Legitimising dodgy copy of W7 Ultimate

[Philip Herlihy]

I'd always suspected that my customer's PC with inexpensive hardware but
installed with W7 Ultimate would turn out to have a dodgy copy of
Windows. This was confirmed when I had to replace the hard disk, and it
wouldn't activate.

I know he can buy a license direct from Microsoft at some expense, or he
may be able to put pressure on the original vendor, but I'd like to know
what other approaches might be relied upon to work. He could use W7 HP
(Pro preferred by me so I can use Remote Desktop!) but I have my doubts
that simply buying a retail (updgrade) or OEM license will work with the
existing Ultimate installation. We'd like to legitimise the machine
without having to reinstall Windows and all the applications on the box.

Any advice? I've no intention of using any further "cracks" or other
illegal options.

 

[Desk Rabbit]

I'd always suspected that my customer's PC with inexpensive hardware but
installed with W7 Ultimate would turn out to have a dodgy copy of
Windows. This was confirmed when I had to replace the hard disk, and it
wouldn't activate.

I know he can buy a license direct from Microsoft at some expense, or he
may be able to put pressure on the original vendor, but I'd like to know
what other approaches might be relied upon to work. He could use W7 HP
(Pro preferred by me so I can use Remote Desktop!) but I have my doubts
that simply buying a retail (updgrade) or OEM license will work with the
existing Ultimate installation. We'd like to legitimise the machine
without having to reinstall Windows and all the applications on the box.

Any advice? I've no intention of using any further "cracks" or other
illegal options.

Two options really:

1. Buy the license from Microsoft
2. Buy a retail version

You can't supply an OEM version unless you are providing a new PC. If
the original version is dodgy, there could be malware on there so
personally I'd go down the route of a wipe and re-install from a retail
version. I'd also suggest the client contacts the original vendor and
make them aware of the issue and see if they want to make the situation
right by providing the correct license and media or are willing to cover
your costs.

And report them to Microsoft piracy department.

 

[Philip Herlihy]

Two options really:

1. Buy the license from Microsoft
2. Buy a retail version

You can't supply an OEM version unless you are providing a new PC. If
the original version is dodgy, there could be malware on there so
personally I'd go down the route of a wipe and re-install from a retail
version. I'd also suggest the client contacts the original vendor and
make them aware of the issue and see if they want to make the situation
right by providing the correct license and media or are willing to cover
your costs.

And report them to Microsoft piracy department.

Thanks. I understand the original supplier is no longer trading (at
least not from the original premises). Want to avoid a re-install - the
machine seems fine otherwise.

 

[charlie]

That's not exactly true.
You can buy OEM versions at legitimate retail, at least in the US.
Naturally, the OEM version "locks" to a given computer, and cannot
normally or easily be transferred to another, except under limited sets
of circumstances.

It's also worthy of note that there are differences between a generic
OEM version and the OEM version used on a computer from a major Mfr.
(I'm talking about the activation process, not the added junk.)

I'm actually surprised that Microsoft hasn't done some things with the
windows keys that it might have.

One thing that they did do that can and has caused problems with win 8
involves the use of an "added feature" key (Win Media Center as an
example). Use of such a key can render the original full key unusable
without a call to activation, and you may not be able to reinstall with
just the added feature key or the original win 8 key.

 

[Desk Rabbit]

That's not exactly true.
You can buy OEM versions at legitimate retail, at least in the US.
Naturally, the OEM version "locks" to a given computer, and cannot
normally or easily be transferred to another, except under limited sets
of circumstances.

Common misconception. Sure you can buy it at many retail outlets but the
license only allows you to install it on a new machine that you are
making and selling - You are the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM).

I do wish Microsoft would crack down on this, it's a PITA for the small
system builder who tries to be legit and buy through the channel.

 

[Ken Blake]

Common misconception. Sure you can buy it at many retail outlets but the
license only allows you to install it on a new machine that you are
making and selling - You are the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM).

Sorry, but that's not correct. There is nothing in the EULA about
either making or selling.

 

[Ghostrider]

On 3/18/2013 2:34 AM, Desk Rabbit wrote:

Common misconception. Sure you can buy it at many retail outlets but the
license only allows you to install it on a new machine that you are
making and selling - You are the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM).

