PC to TV

[OldGuy]

New PC Win 7 Pro. All updated.
Samsung TV. All updated.

I could not see the PC on the TV until I ran Samsung AllShare on the
Win 7 PC.
Then I see the DLNA entry. I had downloaded a version a few weeks ago
but did not know what to do with it. Now it seems that the Samsung
website link to download this Samsung app has been removed.

I set up Media Player for streaming and to allow remote control
according to what I found by googling.

I only see the Video/Music/Photos on the PC for all PC on my home LAN.
I can play some Videos from another PC Laptop running XP Pro. These
show up as Samsung compatible mpg movies.

The movies I want to play are recorded from Win 7 Media Center on that
PC.
These do play on Media Player on the same Win 7 PC.

I have google my butt off and cannot find anything to help.
What I have found on the web shows the Media Player Icon on the Samsung
TV but on my setup I get no media player icons. How to do?

The Win 7 PC Media Player shows the Samsung TV and has a Play To option
but nothing shows up on the TV. I do not know what to set the TV to.
Anybody know what remote buttons to push?

The Samsung has the latest firmware and Internet app updates.

How do I get the Media Player icons to show up on the Samsung TV?
I believe this is how to play those Media Center TV recordings from the
Samsung TV side.

Is there some folder on XP and Win 7 that makes it easier to locate
media from the Samsung TV?

Any suggestions welcome.

 

[OldGuy]

After serious thinking OldGuy wrote :

New PC Win 7 Pro. All updated.
Samsung TV. All updated.

I could not see the PC on the TV until I ran Samsung AllShare on the Win 7
PC.
Then I see the DLNA entry. I had downloaded a version a few weeks ago but
did not know what to do with it. Now it seems that the Samsung website link
to download this Samsung app has been removed.

I set up Media Player for streaming and to allow remote control according to
what I found by googling.

I only see the Video/Music/Photos on the PC for all PC on my home LAN.
I can play some Videos from another PC Laptop running XP Pro. These show up
as Samsung compatible mpg movies.

The movies I want to play are recorded from Win 7 Media Center on that PC.
These do play on Media Player on the same Win 7 PC.

I have google my butt off and cannot find anything to help.
What I have found on the web shows the Media Player Icon on the Samsung TV
but on my setup I get no media player icons. How to do?

The Win 7 PC Media Player shows the Samsung TV and has a Play To option but
nothing shows up on the TV. I do not know what to set the TV to. Anybody
know what remote buttons to push?

The Samsung has the latest firmware and Internet app updates.

How do I get the Media Player icons to show up on the Samsung TV?
I believe this is how to play those Media Center TV recordings from the
Samsung TV side.

Is there some folder on XP and Win 7 that makes it easier to locate media
from the Samsung TV?

Any suggestions welcome.

More data.
Where I looked on the web it said I cannot play movies from a NAS. Not
true that does play if the codec is there.
Turns out that .MPG and .FLV are supported on the Samsung TV.

Where do I find what other codecs are currently on the TV and how can I
find and add other codecs?

Note: I also tried going in through the AllShare icon on the TV but
that works the same as going in through the DLNA on the TV icon.

 

[Paul]

After serious thinking OldGuy wrote :

More data.
Where I looked on the web it said I cannot play movies from a NAS. Not
true that does play if the codec is there.
Turns out that .MPG and .FLV are supported on the Samsung TV.

Where do I find what other codecs are currently on the TV and how can I
find and add other codecs?

Note: I also tried going in through the AllShare icon on the TV but that
works the same as going in through the DLNA on the TV icon.

Samsung TV model number ?

Paul

 

[OldGuy]

Paul used his keyboard to write :

Samsung TV model number ?

Paul

Samsung
UN32C6500VFXZA

 

[Paul]

Paul used his keyboard to write :


Samsung
UN32C6500VFXZA

http://www.samsung.com/us/support/owners/product/UN32C6500VFXZA

Page 36 of the manual, lists formats supported. But it doesn't say under
what conditions these apply. As well, they seem to have a problem using
terminology like 60i or 30p. The word DLNA doesn't appear in the manual
(AllShare is the closest thing I can see, to a DLNA related function).
The words progressive or interleaved, don't appear in the manual at all.
(They mumble something about 30 or 60 frames, leaving you to guess that
they might be 30p or 60i.)

