Win 8, first impressions.

[Kenny Cargill]

Looked at friends PC running Win 8, first time I've seen it.
Started up, first thing i thought, where the &*!£'s the Start button, wanted
to see what programmes were installed. Thought hit the Win key, that'll
bring up the programme list but it brought up a screen full of big squares.
Had to open Explorer then 2 Program folders just to see what was on the PC.
I thought some sort of Windows corruption or someone had been messing about
with settings but discovered this is the way it's supposed to be! Felt like
throwing it out the window!
Had been considering dual booting with the 90 day evaluation version to see
what it's like but won't waste my time on it now.
I know some of you will say that it can be made to function like Win 7 but
then what's the point of it.

Kenny CArgill

 

[choro]

Looked at friends PC running Win 8, first time I've seen it.
Started up, first thing i thought, where the &*!£'s the Start button,
wanted to see what programmes were installed. Thought hit the Win key,
that'll bring up the programme list but it brought up a screen full of
big squares. Had to open Explorer then 2 Program folders just to see
what was on the PC. I thought some sort of Windows corruption or someone
had been messing about with settings but discovered this is the way it's
supposed to be! Felt like throwing it out the window!
Had been considering dual booting with the 90 day evaluation version to
see what it's like but won't waste my time on it now.
I know some of you will say that it can be made to function like Win 7
but then what's the point of it.

What's the point of it? Money, money, MONEY!
I guess it will be OK for touch-screen fanatics but I haven't got a
touchscreen and I wouldn't touch one with a bargepole. NOT the size of
screen (24 inch) I use at home which I can only touch if I move my whole
torso forward another 8 inches!

 

[Ed Cryer]

Looked at friends PC running Win 8, first time I've seen it.
Started up, first thing i thought, where the &*!£'s the Start button,
wanted to see what programmes were installed. Thought hit the Win key,
that'll bring up the programme list but it brought up a screen full of
big squares. Had to open Explorer then 2 Program folders just to see
what was on the PC. I thought some sort of Windows corruption or someone
had been messing about with settings but discovered this is the way it's
supposed to be! Felt like throwing it out the window!
Had been considering dual booting with the 90 day evaluation version to
see what it's like but won't waste my time on it now.
I know some of you will say that it can be made to function like Win 7
but then what's the point of it.

Kenny CArgill

I can see the value of it on a touch-screen tablet. My guess is that MS
felt they had to come up with something to challenge Apple's iOS. And
then some bright spark said let's combine a tablet OS and a PC OS into one.
If you used Win8 solely on a tablet, and then moved to a PC, I suppose
you'd find it better than Win7 because of your familiarity with it.
MS are probably also betting on tablets sweeping PCs into a distant
second place. I'm not so sure that will happen too soon.

Ed

 

[Jan Alter]

Looked at friends PC running Win 8, first time I've seen it.
Started up, first thing i thought, where the &*!£'s the Start button,
wanted to see what programmes were installed. Thought hit the Win key,
that'll bring up the programme list but it brought up a screen full of big
squares. Had to open Explorer then 2 Program folders just to see what was
on the PC. I thought some sort of Windows corruption or someone had been
messing about with settings but discovered this is the way it's supposed
to be! Felt like throwing it out the window!
Had been considering dual booting with the 90 day evaluation version to
see what it's like but won't waste my time on it now.
I know some of you will say that it can be made to function like Win 7 but
then what's the point of it.

Kenny CArgill

K.C's feelings were mine exactly. I was ready to throw my sister's laptop
out the window when I attempted to see what programs were on it and couldn't
locate a familiar path to them and meandered for 5 minutes through the
jungle of non-intuitive grafitti. However, downloading Clasic Shell made
Win8 bearable again.

 

[Boscoe]

Looked at friends PC running Win 8, first time I've seen it.
Started up, first thing i thought, where the &*!£'s the Start button,
wanted to see what programmes were installed. Thought hit the Win key,
that'll bring up the programme list but it brought up a screen full of
big squares. Had to open Explorer then 2 Program folders just to see
what was on the PC. I thought some sort of Windows corruption or someone
had been messing about with settings but discovered this is the way it's
supposed to be! Felt like throwing it out the window!
Had been considering dual booting with the 90 day evaluation version to
see what it's like but won't waste my time on it now.
I know some of you will say that it can be made to function like Win 7
but then what's the point of it.

Kenny CArgill

well, you certainly must be prepared for a steep learning cure but there
are real improvements in performance. Windows 8 is faster to start up
and boosts battery life. It's also the most secure O/S Microsoft has
produced. You can't lose anything on your computer with Search Charm
but it can become a chore to look for everything.

