MBR and 3Tb drive question


P

pjp

I have a 3Tb Seagate external hooked up. Windows seemed to see it all
when I initially plugged it in but as my habit I formatted it using
whatever defaults Windows presented using one partition for entire disk.

It now has over 1Tb on it and everything appears fine, e.g. it states
what's used and what's free properly.

What I notice though is that it appears to be formatted NTFS and there's
no indication of the GPT format that docs state is required to access
entire drive (Volumes/Populate shows it as NTFS).

Can I expect a problem at some time when capacity reaches some limit or
something?

I did go into Format under Computer Management/Disk Drives but the only
option presented was NTFS. I Cancelled out once didn't see any option
for GPT.

Running Win7 32 bit Home Premium.
 
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P

Paul

pjp said:
I have a 3Tb Seagate external hooked up. Windows seemed to see it all
when I initially plugged it in but as my habit I formatted it using
whatever defaults Windows presented using one partition for entire disk.

It now has over 1Tb on it and everything appears fine, e.g. it states
what's used and what's free properly.

What I notice though is that it appears to be formatted NTFS and there's
no indication of the GPT format that docs state is required to access
entire drive (Volumes/Populate shows it as NTFS).

Can I expect a problem at some time when capacity reaches some limit or
something?

I did go into Format under Computer Management/Disk Drives but the only
option presented was NTFS. I Cancelled out once didn't see any option
for GPT.

Running Win7 32 bit Home Premium.
If it is reporting more than 2.2TB in size, then that
pretty well says it is GPT.

My 3TB drive isn't GPT, and the best I can do is get 2.2TB reported
in one chunk, and the rest becomes a second chunk (accessible
via Acronis "fake a second disk" driver). The first portion is
MBR, and in principle I could boot from it with my old motherboard.

I wonder if Diskpart (Microsoft, command line) can list the
type of your drive ?

Some of my other utilities are too old for this sort of thing.

You'd think, being Microsoft, they'd have yet another goofy
coloring in Disk Management, for GPT :)

OK, here's a picture of Disk Management. The text section at
the top, tells you it is GPT. But no new goofy color below.
There is a GPT and an MBR disk that are both "blue".

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/Bb457110.f12zs01_big(l=en-us).jpg

( from http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb457110.aspx )

I'm kinda stuck with my MBR setup now, because the disk is pretty full.

Paul
 
S

Seth

pjp said:
What I notice though is that it appears to be formatted NTFS and there's
no indication of the GPT format that docs state is required to access
entire drive (Volumes/Populate shows it as NTFS).
NTFS is a file system, "format type". GPT is a partition type. The 2 are
mutually exclusive and your drive is currently both. It is partitioned GPT
(as opposed to the older MBR) and then formatted as NTFS (as opposed to
FAT32).
 
T

Tim Slattery

pjp said:
What I notice though is that it appears to be formatted NTFS and there's
no indication of the GPT format that docs state is required to access
entire drive (Volumes/Populate shows it as NTFS).
Two different things. The GPT is a partition table format that can
handle disks larger than 2TB. NTFS is a file system, which may be
found on one or more of the partitions described in the GPT.

Look at the disk with disk management app. If it shows all three TB,
then the GPT is in place. Probably you'll see it report 3TB and a
great deal of that will be waiting for you to create a partition on
it.
I did go into Format under Computer Management/Disk Drives but the only
option presented was NTFS. I Cancelled out once didn't see any option
for GPT.
Again, they are not mutually exclusive. They are different structures
that handle very different things.
 
T

Tim Slattery

NTFS is a file system, "format type". GPT is a partition type. The 2 are
mutually exclusive
That should be "partition table type" and "*NOT* mutually exclusive".
and your drive is currently both.
That's true. The structure keeping track of partitions is the GPT
(GUID Partition Table). The NTFS file system is installed on one of
the partitions defined in the GPT.
 
P

pjp

Two different things. The GPT is a partition table format that can
handle disks larger than 2TB. NTFS is a file system, which may be
found on one or more of the partitions described in the GPT.

Look at the disk with disk management app. If it shows all three TB,
then the GPT is in place. Probably you'll see it report 3TB and a
great deal of that will be waiting for you to create a partition on
it.


Again, they are not mutually exclusive. They are different structures
that handle very different things.
Disk shows all 3Tb, about 33% used right now.

Ok, seems all's in order. Thanks everyone
 
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G

Gene E. Bloch

That should be "partition table type" and "*NOT* mutually exclusive".
In Seth's remark,
s/mutually exclusive/orthogonal/

They are orthogonal, which *is* a kind of mutual exclusivity :)
 
Z

Zaphod Beeblebrox

On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:11:22 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch" <not-
(e-mail address removed)> wrote in article <tr12wqz9q4js
[email protected]>...
In Seth's remark,
s/mutually exclusive/orthogonal/

They are orthogonal, which *is* a kind of mutual exclusivity :)
In what definition of orthogonal?

It's rare that I don't agree with you, but if you can have both GPT and
NTFS then by definition they are not mutually exclusive.
 