VOB (MPEG2) is mentioned on page 36.

http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/c...906134240296/[UC6500-ZA]BN68-02711D-03Eng.pdf

There is also a firmware upgrade on that page, but it doesn't
seem to support any additional formats. Release notes say:

"Description

Support Netflix 2.1 and MLB.tv apps.
Support new TV camera (Model: CY-STC1100)
Add ''3D Optimize'' option on Menu for better 3D image.
And this firmware prevents below issues .
''USB Power Overload'' message pops up even USB port is not connected .
HDMI ports recognition error and signal loose .
Plug & Play is displayed whenver turning on TV.
"

So while there is a manual, it's a joke.

*******

The Wikipedia article for DLNA, has a URL for "Allshare". Item #45.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Living_Network_Alliance

" #45 "AllShare download". Samsung. Retrieved 2012-01-30.
http://www.samsung.com/global/allshare/pcsw/
"

Since that page is gone, we go looking for a copy on archive.org .

http://web.archive.org/web/20121024121901/http://www.samsung.com/global/allshare/pcsw/

*******

I got this directly from Samsung, by finding another TV set, and
there was a software called "PC Share" listed. 55,087,601 bytes.
And based on the date in the URL, this might be older than AllShare.

http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/SW/201007/20100719175911078/setup.exe

And this is via downloading from the archive.org allshare page, before
it was deleted. This is hosted by archive.org (a 5500TB server).
This file is 37,277,456 bytes. Check your own hard drive for
the file "AllSharePCSW.exe".

http://web.archive.org/web/20130206...lobal/allshare/pcsw/download/AllSharePCSW.exe

*******

When I was experimenting with DLNA (using nothing but multiple
virtual machines), I found "upnp-inspector" in Linux to be handy.
It gives some info for DLNA devices that it finds.

You can get this, by booting a Linux LiveCD, go to Synaptic Package
Manager, and download a copy of upnp-inspector from there. And then,
when it is running, it can report some info about the various
devices. I would not expect the viewing device to report too much
stuff, whereas a PC running WMP streaming or a PC running a third-party
streaming server such as Serviio, should show what files it has to offer.

http://coherence.beebits.net/download/Inspector-1.png

They list a Windows version here. But I have no experience with this.
I'd have to drag this into a VM for safety, and give it a test.

http://coherence.beebits.net/wiki/UPnP-Inspector

http://coherence-project.org/download/UPnP-Inspector-0.2.2-1-setup.exe

*******

One of the things third-party streamer apps can do, is "transcode on the fly".
That means, you load a "foreign" movie onto the PC, and when it is
streamed to the TV, it is turned into a format the TV can use. I
did enough of an experiment in my virtual environment, to see
this happening. I didn't have enough CPU horsepower, for it to run
real-time.

I don't know if WMP transcodes. Microsoft has a habit of sticking
to their own streaming formats. Your TV does mention
Windows Media Video V9 on page 36, but I don't know what that
corresponds to in the non-Samsung "real world". You know, where
we use standard terminology to describe things...

Paul

 

[OldGuy]

Thanks for all the info.
As far as the movies that work, I will just have to try.
I do not see how to add a codec to the TV even though it complains that
the correct codec in not installed.

The TV does find a bunch of "movie" files on the NAS and a few on the
PCs but only plays MPG compatible and FLV (so far discovered). The TV
must examine the file since some MGP files are not dotMPG or similar.
I would expect that it should examine.

Converting all the TV recording to MPG would be a nightmare.
They are all coming in from Win Pro 7 Media Center now.
The recorded movies that play are from WinTV and are mpg files.
I gave up on WinTV after so many problems that they will not fix. I
have had many long contacts with their tech support. They do not have
anyone on the end of the line that understands.

