BT & Talk Talk winDigital Economy Act Judical Review

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BT & Talk Talk win Digital Economy Act Judical Review

The legislation is designed to combat illegal filesharing activity. I now see the Government are actually doing something positive for a change, or are they going the right way about it? I can see what is trying to be done but this will be another, quite rightly debate on PRIVACY for those have never broken any kind of law revolving around illegal downloading.


See article; http://top10.com/broadband/news/2010/11/bt_and_talktalk_win_digital_economy_act_judicial_review/
 
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This what your main aim is on the forum to ridicule what people post?

thats 3 or 4 times now.
 

Fire cat

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This what your main aim is on the forum to ridicule what people post?

thats 3 or 4 times now.
No, it definitly isn't.

If you actually search for what HADOPI is, you'd see that what I said is totally on topic and serious.

HADOPI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HADOPI
It's a french law (that I admit I hate) introduced in 2009 about rights on the internet -> thus it has to do with illegal downloading.
 
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No, it definitly isn't.

If you actually search for what HADOPI is, you'd see that what I said is totally on topic and serious.

HADOPI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HADOPI
It's a french law (that I admit I hate) introduced in 2009 about rights on the internet -> thus it has to do with illegal downloading.
I apologize, when i went to that link all i seen was copyright infringment and though you were suggesting that for my post :eek: head is up my ass today.
 

Core

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Wikipedia said:
The new process, which will come into force when Ofcom's regulatory code is approved by Parliament, begins with rightsholders gathering lists of Internet Protocol addresses which they believe have infringed their copyrights. (This data could be gathered most easily by a rightsholder connecting to a Peer-to-Peer download of a work they own, and noting the other IP addresses to which their computer connects.) They would then send each IP number to the appropriate Internet Service Provider . . . The ISP must then send a notification to the subscriber in question. . . . The next stage in proceedings involves the rightsholder requesting a "copyright infringement list" from the ISP. This contains an anonymous list of all subscribers who have "reached the threshold set in the [Ofcom] code" with regard to infringement reports for their works. . . . The rightsholder can then approach a judge to gain a court order to identify some or all of the subscribers on the list, and with that information launch standard copyright infringement litigation against them.
In other words, it would go like this: Rightsholder downloads his own copyrighted work from a P2P site and records the IPs of other users serving the files or downloading them. Then the rightsholder gives the IP to the ISP, which identifies the owner by the IP and shakes a finger at them. Eventually the ISP sends back a list of anonymous users (just their IPs). The rightsholder then goes to a judge with the list and says "I want you to give me a court order forcing the ISP to reveal the identities of the people on this list so we can sue them!"

First of all, if a rightsholder downloads a torrent consisting of their own work, recording the IPs of those people who are connected to the same torrent is NOT going to give them sufficient information as to whether the user is even committing an act of piracy. Single files don't have seeds or leeches, torrents do; if I connect to a torrent consisting of Office 2007, a "clever" .NFO text file, and a keygen, according to this law Microsoft could record my IP and eventually ask a judge to order the ISP to reveal my name so they could sue me, even if all I downloaded was the keygen (which is NOT against the law).

The big problem with this type of procedure is that the supposed plaintiff of a future lawsuit is the sole creator of the evidence based on which a judge will order a person's privacy to be assaulted. Furthermore, it forces the hand of the Internet Service Provider to relinquish personally identifiable information about their client before the client has even been charged with anything or found guilty of anything, or before any evidence whatsoever has been submitted to a court of law against them - with the exception of a list of IPs which has been generated by the very entity which stands to gain something from litigation in the first place.

Find some other way than an IP address to connect your claim to a specific individual. Until they can do that, this is all hogwash. My IP is not my social security number. Joe Twelvepack next door shouldn't have to pay hundreds of thousands for songs he never downloaded just because he didn't know how to secure his wireless router.
 

Fire cat

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This, my friends, is why I never use Torrents - and use a proxy in holland.
 

