Libraries vs. Folders

[Renny Bosch]

What is the basic idea behind having Libraries? Folders are locations on
some storage medium wherer files can be stored. Why do we need
Libraries? Is this an idea that solves some rare problem while
confusing everybody else?

 

[Char Jackson]

What is the basic idea behind having Libraries? Folders are locations on
some storage medium wherer files can be stored. Why do we need
Libraries? Is this an idea that solves some rare problem while
confusing everybody else?

If a Library was created from a single folder, then nothing would be
gained, but a Library can be built from multiple folders, and those
folders can reside almost anywhere on the filesystem. So a Library is
the most effective when it's used as a means of providing a single
view into what would otherwise be multiple folders. In effect, it
combines multiple folders into a single virtual folder.

For example, on my file server I have several thousand movies spread
across multiple physical drives and several thousand TV shows spread
across more physical drives. I can access each of those drives, and
the folders they contain, individually, or I can create a Library that
contains all of the movies, or another Library with all of the TV
shows, or any combination that works for me.

That's my take on it, anyway, but a disclaimer is in order. I don't
use Libraries and have removed them (or more likely, hid them), from
view.

 

[choro]

If a Library was created from a single folder, then nothing would be
gained, but a Library can be built from multiple folders, and those
folders can reside almost anywhere on the filesystem. So a Library is
the most effective when it's used as a means of providing a single
view into what would otherwise be multiple folders. In effect, it
combines multiple folders into a single virtual folder.

For example, on my file server I have several thousand movies spread
across multiple physical drives and several thousand TV shows spread
across more physical drives. I can access each of those drives, and
the folders they contain, individually, or I can create a Library that
contains all of the movies, or another Library with all of the TV
shows, or any combination that works for me.

That's my take on it, anyway, but a disclaimer is in order. I don't
use Libraries and have removed them (or more likely, hid them), from
view.

Could we have a more in-depth exchange on libraries please? I thought
what appeared in the library folders was just a short-cut but
apparently not. When I deleted something in the library the file was
deleted in the actual folder too.

So how do libraries actually work apart from combining say all photos in
various folders into one folder or virtual folder? Being able to see all
one's pictures in one folder is certainly a useful feature.

But how do library folders actually work? I must try and look into this
but would welcome any info from people who have actually done their
homework on this subject.

Can they for example be configured to "see" only certain folders and
disregard others? What if one doesn't want contents of certain folders
to be included in the Library folders?

 

[Stan Brown]

What is the basic idea behind having Libraries? Folders are locations on
some storage medium wherer files can be stored. Why do we need
Libraries? Is this an idea that solves some rare problem while
confusing everybody else?

[raises hand and waves it frantically]

I asked a similar question a few months ago, so let me give you the
answer I got:

A library is a way to pull together the same type of files in
multiple locations, possibly on multiple computers. For example, you
can have a library of images, a library of music, a library of
videos, etc. You can then search or access an image or a video
without worrying about its physical location.

If (like me) you don't network multiple computers and you're already
fairly organized about where you keep things, then the advantages of
libraries are exiguous.

 

[Char Jackson]

Could we have a more in-depth exchange on libraries please? I thought
what appeared in the library folders was just a short-cut but
apparently not. When I deleted something in the library the file was
deleted in the actual folder too.

That's exactly what I would expect. Obviously, your expectations were
different, so I hope the reality wasn't too painful!

So how do libraries actually work apart from combining say all photos in
various folders into one folder or virtual folder? Being able to see all
one's pictures in one folder is certainly a useful feature.

That's how I would say they work.

Can they for example be configured to "see" only certain folders and
disregard others? What if one doesn't want contents of certain folders
to be included in the Library folders?

Yes, you get to pick and choose which folders are included in each
Library and which are excluded, and you can make changes at any time.

 

[FooAtari]

[raises hand and waves it frantically]

I asked a similar question a few months ago, so let me give you the
answer I got:

A library is a way to pull together the same type of files in multiple
locations, possibly on multiple computers. For example, you can have a
library of images, a library of music, a library of videos, etc. You
can then search or access an image or a video without worrying about its
physical location.

If (like me) you don't network multiple computers and you're already
fairly organized about where you keep things, then the advantages of
libraries are exiguous.

I think this sums up Libraries very well.