I do wish Microsoft would crack down on this, it's a PITA for the small
system builder who tries to be legit and buy through the channel.

That was the way it was, 20-25 years ago. OEM builders and upgraders
got their MS-DOS and Windows OS's direct from the MS rep or distributor.
In only required having a reseller's license. However, we were also
building UNIX boxes and since OEM machines had to be sold with an OS,
there were surplus MS-DOS and Windows diskettes. Naturally, we sold
them to hobbyists and DIY'ers at reduced prices. Obviously, MS had to
get directly involved and this is how OEM versions got sold through
retail outlets...with the condition that they are bought along with
some hardware, e.g., mouse, video card, memory chip, etc.

GR

 

[Ghostrider]

Sorry, but that's not correct. There is nothing in the EULA about
either making or selling.

I think you are correct on this point about the selling. But there has
been considerable confusion over the wording over the terms related to
"building" that has gotten the ire of especially the home-builders. At
one time, in the mid-1990's, OEM release was interpreted to mean that
MS was not responsible for providing technical support and that was OK
with many hobbyists.

A few years later, "OEM" got linked with the "Systems Builders" channel
and implied that OEM products could only be purchased and released by
commercial builders as part of a computer system. To make matters even
worse, MS packaged the OEM versions so that they could only be bought in
bundles, making them costly for the hobbyist or DIY'er. MS backed off
pretty quickly. Subsequently, some of the wholesale dealers broke up
the bundles and sold individual units on their retail side.

What's next? How about dumb work stations subscribing to applications
in the MS Cloud? Didn't IBM conceive of that idea in the 1970's except
replace "mainframe" for "cloud"?

GR

 

[Desk Rabbit]

Sorry, but that's not correct. There is nothing in the EULA about
either making or selling.

http://winsupersite.com/windows-7/no-oem-you-windows-7-oem-packaging-not-individuals

And

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/is-it-ok-to-use-oem-windows-on-your-own-pc-dont-ask-microsoft/1561

 

[Desk Rabbit]

On 3/18/2013 2:34 AM, Desk Rabbit wrote:



That was the way it was, 20-25 years ago. OEM builders and upgraders
got their MS-DOS and Windows OS's direct from the MS rep or distributor.
In only required having a reseller's license. However, we were also
building UNIX boxes and since OEM machines had to be sold with an OS,
there were surplus MS-DOS and Windows diskettes. Naturally, we sold
them to hobbyists and DIY'ers at reduced prices. Obviously, MS had to
get directly involved and this is how OEM versions got sold through
retail outlets...with the condition that they are bought along with
some hardware, e.g., mouse, video card, memory chip, etc.

GR

The OEM license has changed over the years but the fundamental rule
still applies, it's for system builders, in other words for companies
that build PCs to sell on to their customers. I for one would not want
to test or challenge this accepted practice in a court of law, would you?

 

[Ken Blake]

http://winsupersite.com/windows-7/no-oem-you-windows-7-oem-packaging-not-individuals

And

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/is-it-ok-to-use-oem-windows-on-your-own-pc-dont-ask-microsoft/1561

OK, quotes from two reputable people. But still, neither is a quote
from the EULA itself. Show me a quote from the EULA that says what you
said, and I'll believe it. Otherwise I won't.

 

[Ghostrider]

The OEM license has changed over the years but the fundamental rule
still applies, it's for system builders, in other words for companies
that build PCs to sell on to their customers. I for one would not want
to test or challenge this accepted practice in a court of law, would you?

And neither would Microsoft and for very good reason...Microsoft could
lose in court, resulting in a unraveling of the Windows-Intel monopoly.
Microsoft has always feared that an adverse court decision would force
it to sell its products, Windows in particular, to all system builders
at market prices, alongside other competing operating systems instead
of at extreme, volume discount prices.

Microsoft viewed this threat of a suit by hobbyists that it included
them, the home-builder, as a "System Builder". Microsoft feared that
there would be a grass-roots movement of both small OEM's (the "local"
computer store builder) and hobbyists to non-MS apps and even worse, a
migration to Linux. Microsoft did not forget that the success of its
MS-DOS over IBM's PC-DOS was achieved on the backs of the PC-Compatible
builders (e.g., Compaq, HP, the "locals", etc.) and home builders, to
whom IBM was unwilling to sell its PC-DOS in the 1980's.


