into the
drive enclosure.

BTW, does the cable really have a male A connector at the drive end as
the picture shows? That's unusual. IMO, unique.
It's a crazy power cable.

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/17-392-042-Z05?$S640W$

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/17-392-042-Z04?$S640W$

http://www.vantecusa.com/system/application/media/data_file/nst-200s2-su_installation_guide_web.pdf

From one customer review of this product - the cable is the problem...

"It turns out that the Y-cable and/or USB connector on the enclosure
have some kind of detent, so you have to push the cable connector
in until it "clicks". After I did that, USB also worked fine."

"The main reason for deducting 1 egg is that is that with this one
particular 250GB drive, I cannot see it via USB for some reason.
I'm not sure if it's because the laptop manufacturer (Toshiba) put
some kind of non-standard formatting on the drive. I can see the
drive if I use the eSATA connection."

Regarding the hard drive itself, *read the label on the drive carefully*
There could be something non-standard about the drive.

If it's a 512e drive, it should have worked.

http://storage.toshiba.com/docs/services-support-documents/toshiba_4kwhitepaper.pdf?sfvrsn=0

HTH,
Paul
 
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G

Gene E. Bloch

It's a crazy power cable.

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/17-392-042-Z05?$S640W$

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/17-392-042-Z04?$S640W$

http://www.vantecusa.com/system/application/media/data_file/nst-200s2-su_installation_guide_web.pdf

From one customer review of this product - the cable is the problem...

"It turns out that the Y-cable and/or USB connector on the enclosure
have some kind of detent, so you have to push the cable connector
in until it "clicks". After I did that, USB also worked fine."

"The main reason for deducting 1 egg is that is that with this one
particular 250GB drive, I cannot see it via USB for some reason.
I'm not sure if it's because the laptop manufacturer (Toshiba) put
some kind of non-standard formatting on the drive. I can see the
drive if I use the eSATA connection."

Regarding the hard drive itself, *read the label on the drive carefully*
There could be something non-standard about the drive.

If it's a 512e drive, it should have worked.

http://storage.toshiba.com/docs/services-support-documents/toshiba_4kwhitepaper.pdf?sfvrsn=0

HTH,
Paul
I hope cameo sees what you quoted about the cable and the detent. It
could help him.

As for your remark about "a crazy power cable" - absolutely!

BTW, your pdf link was a much more readable document than the jpg that
cameo posted, but the Newegg links were lots better than the Vantec
manual...
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

It's a crazy power cable.

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/17-392-042-Z05?$S640W$

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/17-392-042-Z04?$S640W$

http://www.vantecusa.com/system/application/media/data_file/nst-200s2-su_installation_guide_web.pdf

From one customer review of this product - the cable is the problem...

"It turns out that the Y-cable and/or USB connector on the enclosure
have some kind of detent, so you have to push the cable connector
in until it "clicks". After I did that, USB also worked fine."

"The main reason for deducting 1 egg is that is that with this one
particular 250GB drive, I cannot see it via USB for some reason.
I'm not sure if it's because the laptop manufacturer (Toshiba) put
some kind of non-standard formatting on the drive. I can see the
drive if I use the eSATA connection."

Regarding the hard drive itself, *read the label on the drive carefully*
There could be something non-standard about the drive.

If it's a 512e drive, it should have worked.

http://storage.toshiba.com/docs/services-support-documents/toshiba_4kwhitepaper.pdf?sfvrsn=0

HTH,
Paul
 
C

cameo

philo said:
Must be an old mobo then. A PCI SATA controller is about $15
you'd also need an adapter for the power connection if your PSU has
only molex
Indeed old; late '90s vintage when SCSI bus was king. I just kept it
around for just these kinds of situations, and for sentimental value as
I assembled it myself.
 
C

cameo

Gene E. Bloch said:
The documentation you link to doesn't show *anything*. It shows the
cable pointing to a monitor with no hint as to which is the power
lead.