I've always kept my folders well organized (it's just good practice IMO).
And also my windows box has very little media on it and doesn't need
access to any on my Linux system. Personally I have no use for Libraries
so disabled them, along with a lot of other clutter in Win 7

--
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http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/

 

[Ed Cryer]

[raises hand and waves it frantically]

I asked a similar question a few months ago, so let me give you the
answer I got:

A library is a way to pull together the same type of files in multiple
locations, possibly on multiple computers. For example, you can have a
library of images, a library of music, a library of videos, etc. You
can then search or access an image or a video without worrying about its
physical location.

If (like me) you don't network multiple computers and you're already
fairly organized about where you keep things, then the advantages of
libraries are exiguous.

I think this sums up Libraries very well.

I've always kept my folders well organized (it's just good practice IMO).
And also my windows box has very little media on it and doesn't need
access to any on my Linux system. Personally I have no use for Libraries
so disabled them, along with a lot of other clutter in Win 7

When I set up this Win7 system and created myself as user, Win7 created
a library structure for me and it's still here; Music and Pictures.
I don't add to it purposefully, but Win7 does, and I can't see how to
get rid of libraries without sinking the OS.

Ed

 

[Roy Smith]

What is the basic idea behind having Libraries? Folders are locations on
some storage medium wherer files can be stored. Why do we need
Libraries? Is this an idea that solves some rare problem while
confusing everybody else?

[raises hand and waves it frantically]

I asked a similar question a few months ago, so let me give you the
answer I got:

A library is a way to pull together the same type of files in
multiple locations, possibly on multiple computers. For example, you
can have a library of images, a library of music, a library of
videos, etc. You can then search or access an image or a video
without worrying about its physical location.

If (like me) you don't network multiple computers and you're already
fairly organized about where you keep things, then the advantages of
libraries are exiguous.

Though to me the biggest drawback to the Library feature of Win7 is with
how it deals with network shares. For example I have a 1TB NAS device
and if I wanted to include the Downloads share from there it won't let
me. When you attempt to add a network share you'll get the message that
the share isn't in the search index, but in order to add it to the
search index you have to make the share available for offline use.
Doing this will then put a copy of everything in that network share onto
your hard drive which to me defeats the purpose of having it on the
network share to begin with.


--

Roy Smith
Windows 7 Professional
Thunderbird 3.1.7
Monday, January 31, 2011 5:56:05 AM

 

[Stan Brown]

When I set up this Win7 system and created myself as user, Win7 created
a library structure for me and it's still here; Music and Pictures.
I don't add to it purposefully, but Win7 does, and I can't see how to
get rid of libraries without sinking the OS.

You will see how if you visit

http://oakroadsystems.com/tech/7tip.htm#FileLibraries

 

[Renny Bosch]

What is the basic idea behind having Libraries? Folders are locations on
some storage medium wherer files can be stored. Why do we need
Libraries? Is this an idea that solves some rare problem while
confusing everybody else?

[raises hand and waves it frantically]

I asked a similar question a few months ago, so let me give you the
answer I got:

A library is a way to pull together the same type of files in
multiple locations, possibly on multiple computers. For example, you
can have a library of images, a library of music, a library of
videos, etc. You can then search or access an image or a video
without worrying about its physical location.

If (like me) you don't network multiple computers and you're already
fairly organized about where you keep things, then the advantages of
libraries are exiguous.

Thanks Stan, that helps.

Renny

Shikata Happenkasa . . .

 

[Yousuf Khan]

What is the basic idea behind having Libraries? Folders are locations on
some storage medium wherer files can be stored. Why do we need
Libraries? Is this an idea that solves some rare problem while confusing
everybody else?

I think the main reason it's considered confusing is because many of us
are used to using a slightly different kind of library in the form of
photo libraries, or MP3 libraries, which are internal organizations of
files by specific apps (for example, such as a photo editor, or a
Winamp-like app). Those libraries are only maintained internally by
those programs.

This is the first time the concept of the library has come to the full
operating system itself. Let's say you have multiple hard drives in your
system, and you spread your videos or photos or whatever across several
different disks. Instead of having to find them in the video folder of
each drive separately, you can organize them into a library and the
search can happen over several hard drives as if they were all in a
single disk and folder.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Ed Cryer]

I think the main reason it's considered confusing is because many of us
are used to using a slightly different kind of library in the form of
photo libraries, or MP3 libraries, which are internal organizations of
files by specific apps (for example, such as a photo editor, or a
Winamp-like app). Those libraries are only maintained internally by
those programs.