GR

 

[charlie]

OK, quotes from two reputable people. But still, neither is a quote
from the EULA itself. Show me a quote from the EULA that says what you
said, and I'll believe it. Otherwise I won't.

What I can say is that with a win 7 pro retail image, before the retail
key is used, you can use a win 7 pro generic OEM key for validation of
the install.

I'll also say that "certain" motherboards have mfrs id's stored in the
BIOS. These ID's allow the install of "branded" OEM versions, which are
sometimes supplied without an individual key.
This seems to occur more often when the same MBD version (possibly with
minor variants) is sold to a high volume P/C OEM, and the MBD is
available as a replacement as well as at retail and "white box" versions.

 

[Desk Rabbit]

http://winsupersite.com/windows-7/no-oem-you-windows-7-oem-packaging-not-individuals


And

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/is-it-ok-to-use-oem-windows-on-your-own-pc-dont-ask-microsoft/1561

OK try this
http://oem.microsoft.com/public/sblicense/2008_sb_licenses/fy08_sb_license_english.pdf

Pertinent parts:-
b. “Distribution” and “distribute” mean the point in time when a
Customer System leaves your control.

Authorized Distribution and Acceptance. To distribute the Software or
Hardware in this Pack, you must be a System Builder
and accept this license. “System Builder” means an original equipment
manufacturer, an assembler, a refurbisher, or a software
pre-installer that sells the Customer System(s) to a third party

Limited License. If you comply with the terms of this license, Microsoft
grants you a limited license to distribute the Software or
Hardware

-------------------------------

So in simple terms, the OEM license which you agree to when you open the
pack says that you are allowed to distribute the software with a PC you
are making to sell.

If you are looking for wording that says you are not allowed to use it
yourself, that is not there but as the license limits you to
distribution, self build and own use is therefore prohibited.

 

[Ken Springer]

OK try this
http://oem.microsoft.com/public/sblicense/2008_sb_licenses/fy08_sb_license_english.pdf

Pertinent parts:-
b. “Distribution” and “distribute” mean the point in time when a
Customer System leaves your control.

Authorized Distribution and Acceptance. To distribute the Software or
Hardware in this Pack, you must be a System Builder
and accept this license. “System Builder” means an original equipment
manufacturer, an assembler, a refurbisher, or a software
pre-installer that sells the Customer System(s) to a third party

Limited License. If you comply with the terms of this license, Microsoft
grants you a limited license to distribute the Software or
Hardware

-------------------------------

So in simple terms, the OEM license which you agree to when you open the
pack says that you are allowed to distribute the software with a PC you
are making to sell.

If you are looking for wording that says you are not allowed to use it
yourself, that is not there but as the license limits you to
distribution, self build and own use is therefore prohibited.

So, just to "stir the pot", here... <grin>

As a reseller, you have your business and personal information
completely separated.

You build a computer and sell it to yourself, complete with paper trail,
including writing a personal check to the business account. Then,
either sell or donate the computer back to the business, with paper trail.

Does that become technically legal?

As I said, just stirring the pot! LOL





--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.3
Firefox 20.0
Thunderbird 17.0.5
LibreOffice 4.0.1.2

 

[Wolf K]

I see no specific prohibition to self-build and own use. As written, if
you don't "distribute" the system, the OEM licence doesn't apply to you.
It applies only to "distributors", ie, people who make or repair systems
for sale to other people. It limits "distribution" of the OEM version to
those people. MS offers them reduced price versions of the OS. Note that
the licence refers to "Software or Hardware", ie, does not limit
distribution to installed copies of the OS.

FWIW, I upgraded from XP to W7 with an OEM version. The W7 copy came
with its own activation code. The later upgrade to W8 proceeded without
a hitch. The W7 activation code now applies to it.

So, just to "stir the pot", here... <grin>

As a reseller, you have your business and personal information
completely separated.

You build a computer and sell it to yourself, complete with paper trail,
including writing a personal check to the business account. Then,
either sell or donate the computer back to the business, with paper trail.

Does that become technically legal?

As I said, just stirring the pot! LOL

Cute.

 

[Ken Springer]

Cute.

I just couldn't resist the opportunity... <grin>


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.3
Firefox 20.0
Thunderbird 17.0.5
LibreOffice 4.0.1.2