Core

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This, my friends, is why I never use Torrents - and use a proxy in holland.
There's nothing illegal about torrents. You can kill a man with a rock, doesn't make rocks against the law. For someone like myself who downloads 10-15 Linux distros each month, torrents are a huge help.
 

Nibiru2012

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Back a few months ago I had a couple of issues with one ISP provider shutting off the internet for less than a day. I just told them my brother-in-law was in town and downloaded something without my knowledge.

I "promised' the ISP I would take the bittorrent client off of the computer.

As Core states, there's nothing illegal about torrents or the sites. It is HOW it is used is the issue. In Texas its not illegal to own a handgun or a rifle, but if I sit on the front porch shooting Grackles (aka rat birds) sitting on power lines then there are issues.
 

draceena

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Since IP numbers are not set in stone what to prevent my neighbor from downloading copyrighted stuff and then for his IP to be assigend to me the week after and I end up in jail for nothing. Same as already mentioned, an unprotected network being used would punish the innocent for something they did not do. Then there is IP spoofing,and again innocent people get targeted....there are just way too many "what if's" and "maybe's" that all the litigation thats happened already should have been thrown out of court.
 
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Since IP numbers are not set in stone what to prevent my neighbor from downloading copyrighted stuff and then for his IP to be assigend to me the week after and I end up in jail for nothing. Same as already mentioned, an unprotected network being used would punish the innocent for something they did not do. Then there is IP spoofing,and again innocent people get targeted....there are just way too many "what if's" and "maybe's" that all the litigation thats happened already should have been thrown out of court.
I would like to think that this is all based on evidence found on within a PC. Evidence found because of leads that were pointing to a specific IP address.
 

Core

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I would like to think that this is all based on evidence found on within a PC. Evidence found because of leads that were pointing to a specific IP address.
In the Jammie Thomas case, of which you've undoubtedly heard - the mother who has to pay $222,000 for downloading 24 songs - no such evidence was ever presented, nor was her hard drive or its contents ever part of the evidence. The jurors have also been quoted as saying they didn't believe any "spoofing" was possible (clearly a panel of networking specialists) and that they "wanted to send a message."

This is what you get in civil court.
 

Fire cat

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Since IP numbers are not set in stone what to prevent my neighbor from downloading copyrighted stuff and then for his IP to be assigend to me the week after and I end up in jail for nothing.
Yes, but the ISP does know what IP what assigned to which client at what time.
I remember reading something like this in the HADOPI docs.
 

Core

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Yes, but the ISP does know what IP what assigned to which client at what time.
I remember reading something like this in the HADOPI docs.
Only the external IP, which is assigned to the ISP's customer. In most households, more than one person uses the same connection. I can see an unprotected wireless Linksys router offering wifi in my neighborhood right now. I could connect to it and download a bunch of shit, and as far as his ISP is aware it's he who's doing the downloading. They only see the external IP they've assigned to their customer; his router provides machines connected to it with internal IPs via DHCP and serves clients with NAT.
 
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TrainableMan

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I have a different thinking. All that is transmitted is a bunch of 0s and 1s. What I think some bright person should do is show that getting a few blocks of information here and there is no proof at all of what is being sent, it all depends how it is put together. There should be a way to create several files that would have a few blocks in common but be totally different files.

Or just move next to a McDonald's or Dennys and use their free wi-fi ;)
 

Elmer BeFuddled

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Or just move next to a McDonald's or Dennys and use their free wi-fi ;)
The Public House next door but one to me has "Free Wi-Fi" so as long as I disconnect my Hardwire and plug in my Wireless Dongle, I'm laughing! And if they're not switched on I'll just link into the BT Modem I can pick up, whoever that belongs to. That's on 24/7. I've asked around but can't locate the owner.
 

Core

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I've never used the wifi at a place like Mickey D's (the only public place was the campus network), but I wonder if they block all ports but 80/8080.
 

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