This is the first time the concept of the library has come to the full
operating system itself. Let's say you have multiple hard drives in your
system, and you spread your videos or photos or whatever across several
different disks. Instead of having to find them in the video folder of
each drive separately, you can organize them into a library and the
search can happen over several hard drives as if they were all in a
single disk and folder.

Yousuf Khan

You're slightly off-key there, but only slightly.
What we are used to is the folder structure; the standard hierarchical
layout of a disk.
You know the sort of thing;
C drive
Windows, Program Files, Documents & Settings....
System, System32, Temp.....

What the libraries structure does within that framework is to give you a
way of setting up alternative virtual hierarchies; and these can include
files from anywhere within the accessible database.
You could, for example, create one called "Edslibrary" and include files
from any folder at all; or even whole folders.

The difference is that the standard structure is mapped in a disc's
indices; whereas the the library one isn't, it's a separate Windows item.

Ed

 

[choro]

You're slightly off-key there, but only slightly.
What we are used to is the folder structure; the standard hierarchical
layout of a disk.
You know the sort of thing;
C drive
Windows, Program Files, Documents & Settings....
System, System32, Temp.....

What the libraries structure does within that framework is to give you a
way of setting up alternative virtual hierarchies; and these can include
files from anywhere within the accessible database.
You could, for example, create one called "Edslibrary" and include files
from any folder at all; or even whole folders.

The difference is that the standard structure is mapped in a disc's
indices; whereas the the library one isn't, it's a separate Windows item.

Ed

Yousouf Khan explained it rather well, I thought. Your explanation is
more complex for a beginner to understand but your point about the
facility to create particular dedicated folders within Libraries
certainly adds to Yousouf Khan's rather short but clear explanation of
the role of Libraries.

 

[Renny Bosch]

Yousouf Khan explained it rather well, I thought. Your explanation is
more complex for a beginner to understand but your point about the
facility to create particular dedicated folders within Libraries
certainly adds to Yousouf Khan's rather short but clear explanation of
the role of Libraries.

Thanks to you all for explaining things. If I may assume that 90% of us
have a computer with a single HD and keep our files in reasonably well
structured folders on that computer, then I would say "it is an idea
that solves some rare problem while confusing everybody else."

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Thanks to you all for explaining things. If I may assume that 90% of us
have a computer with a single HD and keep our files in reasonably well
structured folders on that computer, then I would say "it is an idea
that solves some rare problem while confusing everybody else."

They are not limited to folders in different drives. You can put
different folders on the same drive into a library too. One example is
the standard "Documents" library that comes preinstalled with Windows 7.
This library puts both your own "My Documents" folder in here, as well
as the "Public Documents" folder into this library. Both of these
folders exist in the same drive, in fact they both originate from the
same parent folder "Users". But if you placed a document in your own
folder or in the public folder, you'd have two steps to find that one
particular file, rather than one step as with a library.

You should just look at libraries as just another type of folder, it
does you no good to think of it as something else more complicated.
Whether you ever need to create your own library is upto you, but the
standard libraries that came with it are already pretty useful.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Ed Cryer]

They are not limited to folders in different drives. You can put
different folders on the same drive into a library too. One example is
the standard "Documents" library that comes preinstalled with Windows 7.
This library puts both your own "My Documents" folder in here, as well
as the "Public Documents" folder into this library. Both of these
folders exist in the same drive, in fact they both originate from the
same parent folder "Users". But if you placed a document in your own
folder or in the public folder, you'd have two steps to find that one
particular file, rather than one step as with a library.

You should just look at libraries as just another type of folder, it
does you no good to think of it as something else more complicated.
Whether you ever need to create your own library is upto you, but the
standard libraries that came with it are already pretty useful.

Yousuf Khan

The library system is used, and has been for years, by many progs; under
XP and way before that. So it's better, as you imply, to get to
understand it.
Things like picture & music collections scan your drives at setup time
and build their library of all included folders & files.
Win7 has merely taken this onboard itself.

Ed

 

[choro]

The library system is used, and has been for years, by many progs; under
XP and way before that. So it's better, as you imply, to get to
understand it.
Things like picture & music collections scan your drives at setup time
and build their library of all included folders & files.
Win7 has merely taken this onboard itself.