Do this: plug the straight lead at the Y-end into a USB port on the
computer. Plug the short thin lead at the Y-end into a 5-volt USB
supply.

With the computer powered on, plug the single end of the cable into
the
drive enclosure.
As I said, I've tried every combination possible to no avail.
BTW, does the cable really have a male A connector at the drive end as
the picture shows? That's unusual. IMO, unique.
Yes, all 3 all male connectors.
 
P

philo 

Indeed old; late '90s vintage when SCSI bus was king. I just kept it
around for just these kinds of situations, and for sentimental value as
I assembled it myself.

Yep, I make use of all the old machines I possibly can...

The only machine I have with a SCSI drive is my trusty IBM PS/2
 
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C

cameo

Paul said:
Yes, that PDF file shows the paper doc I've got, too. I wasn't hunting
for it on the Web, so I just snapped one side of the doc with my phone
and uploaded it. That's why it's not as clear as the PDF file.

BTW, my enclosure does not have the eSATA connector.
From one customer review of this product - the cable is the problem...

"It turns out that the Y-cable and/or USB connector on the
enclosure
have some kind of detent, so you have to push the cable connector
in until it "clicks". After I did that, USB also worked fine."
Now that's something worth to try. I wish it was that simple.
"The main reason for deducting 1 egg is that is that with this one
particular 250GB drive, I cannot see it via USB for some reason.
I'm not sure if it's because the laptop manufacturer (Toshiba) put
some kind of non-standard formatting on the drive. I can see the
drive if I use the eSATA connection."

Regarding the hard drive itself, *read the label on the drive
carefully*
There could be something non-standard about the drive.

If it's a 512e drive, it should have worked.

http://storage.toshiba.com/docs/services-support-documents/toshiba_4kwhitepaper.pdf?sfvrsn=0
Kinda' interesting that your drive size is also 250 GB, though mine is
made by WD. Here is it's label:

http://i45.tinypic.com/29xi5qo.jpg
 
K

Ken Springer

Yep, I make use of all the old machines I possibly can...

The only machine I have with a SCSI drive is my trusty IBM PS/2
The Atari computers that use the Motorola 68000 series processors also
used SCSI drives. I've got a clone of those, 68060 processor, and uses
both IDE and SCSI drives.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.3
Firefox 19.0.2
Thunderbird 17.0.4
LibreOffice 4.0.1.2
 
C

cameo

The documentation you link to doesn't show *anything*. It shows the
cable pointing to a monitor with no hint as to which is the power
lead.
That was too much to expect from the Chinese tech writers, I guess. But
at least the English grammar was OK.
Do this: plug the straight lead at the Y-end into a USB port on the
computer. Plug the short thin lead at the Y-end into a 5-volt USB
supply.

With the computer powered on, plug the single end of the cable into
the
drive enclosure.
I tried it but it's still "Unrecognized USB Device." And I also wiggled
the connectors to see if they were loose. But nothing.
 
C

cameo

Ken Springer said:
The Atari computers that use the Motorola 68000 series processors also
used SCSI drives. I've got a clone of those, 68060 processor, and
uses both IDE and SCSI drives.
But we paid premium priced for SCSI drives, too. And they were very
reliable. I doubt IDE drives would have lasted me this long.
 
P

Paul

cameo said:
Yes, that PDF file shows the paper doc I've got, too. I wasn't hunting
for it on the Web, so I just snapped one side of the doc with my phone
and uploaded it. That's why it's not as clear as the PDF file.

BTW, my enclosure does not have the eSATA connector.

Now that's something worth to try. I wish it was that simple.


Kinda' interesting that your drive size is also 250 GB, though mine is
made by WD. Here is it's label:

http://i45.tinypic.com/29xi5qo.jpg
WD2500BEVS. I see nothing special on the label. It's not an AF drive.