As I said before, the screen shots on the web of the TV show a Media
Player icon but my TV does not have that. I think I have set all
necessary on the PC with Media Player. All the streaming options seem
to be set. MP allow remote control is set. I use MP "Play To" and it
shows the TV but nothing happens when I click through to play. Media
Player does play "all" movies. That is a new Win 7 Pro PC. I noticed
that the new Win 7 Pro is different from the other PCs. On the new one
I get a Recorded TV widget that shows the latest recordings and allow
direct click to start playing or open Media Center. That is a nice
feature.
I just wish I could find a way to get the movies from the PC to the TV
without a direct DVI or whatever connect. The PC is in the back room
and that is where I want it to stay.

 

[Char Jackson]

Thanks for all the info.
As far as the movies that work, I will just have to try.
I do not see how to add a codec to the TV even though it complains that
the correct codec in not installed.

The TV does find a bunch of "movie" files on the NAS and a few on the
PCs but only plays MPG compatible and FLV (so far discovered). The TV
must examine the file since some MGP files are not dotMPG or similar.
I would expect that it should examine.

Converting all the TV recording to MPG would be a nightmare.
They are all coming in from Win Pro 7 Media Center now.
The recorded movies that play are from WinTV and are mpg files.
I gave up on WinTV after so many problems that they will not fix. I
have had many long contacts with their tech support. They do not have
anyone on the end of the line that understands.

As I said before, the screen shots on the web of the TV show a Media
Player icon but my TV does not have that. I think I have set all
necessary on the PC with Media Player. All the streaming options seem
to be set. MP allow remote control is set. I use MP "Play To" and it
shows the TV but nothing happens when I click through to play. Media
Player does play "all" movies. That is a new Win 7 Pro PC. I noticed
that the new Win 7 Pro is different from the other PCs. On the new one
I get a Recorded TV widget that shows the latest recordings and allow
direct click to start playing or open Media Center. That is a nice
feature.
I just wish I could find a way to get the movies from the PC to the TV
without a direct DVI or whatever connect. The PC is in the back room
and that is where I want it to stay.

A media player will play almost everything you can throw at it. The models
from WD and Asus usually get favorable reviews.

For example:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815140004
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136997

About the size of an external hard drive, they connect to your TV with HDMI
(preferred) or other lesser choices, and they typically want a network
connection so they can access your shared files (movies of nearly every
type, music of several popular formats, and photos for slide shows). Most
also have a USB port so you can play media files from a USB device, as well.
The codecs are resident on the media player, not the TV, in this case.

I've had a no-name brand for a couple years now, flashed with better
firmware, and use it frequently.

 

[Paul]

Thanks for all the info.
As far as the movies that work, I will just have to try.
I do not see how to add a codec to the TV even though it complains that
the correct codec in not installed.

The TV does find a bunch of "movie" files on the NAS and a few on the
PCs but only plays MPG compatible and FLV (so far discovered). The TV
must examine the file since some MGP files are not dotMPG or similar. I
would expect that it should examine.

Converting all the TV recording to MPG would be a nightmare.
They are all coming in from Win Pro 7 Media Center now.
The recorded movies that play are from WinTV and are mpg files.
I gave up on WinTV after so many problems that they will not fix. I
have had many long contacts with their tech support. They do not have
anyone on the end of the line that understands.

As I said before, the screen shots on the web of the TV show a Media
Player icon but my TV does not have that. I think I have set all
necessary on the PC with Media Player. All the streaming options seem
to be set. MP allow remote control is set. I use MP "Play To" and it
shows the TV but nothing happens when I click through to play. Media
Player does play "all" movies. That is a new Win 7 Pro PC. I noticed
that the new Win 7 Pro is different from the other PCs. On the new one
I get a Recorded TV widget that shows the latest recordings and allow
direct click to start playing or open Media Center. That is a nice
feature.
I just wish I could find a way to get the movies from the PC to the TV
without a direct DVI or whatever connect. The PC is in the back room
and that is where I want it to stay.

The firmware update doesn't mention anything regarding a Media Player icon.
The release notes mentioned the words "Plug and Play" appearing on the
screen when the TV starts. That might refer to uPnP/DLNA, but who can be
sure what their words really mean.