Ed

True, there is nothing new under the sun. But you can tell your Win7
"Libraries" which particular folders to include in the "Library" and
from what I understand you can even create your very own "Library".
Though this obviously necessitates the good old fashioned way of sorting
out you user file folders and subfolders in the first place so that you
can tell the "Library" you have created to "see" those folders and
subfolders.

Careful though, you CANNOT delete a file in the Library folder without
deleting the original too! I once had installed photographic software
from a particular camera brand name (it came with a Nikon camera, if my
memory serves me right) which created similar Libraries but where you
could work with or delete the copy in the library WITHOUT affecting the
original one bit. A bit of a problem with hard disk space at the time
but obviously no longer with cheap Terabyte hard disks for less that 100
dollars or Euros or GBPs (-- name your own currency so long as it is not
Yen otherwise double it and add two noughts at the end!).

 

[Ed Cryer]

True, there is nothing new under the sun. But you can tell your Win7
"Libraries" which particular folders to include in the "Library" and
from what I understand you can even create your very own "Library".
Though this obviously necessitates the good old fashioned way of sorting
out you user file folders and subfolders in the first place so that you
can tell the "Library" you have created to "see" those folders and
subfolders.

Careful though, you CANNOT delete a file in the Library folder without
deleting the original too! I once had installed photographic software
from a particular camera brand name (it came with a Nikon camera, if my
memory serves me right) which created similar Libraries but where you
could work with or delete the copy in the library WITHOUT affecting the
original one bit. A bit of a problem with hard disk space at the time
but obviously no longer with cheap Terabyte hard disks for less that 100
dollars or Euros or GBPs (-- name your own currency so long as it is not
Yen otherwise double it and add two noughts at the end!).

The worst culprit is Windows Media Player. It jumps in, scans every nook
and cranny it can find on any available network, and hangs on with the
tenacity of a Viking.
It downloads all kinds of pictures and stuff for its use, and you end up
with the ability to examine your MP3s sorted into almost any category
order you could wish for.

Ed

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Careful though, you CANNOT delete a file in the Library folder without
deleting the original too! I once had installed photographic software
from a particular camera brand name (it came with a Nikon camera, if my
memory serves me right) which created similar Libraries but where you
could work with or delete the copy in the library WITHOUT affecting the
original one bit.

Actually you can. Sort of.

Folders at the top level of a library folder can be removed from the
list. Right click the folder in the left (navigation) pane and look for
"Remove location from library". But the navigation is weird. More than
weird :-(

Here's a fake screen shot of Windows Explorer and some remarks:

Let's say you have this in the left (navigation) pane:

Libraries
..
..
....Music
.......My Music
..........Classical
..........Folk
..........Jazz
..
..
..

In the left pane, if you left click on Libraries, you see the top
folders, including music, in the right pane.

If you left click on Music on the left or double click on it on the
right, you see Classical, Folk, and Jazz on the right, but you *don't*
see My Music. You can also expand My Music on the left, so it looks like
my picture.

You can't seem to see My Music in the right [pane.

To remove it, you must right click on it in the left pane and select
Remove this location from library.

You can't do that to any of the subfolders (below the My Music level in
my example) or files.

There are other navigation oddities, where you think a folder or file is
highlighted, then you delete it, and something else which was (I think)
also highlighted gets deleted. I'm not sure if this happens only in
libraries, only in real folders, or both - it's rather confusing.

I keep libraries enabled, since some file-open dialogs seem to use them,
but otherwise I avoid them like the plague. They are too confusing,
especially when I'm in a hurry or otherwise rattled. And I (try to)
always read the dialog box before I delete anything - especially when I
am using shift-delete.

To all of which I say, Oy weh!

 

[Char Jackson]

The worst culprit is Windows Media Player. It jumps in, scans every nook
and cranny it can find on any available network, and hangs on with the
tenacity of a Viking.
It downloads all kinds of pictures and stuff for its use, and you end up
with the ability to examine your MP3s sorted into almost any category
order you could wish for.

I've never had WMP do anything like that, but that's because I don't
let it. I only use WMP as a secondary video player, behind my first
choice of Media Player Classic - Home Cinema. Music gets played in
Winamp, of course.