To be fair, it is a bit of a mess, even for experienced computer users.

But I don't think there will be any turning back as tablets are
outselling PCs.

 

[NY]

well, you certainly must be prepared for a steep learning cure but there
are real improvements in performance. Windows 8 is faster to start up and
boosts battery life. It's also the most secure O/S Microsoft has
produced. You can't lose anything on your computer with Search Charm but
it can become a chore to look for everything.

Yes yes yes. They've made improvements to it. That's great. If that's all
they'd done, Windows 8 would be fantastic.

But... they've also "broken" it by making major usability changes to it -
bigger than any change since Windows 3 -> Windows 95. And that's what most
people will remember: can anyone who has experience with any/all previous
version of Windows still use it without major unlearning and relearning?
It's like MS deciding that a car steering wheel is better on the roof and
the pedals operated by the hands, and saying "don't worry, you'll get used
to it and prefer it given a bit of time".

It was the height of arrogance for Microsoft to change the user-interface
like this, without providing an easy way of reverting to classic mode. They
should have said "We've made what we think are dramatic improvements to the
user interface and *we* think you'll prefer them, but in case you don't,
this is what to make Windows 8 work like Windows 7 but with all the none-UI
improvements like performance and security". Also, the assumption that users
of desktop/laptop PCs (keyboard, mouse) would prefer a
tablet/phone/touchscreen UI is mind-blowingly naive and arrogant.

I suspect that few existing users of Windows will *choose* Windows 8; that
the only sales will be grudge purchases because people need a new/additional
PC and can *only* get Windows 8 on it because Windows 7 is not offered by
the vendor. Is Windows 7 still available in CD form (ie not preinstalled on
a PC) or have MS withdrawn those from sale as well now?

Thanks goodness for the various downloads like Classic Shell which make
Windows 8 sufficient like the UI for Windows 7 to be usable.

 

[Boscoe]

Yes yes yes. They've made improvements to it. That's great. If that's
all they'd done, Windows 8 would be fantastic.

But... they've also "broken" it by making major usability changes to it
- bigger than any change since Windows 3 -> Windows 95. And that's what
most people will remember: can anyone who has experience with any/all
previous version of Windows still use it without major unlearning and
relearning? It's like MS deciding that a car steering wheel is better on
the roof and the pedals operated by the hands, and saying "don't worry,
you'll get used to it and prefer it given a bit of time".

It was the height of arrogance for Microsoft to change the
user-interface like this, without providing an easy way of reverting to
classic mode. They should have said "We've made what we think are
dramatic improvements to the user interface and *we* think you'll prefer
them, but in case you don't, this is what to make Windows 8 work like
Windows 7 but with all the none-UI improvements like performance and
security". Also, the assumption that users of desktop/laptop PCs
(keyboard, mouse) would prefer a tablet/phone/touchscreen UI is
mind-blowingly naive and arrogant.

I suspect that few existing users of Windows will *choose* Windows 8;
that the only sales will be grudge purchases because people need a
new/additional PC and can *only* get Windows 8 on it because Windows 7
is not offered by the vendor. Is Windows 7 still available in CD form
(ie not preinstalled on a PC) or have MS withdrawn those from sale as
well now?

Thanks goodness for the various downloads like Classic Shell which make
Windows 8 sufficient like the UI for Windows 7 to be usable.

Microsoft do seem to have alienated a lot of Windows uses over 25 and I
think they've done it on purpose.

I use StartMenu8, which loads to the normal desktop view, instead of the
tile-based Metro Start page. It also creates a XP/Vista/W8 type Start
button, along with all of the familiar links and icons.

 

[Pamela Rease]

One word: Garbage.

 

[arnold]

And
then some bright spark said let's combine a tablet OS and a PC OS into
one.

Ed

It wasn't a bright spark, it was a brain fart!

 

[NY]

Yep:

http://www.newegg.com/Operating-Systems/SubCategory/ID-368

It's a shame that PC vendors are (AFAIK) not allowed to supply preinstalled
Win 7 as an alternative to Win 8. Many vendors don't even offer no OS (with
a corresponding reduction in cost) so you end up paying for an OS that you
don't want as well as buying separately the OS that you do want. And
probably your average punter wouldn't even know that Win 8 looks radically
different to Win 7 and that he needed to buy Win 7 if he wanted a PC that
looked the same as the old one that he was replacing.

 

[James Silverton]

I think tablets will go the way the netbook fad went: nowhere. They're
fine for little kids and cats but for real work, a pc is still the best.
I also think Win 8 will take the place of Vista as the worst selling
Windows so far. Maybe they will wake up with Win 9 but I'm not holding
my breath.