The jumper block document shows a "Reduced Power Spinup", but I doubt that's
going to help measurably. And besides, who has 2mm jumpers available
for the job ? The jumpers needed might not be 0.1" variety.

http://wdc.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/search/1/a_id/5391#jumper

You can't always trust those generic jumper web pages. The best source of
info, is the OEM spec PDF, but those are harder to find. That's
a detailed PDF, with all the information in one document.

Paul
 
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C

cameo

Paul said:
WD2500BEVS. I see nothing special on the label. It's not an AF drive.

The jumper block document shows a "Reduced Power Spinup", but I doubt
that's
going to help measurably. And besides, who has 2mm jumpers available
for the job ? The jumpers needed might not be 0.1" variety.

http://wdc.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/search/1/a_id/5391#jumper

You can't always trust those generic jumper web pages. The best source
of
info, is the OEM spec PDF, but those are harder to find. That's
a detailed PDF, with all the information in one document.
I see a jumper block there but all pins are open, without any jumpers on
them. But I don't understand how placing some jumpers there would help
me in my current predicament. Would you mind explaining?
 
P

Paul

cameo said:
I see a jumper block there but all pins are open, without any jumpers on
them. But I don't understand how placing some jumpers there would help
me in my current predicament. Would you mind explaining?
If you inserted the "Reduced Power Spinup" jumper, that reduces
the current during the first ten seconds, from 5V @ 1A to some
lesser number. The drive label makes a reference to the current
flow, as 0.55A, but that is for read/write commands. Idle power
is lower. Spinup power (initial power needs) are higher. Companies
hesitate to offer spinup power numbers (because it will scare
their customers). Some drive brands, no spinup power numbers are
available in any of the documents for the drive model. It's a "secret".

If you insert the jumper (only works on this particular generation
of drives), it reduces the peak current flow required.

And that only makes a difference, if this is a powering issue.
A powering issue can be caused by the computer fuses opening at
too low a current flow level.

Laptops can use chips like this to limit the current flow on USB.
A silicon device with MOSFETs to control current flow.

http://www.micrel.com/index.php/en/...usb-power-switches/article/64-mic2545a-2.html

"...integrated high-side power switches optimized
for low-loss DC power switching"

Desktop computers use Polyfuses, which are crystalline materials
that melt when too much current flow. When the current flow is
removed, the material re-forms into crystal form, and conducts
electricity. That's how a desktop protects the USB ports, and yet,
the fuses do not need to be replaced.

These green things, with the notch on end, are one means to
protect a desktop USB port from overcurrent. Originally
invented by Littelfuse corporation. The numbers printed on top,
hint at the maximum current flow allowed.

http://www.1394ta.org/images/products/April09WebFocus/Littelfuse_2016L.jpg

Your two-headed USB cable, is suppose to help solve the
current flow issue. So I don't understand why your setup
doesn't work. Test the USB enclosure, with another drive ?
Does that work ?

Paul
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

On Fri, 29 Mar 2013 18:05:13 -0700, Gene E. Bloch wrote:

OK, I snipped the old content, and there was no new content, in the
above mentioned near duplicate of a message I had sent about 20 minutes
earlier.

I have no idea where the empty message came from. Another mystery.

It was probably my fault, of course, but I have no idea how I did it.
I'll try not to do it again :)

<everything else snipped>
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

As I said, I've tried every combination possible to no avail.

Yes, all 3 all male connectors.
Thanks. Of course, I should have withdrawn my question above after
seeing Paul's post :)

Well, that setup *is* weird, but that's no reason for it not to work.
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

That was too much to expect from the Chinese tech writers, I guess. But
at least the English grammar was OK.
Thanks - that was a good laugh!

And laughter is about the only thing left to help with this problem, I
guess...
 
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P

philo 

SATA laptop drives are standard drives; they have the same power and
data connections as a 3.5" drive. Something else must be wrong...
Nope...the power requirements are different.

The laptop drives' connections were identical to that of a standard
drive.It plugged into the enclosure with no problems but when powered up
just clicked.