If you still have that link to the PDF manual handy, page 50 has a section
on setting up the TV for AllShare. I suspect this is DLNA.

http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/c...906134240296/[UC6500-ZA]BN68-02711D-03Eng.pdf

MENU -- Application -- Content View -- AllShare -- ENTER

Media [On]

Then try your "Play To" experiment again.

*******

There are third party streamer/server applications, which will transcode
on the fly (as the stream is sent to the TV). And that approach would
be OK as long as the PC was powerful enough to do the processing.
When I tried Serviio here, in a virtual environment (several virtual
machines, one as a server, one as a "TV", and so on), that seemed to be
doing transcoding. But, with the compute load on the PC running all that
stuff (and only one core available for transcoding), it was struggling
to keep up. It wouldn't be quite that bad with a real set up, and
not all the hardware emulated like in my test setup.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Living_Network_Alliance

Serviio is a DLNA media server and works with any DLNA compliant device
with the purpose of streaming or transcoding any kind of media files
(TV, Sony PlayStation 3, etc.) and some other (MS Xbox 360). Frequently
updated, has a good support community.

Serviio, I think I had to install Java to get that to work.
I don't really like having Java resident on the machine.

I vaguely remember running this (XBMC) as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbmc

I don't keep setups like that for long, as they're just experiments.

Plenty of toys to try out, if at first you don't succeed.

Paul

 

[OldGuy]

I have discovered that half of the problem solution depends on how fast
I can run.
At age 70 I barely make it.

If I use Samsung Allshare program from the PC, I select a compatible
movie e.g. .FLV.
I then set all the switches.
I have to copy the file (or move) to an AllShare folder (why I do not
know since copying 8G files is not fast).
I then wait for the AllShare app to make connection and then press
play.
Then I have to run from one end of the house to the other and hit the
button on my TV remote and the pushed movie plays on the TV. If I am
slow the TV on screen ACCEPT vanishes and I have to try again. I get
winded trying to watch a movie. Kinda stupid!

But if I could do the Media Player remote thing that running would all
go away.
I will have to find that web page showing the TV screen and the Media
Player icon. The Win 7 Pro Media Player will play the Recorded TV.
The AllShare push will not. Wonder if the Allshare website will ever
come back and hopefully support Media Center TV recording.

 

[NY]

A media player will play almost everything you can throw at it. The models
from WD and Asus usually get favorable reviews.

Sadly this isn't the case. I've not yet found a hardware player (as opposed
to Windows software) which can play Microsoft Media Center's native
recording formats .dvr_ms (Vista) and .wtv (Win 7). You have to convert
these to something more generic like .mpg for the player to recognise them.
Also, many players that allow USB drives to be connected do not recognise
NTFS drives so you have to convert the drive to FAT32 (with the
corresponding 4 GB file limit) to get the player to see any file on the
drive. As an aside, why does *anything* that stores to a filesystem or reads
from a filesystem still use FAT, given that NTFS has been the standard for
Windows PCs for many years?

What I want doesn't seem to be made: a self-contained player with a remote
which can connect to Windows network sharename (via Ethernet or wireless),
access the folder structure that I have set up on my recording PC and play
the WTV files that I've recorded. Some devices require you to "push" the
file from the server to the player (and so require you to control the server
which may be in another room to the TV and player) instead of getting the
player to "pull" the files from the server.

Well, actually, it *is* made: it's called a Windows PC!

 

[Paul]

I have discovered that half of the problem solution depends on how fast
I can run.
At age 70 I barely make it.

If I use Samsung Allshare program from the PC, I select a compatible
movie e.g. .FLV.
I then set all the switches.
I have to copy the file (or move) to an AllShare folder (why I do not
know since copying 8G files is not fast).
I then wait for the AllShare app to make connection and then press play.
Then I have to run from one end of the house to the other and hit the
button on my TV remote and the pushed movie plays on the TV. If I am
slow the TV on screen ACCEPT vanishes and I have to try again. I get
winded trying to watch a movie. Kinda stupid!

But if I could do the Media Player remote thing that running would all
go away.
I will have to find that web page showing the TV screen and the Media
Player icon. The Win 7 Pro Media Player will play the Recorded TV. The
AllShare push will not. Wonder if the Allshare website will ever come
back and hopefully support Media Center TV recording.