Have people never seen an Apple store and observed how popular is the iPad?

 

[s|b]

Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general
Subject: Win 8, first impressions.

Something's wrong here...

 

[123Jim]

Looked at friends PC running Win 8, first time I've seen it.
Started up, first thing i thought, where the &*!£'s the Start button,
wanted to see what programmes were installed. Thought hit the Win key,
that'll bring up the programme list but it brought up a screen full of
big squares. Had to open Explorer then 2 Program folders just to see
what was on the PC. I thought some sort of Windows corruption or someone
had been messing about with settings but discovered this is the way it's
supposed to be! Felt like throwing it out the window!
Had been considering dual booting with the 90 day evaluation version to
see what it's like but won't waste my time on it now.
I know some of you will say that it can be made to function like Win 7
but then what's the point of it.

Kenny CArgill

They should have allowed user to decide whether they wanted the familiar
Windows style interface or this brand new alien environment called
Windows 8.

They should also have provided a decent introduction. Like this maybe:

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <[email protected]>, James Silverton

Have people never seen an Apple store and observed how popular is the iPad?

.... with Apple fans (many of whom are quite young).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

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[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

To be fair, you probably didn't give it a fair trial.

The general consensus, at least among users of older versions of
Windows, seems to be: (a) it is [or some say might be] quite good on
touch screens (especially small ones); (b) apart from the new interface,
it has some improvements in speed of booting, power use, and security.
Though many have said these aren't worth the hassle.

Yes yes yes. They've made improvements to it. That's great. If that's
all they'd done, Windows 8 would be fantastic.

But... they've also "broken" it by making major usability changes to it
- bigger than any change since Windows 3 -> Windows 95. And that's what
most people will remember: can anyone who has experience with any/all
previous version of Windows still use it without major unlearning and
relearning? It's like MS deciding that a car steering wheel is better
on the roof and the pedals operated by the hands, and saying "don't
worry, you'll get used to it and prefer it given a bit of time".

Yes, people with experience with earlier versions will mostly strongly
dislike the new interface, especially those who don't wait long enough
to find that they don't _have_ to use it. But what about new users?
There are thousands, I imagine, every day buying their first computer.
For them, having no knowledge of previous versions, it may or may not be
that hateful; I genuinely can't say, as I can't put myself in their
place. But to take your example of car controls: if a different
arrangement (maybe not on the roof as that'd be tiring, but say feet
steering and hand throttle/braking) was presented to new drivers, they
might indeed prefer it. (Actually joystick cars, where steering _and_
throttle/braking are on one control, do already exist, but mostly only
as experimental prototypes and for the disabled.)

It was the height of arrogance for Microsoft to change the
user-interface like this, without providing an easy way of reverting to

I _do_ tend to agree, but they've always done it: this change is more
drastic than most of the previous ones, with the possible exception of
DOS to Windows at all (i. e. the move, more or less, to a GUI from a
character-mode interface). [FWIW I remember that, and being unconvinced
for a long time that the GUI was an advantage! (I still use keyboard
shortcuts more than many younger folk {and think I'm quicker because of
that}.)] Even in the last few times, they've always given a sort of
feeling that the older version they've grudgingly provided a simulation
of is something they consider inferior, and they've never - AFAIK -
given a way of going back _two_ versions, only to the previous one.

classic mode. They should have said "We've made what we think are
dramatic improvements to the user interface and *we* think you'll
prefer them, but in case you don't, this is what to make Windows 8 work
like Windows 7 but with all the none-UI improvements like performance
Agreed.
[]
Thanks goodness for the various downloads like Classic Shell which make
Windows 8 sufficient like the UI for Windows 7 to be usable.

Yes; in the few tens of minutes I had to play with 8, I found Classic
Shell very useful. (But given more time, I _hope_ I'd have given the New
Way a fair trial.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

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[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

It's a shame that PC vendors are (AFAIK) not allowed to supply
preinstalled Win 7 as an alternative to Win 8. Many vendors don't even

Is that the case? It would certainly explain the lightning speed with
which 8 seemed to sweep the board at my local main outlets [it happened
when we in UK still had two such chains - only one, really, left now
)-:].

offer no OS (with a corresponding reduction in cost) so you end up
paying for an OS that you don't want as well as buying separately the

ISTR a legal decision many years ago - I think it would have been about
the time of either 95 or 3.1 - that users could demand a refund of the
part of their purchase price that was Windows, if they didn't want it. I
presume either that this was a near-monopoly situation and the situation
has changed, or that MS have managed to find a way round it, as you
don't hear about it these days.