S

Seth

Zaphod Beeblebrox said:
On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:11:22 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch" <not-
(e-mail address removed)> wrote in article <tr12wqz9q4js
[email protected]>...
In what definition of orthogonal?

It's rare that I don't agree with you, but if you can have both GPT and
NTFS then by definition they are not mutually exclusive.
Did I get the term reversed? Basically I was saying being GPT is not tied
to NTFS. They are different items and don't conflict.
 
C

Chuck Anderson

pjp said:
Disk shows all 3Tb, about 33% used right now.

Ok, seems all's in order. Thanks everyone
You can see the partition type if you open Device Manager -> Disk Drives
-> select the drive in question and click Properties then select the
Volumes tab -> click Populate and it will populate the fields. Note
Partition style.

--
*****************************
Chuck Anderson • Boulder, CO
http://cycletourist.com
Turn Off, Tune Out, Drop In
*****************************
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:11:22 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch" <not-
(e-mail address removed)> wrote in article <tr12wqz9q4js
[email protected]>...
In what definition of orthogonal?

It's rare that I don't agree with you, but if you can have both GPT and
NTFS then by definition they are not mutually exclusive.
Orthogonal, in mathematics, and hence in physics and engineering (inter
alia), means coordinates that are at right angles in Euclidean geometry
and similar things in other geometries.

Thus any change in one dimension is completely independent of changes in
other dimensions. E.g., you can change x all day and y is not affected.
Similarly with longitude vs latitude or (at least in linear systems)
frequency vs amplitude.

By extension, in mathematics it also means other variables that are
independent of each other in a similar fashion, as I already alluded to
with frequency vs amplitude.

Another view of the idea of orthogonal is that an extension in one
dimension has a zero projection in the other dimension; this is
equivalent to what I said above.

Thus it is fair to say that the file system and the partition type are
orthogonal. They are mutually exclusive in the sense that, as you
already have pointed out, you can change one without affecting the
other.

Orthogonal is really a better choice of terms, but not everyone knows
the term in the mathematical sense.
 
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K

Ken Blake

By extension, in mathematics it also means other variables that are
independent of each other in a similar fashion, as I already alluded to
with frequency vs amplitude.

Another view of the idea of orthogonal is that an extension in one
dimension has a zero projection in the other dimension; this is
equivalent to what I said above.

Thus it is fair to say that the file system and the partition type are
orthogonal. They are mutually exclusive in the sense that, as you
already have pointed out, you can change one without affecting the
other.

Orthogonal is really a better choice of terms, but not everyone knows
the term in the mathematical sense.

I know the term in the mathematical sense, but I've never before seen
it used the way you used it by extension.
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

I know the term in the mathematical sense, but I've never before seen
it used the way you used it by extension.
I've been retired long enough to have forgotten any explicit examples,
but it seemed to be a common usage back in the day. Next opportunity
(not for a week or so) I'll check with some geek friends of mine to see
how they use it.

It's certainly true that I use it both mathematically and metaphorically
:)
 
B

B.Borbiro

I know the term in the mathematical sense, but I've never before seen
it used the way you used it by extension.
For those who have difficulty with the English language:
'mutually exclusive' means that if you have one of the options then you
can't have the other.

The phrase is not relevant in the GPT / NTFS discussion.

Ballpoint!
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

For those who have difficulty with the English language:
'mutually exclusive' means that if you have one of the options then you
can't have the other.

The phrase is not relevant in the GPT / NTFS discussion.

Ballpoint!
Thanks for the help.
 
Z

Zaphod Beeblebrox

For those who have difficulty with the English language:
'mutually exclusive' means that if you have one of the options then you
can't have the other.

The phrase is not relevant in the GPT / NTFS discussion.
^^ This.
 
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J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

In message <[email protected]>, B.Borbiro <[email protected]>
writes:
[]
The phrase is not relevant in the GPT / NTFS discussion.

Ballpoint!
Biro? Pencil? Fountain pen?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If you like making stuff there's always somebody ready to say that its
ridiculous. But, actually, I don't think it is. In fact, enthusiasms are good.
Hobbies are healthy. They don't harm anybody. - James May in RT, 6-12
November 2010.
 
K

Ken Blake

I recall seeing and being amused by a brand of biro (must have been in
France) called caran d'ache.

Presumably from the Russian ????????.

As you undoubtedly know, the Russian word for pencil is Karandash.

I learned that years ago, when I learned a few words of Russian. But
what I don't know is whether the Russian is from the French or vice
versa. Can you help?

Yes, I know I could google it, but at the moment I'm too lazy.

Ken
 
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G

Gene E. Bloch

As you undoubtedly know, the Russian word for pencil is Karandash.

I learned that years ago, when I learned a few words of Russian. But
what I don't know is whether the Russian is from the French or vice
versa. Can you help?

Yes, I know I could google it, but at the moment I'm too lazy.

Ken
I didn't type "????????", I typed karandash in Cyrillic.

It looked good when I hit send...maybe you can't read the character set
I used (whatever it was).
 

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