Can you drop a shortcut into the AllShare folder ? Does that work ?
That might be faster than copying the file itself.

I'm really surprised the TV won't stay in a "push it to me" mode.

Paul

 

[NY]

Can you drop a shortcut into the AllShare folder ? Does that work ?
That might be faster than copying the file itself.

I'm really surprised the TV won't stay in a "push it to me" mode.

Why should the TV/player have to be used in "push it to me" mode in the
first place? Why not design the player to "pull" the file from a
Windows/Apple network share, to avoid the need to be in two places at once:
the living room for viewing the programme and elsewhere in the house to
operate the start/stop/pause controls on the PC. It's like having a VCR/DVD
in one room and the TV in another, or a record player or CD player in one
room and the speakers in another.

All it needs is a box that can speak SMB (Server Message Block) for Windows
share compatibility and the equivalent for Apple, and can decode all the
common file formats around, including the standard Windows Media Center WTV
format (which is MPG with a wrapper around it).

 

[Paul]

Why should the TV/player have to be used in "push it to me" mode in the
first place? Why not design the player to "pull" the file from a
Windows/Apple network share, to avoid the need to be in two places at
once: the living room for viewing the programme and elsewhere in the
house to operate the start/stop/pause controls on the PC. It's like
having a VCR/DVD in one room and the TV in another, or a record player
or CD player in one room and the speakers in another.

All it needs is a box that can speak SMB (Server Message Block) for
Windows share compatibility and the equivalent for Apple, and can decode
all the common file formats around, including the standard Windows Media
Center WTV format (which is MPG with a wrapper around it).

The manual for the product isn't helping matters.

If I was there, I would be using a copy of upnp-inspector,
to try to see what each piece of equipment was doing. I don't
know what the TV would look like though, so really hard to
say what to expect from it.

Apparently, this was my experimental setup.

[Host] [Guest]
Windows 8 --- VirtualBox ------ Linux Mint
| (Bridged Mode upnp-inspector,
| Networking) XBMC
| ^
| |
+--- Windows Media Player ------+
serves the files

This is a screenshot, from some step in my experiment.

http://imageshack.us/a/img690/5708/upnpinspectorexample.gif

Apparently there is a version of that available for Windows,
and would likely involve also installing some version of Python.
The copy of Windows 8 in that case, would have been one of
the preview versions.

Paul

 

[Wolf K]

On 6/4/2013 3:26 AM, NY wrote:
[...]

As an aside, why does *anything* that stores to a filesystem or reads
from a filesystem still use FAT, given that NTFS has been the standard
for Windows PCs for many years? [...]

As an aside, why do we still have dumb drives tat need guidance and
control from an OS? Why should the OS know or care what file system a
storage device uses?

It's way past time to for storage (and other) devices that from an OS
POV are merely data destinations and and sources. Let the device handle
everything else.

Have a good day,

 

[Auric__]

As an aside, why does *anything* that stores to a filesystem or reads
from a filesystem still use FAT, given that NTFS has been the standard for
Windows PCs for many years?

Probably because FAT is much more widely-supported than NTFS. Windows is not
the only system available, especially for servers.

 

[Auric__]

On 6/4/2013 3:26 AM, NY wrote:
[...]

As an aside, why does *anything* that stores to a filesystem or reads
from a filesystem still use FAT, given that NTFS has been the standard
for Windows PCs for many years? [...]

As an aside, why do we still have dumb drives tat need guidance and
control from an OS? Why should the OS know or care what file system a
storage device uses?

It's way past time to for storage (and other) devices that from an OS
POV are merely data destinations and and sources. Let the device handle
everything else.

So, you're saying that if you decide to change file systems, you'd rather
have to go out and buy a new hard drive? Or even something as "simple" as a
firmware upgrade?

File systems are constantly evolving. Maybe not so much in the Windows world,
where's there's relatively few (a handful of FAT systems + a few revisions of
NTFS), but the *nix file systems see constant development. The last thing in
the world I'd want is to have to upgrade the *disk* to support the *file
system*.