OS that you do want. And probably your average punter wouldn't even
know that Win 8 looks radically different to Win 7 and that he needed
to buy Win 7 if he wanted a PC that looked the same as the old one that
he was replacing.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

/"\
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/ \ AND POSTINGS

 

[Mellowed]

Something's wrong here...

Yeah. We'll just cut 'em a little slack.

 

[Paul in Houston TX]

They should have allowed user to decide whether they wanted the familiar
Windows style interface or this brand new alien environment called
Windows 8.

They should also have provided a decent introduction. Like this maybe:

Just watched the video and am even less interested in W8 now.
It looks like W8 is designed for web browsing and not really
for computing. "Apps" are really websites and not programs.

 

[Paul]

Just watched the video and am even less interested in W8 now.
It looks like W8 is designed for web browsing and not really
for computing. "Apps" are really websites and not programs.

I think there's two questions there:

1) I have Windows 7. Should I update to Windows 8 ?

No. Much of the software underneath is the same. You'd be
purchasing the OS for the different GUI, and that's about all.

Your OS is modern enough to provide performance and security.

2) My computer has no OS. Can I use Windows 8 ?

Yes, using one of the tools such as free ClassicShell, or one of the
~$5 other packages, you can install traditional menus. And make
your OS look similar to other Windows.

The only problem with purchasing the OS now, is you're paying
full price. The introductory price, made the OS a compelling
purchase from a value perspective. Now, not so much.

In terms of performance, one of the differences in Windows 8, is
memory management. Programs which consume a lot of memory, seem
to work smoother. On the minus side, you'll probably notice some
subtle changes in behavior. And the screen flashing, because of
some privileged program running or something, is annoying. I could
do without that. I doubt that will be fixed in an update, or a
Service Pack. I don't think it's a problem with the video card,
because that video card never does anything out of the ordinary
in other Windows OSes.

If you use dialup networking, forget it, this OS is not for you.
Total software updates to date, downloaded, amount to around 1GB
or so of stuff.

In terms of hardware, your processor needs NX/XD support, to run
Windows 8. And your video card has to be modern enough, if you
expect a driver. My FX5200 cards (I own three of them), don't
have a Windows 8 driver. If you run Windows 8 with those video
cards, the resolution will be stuck at 1024x768 (while the connected
monitor was 1440x900!). You need a video card that has Windows 8
support from the manufacturer. On the processor side, you need
late model S478 processor or better. My S478 P4 processor, can't
run Windows 8. I have two Core2 processors, and they could run it
(as they support XD). One of my Core2 machines has an FX5200, so
it's not a candidate for updating to Windows 8. Unless, that is,
I fork out some money for a video card upgrade. So this OS is not
even suitable for combination with the kinds of machines you'd
get at the local recycler. The Windows installer will stop, if
it sees no NX/XD support.

If the Metro tile side of Windows 8 annoys, you can always try
this for free.

http://classicshell.sourceforge.net

http://www.classicshell.net/images/startmenu1.png

Paul

 

[Muad'Dib]

Windows 8 is another Vista. Perhaps they will get right with Windows 9.

I downloaded the trial version before the official release, ran it in a
VM and for a desktop, it sucks badly. I have messed with it on a tablet
just a little bit, and it isn't much better, but usable. My Nephew says
it pretty much sucks there too, as he has tried it out more extensively
on a touch interface. If anyone has paid attention to the
advertisements, they NEVER that I have seen, show it as a regular
desktop with a mouse, but only in a touch screen environment. LOL
...Which is EXACTLY what I figured they would do, once it was released.
Clearly it SUCKS as a regular desktop OS. It is spunky enough, and seems
stable, but not being able to just find stuff in a menu, and rather
having to type what you want in a search sucks. I have no patience
constantly having to type stuff in a search, when I'm used to QUICKLY
finding what I want, using a menu. Further, as far as desktop
productivity goes, I can do things faster and easier in win 7 or any
previous version, than in win 8. Dopes. Course, I rarely boot to Winders
in the first place, I can do more, and faster, in an alternative OS than
I ever did on Winders. E-V-E-R

Of course others will say it is the greatest thing ever, and that is
fine. Go-for-it and enjoy. I however, join the many that don't agree
with what has been done. In MY opinion, MS screwed the pooch with not
including an easy way to just go with a normal desktop interface choice.
As much as they would like to think the traditional desktop environment
is dead, they are sadly mistaking, for now anyway. At the very least,
they jumped the gun. Can you say, Goggle wanna-be? Thing is, my desktop
is not a tablet, or smart phone! Get real, if I want to do something on
the go, sure my phone or tablet will suffice, when I really want
productivity, I use a REAL computer, with a real OS geared towards that
kind of productivity. Effing A, get a clue.

G'day