When the laptop drive was run on the machines' PSU and installed
internally, it worked fine.

The enclosure also works perfectly with any "standard" drive connected
to it.

Upon investigation it turned out that the laptop drive runs only on 5v
and does not use the 12v connection. The current needed by the 5v
circuit of a laptop drive is higher than that of a standard drive.
The enclosure was obviously built very close to tolerance and would not
supply the additional current.


That is why I advised the OP to install the drive internally.
 
P

Paul

philo said:
Nope...the power requirements are different.

The laptop drives' connections were identical to that of a standard
drive.It plugged into the enclosure with no problems but when powered up
just clicked.

When the laptop drive was run on the machines' PSU and installed
internally, it worked fine.

The enclosure also works perfectly with any "standard" drive connected
to it.

Upon investigation it turned out that the laptop drive runs only on 5v
and does not use the 12v connection. The current needed by the 5v
circuit of a laptop drive is higher than that of a standard drive.
The enclosure was obviously built very close to tolerance and would not
supply the additional current.


That is why I advised the OP to install the drive internally.
Some 3.5" enclosures, they use a 12V only regulator as the wall power
source. The 5V is done with a 7805 on the adapter board inside
the enclosure. A TO-220 7805 can do 1 amp, with sufficient
cooling. But you know they'll be using the cheesy smaller one
instead. And that one would overheat and cut off. And a 2.5"
drive needs approximately 1 amp for the first ten seconds or so.

I don't like to analyze the design of my little enclosure
too carefully, because what I see won't exactly please me.
The wall adapter doesn't have the right rating either,
and makes me wonder how it can spin up a 3.5" drive...

Paul
 
P

philo 

Some 3.5" enclosures, they use a 12V only regulator as the wall power
source. The 5V is done with a 7805 on the adapter board inside
the enclosure. A TO-220 7805 can do 1 amp, with sufficient
cooling. But you know they'll be using the cheesy smaller one
instead. And that one would overheat and cut off. And a 2.5"
drive needs approximately 1 amp for the first ten seconds or so.

I don't like to analyze the design of my little enclosure
too carefully, because what I see won't exactly please me.
The wall adapter doesn't have the right rating either,
and makes me wonder how it can spin up a 3.5" drive...

Paul

I have one IDE enclosure in my workshop that works but the 5 volt supply
is closer to 4v.

Another one I just have powered from an old AT type power supply.
Kind of bulky but no problems with voltages!
 
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G

Gene E. Bloch

Nope...the power requirements are different.
It remains true, as I said, that they have the same connections.

And in fact, laptop drivers require no more power than 3.5" drives.

I just looked at two drives that happen to be convenient to hand.
3.5": 5V @ 0.72A and 12V @0.52A
2.5": 5V @ 0.55A

Do note, however, that a USB port is required to provide only 0.5A at
5V, and the adapter itself will obviously use some power (thus the Y
cable or external power connection).
The laptop drives' connections were identical to that of a standard
drive.It plugged into the enclosure with no problems but when powered up
just clicked.

When the laptop drive was run on the machines' PSU and installed
internally, it worked fine.

The enclosure also works perfectly with any "standard" drive connected
to it.

Upon investigation it turned out that the laptop drive runs only on 5v
and does not use the 12v connection. The current needed by the 5v
circuit of a laptop drive is higher than that of a standard drive.
From my two drives above, you are saying that 0.72A < 0.55A.

I should look at another drive. Hang on a second.

OK, this is a slim-line 3.5" drive; it says 5V at 0.75A and 12V at
0.75A.
The enclosure was obviously built very close to tolerance and would not
supply the additional current.

That is why I advised the OP to install the drive internally.
USB docks with external power supplies or USB adapters with external
power supplies should both work fine with both drive sizes; if they
don't, there is a problem somewhere. But who knows where?

USB adapters or portable drives without external power are another
issue...
 

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