Besides, you'd still need drivers for the disks anyway. (Modern drives *are*
a lot smarter than they used to be, but that's the hardware, not the FS.)

 

[NY]

Probably because FAT is much more widely-supported than NTFS. Windows is
not
the only system available, especially for servers.

I thought NTFS was now one of the supported filesystems on non-Windows
operating systems such as Unix/Linux, even though it originated on Windows
NT.

FAT is fine if the files are smaller than 4GB, but if FAT32 is used on a
camcorder it's plausible that a long single recording could generate files
that are bigger than 4GB. Likewise for off-air recordings from terrestrial
or satellite TV. Hence you need to find a way of splitting a file that is
larger than 4GB before you can put it onto a FAT drive, and then find a way
of playing the multiple parts seamlessly back-to-back.

 

[Paul]

As an aside, why does *anything* that stores to a
filesystem or reads from a filesystem still use FAT, given that NTFS has
been the standard for Windows PCs for many years?

If you use NTFS in a product, without a license from Microsoft,
you'll be pursued by the Microsoft legal team.

FAT was different, in that it was perceived that there
wasn't a patent issue. As long as you don't use LFN and
stick with 8.3 file naming, you might get away with it.
That's why you find flavors of FAT in things like
digital cameras.

Manufacturers are quite adverse to even tiny licensing fees.

A puzzler would be, why EXT2 or EXT3 would not be more
popular, in appliances. Maybe it's perceived there is
still a possibility of violating some patent by using
such a solution ?

http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/26/tomtom-garmin-microsoft-markets-equity_technology_20.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_v._TomTom

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2009/03/microsoft-and-tomtom-settle-patent-dispute/

http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7325/

"two were in relation to the VFAT file system regarding Microsoft’s
Joliet extensions for long filenames,"

Paul

 

[OldGuy]

Why should the TV/player have to be used in "push it to me" mode in the first
place? Why not design the player to "pull" the file from a Windows/Apple
network share, to avoid the need to be in two places at once: the living room
for viewing the programme and elsewhere in the house to operate the
start/stop/pause controls on the PC. It's like having a VCR/DVD in one room
and the TV in another, or a record player or CD player in one room and the
speakers in another.

All it needs is a box that can speak SMB (Server Message Block) for Windows
share compatibility and the equivalent for Apple, and can decode all the
common file formats around, including the standard Windows Media Center WTV
format (which is MPG with a wrapper around it).

I think I said in previous post.
1) the TV can see and play movies from the other PCs and NAS.
However, some sources present over 200 "movies" that the TV cannot play
or I have no interest in. I have not figured out how to filter out
unplayable and unwanted movies yet.
2) the Win 7 Pro PC running allshare selectively pushes the easily
found movie. But a quick ACCEPT on the TV is stupid.
3) now I have the Win 7 pro media Player pushing movies however it
will not push the Media Center recorded TV movies even though the are a
wrapped mpg file. The TV cannot unwrap them. i.e. no codec. In this
case the movie just plays immediately, no ACCEPT is presented.

Will fiddle some more. but what a poor implementation.
I need less fun.

 

[Auric__]

I thought NTFS was now one of the supported filesystems on non-Windows
operating systems such as Unix/Linux, even though it originated on Windows
NT.

Yes, but see Paul's reply to your previous post.

Also, NTFS isn't terribly popular outside of Windows. Yes, it *can* be used,
but... personally, I wouldn't (and don't) use NTFS on my Linux server; I
prefer open formats. (My root partition is ext3, my storage partitions are
ext4, and my boot partition is good ol' ext2.)

FAT is fine if the files are smaller than 4GB, but if FAT32 is used on a
camcorder it's plausible that a long single recording could generate files
that are bigger than 4GB. Likewise for off-air recordings from terrestrial
or satellite TV. Hence you need to find a way of splitting a file that is
larger than 4GB before you can put it onto a FAT drive, and then find a way
of playing the multiple parts seamlessly back-to-back.

I'm sure there are solutions to that sort of thing. (For example, VMware has
a method to automagically split large disk images, although IIRC that has to
be selected when the image is created.) Shrug. I don't worry about things
like that.